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daba
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utterly Heinous nightmare
#2895870 - 07/16/04 01:42 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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This morning, I woke up at 11:00 AM, and I had a midterm exam review at noon. I figured I could catch some more Zzz's before I went to class. In this one hour time period I had one of the most unnerving and realistic dreams of my life. [start dream] I find myself in some murderous rampage with my Beretta. I'm a neighborhood with a bunch of Asian people, and for some reason I start shooting at one particular Asian guy. I'm not sure if I have any animosity towards him. Anyways I end up killing him and shoot his girlfriend dead too. Then, there are these kids, must be under 14 years of age, with one young kid driving a red pickup truck away. They are trying to escape. I take my gun and keep shooting at the driver and as they just about manage to escape I shoot the driver in the head. I run to catch up with the pickup and I realize what I have done. I'm considering shooting myself at this point. Then I see the kids, and I'm also considering shooting them but I don't. I do not want any witnesses, and I figure if I'm going to kill myself might as well bring some others down with me. It doesn't matter after you're dead, right? I don't have the heart to do it though. So I walk away and see this middle aged lady (all the people in my dream were Chinese by the way) and I'm about to shoot her, and she's very frightened, but instead I tell her: tell me about god. She nervously sits down and says something about god and how he loves me but I say, not good enough. By this time I'm wishing I hadn't killed all those people. I'm thinking about shooting myself again. However, I have immediate thoughts of death, and the actual happenings of a bullet in one's head. I think that if I lodge a bullet in my head, I would become the equivalent of a vegetable. Capable of thinking and desiring, but incapable of expressing my thoughts. It reminds me of what Abe Lincoln may have gone through in his "final hours." I wish I never woke up that morning. [end dream] I wake up at noon and my heart is beating fast. An inexplicable emotional catharsis comes over me. I am so glad that my dream was not reality (although during my dream I was almost certain it was). I decide not to go to class that morning. Please keep in mind that I am also Chinese, and I have no animosity towards my own race. I believe that this may have been me in a past life, or in some parallel universe or dimension. Only, in that zone, I had the blind courage to commit such a malicious deed for whatever reason. In this world, I am not. I think I know why I had such a horrible dream. It was because I missed my midterm review class, and the feelings of loss and hopelessness were paralleled and amplified in my dream. Please, share your thoughts.
Edited by daba (07/16/04 10:52 AM)
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muse_sick
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Re: utterly Heinous lucid nightmare [Re: daba]
#2895884 - 07/16/04 01:51 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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damn that's intense the most interesting part was the old lady who you asked to tell you about god did you shoot her? or no? that probably has some kind of subconcious meaning that i can't figure out at four o clock in the morning
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ZenGecko
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Re: utterly Heinous lucid nightmare [Re: daba]
#2896092 - 07/16/04 04:58 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Um where was the lucid part? generally in a lucid dream u have to atleast be aware that your actually dreaming if not actually able to take control of the dream to some degree.
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JacquesCousteau
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Re: utterly Heinous lucid nightmare [Re: ZenGecko]
#2896355 - 07/16/04 08:51 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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When it comes to dreams, I find it's very common for people to confuse lucidity and extreme realism.. ironically, they are polar opposites.
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daba
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Maybe I used the word incorrectly. I'll edit that.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: daba]
#2896725 - 07/16/04 11:23 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dreams are often just emotional garbage. I've had dreams about killing people before...so what?
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daba
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2898160 - 07/16/04 07:21 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: Dreams are often just emotional garbage. I've had dreams about killing people before...so what?
So what for you, big deal for me.
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MAGnum
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: daba]
#2898232 - 07/16/04 07:57 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dreams are not just garbage, they have meaning. Daba, you are going to have to think deeply to yourself on what all this symbolism means to your own sub conscious.
I think in this dream, you killing people who are like you was your inner angry self looking to destroy the parts of yourself you are sensitive to. Those hienous images were probably rooted in Rambo or various television scenes of war against Asians that may have burned an impression of sensitivity toward the scene within you. Stories of women and children being unjustly destroyed are swimming in your head because you relate to thier helplessness. Basically, you killing those who you share a kinship with; they are at your mercy. And then when you see the most helpless scene of little girls, you feel horrible. Your rage against the self is portrayed here. Regrets of actions you can't take back.
When the lady told you God loved you, you didn't accept it because the God inside of you isn't always love. In fact, in your world God seems to hate and love at the same time causing regret. What you see is everything not framed with Love and love alone because these malicious, cold blooded, unloving realities exsist within you. People have great desires to snuff out thier own existance within themselves and can be completely unaware of it. The bullets that killed those people really were in your head because you were shooting them at yourself.
I think that's it. Does that help at all?
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Dreamer987
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: MAGnum]
#2898416 - 07/16/04 09:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its not a big deal, i dream of killing folks all the time. Sometimes i do it when i'm lucid because i know i'm not really hurting anyone, sometimes not. While fucked up dreams like this sometimes alarm me upon waking, i don't let them bother me because they are just subconcious plays. They all have some deeper meaning, although trying to interperet them isn't all that easy. Especially trying to interperet dreams which arent your own.
try to practice dream recall. Record your dreams every night. Soon you can develop lucid dreaming techniques. I recomend Lucid Dreaming in 30 days. It has lots of great tecniques, and you really can master your dreams within a matter of weeks. when your lucid you'll be to busy flying around, banging chicks, and shrooming to wana kill people.
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daba
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: MAGnum]
#2898627 - 07/16/04 11:18 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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MAGnum:
Thanks for your input. Although there may be underlying, deep meanings of this dream, I think the majority was rooted in the fact that I missed a very important exam review. The impact was simply aggrandized in the dream.
Considering the television influence you mentioned, I have not watched TV in a year, going on two.
Speaking of God, I am atheist. I do not have any resentment for other's God's or omniscent figures. Nonetheless, the thought of a God is very possible. Perhaps it is an unanswered question in my mind (isn't it in everyones?).
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.
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Zero7a1
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: daba]
#2898801 - 07/17/04 12:19 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Maybe internally on the deepest level you struggle with the question of god and or repercussions, on the bottom you feel that god or the universe or whatever you believe has no redemption... and as such you feel no need to keep yourself from doing such a thing.
maybe this has to do with the fact that your asian family or identifier group places such a pressure on you, that you somehow knew in your dream that you were late... but you didnt care, because you have lost kinship with your family or those that are close... you take the anger out as skipping your class... heh, who knows, very itneresting experience i might say so myself .
-------------------- What?
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: daba]
#2898936 - 07/17/04 01:12 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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O.K. your dream was "different". Does that make you feel special? Everyone has B.S. dreams about stupid stuff like this...worry about the big dream...your life, and don't sweat the undecipherable signifigance of the small one.
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Source
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: daba]
#2899077 - 07/17/04 02:21 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Modern psychology is based on the analysis of dreams. I do not believe that the likes of Frued and Jung would waste thier lives studying something meaningless.
There IS meaning, but it isn't a meaning that can be spelled out as from a book. The message of dreams is much more subtle than that. The deciphering of dreams requires a good deal of a certain attribute that, over the course of thousands of years of disuse, has nearly become completely vistigual - our intuition. And the intuition that counts most in the deciphering of a dream is the dreamer's.
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Source]
#2900052 - 07/17/04 03:07 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Freud and Jung have been basically discredited for years. Their main contributions is that they were pioneers. Freud devloped his ideas abotu the psyche by studying neuroitic upper class house wives.
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: daba]
#2900085 - 07/17/04 03:15 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sell your Beretta.
I have known several relatively stable gun-owners who never intended to use them, finding themselves using them, not in a life-crisis situation, but in a moment of emotional angst followed by a lifetime of remorse.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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deafpanda
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2900101 - 07/17/04 03:19 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's true, Freud's theories had absolutely no basis in reality. They even came to him in a dream!
If you read up on it, it's complete shit, the lot of it. For example, apparently every child wants to have sex with their opposite-sex parent, and wants to kill their same-sex parent, until this complex is resolved through identifying with their same-sex parent.
It's ludicrous! The worst thing is that psychotherapists are far more numerous today than they were in Freud's day. The rate of remission for schizophrenics given psychotherapy is worse than those not given any therapy at all.
Whether dreams have significance, I don't know, but I DO know that shrinks can't tell you anything useful.
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: deafpanda]
#2900113 - 07/17/04 03:24 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you read up on it, it's complete shit, the lot of it. For example, apparently every child wants to have sex with their opposite-sex parent, and wants to kill their same-sex parent, until this complex is resolved through identifying with their same-sex parent. Well, I was sent to juvi-hall when my Dad died mysteriously and my mom was quite the looker...
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2900129 - 07/17/04 03:27 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Freud and Jung have been basically discredited for years. Their main contributions is that they were pioneers.
Freud's real contribution was that of using cocaine as a cure-all for malaise and depression.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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BlueCoyote
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2900453 - 07/17/04 05:09 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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To discredit Freud, does not mean to discredit dreams and their actual meaning to the dreamer and their present life.
daba: intense dream On the one side seems to be some clash of cultures, love (girlfriend), education-pressure (kids shoten, driving trucks ), on the other side god and confidence ('wise woman', suicide). Interesting mixture, which only you are totally capable of interpreting the right way. Yes, the exam-review could play a major role. But there surely are some minor supporting roles, too. I love riddling about dreams
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: BlueCoyote]
#2900761 - 07/17/04 08:06 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dreams can have meanings...they can even be visions...but to discuss them in this fashion to receive an interpretation is ridiculous. When they have meaning it is so utterly subjective as to be indecipherable by all but the dreamer. Often they are just emotional residue. Dreams of violence are quite natural as we all have deep violent tendancies as part of being human.
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Source
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: deafpanda]
#2901179 - 07/17/04 10:45 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dreams are a window into your soul. Frued and Jung were in-tune enough to know that, that's why they studied the soul via the dream. Sure, Frued's conclusions were absurd, but that is not what is ulltimately important. What is important is that Frued considered dreams imprtant enough TO study! Jung was a prodigy of Frued, and he ulltimately became the superior of Frued. Frued was necessary in order to convince Jung that dreams were important enough to study, but he turned out to be better suited in actually understanding what dreams really are. And thus, the pupil became the master. Jung saw deeper into the soul through dreams and realized that underneath the base animal instincs that come through in the dreams was a deeper yearning for reconciliation with the true self. These yearnings are expressed through certain themes which are repeated with variations in the details. These themes are shared by all mankind as evidenced by the similar myths found throught the world (knowledge of which was made possibile by the work of Joseph Campbell). Or at least that is my interpretation of thier work based on what little information I actually know about them. Someone who knows differently may help me alter my view upon them if I am wrong. I think this is important.
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
Edited by Source (07/17/04 10:53 PM)
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Source]
#2901200 - 07/17/04 10:52 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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What you just said explained nothing, but told only a little Psych history. Generalizations such as "Dreams are a window into your soul" say nothing. I am not trying to be an ass but what light does that shed on the dream discussed?
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Source
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2901218 - 07/17/04 11:00 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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There were generally two types of responses to Daba's dream.
1. Dreams are meaningless and should basically be ignored.
2. Dreams DO have meaning because they are a glimpse of a deeper part of you.
I am in the latter category, trying to argue my case that dreams SHOULD be considered important. My reason for doing this is in order to convince DABA that there may be something more important in this dream than just residual motions.
There was nothing 'General' about my statement "Dreams are a window into your soul". I was being very specific and literal. I mean exactly what I say. Dreams ARE a window into you 'soul'.
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Source]
#2901227 - 07/17/04 11:05 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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That remark has still not shed any light on the meaning of his dream? Get my point?
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2901249 - 07/17/04 11:15 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Here, try this!
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2901259 - 07/17/04 11:20 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't know if that is safe to use on souls. There may be a contraindication...I prefer vinegar and newspaper to clean off bullshit from my soul window.
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Source
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2901290 - 07/17/04 11:29 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, I get your point...But who am I to shed light on the meaning of HIS dream? As I said in an earlier post, HE is the one who has to find the meaning in the dream. I am only trying to convince him that he should take this seriously enough to spend some time and introspection and find out for himself what that meaning is.
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Source]
#2901304 - 07/17/04 11:32 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, but he probably knew that already. Hoping that strangers will deliver the key to your life's mysteries without knowing you is vain and in vain.
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Source]
#2901319 - 07/17/04 11:42 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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he should take this seriously enough to spend some time and introspection and find out for himself what that meaning is.
More like "assign" meaning rather than "discover" meaning. There IS quite a difference.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Zero7a1
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2901370 - 07/18/04 12:11 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah assigning meaning is much easier to do than really discover... thats how the scientific process works... make a hypothesis...test it. ____ Heh... what a test you have sir if you want to "discover". ____ I think more than anything dreams convey an emotional message, i always have crazy ass dreams... dream about things i couldnt ever possibly describe... but it makes me think about my life i can say that... and what i discover not only comes from my dreams... but in waking thought... realizing other things about my life.
Its an experience... and life is experience...
-------------------- What?
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Zero7a1]
#2901377 - 07/18/04 12:13 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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There is ZERO evidence that there is actually something to discover in dreams.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2901442 - 07/18/04 12:33 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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IF you can pull a meaning out of it that improved your condition, then there was something to discover. Dreams and visions are important, but too subjective to be interpreted in a public forum. Evidence is also subjective in this case. I have much evidence, that is all personally subjective, that visions can impact one's life. Can I prove it? Yes, of course, by showing the change that was incurred. This evidence only is relevant to me, though.
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2901464 - 07/18/04 12:40 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Absolutely no offense intended, but what is the big deal about abusing yourself and then stopping? Using the tired, but useful, "if I hit myself in the head with a hammer and then stop" should the world celebrate my "accomplishment"? Please do not take that personally, I really don't get it.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (07/18/04 02:13 AM)
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2901498 - 07/18/04 12:56 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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This was not a matter of just stopping personal abuse, but a matter of undergoing a complete transformation of behavior, appearance, health, profesion, and attitude in a 5 year period. Maybe you are lucky, but not everyone's life is as perfect as yours. Many people need motivation and guidance that cannot be gained without the spirit. I don't expect the world to celebrate shit about me. I mean nothing to the world. My experiences are no less relevant to me, though. Early in my life I began a chain of bad decision making that was hard to break...it became habit...part of who I am. Breaking that chain required more than I felt that I was capable of...but I did it. My method, while not relevant to someone who has a sparkling, flawless life is meaningful to me as an individual. If you have never experienced such a thing count yourself lucky...to you such spiritual "crutches" are not obviously relevant. You say these sort of beliefs have inspired suicides, but in my case a suicide was prevented because I sensed hope. I did consider it many times out of pure misery. The first step a shaman takes is to heal the self...that is why this thought appeals to me...I needed healing and nobody else could help me because of the type of antisocial asshole I am. Accept that your dream and mine vary and are not relevant to each other. No offense taken, but just as my experience is not relevant to you; your experience may not be relevant to others.
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (07/18/04 01:29 AM)
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2901589 - 07/18/04 02:22 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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My experiences are no less relevant to me, though. Early in my life I began a chain of bad decision making that was hard to break...it became habit...part of who I am. Was that Satanic or from the Devil or merely a young man trying out a path and experimenting? Breaking that chain required more than I felt that I was capable of...but I did it. My method, while not relevant to someone who has a sparkling, flawless life is meaningful to me as an individual. My life is far from a sparkling example, but I don't feel anything either evil or divine behind it. If you have never experienced such a thing count yourself lucky...to you such spiritual "crutches" are not obviously relevant. I certainly have experienced the type of despair that you speak of and do not consider myself superior despite the Swami persona. Accept that your dream and mine vary and are not relevant to each other. No offense taken, but just as my experience is not relevant to you; your experience may not be relevant to others. Actually I think they are relevant. The only difference I think you under-estimate your OWN power. No deity, angel or spiritual guide need be added to the equation. Nor am I down on your self-transformation. The key word is "self". YOU did it- and without assistance!
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (07/18/04 11:09 AM)
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2902124 - 07/18/04 10:59 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sometimes our convictions and beliefs can be used to galvanize the will. A funny thing is that most descriptions of magic concern using the will to change one's every day reality. Whether the belief is true or false in the ultimate reality is irrelevant as long as the belief functions as a useful description of the world. Practical result is what matters. I will tell you that you are probably right 100% of the time on your statements...but it doesn't change the fact that religious beliefs can serve a practical function in our lives. There are many paths to the center. The literal path you take has much appeal in its sparity and clean efficency, but it never worked for me. To me the world is as you dream it.
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2902356 - 07/18/04 12:14 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Whether the belief is true or false in the ultimate reality is irrelevant as long as the belief functions as a useful description of the world.
In mathematics and engineering if
G + E + B = G + E
where
G = goal E = effort B = belief
then B can be deleted as a null value.
Let's take a physical change. Say I want to lose 20 pounds. The equation/plan might simply be: Restrict caloric intake and increase caloric usage. The specifics would depend on the time frame desired for the weight loss and the amount of calories expended/restricted.
The point being, if I took 10 atheists and 10 people of strong faith and put them trhrough the same program (adjusted for individual physiology) in some sort of "Boot Camp" where all meals and activities were controlled; then all would have similar success. The belief element is non-essential.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2903289 - 07/18/04 06:16 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is not entirely correct. I guess I should be more specific as your responses seem very well thought out. You can have the goal, but without the beleif or inspiration, as I prefer to think of it, the effort may be misdirected. If you forced the people to lose weight in your boot camp, but they were unwilling, you would have to resort to force or inspire them; one or the other. All physical changes are carried out by the individual. I don't think that any change that I have ever undergone was anything less than my own sweat and blood. The inspiration is where the spirit comes in. There is no angel standing there helping me I know. The inspiration, though, can come from beyond the self. This is where God or the spirit comes in. Without inspiration the effort will never be properly made to acheive the goal. Most efforts are self inspired, but sometimes when the fear of one's emminant demise is not enough to inspire or empower us we look to a higher power for the inspiration. I have been in a situation where I was killing myself, but even with the intense fear of my eventual(within a few years) untimely death hanging over me I could not find the motivation and apathy set in. When I looked to the spirit for help I became inspired and I knew how to react to save myself. Musicians and artists are often inspired to create works by spiritual motives, it is very common in life, and it is a true power. This same power can be used to stay the path and make other improvements to the self as well.
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2903316 - 07/18/04 06:22 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are you saying i am the evidence? or are you saying 0 ?
-------------------- What?
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2903458 - 07/18/04 07:19 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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You keep coming back to yourself which is fine, but avoids the question. To lose weight calories intake/outtake MUST be accounted for. This is mandatory. The spirit is NOT necessary. If an atheist can do what you did, then bringing in some X-factor is just noise. You could just as well add any other noise factor and say you lost weight because food was served on pink dishes or because you ate facing south or whatever...
It sounds as if you had previously adopted a belief system in your unworthiness and then shifted your mental state. This is a psychological change requiring no supreme being.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2903507 - 07/18/04 07:38 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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You are wrong. When dealing with humans motivation MUST be taken into account. Intake/outtake are important in dieting, but without the motivation nothing will get done. Adopting a beleif system that changes your mental state to a state allowing for positive change is a clear demonstration of the system's worth. Now one can argue about whether the inspiration came from without or within, but I see the within as containing the without. You can say I am wrong and that is fine. There is no proof either way. Practical result is the test for the validity of a beleif system. To you this sounds illogical, I know, but many people besides myself will swear to it as being practical and valid. To say that because something cannot be empirically measured it must be false is flawed as the opposite could just as well be true.
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (07/18/04 08:00 PM)
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zee_werp
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: daba]
#2903587 - 07/18/04 08:07 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Just a personal addition to this post I found kind of interesting...I read this post last night before I went to bed. While asleep I was having some quite interesting dreams as usual. Before I knew it I found myself in the thick of a tropical jungle, with a small team of other people. We had about 3 guns each - a machine gun, sniper rifle, and pistol. There was extremely thick fog. I asked one of the other people where I was and they said it was the Veitnam war. Every few minutes I would see some movement in the distance through the fog and we would shoot at it. There were constantly small groups of veitnamese soldiers jumping out at us, but somehow I didn't get shot. I killed a lot of veitnamese soldiers. I then came upon a clearing where there was a lot of people, like a base camp or something. Just as I got there it was sabotaged by a huge amount of veitnamese. I knew this was it, we were all fucked. Me and this female soldier decided to have sex for the hell of it before we died. I was gonna fuck her on top of a pinball machine but then she made me go buy some condoms from the condom vending machine. We fucked and somehow we didn't get killed when we stopped there was piles of dead bodies everywhere. When I woke up I thought of this post straight away and I thought it was kinda strange.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: zee_werp]
#2903592 - 07/18/04 08:09 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Condoms!!! Come on, man, your lives were in danger ...no time for that.
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zee_werp
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2903618 - 07/18/04 08:24 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I know...it didn't make any sense. Maybe she knew we were gonna survive or something. It pissed me off at the time though, haha!
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Source
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2904281 - 07/19/04 12:47 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Swami,
you said,
"G + E + B = G + E
where
G = goal E = effort B = belief
then B can be deleted as a null value."
But wouldn't at least on type of belief be absolutely essential - the belief that the goal is attainable?
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Source]
#2904298 - 07/19/04 12:55 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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You are in a lone sailboat that capsizes and sinks five miles out to sea. You don't believe that are in good enough condition to swim to shore and will most-likely drown, but you have no alternative. You swim and swim and make it, even with a negative belief. The action and the goal were sufficient.
You are in a lone sailboat that capsizes and sinks five miles out to sea. You are not in very good physical condition to swim to shore, but you have tremendous faith that God will give you the strength. You swim and swim, but the waves and tides take their toll on your energy and your flabby muscles cramp and you drown. The belief gave you no special ability.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2904317 - 07/19/04 01:05 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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"even with a negative belief"
In a survival situation one must maintain a positive mental attitude or the chances of your survival have lessened. Faith can inspire that positive mental attitude. Ask any outdoor survival nut about that one and you will see I am correct.
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2904347 - 07/19/04 01:15 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Faith in one's abilities is quite different than faith in some outside mystical agent.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2904363 - 07/19/04 01:21 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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That is entirely dependant on the individual. Some people would say "Please God get me out of this one and I'll be a good boy from now on." This thought may galvanize their will and cause them to redouble their efforts. Just because the action has a psychological explanation does not mean that the spirit is any less valid. I beleive that the beyond is within.
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (07/19/04 01:31 AM)
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OOISI
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2904559 - 07/19/04 04:35 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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knowing that a mystical agent was the cause of your "being" and having absolute faith in it is much diiferent
also knowing it gave you the ability to assist youself is much different
-------------------- Subaeruginosa Guide Bless the Lord, O my soul O my soul Worship His holy name.
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deafpanda
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Source]
#2904616 - 07/19/04 06:14 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree, but the belief that the goal was attainable is implicit in the fact that you are making the effort to acheive it, that is
(Given G + E), B
Given that you know the goal and are making an effort, you believe that the goal is acheivable. I think the belief being debated is belief that is not directly related to the goal.
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Source
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2905290 - 07/19/04 11:39 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Suppose you capsized in the middle of the atlantic rather than '5 miles from shore'. You know there is absolutely no possibility of swimming to shore. I really don't think anyone would even try...rather they would abandon that plan and put thier energy in treading water in the hopes that someone may pass by.
What was that myth, about the guy who was condemned to rolling a boulder to the top of a hill only to have it roll back down again everytime? The first time you heard it, didn't you ask yourself, "why does he bother?"
On the other hand, from an enlightened perspective, there is the possibility of acting without clinging to the results (i.e. swimming for the sake of swimming without clinging to the possible result of actually reaching shore). This is the kind of attitude encouraged in the Bhagavad Gita. And yet in this kind of attitude, I suspect that faith is still required, even if it is the faith that there are no goals to reach.
-------------------- What you're searching for is what's searching.
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: deafpanda]
#2905366 - 07/19/04 12:18 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree, but the belief that the goal was attainable is implicit in the fact that you are making the effort to acheive.
The survival instinct does not require any belief. It is ingrained for us to postpone death as long as possible. The people who jumped from the 9/11 towers bought another 10 seconds of life even knowing their possiblity of survivng the fall was nil.
If your car broke down in a bad part of town and you and your family were surrounded by gang-bangers who were about to kill you, you would fight like a hell-cat even though the situation was hopeless.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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BlueCoyote
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2905544 - 07/19/04 01:49 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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But 'instinct' is also a kind of believe, isn't it ? You are right, if we discuss the believes of cockroaches, as they totally fit into a kind of 'believe-system'. Even robots fit into that, as their programming is their 'believe'. Believe has not to be conscious. There has not to be morality, you know ? So the efford is direct proportional to the believe, so: B(E)*G = Result Now we lost the subject, but come closer to results...
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Swami
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: BlueCoyote]
#2905579 - 07/19/04 02:02 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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But 'instinct' is also a kind of believe, isn't it ?
No, it is a set of ingrained behaviors.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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BlueCoyote
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Re: utterly Heinous nightmare [Re: Swami]
#2906013 - 07/19/04 04:33 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't really think, there is much difference between 'believe' and 'ingrained behaviour' refering to instinct. Think for a cockroach, or a robot Isn't it like programming (and breaking it) ? Belive is only a word for instinct, which could describe the genetical behaviour, in terms of bondries, as well (if you substract the conscious-factor). What other possibilities remain to the unconscious being ?
There you can find the connection between believe and nature.
But here, we come to very metaphysical aspects...
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