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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Linux+ certification
    #2894788 - 07/15/04 10:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Are they worth a damn? Could I get a decent job with one,even though I have no college education?


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OfflineCyber
Ash
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
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Re: Linux+ certification [Re: monoamine]
    #2895045 - 07/15/04 11:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

monoamine said:
Are they worth a damn? Could I get a decent job with one,even though I have no college education?




To answer your first question, The RHCE is a prized certification. It has been shown to increase your value 14% but most Linux certifications are not like Windows Certifications. They tend to have a Lab test that weeds out those people who just memorize the correct answers. Similar to the CCIE (Cisco).

To answer your second question, Probely not. The computer market is getting better but it still has a ways to go. If all you have is a certification and no experience or education then I don't think it will help much.

I have been in both IT Management (MIS Director) and Executive Management (VP of IT Services) and the unofficial ranking when weeding out candiets has been (From most prized to least prized)

1: Experience
2: Training/Certification
3: Official Education (AS/CS, BS/CS, MS/CS, etc.)

On top of this you have people like me who are having problems finding a job in the computer field. I have 5 years MIS Director, 2 years VP of IS, 11 years of Linux admin, 15 years of Sun OS/Solaris admin experience, 15 years of Network Administration experience, an MSCE, RHCE, CCNA, and a Sun Solaris 2.x Certification.

Just a NOTE, I don't have an Official Education! This has not been the biggest hurdle. The biggest hurdle has been that companies seem to want some one that they do not have to train so they are looking for people who already know there EXACT software and do not want to talk to anyone who does not know it. :rolleyes: They have some strange lists of software as well. I have even seen listings where they want someone with 10 years Windows 2003 experience (Which was released this year) or 15 years Linux experience (Linux first release, .99 came out in 1990)

So just a Linux Cert. will not help without experience or an education to back it!

On a second note, Most companies accounting systems are on a 5 year amortization cycle. This means that any equipment purchased is on the books for 5 years before it's value hits $0 and can be replaced. In 1999/2000 everyone upgraded for the Y2K bug, meaning that the market crash and subsequent slow recovery of the tech industry is more of an accounting issue than anything else. As some may have noticed the market has begun to pick up. (4 1/2 Years after the upgrade)


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Linux+ certification [Re: monoamine]
    #2895513 - 07/16/04 01:21 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ive been in IT industry a while and i can tell you the more certifications the better. the people that hire you usually only care that you have them and not about what company you got them from


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Linux+ certification [Re: Cyber]
    #2895822 - 07/16/04 03:20 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

When I say "decent job",I just mean something that will pay the bills. I would glady take $12 an hour right now in my area.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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OfflineBarbi
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Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
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Re: Linux+ certification [Re: Cyber]
    #2896262 - 07/16/04 09:54 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

RHCE. heh.

The MCSE of the unix world. i.e. Isnt worth a shit in comparison.

If you are going to pay to get certed, get certed for a major business UNIX like AIX or Solaris. Linux is BARELY starting to become a business OS, and redcrap did a shitty job of it.

I see more jobs for SCO then I do for linux.

Note: I love linux. but reality is reality.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Linux+ certification [Re: Barbi]
    #2896289 - 07/16/04 10:19 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> If you are going to pay to get certed, get certed for a major business UNIX like AIX or Solaris.

Agree 100%... for the time being, at least... another 10 years and I will probably be singing a different tune... maybe...

Edit:

> I see more jobs for SCO then I do for linux.

I haven't played with SCO since the mid 90's, but I would take windows-ME anyday over SCO unix...


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Edited by Seuss (07/16/04 10:21 AM)


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OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
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Re: Linux+ certification [Re: Seuss]
    #2896323 - 07/16/04 10:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ghahahahahahaha

I almost agree,  until I flash back to installing ME..

:frown:


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OfflineCyber
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
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Re: Linux+ certification [Re: Barbi]
    #2896806 - 07/16/04 01:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
RHCE. heh.

The MCSE of the unix world. i.e. Isnt worth a shit in comparison.





I beg to differ! All the Certification Magazines list the RHCE as one of the highest rated Linux Certifications. Although you may disagree the people making the hiring decisions tend to rely on these publications to help them determan what certifications to trust. That is one of the reasons that the MCSE is regarded as a good certification to have. The content of the certification and requirements to obtain the certification are often times not known to the people in HR. Therefore they rely on what has been printed about the certification to determan if it is worth it.

Quote:


If you are going to pay to get certed, get certed for a major business UNIX like AIX or Solaris. Linux is BARELY starting to become a business OS, and redcrap did a shitty job of it.





I don't disagree that a good AIX or Solaris Certification is worth having, but the question was over linux certification. As to your statement about Linux "BARELY starting to become a business OS" It is moving and moving FAST! Getting in early and positioning your self in the market, with the skills needed, is a good way to move up. While you are knocking it's business applications, I am making $75 an hour converting companies operations and servers to linux. (I should note that I picked up a 30 day contract at that rate yesterday!)

Quote:


I see more jobs for SCO then I do for linux.

Note: I love linux. but reality is reality.




I see SCO jobs listed all the time as well. Although they are looking for people to migrate them from SCO to Linux. I see very few SCO administration positions listed. As to your comment of "redcrap did a shitty job of it" The truth is that business does not care how good of a job the software manufactures/publishers do. If they did Microsoft would be out of business! They tend to care about who has the best press, The best marketing, and the best market share. Today it is RedHat tomarrow, who knows!


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Linux+ certification [Re: Cyber]
    #2896898 - 07/16/04 02:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The truth is that business does not care how good of a job the software manufactures/publishers do. If they did Microsoft would be out of business!  They tend to care about who has the best press, The best marketing, and the best market share.




Businesses care about one thing and one thing only... profit.  Linux has a leg up here because it is free... but Linux also has a lot of risks associated with it (due to it's lack of maturity in the eyes of the business world)... and companies are often reluctant to take on the additional risk of lost profit for the small savings they get from running a free product.

Based on Mnd's comments, I would be very surprised if he hasn't worked in an environment where he has had to support several hundred machines... he sounds to me as if he is speaking from experiences similiar to my own.  I learned long ago that people that haven't worked in this environment typically don't understand how much more complex this is than a home or small office with a few computers networked together.

> As to your statement about Linux "BARELY starting to become a business OS" It is moving and moving FAST!

Welcome to the world of computers... everything in the computer world moves fast...

Quote:

The content of the certification and requirements to obtain the certification are often times not known to the people in HR. Therefore they rely on what has been printed about the certification to determan if it is worth it.




I have never heard of an HR department determining the qualifications for a hire... they typically take the qualifications that a manager/supervisor supplies them and find somebody to fill the position.  Just thinking about a bunch of old ladies sitting around reading the various computer magazines trying to figure out what certifications they should require for new hires in the computer services section makes me laugh... I see why you only charge $75 an hour... :grin:  (j/k)


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Linux+ certification [Re: Seuss]
    #2899346 - 07/17/04 09:58 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I've asked people on a couple message boards and real life people,like my brother in law who is a hotshot at the state department,and I've still gotten answers all over the board.

I think I'm gonna get one anyway. It can't hurt. My mother offered to pay for it because she says she feels guilty about not helping me out for college. At least I'll learn a lot in the process anyway.

I have a long way to go...is the syntax in my title even correct? (should it be "umask 066" instead?)


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (07/17/04 09:59 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
Re: Linux+ certification [Re: monoamine]
    #2899748 - 07/17/04 02:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> I think I'm gonna get one anyway. It can't hurt.

Other than the money and time spent, correct.

Your title is correct to set default perms to rwx------ on a file. The umask is one of the harder concepts for people to figure out, for whatever reason. It is a really simple concept, but you have to think backwards to understand it.


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OfflineBarbi
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Registered: 04/22/02
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Re: Linux+ certification [Re: Cyber]
    #2905776 - 07/19/04 05:26 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Maybe you need to read up on what happened to RedHat, their company, etc. The word 'bankrupt' comes to mind.

Big business (where the money is) 9 times out of 10 doesnt give a fuck about what they run as long as they have people to support it, its cost efficient, and they can PUT BLAME ON SOMEONE ELSE when it breaks.

Thats why Redhat MADE it for a while. Beacuse when shit broke, some big company could call them up and say 'you there, redhat monkey, you fix our million dollar an hour problem right now!'

And they can scapegoat it.

Anyways, back on the cert hing. It definately isnt going to HURT to have a RHCE, but your time would be spent on something more stable and marketable, like Solaris, AIX, HPUX, etc.


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

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Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Linux+ certification [Re: monoamine]
    #2906705 - 07/19/04 11:00 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

thats about what i make with overtime and it doesnt pay the bills trust me


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OfflineAhronZombi
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Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Linux+ certification [Re: monoamine]
    #2906711 - 07/19/04 11:01 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

after the crap SCO is pulling now i doubt its gonna do very good in the future. Linux is the key


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