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Offlineesin
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Dracaena Draco
    #2893368 - 07/15/04 02:45 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Also called Daemonorops Draco or Calamus Draco - Dragon Tree, Dragon?s Blood



This plant is native and endemic to the macaronesia region (Cape Verde, Azores, Madeira and Canary islands). However, it can be grown in other places.

A tincture made from this tree was used as a red dye/ink in the past. Now it's protected by the portuguese and spanish legislations because it is an endagered species. Don't know about its status in Cape Verde Islands.

This tincture is said to be a strong hallucinogen by the peoples of those islands.

It is also said that Hieronymus Bosch, painted with this supposedly active ink and experienced its effects because he would frequently take the brush to his mouth. And thus represented the Dragon's Blood tree in the famous tryptich 'The garden of Earthly Delights' (in the left panel - which supposedly represents the Paradise).



Does anyone know more about it?
Constituents, etc...?

There is one of these trees just outside my university.

Would be very nice if they contained some sort of active tryptamine or beta-carboline that could be harvested without harming the plant :wink:
Bahh, guess i'm asking too much  :crazy:...


Edited by esin (07/15/04 02:48 PM)


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InvisibleMycomancer
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: esin]
    #2893475 - 07/15/04 03:17 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

you can buy dragons blood at any herb store as a resinous incense.  never heard of it as a hallucinogen though, im sure i have some somewhere.  So is the gum resin active, and do you know what preparation methods were employed? I don't know the answers to your other questions though, worth some research, makes a nice smoky incense.

What i've found so far:
Quote:

Other drugs-A substance with mild hallucinogenic effects, called "red rock opium," "red run," and "red stuff," is smoked in Baltimore in combination with marijuana. It contains dracorhodin, a compound found in the plant Daemonorops draco ("dragon's blood"), used in varnishes and stains, as an herbal medicine, and to make incense




http://www.drugabuse.gov/DirReports/DirRep500/DirectorReport5.html


Quote:

Dragon's Blood Incense
Robert R. Steiner, MS
Published in Microgram, 30:258-63 (1997).

A substance described by submitting officers as ?raw opium? was submitted to all four of the Division of Forensic Science's laboratories for identification and analysis. The material consisted of a hard, glossy, reddish-brown, amorphous material that breaks easily into a fine powder. Gas chromatographic/mass spectral (GC/MS) analysis of the sample indicated a complex mixture containing numerous compounds of plant origin. Using the Internet, a search on one of the compounds identified as dracorhodin suggested that the material was from Daemonorops draco. A resinous secretion obtained from the ripe fruit of the plant is sold commercially as Dragon's Blood incense. An authentic sample of Dragon's Blood incense was obtained and a GC/MS analysis of the material was identical (except for minor concentration differences) to the material submitted as ?raw opium?. None of the compounds identified in the material are controlled or regulated substances. Dragon's Blood is used as an incense and in some occult rituals.




http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/forensic/sections/publicationsAndPresentations/abstracts.cfm

Quote:

RED ROCK OPIUMTHERE HAS BEEN AN EMERGENCE OF A NEW DRUG OF ABUSE CALLED OF ABUSE CALLED "RED ROCK OPIUM"OR OR "DRAGON'S BLOOD INCENSE."THE SUBSTANCE IS DESCRIBED AS REDDISH-BROWN AND CRYSTAL-LIKE IN APPERANCE. DEA TESTING REVEALED THAT THE SUBSTANCE ACTUALLY CONTAINS THE SUBSTANCE ACTUALLY CONTAINS DRACORHODIN AND NO OPIUM.DRACORHODIN IS FOUND IN THE PLANT Daemonorops draco,COMMONLY KNOWN AS "DRAGON'S BLOOD"IT IS OFTEN USED IN CHINESE MEDICINE WHERE IT IS KNOWN AS Xue Jie. USERS OF "RED ROCK OPIUM" REPORT MILD HALLUCINOGENIC ACTIVITY WHICH IS NOT AT ALL LIKE TRUE OPIUM. IS NOT AT ALL LIKE TRUE OPIUM. PHARMACOLOGICAL AND TOXICOLOGICAL PHARMACOLOGICAL AND TOXICOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF DRACORHODIN REMAIN LARGELY EFFECTS OF DRACORHODIN REMAIN LARGELY UNSTUDIED. TREATMENT OF THESE EXPOSURES UNSTUDIED. TREATMENT OF THESE EXPOSURES ARE PRIMARILY DECONTAMINATION SUCH AS ARE PRIMARILY DECONTAMINATION SUCH AS CHARCOAL AND SUPPORTIVE CARE. PLEASE CHARCOAL AND SUPPORTIVE CARE,




www.lapcc.org/newsletters/toxicum/ToxicumFall1999.PDF

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/opiates/opiates_myth2.shtml


This Bosch fellow is quite interesting:
Quote:




Hieronymus Bosch was probably born in 1453 in 's Hertogenbosch, a town in the province of North Brabant in Holland. Few details about his life, and perhaps not the most important, are known. His real name was Jeroen van Aken and he signed his works as Jheronimus Bosch, possibly with the aim of calling attention to his native place, the woods (bosch) of the duke (hertog). Descendant of a family whose chief members were painters by profession for several generations, he was registered as a painter from 1480 on. In 1481 he married a wealthy woman of his town. He probably lived most of his life in 's Hertogenbosch, where he died in 1516.

Bosch' s thematology does not differ much from that of his contemporary artists; the subjects of most of his works are religious: Heaven and Hell, saints, hermits, the Passion of Christ, sin and its punishment. His depictions of evil spirits are nothing more than a product of the Middle Age, visible evidence of the fear of witchcraft and devilry that was so common to people of that era. However, one could say that the style of the individual figures on Bosch' s paintings foretells Realism that was to come a couple of centuries later.

But what forever identifies Bosch' s works as unique is the imagination and complexity of demoniac figures. Daemons in his works are no more grotesque beastly caricatures, but monstrous hybrids of insects, reptiles, chunks of human anatomy and bits of machinery never seen before on any piece of art. By presenting everything real and human contaminated by this devilish brood, Bosch escapes from the traditional Christian belief of afterlife judgement, perhaps to imply that the price of sin is on-earth suffering.

Bosch, though living far from the centres of art and culture in a small Netherlandish town, displayed a talent that was neither provincial nor naive. His vision was serious, vast in scope and sure of itself, and never without a tinge of mocking and irony. Though unique in style and imagination, he did not leave any pupils or disciples behind, but only a few imitators who at the most may have had some personal contact with him. Therefore, he did not launch a new era in art. Yet there he stands at the frontier of the Middle Age, pointing ahead to something as yet unknown.





:rasta:,

mycomancer


--------------------



Edited by Mycomancer (07/15/04 04:17 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: esin]
    #2893815 - 07/15/04 05:32 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The so called red rock opium you see offered all over the place does not likely contain any material from the dragon tree. Yes, this is a real thing but you won't find it in any head shop. I happen to have 2 of these trees at the seedling stage. They are fast growing and in a few years I'll have a couple trees. I saw one or two of them growing in my neighborhood and have no idea where they got them.


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OfflineAneglakya
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: Stonehenge]
    #2893909 - 07/15/04 06:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

These plants are commonly found at nurseries and garden centers.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2894093 - 07/15/04 06:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

my neighbor has tons of it in his frontyard! =d~
it is very ornamental.
every year or so they thin their plants...


FH


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OfflineAneglakya
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: felixhigh]
    #2895921 - 07/16/04 04:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

As far as the claims of psychoactivity and this plant... I dont buy into it at all. Its a resin and it is actually very bad for you to consume resins.

all this "REPORT MILD HALLUCINOGENIC ACTIVITY " is complete bullshit and angers me to see this bit of misinformation so whorefully repeated. There are lots of suburbanite monkey fucks who believe they are getting high by "sprinking their opium on their weed" when in fact its Laxmidhoop or dragons blood. But I could really care less.. let them wallow in their ignorance. They refuse to beleive that its pure placebo.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2896079 - 07/16/04 06:48 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i was to say, that red rock talk was pure hogwash...


FH


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Offlineesin
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: felixhigh]
    #2896286 - 07/16/04 10:15 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

hmm thanks all!  :smile:

Oh, so this is actually that fake opium stuff that i hear all the time is being sold as O around the US...

Although people from Azores claim it is hallucinogenic, i know of no reports of people who have consumed it other than that Bosch rumour (which is a questionable report, of course)... This would either mean it had unpleasant effects, no effects at all or that it needed some sort of preparation to be active.

I asked here because it seems to have a lot of mysticism and symbology for that people. The Draco tree is even the oficial symbol of one of the Islands, Horta if i'm not mistaken...

For now i'll leave the trees alone and assume they are not hallucinogenic.
Maybe in a boring day i'll run an A/B out of some plant matter and test this drachordin stuff...


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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2896917 - 07/16/04 02:16 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I say again don't confuse dragon's blood with that fake red rock crap. They are not one and the same. They take some ordinary incense and put red dye in it. They would have to charge a lot more if they were using the real thing. I don't know if dragon's blood resin has any effects or not. A'neglakya, how do you know it's no good? Have you had real dragon's blood before? How do you know it was the real thing?


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Offlinebutterflydawn
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: esin]
    #2897043 - 07/16/04 02:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

anyway,active or not;
very nice looking tree,trippy also
:nut:  :grin:


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Offlineesin
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: Stonehenge]
    #2900775 - 07/17/04 10:13 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Stonehenge you may have a point there. The plant is endagered and wildcrafting in any of its home islands would be extremely forbidden. And i never heard of any Draco farms (which doesn't mean there aren't any, but it sure seems unlikely).

Even if it was the fake opium the fact that it is not active by smoking doesn't mean it's not active orally. However I don't want to be the guinea pig so i'm not gonna eat any of it soon...

Dawn, yes it's a very beautiful tree! :smile: Would most definitely own one if i had a garden...


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OfflineAneglakya
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: esin]
    #2904999 - 07/19/04 11:26 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

it's endangered? I've found them many times sold as ornamentals and thought they were easy to propagate... maybe its a different species? Very cool tree indeed.


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OfflineHooty
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2906668 - 07/19/04 10:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Now it's protected by the portuguese and spanish legislations because it is an endagered species.




it's endagered in at least some of it's native habitats.


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It will never come true


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: esin]
    #2916324 - 07/22/04 04:05 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

There is a portuguese investigator, Jorge Estrela, investigating the relationship between Bosch painting and hallucinogenics. I have an article which i copied from a portuguese magazine, i'll scan it for you and post it here, later :wink:.
There are many interesting issues about this man. I'll just translate a bit, i'm  not too good at it btw...
Quote:

Jorge Estrela suggests Bosch was really an alchemist, like Fraenger said, maybe he knew the secret to how obtain lisergic acid (the prime active compound of LSD), which could be obtained by the most basic technology and as Gordon Wasson's school believes, was already dominated by the ancient greeks, which used them in initiation ceremonies like 'The Eleusis Misteries', by centuries celebrated at Demeter's temple. And if the egg, central element of Bosch's symbolism, represents the Amanita Muscaria, which, before showing the red hat with white dots, resembles some kind of egg ? If so, a great amount of Bosh's paintings, and specially 'The Temptation of Saint Anthony'(Museu Nacional de Arte Antiga, Lisbon) and 'The Hay Wain'(Prado), are a kind of allusion to the power of mushrooms, deadly for the ignorant, key of knowledge for the initiated.




Also, some references from Hofmann:
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06346hof.html
Quote:


In alterations of consciousness induced by LSD I experienced directly the coldness and unpleasantness of the technical world surrounding me, and my colleagues in their white laboratory coats appeared to pursue a meaningless occupation; the apparatus and equipment had a diabolical aspect, like little monsters from the pictures of Hieronymus Bosch. Thereby an other, strange, dream-like world intruded upon me from within. The interruptions for the psychological tests, with which we sought to give such research a scientific character, were perceived as downright tormenting. I realized that one completely missed the meaning and essence of psychedelic experiences in such an external setting.





More
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/A871391
Quote:


To begin, the hospital Order of Saint Anthony are believed to have been experts in amputation, whilst meanwhile the disease called Saint Anthony's Fire is known to have been rampant during Bosch?s lifetime. The disease, now known to have been caused by a form of cereal fungus, caused limbs to go gangrene and require amputation. Moreover, it is also known that the fungus, when baked in bread dough, would have produced the hallucinogenic LSD - say no more. The strange-looking vegetable is doubtless mandrake, another narcotic, but this time a pain-reliever.





St. Anthony's Fire -- Ergotism,
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=14891
Quote:

So exotic were the visions and so steadfast was Anthony's endurance that the subject of his temptations has often been used in literature and art, notably in the paintings not only Matthias Gr?newald, as mentionned, but also of many other artists ranging from Hi?ronymus Bosch and Max Ernst.




Diverte-te, have fun :wink:

MAIA


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Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: MAIA]
    #2916675 - 07/22/04 05:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Maia, that's interesting but what does it have to do with the dragon tree?


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: Stonehenge]
    #2917129 - 07/22/04 08:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MAIA, that's interesting but what does it have to do with the dragon tree?




Well some, but my points is, this also has to due with ergot and not strictly with the dragon tree:
Quote:


To begin, the hospital Order of Saint Anthony are believed to have been experts in amputation, whilst meanwhile the disease called Saint Anthony's Fire is known to have been rampant during Bosch?s lifetime. The disease, now known to have been caused by a form of cereal fungus, caused limbs to go gangrene and require amputation. Moreover, it is also known that the fungus, when baked in bread dough, would have produced the hallucinogenic LSD - say no more. The strange-looking vegetable is doubtless mandrake, another narcotic, but this time a pain-reliever.





But this is also information requested by the esin,

Quote:

It is also said that Hieronymus Bosch, painted with this supposedly active ink and experienced its effects because he would frequently take the brush to his mouth. And thus represented the Dragon's Blood tree in the famous tryptich 'The garden of Earthly Delights' (in the left panel - which supposedly represents the Paradise).

Does anyone know more about it?




I just gave my two cents ....

MAIA


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Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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Offlineesin
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Re: Dracaena Draco [Re: MAIA]
    #2919815 - 07/23/04 11:16 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Hey MAIA!  :sun: how have you been?

Nice tidbits, thanks!

Diverte-te tb :p


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