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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno
    #2892091 - 07/15/04 10:13 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2892115 - 07/15/04 10:24 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)




I almost can't believe that. What the fuck? Speechless.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2892164 - 07/15/04 10:54 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

This is certainly not true for all service men and women, but honestly man, you know our armed forces aren't comprised of the most sophisticated, well-educated, moral individuals. There are plenty of exceptions, so don't start barking at me. But lets call a spade a spade.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2892168 - 07/15/04 10:57 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

This story seems apocryphal to me.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/05/03
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2892238 - 07/15/04 11:37 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

What a piece of shit.


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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2892278 - 07/15/04 12:00 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

OMG god redneck Peace of shit is representing us, we deserve terrorist attacks those nazi fucks, and if you think the majority of are troops arent like that your wrong. if they werent the few that did all this crazy shit wouldnt get away with it like they do. face it we are going down in history worse than nazis once this shit gets out. this makes me so angrey, but i beleive it. ive been doing allot of research lately for a project about 911/iraq war and ive uncovered allot of reports from soldiers that pretty much think that iraq is a video game. if you think this is bad youll be terrified to hear the compete for who can kill the most children with sniper rifles


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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2892286 - 07/15/04 12:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Regarding the video game thing...

I did a report in school once about video game violence. While researching I came across some interesting info. I don't have the source but if I remember correctly it said that in world war 1? maybe 2, a lot of the soldiers wouldn't fire back. they were scared shitless too. They didn't want to kill people ya know?

Afterwards the military started using some kind of conditioning on them so that they would want to kill or something like that. It relates to what you were saying. Sorry I don't have a link or anything.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2892293 - 07/15/04 12:23 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)



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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2892300 - 07/15/04 12:35 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

they hate our freedom? thats some stuck up BS you would hear from somewhere like orielly or fox news. and the people in america are just as much to blame as the government and do deserve it. we are to lazy to rise up and stop beliveing the media and funding the government with our taxes, we are the biggest hipocrits, its all our fault and we are to lazy to change it so we do deserve what we get in return. the people have way more power than they want to admit to them selves and are way to lazy to use it.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2892314 - 07/15/04 12:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2892336 - 07/15/04 01:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Come on, people, get serious. These things happen in each and every war. I'm not saying everybody does it, probably there are troops that can maintain a minimal Geneva Convention factor throughout combat, but how many of them? No-one knows. That's why I oppose war not only on contingent arguments, like lack of WMD or other official reasons, but as a matter of principle, because clean war does not exist, it is bound to be bestiality.

Think of it. What would you expect in a culture in which you start to play shoot-em-up games as soon as you can hold a joystick, where there are more guns than people? Those who like these things most go to the army, where they're encouraged to pursue their interest and get stuffed with propaganda against the 'enemy'. Do you really think it's in the interest of the army to inhibit this kind of behavior? In the interest of the occupying power as a state, probably yes, but not in the interest of the army, and it's the army that goes out there and rules the territory.

No, really, I'm amazed at your amazement, but it's an interesting first step. Try to realize every war is like that, there are no good guys, the situation breeds these kinds of crimes.


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2892342 - 07/15/04 01:39 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i soldier from norway that was in afghanistan and a good friend of mine told me same tale about american soldiers.

one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
that goes both way it seems


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2892352 - 07/15/04 01:55 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
Come on, people, get serious. These things happen in each and every war. I'm not saying everybody does it, probably there are troops that can maintain a minimal Geneva Convention factor throughout combat, but how many of them? No-one knows. That's why I oppose war not only on contingent arguments, like lack of WMD or other official reasons, but as a matter of principle, because clean war does not exist, it is bound to be bestiality.

Think of it. What would you expect in a culture in which you start to play shoot-em-up games as soon as you can hold a joystick, where there are more guns than people? Those who like these things most go to the army, where they're encouraged to pursue their interest and get stuffed with propaganda against the 'enemy'. Do you really think it's in the interest of the army to inhibit this kind of behavior? In the interest of the occupying power as a state, probably yes, but not in the interest of the army, and it's the army that goes out there and rules the territory.

No, really, I'm amazed at your amazement, but it's an interesting first step. Try to realize every war is like that, there are no good guys, the situation breeds these kinds of crimes.




I agree with you, and the entire thing saddens me. Just a few weeks ago, my 18 year old brother was bragging about how if college doesn't work out for him, he'll go to Iraq and "kill him some dirty towel-heads."

I couldn't believe it when I heard him say that. It was almost a punch in the jaw, until I remembered that my entire family thinks like that and I'm the loony minority for feeling disgusted.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2892405 - 07/15/04 02:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The last soldier I spoke with from Iraq had been getting into trouble for giving candy to the children... (he is the one that was at the checkpoint when the little girl (3 to 5 year old) ran up with an armed hand gernade)...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2892989 - 07/15/04 06:56 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

it only takes a couple bad seeds...


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlineblu3
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2893032 - 07/15/04 07:12 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

man.. The same kind of shit happened in vietnam. I remember by parents and uncles telling me they would kill civilains all the time there and it was mostly because you couldn't tell which guys were the enemies and whichs ones were the civilians because they all looked the same. My dad never went... he was a hippy but he knew people who went and came back and then would join the anti-war efforts because it was a fucking witch hunt.
I can imagine thats how it's like in Iraq. God, I'm fucking disturbed by that story. I fucking hate the war in Iraq I think it's a totally fucked up war..


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: blu3]
    #2893036 - 07/15/04 07:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

My grandfather served in korea, and nam.

Ive heard similar stories.

His were more along the lines of "non military dressed people would pull out weapons and fire on you"

Well, personally, if 'their' army stopped wearing uniforms to be sneaky, then THEY make civilians into a possibly enemy.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2893056 - 07/15/04 07:24 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The millitary is a broad sword, not a scalpal. That is how they are trained and that is why the millitary should not be doing police work. Unfortunatly there is not a civilian police force capable of the job right now.

Anyway, you should report this to your congressman.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: shriek]
    #2893088 - 07/15/04 07:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
that goes both way it seems




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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Barbi]
    #2893109 - 07/15/04 07:53 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:His were more along the lines of "non military dressed people would pull out weapons and fire on you"
Well, personally, if 'their' army stopped wearing uniforms to be sneaky, then THEY make civilians into a possibly enemy.


How dare these motherfuckers not play by the good ole war rules...! OK, their country was attacked and invaded by the largest and best equipped army in the world, in violation of each and every international law, but there are limits to cowardice, aren't there? They could at least wear uniforms when they plan some resistance action.  :rolleyes:


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2893153 - 07/15/04 08:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I hear you and this is a tough subject because I think to a certain extent they have the right to defend themselves via any means. BUT in the end they endangered all the civilians by doing that, and that displays a total disregard for their people. If them people were so motivated they could have joined the Army to protect their country. They didn't so I assume they were not to upset that Saddam would more than likely be removed.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Edited by mntlfngrs (07/15/04 08:20 PM)


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2893154 - 07/15/04 08:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

If they dont want their civilians shot at, yes.

dont be a fucking moron.

If the enemy chooses to dress civlian, then well MYTERIOUSLY the army is going to RESPOND to it, by killing them.

I'm sure since you are obviously the worlds greatest planner, leader, all-knower of warfare, you have a perfect solution to such. Please fix the world.

thank you.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Barbi]
    #2893268 - 07/15/04 09:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

that explains shooting people just for sport,when
they clearly don't pose any threat, doesn't it?

yee haw!


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2893284 - 07/15/04 09:12 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

That dude would have twisted your head off right after your fist hit him. Killers got no remorse and anything that fucks with them gets no mercy.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlineblu3
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Barbi]
    #2893308 - 07/15/04 09:22 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:


If the enemy chooses to dress civlian, then well MYTERIOUSLY the army is going to RESPOND to it, by killing them.

I seriously doubt they are chooseing to dress "civlian". I'm going to assum thats most of them at one point were Civlians who decided to form a militia of sorts probably joining up with ex. military leaders under saddam for weapons and ammo in retaliation towards the american forces read: invading their country. Maybe if they had the training and the proper funding to get uniforms I'm sure they'd wear them.

Plus, according to his story the man they killed was just making noice and he was unarmed and posed no physicial threat. and Come on, we've already seen PLENTY of evidence that the soliders in Iraq are eaither not properly supervised or not properly trained.



I'm sure since you are obviously the worlds greatest planner, leader, all-knower of warfare, you have a perfect solution to such. Please fix the world.
hm.. he's not, but he's got a point. Invading Iraq was totally againt many international laws. Bush have NO evidence of WMDs in Iraq or that they were in any ways connected to terriost attacks. Not a bit of physicial evidence, Thats why he got little to NO support from the world. Even the UN was like.. "uhh no!" Thats why the countries who did "help" only sent like 200 troops compared to the thousands we send. hah! its a fucking joke.. bush is a joke
thank you.
you are welcome




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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2893452 - 07/15/04 10:09 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard people tell stories like this here before. I wish somebody would get these fuckers on tape and get them charged with crimes.

Seriously, if you can get a recorded confession of any of these fuckers fucking do it.

Oh, and let me know if that fucker gets killed over there so I can celebrate.


--------------------
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
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InvisibleSwami
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2893508 - 07/15/04 10:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I hate to say, but this was another "prediction" that I made on here early on. I compared the Iraqi War to the Viet Nam War in that in both conflicts, we were allegedly there to protect the common people, but because "the enemy" was indistinguishable from the common people, that when in doubt, soldiers would shoot first, then ask questions later.

These "accidental" killings would harden the soldiers until it became OK to kill for almost any reason. All moral boundaries dissolve. It is then v-e-r-y easy for incidents like the My Lai Massacre and other atrocities to occur.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Swami]
    #2893526 - 07/15/04 10:32 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

with all due respect...

don't break your elbow patting yourself on the back.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2893548 - 07/15/04 10:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard similar stories before, but I also know some good people in the military. I know this one couple that's in the marines, and they're some of the nicest people I've ever met. They're shipping off to Iraq soon, even though they oppose the war and George W. Bush. It must take a lot of love for your country to fight in a war you oppose.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: afoaf]
    #2893569 - 07/15/04 10:43 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
that explains shooting people just for sport,when
they clearly don't pose any threat, doesn't it?

yee haw!




I nver said a damn thing about sport killing people.

way to try to put words in my mouth though!


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Barbi]
    #2893571 - 07/15/04 10:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:I'm sure since you are obviously the worlds greatest planner, leader, all-knower of warfare, you have a perfect solution to such. Please fix the world.


Thanks for the compliments.

The solution is to not start the problem.
Instead of fixing the world, avoid fucking it up even more than it's already fucked up.
By not starting any illegal invasion wars for reasons that cannot be said aloud, for instance.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: afoaf]
    #2893582 - 07/15/04 10:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

It is not boasting, it as about studying and understanding history. I am not proud, I am deeply saddened by the whole mess.


--------------------



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OfflineBarbi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: blu3]
    #2893594 - 07/15/04 10:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

the fact of the matter remains, no matter WHICH WAR or WHY THE WAR IS GOING ON that if the enemy picks up a different dress style, that dress style will soon be labled as 'the enemy' and probably get you SHOT for looking such.

I'm sorry common logic does not agree with some people here on why civilians die, especially in wars such as this one where guerilla tactics are used.

I'm not here to argue for the fuckstick who enjoys killing people, I never agreed with that. I merely pointed out civilians running around with guns = dead fucking civilians.


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2893596 - 07/15/04 10:52 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
Quote:

mndfreeze said:I'm sure since you are obviously the worlds greatest planner, leader, all-knower of warfare, you have a perfect solution to such. Please fix the world.


Thanks for the compliments.

The solution is to not start the problem.
Instead of fixing the world, avoid fucking it up even more than it's already fucked up.
By not starting any illegal invasion wars for reasons that cannot be said aloud, for instance.




why cant it be said out loud?

worried about they?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Barbi]
    #2893598 - 07/15/04 10:53 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I don't blame soldiers for accidentally killing civilians when it's hard to tell who the enemy is, but you have to admit the guy Fiend talked to is a major asshole.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: silversoul7]
    #2893606 - 07/15/04 10:56 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I never once stated otherwise. As far as I'm concerned he should be shot in the face, perferably by an iraqie civilian.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Barbi]
    #2893646 - 07/15/04 11:13 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

why cant it be said out loud?

worried about they?


I don't understand what you mean, you must have missed my point. It's Bush and his clique who were afraid or ashamed to tell the real reasons for their war aloud. They had to resort to weak excuses like WMD and Al-Qaeda links, which both predictably turned out to be rubbish.

Me, I've got nothing to hide, I can say anything out loud, and no "they" could worry me.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Barbi]
    #2893700 - 07/15/04 11:41 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
I never once stated otherwise. As far as I'm concerned he should be shot in the face, perferably by an iraqie civilian.




k, well, after stating:

Quote:

Well, personally, if 'their' army stopped wearing uniforms to be sneaky, then THEY make civilians into a possibly enemy.




it seemed like you were justifying the various accounts
of murder simply because the enemy doesn't wear
uniforms and neither do the civilians.

you did not make it abundantly clear that you opposed
the senseless slaughter of civilians before you made that
statement, especiallly when you take into account some
of your other 'war is war' type responses in recent months.

I didn't put any words in your mouth, that was just how I
interpreted the seeming callousness of your initial response.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineRedo
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2893864 - 07/16/04 12:54 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

He shoulda killed more


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Redo]
    #2893870 - 07/16/04 12:56 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Please tell me you're joking.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: silversoul7]
    #2893875 - 07/16/04 12:58 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

you know just as well as I do that he wasn't.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Redo]
    #2893906 - 07/16/04 01:04 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Wow.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: afoaf]
    #2893914 - 07/16/04 01:05 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Ya, but I need to make sure someone's not joking before giving out a bad rating.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: silversoul7]
    #2893952 - 07/16/04 01:12 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

it's taken you this long....


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: afoaf]
    #2893991 - 07/16/04 01:19 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Ya, I know. I'm way too nice.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: silversoul7]
    #2894016 - 07/16/04 01:26 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'm an early adopter.


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Offlineblu3
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Redo]
    #2894204 - 07/16/04 02:23 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Redo said:
He shoulda killed more





hm..
so, what you're saying here is that it's ok to murder unarmed people because they oppose your point of view.

so, for instance, if japan decides to invade america it's totally ok for them to kill you simply because you are an american voiceing your opinion.

hm.. ok?


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2894520 - 07/16/04 03:45 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Iraqi freedom stuff.


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OfflineRedo
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: blu3]
    #2894569 - 07/16/04 04:02 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

This soldier's endowment is very similar to most all of them, you may not be aware of it. This is coming from somebody who has family in the military, and somebody who wanted to be in the military. Im sure there are some people who have served here who could also say this is what the soldiers think. 'Go shoot me some Iraqi's'.

You all care too much, who knows how valid his statements were.


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Redo]
    #2894883 - 07/16/04 05:59 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Redo said:
You all care too much...




Or maybe... just maybe...
You don't care enough.

Fucktard.


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OfflineRedo
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: GernBlanston]
    #2894964 - 07/16/04 06:17 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GernBlanston said:
Or maybe... just maybe...
You don't care enough.

Fucktard.




I sure dont.


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Offlined33p
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2895539 - 07/16/04 08:29 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tasty_Smurf_House said:
Regarding the video game thing...

I did a report in school once about video game violence. While researching I came across some interesting info. I don't have the source but if I remember correctly it said that in world war 1? maybe 2, a lot of the soldiers wouldn't fire back. they were scared shitless too. They didn't want to kill people ya know?

Afterwards the military started using some kind of conditioning on them so that they would want to kill or something like that. It relates to what you were saying. Sorry I don't have a link or anything.




They originally used bullseyes for military target practice. In the war they found actually 1 out of 4 people would fire when they engaged the enemy.

After this they used human shaped targets to turn them into killing machines. It worked and by vietnam they had nearly a 100% fire rate.

And depending on the circumstances with the FOOK america guy i would of probably shot him. In that situation it would seem plausible to me that he may of had explosives strapped to him. Why else would he be running toward a tank at full speed.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Vvellum]
    #2895612 - 07/16/04 08:55 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Quote:

one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
that goes both way it seems







I wonder if anyone remembers the "Afghani Freedom Fighters" from the days of old...
back when America bankrolled them against the Russians...
now they are all terrorists


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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #2895618 - 07/16/04 08:58 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

now america secretely is still paying them to terrorise us and the world


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2895636 - 07/16/04 09:04 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

thats no secret... it's been told time and time again through major media outlets and each time it was viewed as trivial news and run a few brief seconds... sort of like hos the tabloids toss in a few short real stories of little importance to authenticate the rest of to the 'news'

many people just dont wish to see..


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OfflineBarbi
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: afoaf]
    #2896014 - 07/16/04 12:33 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I made a simple statement on one of the reasons civilians get shot. If you choose to make an assumption that I condone civilian shooting, then thats your problem. hence, putting words into my mouth.


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Offlineblu3
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Redo]
    #2896533 - 07/16/04 07:10 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Redo said:
somebody who wanted to be in the military.

you're not in the military? Could that be because you failed the physcoanalysis

You all care too much, who knows how valid his statements were.
dude, you don't care ENOUGH.
That is the problem with america no one gives a shit anymore.
"Oh look they drowned an iraqi for sport. slap him on the wrist and go on with our business" Thats how people are.
what happens when we start killing masses of them or women and children.
what happens when we start blameing them for everything wrong in this world and we start keeping them in camps and arresting them on the streets and make them wear identifying colors??
are you going to care then??






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OfflineRedo
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: blu3]
    #2896543 - 07/16/04 07:12 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)




you're not in the military? Could that be because you failed the physcoanalysis

epilepsy

dude, you don't care ENOUGH.
That is the problem with america no one gives a shit anymore.
"Oh look they drowned an iraqi for sport. slap him on the wrist and go on with our business" Thats how people are.
what happens when we start killing masses of them or women and children.
what happens when we start blameing them for everything wrong in this world and we start keeping them in camps and arresting them on the streets and make them wear identifying colors??
are you going to care then??


maybe, but its not going to happen.


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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #2896555 - 07/16/04 07:17 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I wonder if anyone remembers the "Afghani Freedom Fighters" from the days of old...

Oh lord  :laugh: Yep, those good old torturers and murderers who formed the Northern Alliance and the Taliban fighting for "freedom" and the good old american way..saving us from the peril of "communism".

Ah..gets you right there doesn't it  :grin:

When did they go from heroic freedom fighters to being torturing, raping maniacs again?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Xlea321]
    #2896581 - 07/16/04 07:24 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, it's too bad. The Soviet Union was the best thing ever, right?

It would have been awesome if they had taken over the world.


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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2897760 - 07/17/04 01:52 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I should start a communist radio station.

Red Radio. Music for the people.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2898986 - 07/17/04 10:33 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The Soviet Union was the best thing ever, right?

Not the point is it. Afghanistan had been under Russian influence for years. Just like the Americans install puppet governments throughout South America. The CIA stirring Afghanistan up and then arming fundamentalist lunatics to keep a civil war going for years and ensure the rise of the Taliban was a lot worse than the Russians simply installing another puppet government and withdrawing.

It would have been awesome if they had taken over the world.

:confused:

Who'se been telling you they were going to take over the world? They're Russians, not martians.


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Invisibleretread
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2899575 - 07/17/04 07:52 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Him: "I like shooting people." *grin*

I didn't quite understand what he meant at first, nor did I really think he was serious (plus I thought he meant shooting combatants)

Me: "How many have you shot?"

Him: "At least a hundred."

Me: "Man, that's crazy, that's a nice dent in those fuckers army for one guy!"

Him: "Hahah yeah, most of them weren't in the army though."

Me: "......." *puzzled face*

Him: "We pretty much shoot anyone out there."




This soldier wouldn't happen to be John Kerry, would it?
Quote:


WTF am I supposed to do? I don't think I've ever felt so powerless in my life. He's out there killing civilians because he thinks it's funny in the name of America. Does anyone see a major problem with that?




So you won't be voting for Kerry?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: retread]
    #2899779 - 07/17/04 09:53 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

So which is better then...

A commander in chief that used his families influence to avoid the draft, and then went AWOL while protecting the US borders from ... umm... from...
or

A commander in chief that volunteered to enter the military during the same time period, risked his life for his country (not that I agree with the conflict, but it doesn't lessen the risk he took), and received honors for his duty?

Personally, I don't care for either Kerry or Bush, but if I had to choose between the two based on military conduct... Kerry would win hands down.

Regarding the killing of innocents in Vietnam... I don't know if Kerry did or did not... but a lot of people were doing a lot of bad things during that time... war is not like a board game, people die and bad things happen... unfortunately. If you don't like it, then vote in somebody that is a pacifist.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Xlea321]
    #2899992 - 07/17/04 11:39 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Why do you have a problem with America taking over Afghanistan and installing a puppet government, even to the point of imagining one, but not the Soviet Union?


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2900213 - 07/18/04 12:45 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Probably for the same reason you [probably] hate Fidel Castro and [probably] would like to see a new Batista in his place. Excuse me if I'm wrong, pure speculation on your opinions on my part here. But please if I'm right, be kind to admit it.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: retread]
    #2900262 - 07/18/04 01:00 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

retread said:
Quote:


Him: "I like shooting people." *grin*

I didn't quite understand what he meant at first, nor did I really think he was serious (plus I thought he meant shooting combatants)

Me: "How many have you shot?"

Him: "At least a hundred."

Me: "Man, that's crazy, that's a nice dent in those fuckers army for one guy!"

Him: "Hahah yeah, most of them weren't in the army though."

Me: "......." *puzzled face*

Him: "We pretty much shoot anyone out there."




This soldier wouldn't happen to be John Kerry, would it?
Quote:


WTF am I supposed to do? I don't think I've ever felt so powerless in my life. He's out there killing civilians because he thinks it's funny in the name of America. Does anyone see a major problem with that?




So you won't be voting for Kerry?



Lame. Kerry came back from Vietnam and spoke out against what they were doing there. He didn't brag about it. He confessed it with great remorse.


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OfflineFungushead
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Redo]
    #2900440 - 07/18/04 02:01 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

And fyi any of you wanting to avoid the future draft - epilepsy will do it for you if you can actually get a doctor to diagnose you with it (I've tried to get into the army twice, and finally said screw it, got married and grew my hair out).


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2901847 - 07/18/04 04:32 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I don't like Castro, but I am against the sanctions against Cuba.

Why would anyone want another Batista in Castro's place. I would rather see a democratically elected government.

What was your point BTW?


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2902641 - 07/18/04 10:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

My point was that the situation was somewhat parallel, even if not completely. A superpower exerting its "influence" (domination, colonialism) on a very nearby and small country (US-Cuba, USSR-Afghanistan). The other superpower tries everything to get the other one in trouble in that small client state.
The difference: the US were already out of Cuba when friendly relations between Castro and the USSR started (the USSR didn't initially believe in the Cuban revolution), while the USSR was still in Afghanistan when the US started to massively flood the mujahideen and the Taliban with guns and dollars in hopes to oust the Russians.
Another difference: US influence used to be more subtle (CIA, puppet governments, etc.), while communist influence was more often military (in Afghanistan, it started "subtle" and then went military).

From your expressed viewpoints, I wildly guessed you would have been more outraged at the time by the ousting of Batista then by American subversion in communist Afghanistan.
That was my point. You may accuse your opponents of selective indignation, but most people are selectively indignant.


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Invisibleretread
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Seuss]
    #2902672 - 07/18/04 10:40 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


So which is better then...




The underlying principle that you have to remember for the rest of this issue is that the inital poster of this article was describing his revulsion at these actions. He has already stated that people that do things like this are wrong and he despises them.
Quote:


Personally, I don't care for either Kerry or Bush, but if I had to choose between the two based on military conduct... Kerry would win hands down.




If you were writing about how much you disliked people that commited wartime atrocities, then you voted for a man that admitted to doing so, you'd be a bit of a hypocrite.
Quote:


Regarding the killing of innocents in Vietnam... I don't know if Kerry did or did not... but a lot of people were doing a lot of bad things during that time... war is not like a board game, people die and bad things happen... unfortunately. If you don't like it, then vote in somebody that is a pacifist.




Do you think that this leniancy towards atrocities applies to current times? Could Kerry, if he were president during the Abu Ghraib incident, just say "People do horrible things in war, I never got in trouble for the horrific incidents that I admitted to, so these guys shouldn't either. War is hell, after all".


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Invisibleretread
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: silversoul7]
    #2902687 - 07/18/04 10:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lame. Kerry came back from Vietnam and spoke out against what they were doing there. He didn't brag about it. He confessed it with great remorse.



You think it's "lame" to connect a person who admitted to atrocities with someone who commited atrocities? That sounds more like the word "apt" would be applicable. How about we just open the prison doors to anyone who can say "Sorry", would that make you happy?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2904205 - 07/19/04 09:14 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Why do you have a problem with America taking over Afghanistan and installing a puppet government, even to the point of imagining one, but not the Soviet Union?

So why do you have a problem with the Soviet Union installing a puppet government and not the americans? My view is it would have been best for Afghanistan people if the US hadn't supported the fundamentalists and sustained a civil war for years.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Xlea321]
    #2908625 - 07/20/04 10:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
Why do you have a problem with America taking over Afghanistan and installing a puppet government, even to the point of imagining one, but not the Soviet Union?

So why do you have a problem with the Soviet Union installing a puppet government and not the americans? My view is it would have been best for Afghanistan people if the US hadn't supported the fundamentalists and sustained a civil war for years.




Sure, but whats doner is done. Should we have just walked away after doing all that shit? Or clean up the mess?


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2908690 - 07/20/04 10:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
Sure, but whats doner is done. Should we have just walked away after doing all that shit? Or clean up the mess?


It's always the same with the US. That's the exact same argument with which they're trying to involve the UN in Iraq these days.

As a person, it's sometimes easy to act without thinking, but as a nation, it takes so much preparation to act that you can't invoke the spur of the moment as an excuse afterwards.

Just DON'T INTERFERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, the lesson should be clear by now after Afghanistan, Iraq and many other messes.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2908838 - 07/20/04 11:27 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I agree. Now what do we do with the previous messes?


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2909474 - 07/21/04 02:28 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Well, maybe getting the UN involved isn't a bad idea per se, although their cleaning up record isn't exactly brilliant either. But in principle at least that would be better, and far less harmful than the US to the victims of those messes.
The first and most important condition would be for the US to evacuate all previous messes, and probably put regional peacekeeping troops under UN flag in their stead. In short: GET OUT! If oil was not the reason for invading in the first place, this shouldn't be a problem.


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OfflineRedo
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2909608 - 07/21/04 03:17 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
In short: GET OUT! If oil was not the reason for invading in the first place, this shouldn't be a problem.




..., we invaded for oil now? did i misread something?


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Redo]
    #2911525 - 07/21/04 04:57 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Once again, can you right-wingers fathom that decisions and strategies - and the world in general, for that matter - tend to hold more than one color or dimension? It seems not.

How is it so hard for you guys to understand that waging war for oil AND to establish a military foothold in a strategic region AND to make one's buddies in the oil and arms and logistic services and other relevant industries filthy rich AND still other reasons is more the rule than the exception? Effects can and do usually have multiple causes. Actions almost always have multiple reasons. Saying it was for oil does not rule out other reasons.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2911755 - 07/21/04 06:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I can't wait for a new fuel source to be made viable so that all these contries with oil can be left with no products or industry. Then we will leave and they will crumble into chaos and poverty. Warlords will rule by force and it will be business as usual. But at least we wont be blamed for it any more. Then again we probably will be blamed for leaving them with no viable source of income after making them dependant on oil revenues.

This shit is a double edged sword for them. The oil is thier main if not only income and it is the source of thier trouble. The future doesn't look bright for them no matter what happens, unless they stop relying on the selling of oil and promote other industries.

We are dependant on buying it and them on selling it. It's a cluster fuck but what are you going to do about it?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2911794 - 07/21/04 06:47 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not saying that this guy was pulling your chain, but I do find it interesting that no one seems to have considered the possibility that he was. It is not unusual at all for soldiers to exaggerate or even fabricate incidents for the purpose of appearing macho -- or just for kicks.

I've been a bartender for years and have heard just about every imaginable pickup line out there. I've heard guys I know for a fact have never served in the military pretend to be veterans while trying to hit on chicks. I've seen guys who are quite obviously too young to have served in Viet Nam pretend they did, and I've heard guys who were nothing more than filing clerks Stateside pretend they had seen combat. For some reason, a lot of folks like to say they were Navy SEALS. For an elite group, there sure seem to be a lot of ex-SEALS passing through Cabarete.

I also know many real Viet Nam vets, and some of them (not a lot, but some) do sometimes get a kick out of telling outrageous (and false) stories of the supposed atrocities they committed. Don't ask me to explain why they enjoy it -- I am no psychologist -- I just know they seem to.

Again, let me repeat that I am not dismissing out of hand this guy's comments. Maybe he did do exactly what he said he did. But maybe he's the kind of guy who gets a kick out of telling total strangers what a bad-ass stone cold macho killer he is.

pinky


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2911881 - 07/21/04 07:13 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Should we have just walked away after doing all that shit? Or clean up the mess?

Not sure what the americans have cleaned up. The Karzai government's power extends about as far as the bottom of the street in Kabul. The brutal Northern Alliance are in control of the rest of the country.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Xlea321]
    #2911900 - 07/21/04 07:21 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Seeing as how the deposition of the Taliban by an international coalition of countries was a UN-approved action and that the UN has the responsibility of arranging elections in Afghanistan, I find it more than a little amusing that so many people on this forum are calling for more UN involvement in Iraq. They've done just such a great job in Afghanistan, haven't they?

pinky


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Xlea321]
    #2911905 - 07/21/04 07:22 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
Should we have just walked away after doing all that shit? Or clean up the mess?

Not sure what the americans have cleaned up. The Karzai government's power extends about as far as the bottom of the street in Kabul. The brutal Northern Alliance are in control of the rest of the country.




So walk away then?


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Phred]
    #2912183 - 07/21/04 08:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not saying that this guy was pulling your chain, but I do find it interesting that no one seems to have considered the possibility that he was.

Got back in shroomery history to see where I "predicted" exactly this type of thing because "the enemy" and "the people to be liberated" are visually indistinguishable.

I knew many Viet Nam vets (and as a Viet Nam era vet myself, who saw no action) who got "trigger happy". Two things:

1. Once moral barriers are broken (killing), all-too-often a complete collapse of ANY ethical code ensues.

2. When in survival mode nearly all the time where the slightest hesitation or miscalculation will get you killed, one will kill at the slightest hint of a threat - either real or imagined.

In conclusion: yes, he might have been fabricating, but the story's essence is highly believable,


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The proof is in the pudding.


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