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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2897760 - 07/17/04 01:52 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I should start a communist radio station.

Red Radio. Music for the people.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2898986 - 07/17/04 10:33 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The Soviet Union was the best thing ever, right?

Not the point is it. Afghanistan had been under Russian influence for years. Just like the Americans install puppet governments throughout South America. The CIA stirring Afghanistan up and then arming fundamentalist lunatics to keep a civil war going for years and ensure the rise of the Taliban was a lot worse than the Russians simply installing another puppet government and withdrawing.

It would have been awesome if they had taken over the world.

:confused:

Who'se been telling you they were going to take over the world? They're Russians, not martians.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleretread
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: ]
    #2899575 - 07/17/04 07:52 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Him: "I like shooting people." *grin*

I didn't quite understand what he meant at first, nor did I really think he was serious (plus I thought he meant shooting combatants)

Me: "How many have you shot?"

Him: "At least a hundred."

Me: "Man, that's crazy, that's a nice dent in those fuckers army for one guy!"

Him: "Hahah yeah, most of them weren't in the army though."

Me: "......." *puzzled face*

Him: "We pretty much shoot anyone out there."




This soldier wouldn't happen to be John Kerry, would it?
Quote:


WTF am I supposed to do? I don't think I've ever felt so powerless in my life. He's out there killing civilians because he thinks it's funny in the name of America. Does anyone see a major problem with that?




So you won't be voting for Kerry?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: retread]
    #2899779 - 07/17/04 09:53 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

So which is better then...

A commander in chief that used his families influence to avoid the draft, and then went AWOL while protecting the US borders from ... umm... from...
or

A commander in chief that volunteered to enter the military during the same time period, risked his life for his country (not that I agree with the conflict, but it doesn't lessen the risk he took), and received honors for his duty?

Personally, I don't care for either Kerry or Bush, but if I had to choose between the two based on military conduct... Kerry would win hands down.

Regarding the killing of innocents in Vietnam... I don't know if Kerry did or did not... but a lot of people were doing a lot of bad things during that time... war is not like a board game, people die and bad things happen... unfortunately. If you don't like it, then vote in somebody that is a pacifist.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Xlea321]
    #2899992 - 07/17/04 11:39 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Why do you have a problem with America taking over Afghanistan and installing a puppet government, even to the point of imagining one, but not the Soviet Union?


--------------------
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
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\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
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<) )>    SOLDIERS
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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2900213 - 07/18/04 12:45 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Probably for the same reason you [probably] hate Fidel Castro and [probably] would like to see a new Batista in his place. Excuse me if I'm wrong, pure speculation on your opinions on my part here. But please if I'm right, be kind to admit it.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: retread]
    #2900262 - 07/18/04 01:00 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

retread said:
Quote:


Him: "I like shooting people." *grin*

I didn't quite understand what he meant at first, nor did I really think he was serious (plus I thought he meant shooting combatants)

Me: "How many have you shot?"

Him: "At least a hundred."

Me: "Man, that's crazy, that's a nice dent in those fuckers army for one guy!"

Him: "Hahah yeah, most of them weren't in the army though."

Me: "......." *puzzled face*

Him: "We pretty much shoot anyone out there."




This soldier wouldn't happen to be John Kerry, would it?
Quote:


WTF am I supposed to do? I don't think I've ever felt so powerless in my life. He's out there killing civilians because he thinks it's funny in the name of America. Does anyone see a major problem with that?




So you won't be voting for Kerry?



Lame. Kerry came back from Vietnam and spoke out against what they were doing there. He didn't brag about it. He confessed it with great remorse.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineFungushead
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Redo]
    #2900440 - 07/18/04 02:01 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

And fyi any of you wanting to avoid the future draft - epilepsy will do it for you if you can actually get a doctor to diagnose you with it (I've tried to get into the army twice, and finally said screw it, got married and grew my hair out).


--------------------
2004: The year telemarketing started to shrivel up like a cold pair of nuts.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2901847 - 07/18/04 04:32 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I don't like Castro, but I am against the sanctions against Cuba.

Why would anyone want another Batista in Castro's place. I would rather see a democratically elected government.

What was your point BTW?


--------------------
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\(•_•)
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<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2902641 - 07/18/04 10:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

My point was that the situation was somewhat parallel, even if not completely. A superpower exerting its "influence" (domination, colonialism) on a very nearby and small country (US-Cuba, USSR-Afghanistan). The other superpower tries everything to get the other one in trouble in that small client state.
The difference: the US were already out of Cuba when friendly relations between Castro and the USSR started (the USSR didn't initially believe in the Cuban revolution), while the USSR was still in Afghanistan when the US started to massively flood the mujahideen and the Taliban with guns and dollars in hopes to oust the Russians.
Another difference: US influence used to be more subtle (CIA, puppet governments, etc.), while communist influence was more often military (in Afghanistan, it started "subtle" and then went military).

From your expressed viewpoints, I wildly guessed you would have been more outraged at the time by the ousting of Batista then by American subversion in communist Afghanistan.
That was my point. You may accuse your opponents of selective indignation, but most people are selectively indignant.


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Invisibleretread
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Seuss]
    #2902672 - 07/18/04 10:40 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


So which is better then...




The underlying principle that you have to remember for the rest of this issue is that the inital poster of this article was describing his revulsion at these actions. He has already stated that people that do things like this are wrong and he despises them.
Quote:


Personally, I don't care for either Kerry or Bush, but if I had to choose between the two based on military conduct... Kerry would win hands down.




If you were writing about how much you disliked people that commited wartime atrocities, then you voted for a man that admitted to doing so, you'd be a bit of a hypocrite.
Quote:


Regarding the killing of innocents in Vietnam... I don't know if Kerry did or did not... but a lot of people were doing a lot of bad things during that time... war is not like a board game, people die and bad things happen... unfortunately. If you don't like it, then vote in somebody that is a pacifist.




Do you think that this leniancy towards atrocities applies to current times? Could Kerry, if he were president during the Abu Ghraib incident, just say "People do horrible things in war, I never got in trouble for the horrific incidents that I admitted to, so these guys shouldn't either. War is hell, after all".


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Invisibleretread
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: silversoul7]
    #2902687 - 07/18/04 10:45 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lame. Kerry came back from Vietnam and spoke out against what they were doing there. He didn't brag about it. He confessed it with great remorse.



You think it's "lame" to connect a person who admitted to atrocities with someone who commited atrocities? That sounds more like the word "apt" would be applicable. How about we just open the prison doors to anyone who can say "Sorry", would that make you happy?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2904205 - 07/19/04 09:14 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Why do you have a problem with America taking over Afghanistan and installing a puppet government, even to the point of imagining one, but not the Soviet Union?

So why do you have a problem with the Soviet Union installing a puppet government and not the americans? My view is it would have been best for Afghanistan people if the US hadn't supported the fundamentalists and sustained a civil war for years.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Xlea321]
    #2908625 - 07/20/04 10:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
Why do you have a problem with America taking over Afghanistan and installing a puppet government, even to the point of imagining one, but not the Soviet Union?

So why do you have a problem with the Soviet Union installing a puppet government and not the americans? My view is it would have been best for Afghanistan people if the US hadn't supported the fundamentalists and sustained a civil war for years.




Sure, but whats doner is done. Should we have just walked away after doing all that shit? Or clean up the mess?


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2908690 - 07/20/04 10:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
Sure, but whats doner is done. Should we have just walked away after doing all that shit? Or clean up the mess?


It's always the same with the US. That's the exact same argument with which they're trying to involve the UN in Iraq these days.

As a person, it's sometimes easy to act without thinking, but as a nation, it takes so much preparation to act that you can't invoke the spur of the moment as an excuse afterwards.

Just DON'T INTERFERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, the lesson should be clear by now after Afghanistan, Iraq and many other messes.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2908838 - 07/20/04 11:27 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I agree. Now what do we do with the previous messes?


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2909474 - 07/21/04 02:28 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Well, maybe getting the UN involved isn't a bad idea per se, although their cleaning up record isn't exactly brilliant either. But in principle at least that would be better, and far less harmful than the US to the victims of those messes.
The first and most important condition would be for the US to evacuate all previous messes, and probably put regional peacekeeping troops under UN flag in their stead. In short: GET OUT! If oil was not the reason for invading in the first place, this shouldn't be a problem.


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OfflineRedo
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2909608 - 07/21/04 03:17 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
In short: GET OUT! If oil was not the reason for invading in the first place, this shouldn't be a problem.




..., we invaded for oil now? did i misread something?


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OfflineAldous
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Redo]
    #2911525 - 07/21/04 04:57 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Once again, can you right-wingers fathom that decisions and strategies - and the world in general, for that matter - tend to hold more than one color or dimension? It seems not.

How is it so hard for you guys to understand that waging war for oil AND to establish a military foothold in a strategic region AND to make one's buddies in the oil and arms and logistic services and other relevant industries filthy rich AND still other reasons is more the rule than the exception? Effects can and do usually have multiple causes. Actions almost always have multiple reasons. Saying it was for oil does not rule out other reasons.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I talked to a soldier today [Re: Aldous]
    #2911755 - 07/21/04 06:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I can't wait for a new fuel source to be made viable so that all these contries with oil can be left with no products or industry. Then we will leave and they will crumble into chaos and poverty. Warlords will rule by force and it will be business as usual. But at least we wont be blamed for it any more. Then again we probably will be blamed for leaving them with no viable source of income after making them dependant on oil revenues.

This shit is a double edged sword for them. The oil is thier main if not only income and it is the source of thier trouble. The future doesn't look bright for them no matter what happens, unless they stop relying on the selling of oil and promote other industries.

We are dependant on buying it and them on selling it. It's a cluster fuck but what are you going to do about it?


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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