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Saxoch
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Registered: 02/05/23
Posts: 68
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First Cross Attempt 1
#28895868 - 08/01/24 12:24 AM (5 months, 13 days ago) |
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My first attempt at crossing. I swabbed agar with one strain from a print and swabbed the same agar with another swab from other strain print.
I then let that grow and took a slice and put it to agar. I let that grow then added the agar to grain. Fast growth and thick.
Thing is, I don’t know if they actually crossed to make a hybrid? And wondering if it just stayed with one of the strains not blending them. Did I do something wrong?


I spawned to bulk.

At first it was slow going —too much humidity, so I let in more FAE and it started booming.

Will probably harvest in a few days.
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DV8DUG
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Re: First Cross Attempt [Re: Saxoch] 1
#28895875 - 08/01/24 12:35 AM (5 months, 13 days ago) |
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I'm not sure on the crossing part of your post but that spawn looks like marshmallow in a jar. Congrats on a good flush.
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3.A.M
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Re: First Cross Attempt [Re: Saxoch] 1
#28895892 - 08/01/24 01:04 AM (5 months, 13 days ago) |
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Is there much difference in the 2 varieties phenotypes? And the problem with streaking swabs is you’ll get clumps of each varieties spores sticking together so there’s less chance of each variety crossing, you’d also want to put as much of that myc to grain so you’re getting a larger range of genetic variety and potential crosses, you might’ve gotten lucky though 🤷♂️
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fiddle_head
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Re: First Cross Attempt [Re: Saxoch] 2
#28895907 - 08/01/24 02:07 AM (5 months, 13 days ago) |
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next time drop the whole germination plate in there, larger genetic pool to work with
streaking works because this
"This limitation doesn't exist when the nuclei aren't siblings. Compatibility approaches 100% as you get less closely related. That's a 75% advantage over sibling spores for mating preference.
Back to RustyWhyte, Pasty put spores from two varieties with distinct traits into the same agar plate, and mixed them. This is arguably the simplest way currently known to cross tetrad (tetrapolar, or 4 spore per basidia) mushrooms (anything "bisporous" or only producing 2 spores per basidia has pre-determined mating). If intimately mixed and distributed on the plate- say, using a cross streaking technique- you can expect a crossed genotype four times more frequently than a parent pair. So we do what is generally considered a Very Bad Thing® and drop a germination plate to grain and run it out. As a side note, anyone trying this should make several cross plates and only attempt to run the healthiest looking plate, since we're playing craps with contam here. You can opt for dropping T1's, but you are limiting your diversity if you do.
Now the really depressing part. You go through all that, and your mushrooms start to fruit, and they mostly look like Normal Fucking Mushrooms! This depressing sight is actually a good sign. See, Harry is from the MakTP line, and Nelly from Golden Halo line. So their babies should be giant dicks with gold spores, right? Well, no. While there is a small chance that the recessive traits can appear in the F1, both nuclei of the dikaryon have to have a copy of the same recessive allele per trait. So whatever is Dominant of either parent for any given gene is what we will see expressed predominantly in the first generation, i.e Normal Fucking Mushrooms.
The second generation (when inbreeding resumes) is when heterogygous traits have the chance to independently assort and stack as dominant or recessive homozygous traits. Once the trait is homozygous, it can only contribute that allele during meiosis, so careful selection is required to include all traits desired through each generation of inbreeding. Depending on the trait complexity (most of what we think of as "traits" are actually polygenic, using several genes that may not inherit as a unit), you will see variant phenotypes/genotypes emerge at different points in the stabilization process. For Harry and Nelly, I did see purple and gold spore co-mingled in the same print (picture above, "Calico"), in an otherwise Normal Fucking Mushroom package. When I cloned and ran it in isolation, the prints looked straight up dark purple, but under microscopy I could see intimately mixed purple and gold spores. I have repeated this by crossing PF Redspore and an F2 gold spore only isolate from the Calico (it grows better than my GH), producing an orange-yellow print (pictured above). So some traits have a potential to at least peek out at you in the first generation.
TL;DR:
Mixing spores on agar is a viable method for cross-breeding because fucking your siblings is gross."
what you have is a bunch of normal looking mushrooms.
he only cloned on his f1 because he had a microscope to see the spores, obviously. if you clone youre stabbing in the dark.
i would take a few prints from large, clustered, full-stiped fruits, especially unique or different looking ones and see what i got
based on what you are trying to do, i would also start over with a proper streak and use the whole pate if it is acceptable.
check it.
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Edited by fiddle_head (08/01/24 02:11 AM)
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Saxoch
Stranger



Registered: 02/05/23
Posts: 68
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WOW. COMPREHENSIVE AND MIND BOGGLING. was trying BVXPE6. did put the whole agar in the batch. thanks for the swab smearing link.
Quote:
fiddle_head said: next time drop the whole germination plate in there, larger genetic pool to work with
streaking works because this
"This limitation doesn't exist when the nuclei aren't siblings. Compatibility approaches 100% as you get less closely related. That's a 75% advantage over sibling spores for mating preference.
Back to RustyWhyte, Pasty put spores from two varieties with distinct traits into the same agar plate, and mixed them. This is arguably the simplest way currently known to cross tetrad (tetrapolar, or 4 spore per basidia) mushrooms (anything "bisporous" or only producing 2 spores per basidia has pre-determined mating). If intimately mixed and distributed on the plate- say, using a cross streaking technique- you can expect a crossed genotype four times more frequently than a parent pair. So we do what is generally considered a Very Bad Thing® and drop a germination plate to grain and run it out. As a side note, anyone trying this should make several cross plates and only attempt to run the healthiest looking plate, since we're playing craps with contam here. You can opt for dropping T1's, but you are limiting your diversity if you do.
Now the really depressing part. You go through all that, and your mushrooms start to fruit, and they mostly look like Normal Fucking Mushrooms! This depressing sight is actually a good sign. See, Harry is from the MakTP line, and Nelly from Golden Halo line. So their babies should be giant dicks with gold spores, right? Well, no. While there is a small chance that the recessive traits can appear in the F1, both nuclei of the dikaryon have to have a copy of the same recessive allele per trait. So whatever is Dominant of either parent for any given gene is what we will see expressed predominantly in the first generation, i.e Normal Fucking Mushrooms.
The second generation (when inbreeding resumes) is when heterogygous traits have the chance to independently assort and stack as dominant or recessive homozygous traits. Once the trait is homozygous, it can only contribute that allele during meiosis, so careful selection is required to include all traits desired through each generation of inbreeding. Depending on the trait complexity (most of what we think of as "traits" are actually polygenic, using several genes that may not inherit as a unit), you will see variant phenotypes/genotypes emerge at different points in the stabilization process. For Harry and Nelly, I did see purple and gold spore co-mingled in the same print (picture above, "Calico"), in an otherwise Normal Fucking Mushroom package. When I cloned and ran it in isolation, the prints looked straight up dark purple, but under microscopy I could see intimately mixed purple and gold spores. I have repeated this by crossing PF Redspore and an F2 gold spore only isolate from the Calico (it grows better than my GH), producing an orange-yellow print (pictured above). So some traits have a potential to at least peek out at you in the first generation.
TL;DR:
Mixing spores on agar is a viable method for cross-breeding because fucking your siblings is gross."
what you have is a bunch of normal looking mushrooms.
he only cloned on his f1 because he had a microscope to see the spores, obviously. if you clone youre stabbing in the dark.
i would take a few prints from large, clustered, full-stiped fruits, especially unique or different looking ones and see what i got
based on what you are trying to do, i would also start over with a proper streak and use the whole pate if it is acceptable.
check it.
Edited by Saxoch (08/02/24 12:01 AM)
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3.A.M
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Registered: 10/17/22
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Re: First Cross Attempt [Re: Saxoch] 1
#28897344 - 08/02/24 05:04 AM (5 months, 12 days ago) |
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This is a good read also https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28117746#28117746 Personally I’ve had great success rinsing 2 different varieties spore swabs in a small jar of sterile water, shaking the shit out of it then putting a couple drops to a few plates each, greater chance of both varieties spores being evenly mixed with a higher ratio of successful genetic combinations 👍
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