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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2892968 - 07/15/04 09:52 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

What is NORAD hiding with these conflicting notification times, and absurd "scalded ape" statements? Remarkably, it is possible that the story of fighters scrambling from Otis could be a complete fabrication. Vice-Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers was the acting head of the US military on 9/11 because the Chairman was out of contact on an international flight. [Washington Post, 1/27/02] Two days after 9/11, under oath and in front of a Congressional committee, Myers was asked when the order to scramble planes was first given. He responded, "That order, to the best of my knowledge, was after the Pentagon was struck [at 9:37]." [Myers Senate Confirmation Hearing, 9/13/01] If true, the claim that fighters were ordered scrambled at 8:46 is incorrect by almost one hour! This idea was not simply Myers's confused recollection. The next day, NORAD spokesman Marine Corps Major Mike Snyder also claimed that no fighters were scrambled until after the Pentagon was hit. Only then did the military realize the scope of the attack and order fighters into the air. [Boston Globe, 9/15/01 (D)] NORAD's current story of two fighters being scrambled at 8:46 was first reported on CBS Evening News on September 14, hours after Snyder agreed with Myers's assertions. [CBS, 9/14/01] But even after that, in early October 2001, NORAD commander General Ralph Eberhart stated, "We did not anticipate this threat would take off from inside the United States and it would be a matter of double-digit minutes" to respond. [AP, 10/7/01] So in other words, even though NORAD fighters were supposed to be able to take to the sky within 15 minutes of being ordered to do so, NORAD claimed it was unable to respond unless it was warned more than an hour (or does he mean 99 minutes?) in advance!



There is much more here http://billstclair.com/911timeline/main/essayairdefense.html


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.

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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2892987 - 07/15/04 09:56 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

While steel is often tested for evidence of explosions, despite numerous eyewitness reports of explosions in the towers, the engineers involved in the FEMA-sponsored building assessment did no such tests.

Dr. W. Gene Corley, who investigated for the government the cause of the fire at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco and the Oklahoma City bombing, headed the FEMA-sponsored engineering assessment of the WTC collapse.

Corley told AFP that while some tests had been done on the 80 pieces of steel saved from the site, he said he did not know about tests that show if an explosion had affected the steel.

?I am not a metallurgist,? Corley said.

Much of the structural steel from the WTC was sold to Alan D. Ratner of Metal Management of Newark, N.J., and the New York-based company Hugo Neu Schnitzer East.

Ratner, who heads the New Jersey branch of the Chi ca go-based company, sold the WTC steel to overseas companies, reportedly selling more than 50,000 tons of steel to a Shanghai steel company known as Baosteel for $120 per ton. Ratner paid about $70 per ton for the steel.

Other shipments of steel from the WTC went to India and other Asian ports.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Registered: 07/18/02
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Seuss]
    #2893025 - 07/15/04 10:09 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't think that looked right. I guess a lot of people misspell it because it turns up plenty of links.

Anyway, maybe not all explosive manufacturers, but The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 requires detection agents for plastic explosives.
These are based on isotope labeling. Other tagging options as suggested by The Institute of Makers of Explosives (IME) are discussed. These include multicolored, multilayered plastic particles, rare-earth elements, isotopically labeled trace components, inert chemicals identifiable by specific antibodies, polymeric microbeads, and slow release microcapsules containing perfluorodimethylcyclohexane or perfluoromethylcyclohexane to enhance detectability.


But even still a thorough chemical evaluation can point to a specific manufacturer or process. If explosives were used there would be some sort of residue that could be traced. The intelligence community closely tracks worldwide manufacturers and the chemical composition of their product. If there is a bombing anywhere in the world that the CIA didn't orchestrate them they will do everything they can to get the who's and how's of it.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineBarbi
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Registered: 04/22/02
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: afoaf]
    #2893028 - 07/15/04 10:10 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
Quote:

mndfreeze said:
A skyscraper filled with air, with burning jet fuel, etc and god knows what kind of chemicals/materials inside it, could EASILY be explosive.




except that none of those buildings exploded....

they all just kind of crumbled in on themselves, and in quite
an orderly fashion at that.




well that just rules out the above theory that we purposly blew them up doesnt it?

skyscrapers are designed to fall straight down. I'm pretty sure it was discovery that did a special on skyscrapers, I think in one of their series about mankinds uber acomplishments or something. I saw it maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Unless of course, that was all part of a huge disinformation plot to set the stage for wtc!

</tinfoil>

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2893044 - 07/15/04 10:16 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FrankieJustTrypt said:
While steel is often tested for evidence of explosions, despite numerous eyewitness reports of explosions in the towers, the engineers involved in the FEMA-sponsored building assessment did no such tests.

Dr. W. Gene Corley, who investigated for the government the cause of the fire at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco and the Oklahoma City bombing, headed the FEMA-sponsored engineering assessment of the WTC collapse.

Corley told AFP that while some tests had been done on the 80 pieces of steel saved from the site, he said he did not know about tests that show if an explosion had affected the steel.

?I am not a metallurgist,? Corley said.

Much of the structural steel from the WTC was sold to Alan D. Ratner of Metal Management of Newark, N.J., and the New York-based company Hugo Neu Schnitzer East.

Ratner, who heads the New Jersey branch of the Chi ca go-based company, sold the WTC steel to overseas companies, reportedly selling more than 50,000 tons of steel to a Shanghai steel company known as Baosteel for $120 per ton. Ratner paid about $70 per ton for the steel.

Other shipments of steel from the WTC went to India and other Asian ports.





I bet Mr. Moore (or any number of groups pushing the constiracy theory) did some testing. If not then why didn't they? There was plenty of time to get samples. I suspect they knew they would not find anything. If I suspected something, a chemical analysis whould be one of the first things to do. Forensics rock!


--------------------
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OfflineRoseM
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Aldous]
    #2893114 - 07/15/04 10:55 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:I do not think WTC 7 was demolished by explosives...


I'm very sorry, but this is not about what you think or don't think, there are facts to be addressed here.
Fact: the FEMA investigation commission has no clue as to what might have caused such a neat demolition.
Fact: After the FEMA report, the owner of the place says it was taken down by FDNY.
Fact: Taken together, the two facts above make no sense (FEMA could not have ignored this).
Quote:

but I have yet to look for links about it.


Yes, that's the best thing to do, and make sure to watch the videos of that textbook controlled demolition. Look here, and here and here, and add some research of your own.
Quote:

I do not see what the big conspiracy is concerning WTC 7. It was gonna' fall. Perhaps they decided to controll the fall, perhaps they didn't, perhaps it was discussed and people got confused in the big mess.


Well, again, the 'strange' thing is that the demolition was controlled, that such a controlled demolition can in no way be quick improvisation, especially not under 9/11 circumstances, and that people lied about it. Read my above posts for more details.

And I will repeat these facts until someone comes up with a logical explanation. :crazy2:




Wow, for a public forum, you sure seem to know a lot about what I can and can not say. A political forum no less... where opinions are often given in high doses.

Here's the most rediculious thing I have ever heard:

Airplanes knocked down the WTC towers so WTC 7 could be secretely demolished in a controled explosion.

You want links, you want facts, but you do not want media links... so I am limited to conspiracy links that are sooo loony I won't surf through them (I lived too close to the WTC when it fell to surf through all the conspiracy links... they can piss me off quickly. Not saying I believe Bush's side either, but I call bullshit when I smell it.). I have looked at the links you presented.

So... if I can't use news links, and I won't use conspiracy links... I am only left with tools like common sense and logic... which you said you wanted. Here goes.

I will repeat my logic from earlier posts, and perhaps you will address my points this time instead of bitching that I am not playing by the rules.

1. The WTC towers fell from airplanes... they towers fell from above. From the top down.

2. The towers caused fire and damage to most of the surrounding buildings. That only one other skyscraper fell in the aftermath is AMAZING considering how many buildings were near and how much damage was done.

3. Considering this is the only event of this type in history, why are we all suddenly experts about how a skyscraper should fall?

4. There was good reason to take the building down in a controled fassion if it was going to fall anyway. So a controled demolition is certainly understandible. But it would have been a danger to the demolition workers. It probably WAS discussed on 9-11. It probably never happened. This is how rumors can start.

5. Why would someone risk a controlled detonation if the building they were going to take down was going to be destroyed anyway?

6. Ground zero on 9-11 was very confusing. Many people were saying stuff that wasn't true. Many were confused. It was a LOUD and scary day. Communication channels were stressed to their limits. At the time, over 10,000 people were suspected dead. At the time, people didn't know for sure who attacked us. At the time, finding survivors was the primary goal. At the time FIREMEN, POLICE, EMT and INDEPENDANT CONTRACTORS and VOLUNTEERS were the majority of the people on the scene. The FEDS weren't even close to being in control of the situation at the time... FEDS were spread thin because their HEADQUARTERS in DC was also attacked that day... and even governmental flights were restricted. Do you really think the Police, Firemen, EMT's and independant contractor/volunteers would have kept information secret... especially if it helped uncover who was responsible that day? ESPECIALLY since people would pay good $$$ for such information!

7. Since WTC 7 fell from the bottom up, it looked like it could have been demolished with explosives... but that is how big buildings fall when their bottom support gives out. I remember the moment WTC 7 fell, phones went out for three months in my hood... because the phone company offices were in that building.

8. Demolished or not, WTC 7 would have come down... just like the rest of the WTC site.... either from the terrorist attacks, or during the clean up afterwards.

9. If terrorists, or spooks intended to demolish WTC 7 with explosives... Why were workers given plenty of notice to get out of the area before it came down? BIG CONSPIRACY. Everybody knew it was coming down. The news reported it. Everybody cleared the area. WTC 7 toppled. Nobody (else) was hurt. So if it was a big secret that WTC was gonna' fall in a controled detonation, WHY DID EVERYONE KNOW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN? Who cares if it fell from damage or was demolished? It is obvious people knew it was going to fall... they had a good idea when it was going to fall. The only issue is WHAT caused it to fall. Either damage from the towers which caused a fire, or from a controled demolition set off to bring down an already doomed structure.

10. Where's the conspiracy?

There. Please adress some of these issues... instead of casting them all aside because I don't play by your rules.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Rose]
    #2893519 - 07/15/04 01:30 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, you really don't understand my point, do you?

I'll try to spell it out for you even more clearly. I will write the facts and plain logic in normal text, and the 'conspiracy afterthoughts' between square brackets.

There's no debate about what caused the collapse: it WAS controlled demolition. The owner said so, and it is absolutely evident from the footage.
OK, that's established, there's no argument here. (That's why I said this is not a matter of 'I think...'. Don't take it personally.)

BUT... there are a few problems.

1. Agreed, 9/11 was a hectic day, very confusing. That's why, after events like that, they appoint official investigation committees to sort things out. They have all the time in the world, and supposedly, access to all the evidence they wish. Despite that, FEMA could not find a logical (and acceptable) reason for the collapse. They just didn't know, after months of investigation. [Of course, you don't need to be an expert to see that the collapse was obviously controlled, but for more than a year, the official stance was that the collapse was spontaneous, despite the admitted low probability. Later on, when more people started to notice the absurdity, the owner changed the official truth.] Surely, if the FDNY had 'pulled' the building, FEMA would have known. The FDNY is hardly an obscure and elusive source, they would be the first to tell FEMA. But there's nothing of the sort in the FEMA report. [Surely if the FDNY was responsible, firefighters would have shown up by now to testify they gave the order to tear down the building, but I have seen none.]

2. After more than a year, the owner of the building changes the story. The FDNY took down the building, he says, because it was going to fall anyway. There you have it, you would think, an explanation at last. But did FEMA pick up that version? Not that I know of. Why? Because they know it's not realistic to claim that the FDNY sent firefighters into a building whose base was allegedly so much on fire that it threatened to collapse, to strap explosives to the deepest basement foundations in order to secure controlled demolition. Access was probably near impossible, as would have been the improvised planning of the demolition. [And still, if it was possible, they would have found the firefighters who did the job or ordered it done, but where are they?] Furthermore, where was the emergency? The area was cleared, and nearby buildings were extremely damaged anyway. They could have done it in the next few days or just let it go down by itself.

So we're left with two versions: the official one ("a mysterious, nearly impossible collapse"), and the owner's ("controlled demolition planned after the WTC attack because of the damage"). Neither is really possible.
[There is a third version, actually. The explosives were placed beforehand, and the controlled demolition was planned in advance, hopefully to go unnoticed as such in the midst of all the events.]

Quote:

Airplanes knocked down the WTC towers so WTC 7 could be secretely demolished in a controled explosion.


No, WTC7 was not the main aim (as the subsequent oil wars have shown), but a welcome side target.
Quote:

The WTC towers fell from airplanes... they towers fell from above. From the top down.


I fully agree with that. Never said anything different.
Quote:

That only one other skyscraper fell in the aftermath is AMAZING considering how many buildings were near and how much damage was done.


The opposite is true. The amazing thing is WTC7 went down from just fire. Read some specialized firefighters' websites.
Quote:

Ground zero on 9-11 was very confusing.


Exactly, that's one reason why planning controlled demolition (which happened) on the spot was impossible. But confusion on the day itself doesn't prevent an investigation committee to determine what happened that day, specially if it has unlimited access and time.
Quote:

I remember the moment WTC 7 fell, phones went out for three months in my hood... because the phone company offices were in that building.


I really wonder what this is supposed to show us.
Quote:

If terrorists, or spooks intended to demolish WTC 7 with explosives... Why were workers given plenty of notice to get out of the area before it came down?


Apparently, the intent was not to kill even more people, but to wipe out sensitive contents of the building. Anyway, it's not because it's obvious something looks suspicious that I can tell you exactly why and how everything happened. All I can say is the official truth is too flawed to be true truth. I'm ready to accept any logical explanation, and certainly one that doesn't involve any conspiracy. But it does have to be logical...

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Aldous]
    #2893670 - 07/15/04 02:27 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Now we're getting on the same page.

Yes, there was a lot of Top secret stuff in the building. High tech equiptment... The phone company was in there too (not relevant to you, but it was to me... that is when I lost the internet for three months).

Because of WTC 7's proximity to the rubble of the twin towers, and because of the level of destruction, it may have been in the government's best interest to take the building down, or risk a security breach. All kinds of criminal evidence from federal cases went up in smoke that day. There was forensic evidence, confiscated drugs, unused firearms and amunition (some unused ammo was already exploding before WTC 7's collapse. I imagine more went off during and after)... the city's brand new high tech crisis center was inside WTC 7. It would be days, weeks... months before WTC 7 could be safely secured.

So there were many logical reasons to take WTC 7 down in a hurry. There are many reasons to keep it seceret as well. It is best if you do not have to admit what top secret information was lost that day. Keeps things top secret.

As for FEMA, I had to deal with them in the aftermath. IMO they were unhelpful twats. That said, it is not their job to take down buildings, I am not surprised they don't have more info... it doesn't seem to be their job (nor is it their area of expertice). They are the Federal Emergency Management Agency. They put things back together, they don't take them apart.

At least that's what they want you to think... :smile:

I'd tend to believe the firefighter's version... although "Impending collapse," does sound a little fishy to me... I believe the FDNY did it. Of all people, NYPD Firemen would not have a reason to lie or cover up the events of that day. It is simply not in their best interest. They were hit the hardest. They were in the most control of Ground Zero on that day. They have the ability to demolish buildings. They know when buildings are likely to fall from structural damage.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Registered: 01/27/04
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2893679 - 07/15/04 02:31 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
Quote:

FrankieJustTrypt said:
While steel is often tested for evidence of explosions, despite numerous eyewitness reports of explosions in the towers, the engineers involved in the FEMA-sponsored building assessment did no such tests.

Dr. W. Gene Corley, who investigated for the government the cause of the fire at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco and the Oklahoma City bombing, headed the FEMA-sponsored engineering assessment of the WTC collapse.

Corley told AFP that while some tests had been done on the 80 pieces of steel saved from the site, he said he did not know about tests that show if an explosion had affected the steel.

?I am not a metallurgist,? Corley said.

Much of the structural steel from the WTC was sold to Alan D. Ratner of Metal Management of Newark, N.J., and the New York-based company Hugo Neu Schnitzer East.

Ratner, who heads the New Jersey branch of the Chi ca go-based company, sold the WTC steel to overseas companies, reportedly selling more than 50,000 tons of steel to a Shanghai steel company known as Baosteel for $120 per ton. Ratner paid about $70 per ton for the steel.

Other shipments of steel from the WTC went to India and other Asian ports.





I bet Mr. Moore (or any number of groups pushing the constiracy theory) did some testing. If not then why didn't they? There was plenty of time to get samples. I suspect they knew they would not find anything. If I suspected something, a chemical analysis whould be one of the first things to do. Forensics rock!





First off, Mr. Moore expresses the viewpoint that the towers were brought down by Osama Bin Laden and his airplanes.

Secondly, what are you talking about "there was plenty of time to get samples"??? Was FEMA handing out free samples?

In this particular case, steel from the subterranean levels of the building would be required, which was buried at the bottom of the rubble. I really don't think after weeks of FEMA controlled clean-up someone would be able to waltz in and carry off a (probably hundreds and hundreds of pounds at the smallest) hunk of steel. If you believe that to be probable I don't know what to tell you. Like stated above, FEMA sold basically all of the steel before testing it. Who knows what steal was sold and what was tested(and what those test results said). If you can find actual test results using FOIA or what not, please share.

------------------------

I'm going to review real quick:


Unprecedented incompetence regarding aerial response time to 4 hijacked planes.. more than a few contradictions as well.

Towers were built to withstand being hit by commercial airliners.

"we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor"

Huge seismic spikes recorded at University of Columbia,

The two unexplained spikes are more than 20 times the amplitude of the other seismic waves associated with the collapses and occurred in the East-West seismic recording as the buildings began to fall.

Experts cannot explain why the seismic waves peaked before the towers actually hit the ground.

?The seismic effects of the collapses are comparable to the explosions at a gasoline tank farm near Newark on Jan. 7, 1983,? the Palisades Seismology Group reported on Sept. 14, 2001.

Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., told AFP that he saw pools of ?literally molten steel? at the World Trade Center.

FEMA quickly gets rid of the steel, releases no data from the tests done on few remaining samples.

--------------


I just can't, in good conscience, believe the "official" story. There are too many highly unprobable, unproven, and "coincidental" factors.

Also, this story is coming from members of the habitual liars club - The US gov't.

Other things to consider:

US/World economy faltering

Oil production peaking. Starting to get less abundant and more expensive.

Is it too much to believe that the worlds best businessmen would make a 3000 live/2 skyscraper investment, to ensure the survival of an entire countries way of life. To make sure that your children can live as comfortably as you did? This is real life. This isn't TV media wonderland. Its RISK, its chess... Realpolitik.

Whether you are sick of the oil argument or not. It is important as hell to the survival of our current way of life. Nothing can replace it. And right now we are at the top of the oil-production bell curve, its only going to get more expensive. When oil gets more expensive, everything does, as basically everything in our society and economy is dependent on oil in some form.

We have some oil in our and our allies territory, but the jackpot is in the mid-east. If that oil falls out our sphere of influence we can kiss our economic domination goodbye along with our decadent and comfortable way of life. We need to westernize that territory above those oil wells, to ensure that the western economy can utilize that oil.

I don't care if you agree or not, but I can tell you, this isn't the fun-and-easy fairy tale the gov't/media has painted for you to make it easier to accept. This is power politics(the only politics that matter) and this is the way things are done.

If enjoy your cushy job, stocked supermarkets, and endless entertainment, you'll understand.


--------------------
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OfflineAldous
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Rose]
    #2893728 - 07/15/04 02:55 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

So there were many logical reasons to take WTC 7 down in a hurry.


Explain how this would be done. The building was on fire, and it takes much longer to plan.
Quote:

That said, it is not their job to take down buildings, I am not surprised they don't have more info...


Read what I wrote. I never said FEMA took it down, the FDNY allegedly did. I AM surprised they don't have more info, since they were in charge of the investigation. (I'm writing all this for, like, the FOURTH time, please pay attention.)
Quote:

I'd tend to believe the firefighter's version... [...] I believe the FDNY did it.


Believe what you will, but don't dress up your beliefs as arguments.
Quote:

Of all people, NYPD Firemen would not have a reason to lie or cover up the events of that day.


Exactly, that's why they would have admitted to it if they had done it, but I have seen no such admission, just the landlord's allegation.

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Barbi]
    #2893754 - 07/15/04 03:04 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

because there was no obvious EXPLOSION does
not mean, per se, that their destruction wasn't
*helped* along.

when buildings are purposely destroyed, they don't
explode either, they just kind of crumble in on themselves
similar to WTC 1, 2 and 7.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Aldous]
    #2893781 - 07/15/04 03:18 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Jesus Christ dude. I see what you are trying to say... and every time I attempt to answer you, you ignore everything I say. Not only that, you insult me in the process.

The firefighters have no reason to lie about what they did. They all lost friends that day. They were in charge of ground zero at the time. Why would they lie? What good would it do them or their dead friends? It doesn't make sense.

Please read my post again if you must and take your own advice. Calm down.

Please stop telling me not to dress my beliefs as arguments. This, being the P & A forum, is exactly the place to do just that. Dressing up beliefs as arguments is all you are doing in this case as well. Connecting the dots... that's what we do in here. Stop insulting my right to do that. It makes your argument look weak.


--------------------
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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2893794 - 07/15/04 03:22 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Alright Moore doesn't push conspiracy but look at the footage and materials he manages to get his hands on. I don't know how he gets his hands on that stuff either. There were plenty of construction workes there who actually did the work. Don't tell me that with a little money that someone couldn't have gotten a few samples. If there was real suspicion then they could track that rubble to India if need be and get some. Unless you tell me that every worker was a loyal FEMA emplooyee and there were loyal FEMA armed guards on evey truck that carried shit away from the site, I have to think that samples were available to anyone with a will to test them. A few lawyers could have done the trick too I bet.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Rose]
    #2893822 - 07/15/04 03:37 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

This really looks like a dialogue between deaf people...
Quote:

The firefighters have no reason to lie about what they did. They all lost friends that day. They were in charge of ground zero at the time. Why would they lie? What good would it do them or their dead friends? It doesn't make sense.


I KNOW, that's what I said, for heaven's sake. They never lied. They never said they took the building down, because no-one ever asked and they didn't do it in the first place. THEY NEVER LIED. We agree about that.

Agreed about beliefs-arguments. I take that back.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Aldous]
    #2894211 - 07/15/04 05:24 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

OK... then this begs an obvious question...

If we are in agreement, what the hell are you arguing about?

I don't understand the BIG issue. What does this have to do with terrorism? What does this have to do with oil?

FEMA?

Don't get your panties in a wad just yet. I think we can discuss this with civility.


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Fiddlesticks.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Rose]
    #2895987 - 07/16/04 02:55 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

What I'm saying is the only logical explanation I can find, is that the explosives for the controlled demolition of WTC7 were placed there before the attack, which at least suggests some kind of inside job. FEMA covered this up in their investigation report. That's all I'm saying.

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OfflineBarbi
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: afoaf]
    #2896012 - 07/16/04 03:30 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
because there was no obvious EXPLOSION does
not mean, per se, that their destruction wasn't
*helped* along.

when buildings are purposely destroyed, they don't
explode either, they just kind of crumble in on themselves
similar to WTC 1, 2 and 7.




discovery also has a nice series on this company that does controlled demolition. Every single building I watched them drop contained a pretty obvious explosion.

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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2896044 - 07/16/04 04:07 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Towers were built to withstand being hit by commercial airliners.




I recall seeing a documentary about the collapse of the Twin Towers last year, the name escapes me but it did quite a good job at explaining how and why the towers collapsed.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2896572 - 07/16/04 10:22 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

The towers were built to withstand the impact of the biggest airliner of the time... the Boeing 707. Since then, much bigger airliners have been built.

A 707 is very small compared to the boeing 757's that ultimately took the towers down.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Aldous]
    #2896579 - 07/16/04 10:24 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
What I'm saying is the only logical explanation I can find, is that the explosives for the controlled demolition of WTC7 were placed there before the attack, which at least suggests some kind of inside job. FEMA covered this up in their investigation report. That's all I'm saying.




This is not the conspiracy you are looking for... move along.

If it was a secret, inside job, why did everyone know when it was coming down?


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Fiddlesticks.


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