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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2891350 - 07/14/04 09:00 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

You people can debate the structural integrity of skyscrapers all you want. It is all BS. You know why? Because the man wanted you to have this conversation all along. You are being played by big brother, and you are to dim to realize that you are just a cog in the machine.

I told you the real origins of 9-11. It was my grandmother and Henry Kissinger caught butt naked in a bathtub. Nobody has yet refuted my claims. They had whimsical and lurid sex right there in the tub, and somewhere between the baby oil and her sagging breasts they plotted the demise of all free men.


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Tastes just like chicken

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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: JesusChrist]
    #2891433 - 07/14/04 09:45 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

It was my grandmother and Henry Kissinger caught butt naked in a bathtub. Nobody has yet refuted my claims




That's not possible because I was nailing your grandma that night.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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OfflineRoseM
Devil's Advocate
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Aldous]
    #2891468 - 07/14/04 10:01 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I was just giving my opinion of the events not intentionally ignoring yours. I do not think WTC 7 was demolished by explosives... but I have yet to look for links about it. There was a lot of confusion that day. Live amunition from Police, FBI and CIA offices were among the rubble. I imagine as soon as it looked like WTC 7 may come down, they got people away from it. But it is interesting to think it was demolished with explosives. I do not see what the big conspiracy is concerning WTC 7. It was gonna' fall. Perhaps they decided to controll the fall, perhaps they didn't, perhaps it was discussed and people got confused in the big mess. I do not think the reasons for 9-11 lie in WTC 7's rubble.


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Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleMeat_Log_Smurf
FumbDuck

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 1,144
Loc: BFE
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: monoamine]
    #2891561 - 07/14/04 10:26 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

That was you! I was the one banging Kissenger! Tag team back again. Next time I get first dibs on granny.

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InvisibleAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Aldous]
    #2891839 - 07/14/04 11:37 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
Although I would deem it perfectly possible that the twin towers collapsed from the plane impacts (but then, I'm no expert), you've got to be honest with yourself and carefully watch that WTC 7 footage. There's absolutely no way a building could accidentally collapse in such a neat and clean way. To obtain such a flawless collapse, you just have to have a simultaneous explosion in every single one of the main foundation points. No way a bunch of diesel (!) tanks on fire could achieve the same result.

Will someone address this issue here?

I agree with those who think WTC7 is the most blatant piece of evidence that there was some kind of inside job on 9/11. I must admit the Pentagon attack is not bad either though. And then there are all those fantastical official stories: Atta's passport found quite intact among the smoking ruins of the towers, Atta trying to secure a government loan to buy a crop-duster plane, disclosing his 9/11 plans to the office clerk (do a search on "atta bryant", this story is too ridiculous), etc. etc. Face it, there's a lot of "evidence" that's obviously been planted after the facts.

Unfortunately, the truth is too much of a shock for people to see it.


im glad to see some people are going and doing their own research and not taking what the main stream feeds you. i was so against beleiving these ideas, but after reading talking to experts and seeing videos ( it was part of a project i am working on) i can in no way beleive sept 11th happened the way most of the people in this county think it did. and its sad how history can repeat its self so easly. guys look in the history books when you go and say this is just too hard to beleive. look at the fake terrorism created by nero hitler and even america in the past , just to manipulate the peoples minds.

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OfflineAldous
enthusiast
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/99
Posts: 980
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 17 days, 7 hours
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Rose]
    #2892325 - 07/15/04 04:03 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:I do not think WTC 7 was demolished by explosives...


I'm very sorry, but this is not about what you think or don't think, there are facts to be addressed here.
Fact: the FEMA investigation commission has no clue as to what might have caused such a neat demolition.
Fact: After the FEMA report, the owner of the place says it was taken down by FDNY.
Fact: Taken together, the two facts above make no sense (FEMA could not have ignored this).
Quote:

but I have yet to look for links about it.


Yes, that's the best thing to do, and make sure to watch the videos of that textbook controlled demolition. Look here, and here and here, and add some research of your own.
Quote:

I do not see what the big conspiracy is concerning WTC 7. It was gonna' fall. Perhaps they decided to controll the fall, perhaps they didn't, perhaps it was discussed and people got confused in the big mess.


Well, again, the 'strange' thing is that the demolition was controlled, that such a controlled demolition can in no way be quick improvisation, especially not under 9/11 circumstances, and that people lied about it. Read my above posts for more details.

And I will repeat these facts until someone comes up with a logical explanation. :crazy2:

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: ]
    #2892436 - 07/15/04 06:03 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sorry Suess, couldn't let this one slip past. Obviously you didn't play with enough fireworks as a kid. If you throw explosives into a fire, they will definitely detonate as intended 99% of the time.




Fireworks for the most part are not explosives... they do not detonate. Flash powder is the one exception, which can detonate if contained or if a lot is burned at once.

I worked for a semester in an explosives research lab in college testing the detonation velocity of new glycol based explosives for the military...

Even pure nitroglycerine will burn with a light blue flame... though it will also detonate if you aren't very careful. Most modern day explosives are designed to be very safe, which means they are designed to be very difficult to detonate. Large blasting caps and boosters are required in many cases.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Seuss]
    #2892488 - 07/15/04 06:32 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

explain the video of the fireworks factory exploding?

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Invisibleshriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Barbi]
    #2892493 - 07/15/04 06:37 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

thats easy. storage of diffrent substances alone and combined with other stored in big amounts can easy go bang you know if there is a fire. that doesnt mean that you can mix these together and get a safe mix like seuss tells and wich is true. but a combination of things and things that havent yet been combined can be the reason for a huge explotion at a _factory.
seuss is very correct when he talks about fireworks. they are not made to detonate.

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OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: shriek]
    #2892497 - 07/15/04 06:41 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I never claimed they were MADE to detonate, but that doesnt mean they DONT.

all it takes is the right air pressure, in a tight enough container to make something non explosive go boom.

We used to a blow a lot of shit up in my chem classes (smart teacher, knew how to make it 'fun' for us to want to learn) and I can safely say we blew up a lot of things that are considered 'non explosive' or 'non-flammable' It only takes the right conditions.

A skyscraper filled with air, with burning jet fuel, etc and god knows what kind of chemicals/materials inside it, could EASILY be explosive.

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Invisibleshriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Barbi]
    #2892513 - 07/15/04 06:55 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
A skyscraper filled with air, with burning jet fuel, etc and god knows what kind of chemicals/materials inside it, could EASILY be explosive.




yes i agree with that. thats what i mean, combinations of things, chemical reactions. i dont think they will be able to computer stimulate it either there are too many unknown and extreme factors, but i dont see it unlogical at all that the buildings went straight down. but saying it would be impossible is just a unlogical statement not based on anything else than speculation. in the world of physics and math its completly possible that the wtc collapsed the way it did

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Barbi]
    #2892586 - 07/15/04 07:38 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

> explain the video of the fireworks factory exploding?

An explosion is not a detonation... they have very different definitions. In any case, I already did...

> Flash powder is the one exception, which can detonate if contained or if a lot is burned at once.

> I never claimed they were MADE to detonate, but that doesnt mean they DONT.

Actually, it does. Black powder, which is used in most fireworks, will not detonate. It can explode when burned while confined, but not detonate. As I said before, flash powder (a mix of KCl03 and Al), is one of the few exceptions. Because of this, flash powder is used with great care in fireworks.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineBarbi
Plastic Person

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 12,976
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2892664 - 07/15/04 08:01 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

On a side note, obviously this man was an attempted murder by our government. Because toilets just DONT EXPLODE.

derrrrrrrrrrduhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

------------------------------------

BLACKSVILLE, W.Va. (AP) - Warning: smoking in the toilet can be dangerous. A portable toilet exploded Tuesday after a man who was inside it lit a cigarette.

Emergency workers said the man was not severely injured and drove himself to Clay-Battelle Community Health Center. He was later transferred to Ruby Memorial Hospital. His name and condition were not available Wednesday.

The explosion, which occurred in Blacksville, resulted from a buildup of methane gas inside the portable toilet. The methane did not "take too kindly" to the lit cigarette, said a spokeswoman for Monongalia Emergency Medical Services.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Barbi]
    #2892847 - 07/15/04 09:00 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BLACKSVILLE, W.Va. (AP) - Warning: smoking in the toilet can be dangerous. A portable toilet exploded Tuesday after a man who was inside it lit a cigarette.

Emergency workers said the man was not severely injured and drove himself to Clay-Battelle Community Health Center. He was later transferred to Ruby Memorial Hospital. His name and condition were not available Wednesday.

The explosion, which occurred in Blacksville, resulted from a buildup of methane gas inside the portable toilet. The methane did not "take too kindly" to the lit cigarette, said a spokeswoman for Monongalia Emergency Medical Services.




When I was in high school, one of the other students stole a golfball sized chunk of sodium metal from the chemistry lab. Between classes he tossed it into a toilet to show a friend how it burned in water. As the sodium reacts with the water, large volumes of hydrogen gas are released and a lot of heat is generated. The guy paniced, and flushed the toilet to get rid of the evidence... big mistake... sodium floats on water. The toilet flushed and the chunk of sodium floated back up and got stuck under the flapper trapping the hydrogen gas and still giving off a lot of thermal energy... BOOM! The guys had run from the bathroom just seconds before the detonation (hydrogen tends to detonate rather than explode).


Going back to the WTC stuff... nothing I have seen, or read, would lead me to believe that explosives were used. If explosives had been used, I would expect stories to leak out from the people that were monitoring the contamination caused by the site... they would have detected trace amounts of the explosives.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2892917 - 07/15/04 09:30 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

9:52 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha."

"Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

Ladder 15: "What stair are you in, Orio?"

Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha to lobby command post."

Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven."

Battalion Seven Chief: "... Ladder 15."

Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower."

Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here."

Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're on our way."
.....

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/firefighter-tape-excerpts.htm


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.

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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Seuss]
    #2892933 - 07/15/04 09:38 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Another good point, all high explosives manufactured today have identifying markers in them that can be traces after detonation. Ampho may be an exception but it is not manufacture per say but usually mixed on site because of it's volatility.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2892938 - 07/15/04 09:43 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I think the most damning piece of evidence to suggest some level of complacency, is the ridiculous air force response times.

Payne Stewart's private jet is intercepted about 21 minutes after it deviates from its course, yet 4 jumbo jets can fly around willy nilly for close to an hour before any fighters are scrambled, in the most watched area of airspace in the world.

.................


All four of the hijacked planes were scheduled to take off within several minutes of 8:00 a.m., though Flight 93 was delayed on the runway for 40 minutes. Flight 11 from Boston was the first plane to get hijacked. Edited transcripts of the cockpit transmissions show that the last routine communication between Flight 11 and Boston's air traffic control was at 8:13 a.m. and 47 seconds. [New York Times, 10/16/01 (C)] The loss of communication was quickly noticed - flight controllers can be heard discussing it at 8:15. Furthermore, "just moments" after the radio contact was lost, the transponder was turned off as well. [MSNBC, 9/15/01] The transponder is the electronic device that identifies the jet on the controller's screen, gives its exact location and altitude, and also allows a four-digit emergency hijack code to be sent. Boston air traffic manager Glenn Michael later said, "We considered [Flight 11] at that time to be a possible hijacking." [AP, 8/12/02]

Normally, pilots press the ELT (emergency locator transmitter) button as soon as they suspect a hijacking is in progress. This button is within easy reach. However, the pilot of Flight 11, Captain John Ogonowski, did not press this button, and nor did the pilots on Flights 77 and 93. There has been speculation that this may have been because hijackers were already in the cockpits when the hijackings began, posing as a guest pilot sitting in the cockpit's extra seat. [Fox News, 9/24/01, Boston Globe, 11/23/01] This would explain, for instance, why Flight 11's radio contact and transponder signal were both lost at about 8:14, while two stewardesses calling from the flight indicated the hijackers in the passenger section didn't get out of their seats until about 8:21. [Boston Globe, 11/23/01, ABC News, 7/18/02] But Captain Ogonowski was clever. He began turning the talk-back button off and on, which enabled flight controllers to hear what was being said, and also showed them that something was wrong. One controller said, "The button was being pushed intermittently most of the way to New York," and continued until about 8:38, so he must have started not long after 8:14. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01, MSNBC, 9/15/01]

Flight controllers suspected something was wrong, but perhaps were confused because the ELT button had not been activated. But at 8:20, Flight 11 stopped transmitting its IFF (identify friend or foe) beacon signal [CNN, 9/17/01], and the plane also was clearly off course by that time (see adjacent flight path map). As a result, at "about 8:20" Boston flight control decided that Flight 11 had probably been hijacked. [Newsday, 9/23/01, New York Times, 9/15/01 (C)] However, it did not notify NORAD or anyone else of a possible problem.

This is when the failure of America's air defense system began. FAA regulations in force at the time state, "Consider that an aircraft emergency exists... when: ... There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with any... aircraft." [FAA regulations] They also state, "If... you are in doubt that a situation constitutes an emergency or potential emergency, handle it as though it were an emergency." [FAA regulations] Furthermore, MSNBC explained that a significant course deviation is "considered a real emergency, like a police car screeching down a highway at 100 miles an hour" and leads to fighters being quickly dispatched to see what the problem might be. [MSNBC, 9/12/01] But, as ABC News later put it, around 8:20, "There doesn't seem to have been alarm bells going off, traffic controllers getting on with law enforcement or the military. There's a gap there that will have to be investigated." [ABC News, 9/14/01]

If there still was any doubt Flight 11 had been hijacked, that doubt was removed at 8:24. Because Captain Ogonowski was periodically holding down the talk-back button, beginning at 8:24 and 38 seconds, Boston flight controllers heard the hijackers in the cockpit broadcasting a message to the passengers: "We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you will be OK. We are returning to the airport." A flight controller responded, ''Who's trying to call me?'' The hijacker continued, "Everything will be OK. If you try to make any moves you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet." [Guardian, 10/17/01, New York Times, 10/16/01 (C)] A Boston flight controller later said that immediately after hearing this voice, he "knew right then that he was working a hijack." [Village Voice, 9/13/01] At 8:25 exactly, seconds after hearing this message, Boston flight control notified other flight control centers of the hijacking. But, supposedly, once again it did not notify NORAD. Incredibly, NORAD asserts that it wasn't told of the hijacking until 8:40 - a full 15 minutes later! [NORAD, 9/18/01]


Larry Arnold, NORAD Commander on 9/11, testifying before the 9/11 Commission. [C-SPAN]

These 15 minutes are vital. As mentioned previously, NORAD guaranteed that its fighters could take off within 15 minutes of being given the order to scramble. It must also have taken a few minutes for NORAD to confirm the situation and pass the word to the pilots. Let's say this takes five minutes (in actual fact, when Major General Larry Arnold at NORAD's Command Center in Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida, first heard that Flight 11 had been hijacked, he said, "Go ahead and scramble them, and we'll get the authorities later" [ABC News, 9/11/02], so pilot notification could have happened very quickly). It would then have taken another 15 minutes at most to get the fighters in the air. A NORAD spokeswoman said that fighters from Otis can reach New York City in 10 to 12 minutes. [Cape Cod Times, 9/16/01] So, adding this up, 8:25, plus 5, 15, and 12 minutes, means that the fighters would have reached New York City by 8:57. This would have been too late for Flight 11, which crashed into the World Trade Center at 8:46, but it would have reached New York six minutes before Flight 175, which crashed at 9:03.


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.

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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2892939 - 07/15/04 09:44 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Lies and Contradictions

Thus, had the FAA not delayed its notification of NORAD, the approximately 620 people killed in the World Trade Center's South Tower might have been saved. [New York Magazine, 9/02] Had the FAA reported its suspicions at 8:20 or even around 8:14 (when a hijacking was already suspected), the fighters would have had another 15 to 21 minutes to reach New York City and decide what to do. But is it true that the FAA did in fact wait so long before notifying NORAD? As a matter of fact, a later ABC News report says that the FAA notified NORAD employee Lt. Colonel Dawne Deskins at 8:31 a.m., not 8:40. [ABC News, 9/11/02] A different version of that ABC report states, "Shortly after 8:30 a.m., behind the scenes, word of a possible hijacking reached various stations of NORAD." [ABC News, 9/14/02] Even such a late notification around 8:30 would have given the fighters from Otis a fighting chance to reach Flight 175 before it crashed, especially since NORAD says the fighters only took six minutes to get ready and take off, instead of the maximum 15. [NORAD, 9/18/01]

NORAD claims that after being told of the hijacking at 8:40, it waited six minutes to give the scramble order to the Otis pilots. It then took another six minutes before the pilots took off. So, at 8:52, two fighters took off toward New York City. According to Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy, one of the pilots, before he took off a fellow officer had told him, "This looks like the real thing." Duffy later said, "It just seemed wrong. I just wanted to get there. I was in full-blower all the way." A NORAD commander has said the planes were stocked with extra fuel as well. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02] Full-blower meant the fighters were going as fast as they could go. An F-15 can travel over 1875 mph. [Air Force News, 7/30/97] Duffy later said, "As we're climbing out, we go supersonic on the way, which is kind of nonstandard for us." Their target destination was the airspace over Kennedy airport in New York City. [ABC News, 9/11/02]

So even if the late notification of 8:40 is true, these fighters still should have been able to reach New York City before Flight 175 as long as they traveled 1100 mph or faster - far below their maximum speed of 1875 mph. In fact, Major General Larry Arnold says they did head straight for New York City at about 1100 to 1200 mph. [MSNBC, 9/23/01 (C), Slate, 1/16/02] Yet, according to NORAD, the journey took 19 minutes, meaning the fighters traveled below 600 mph, and below supersonic speeds. [NORAD, 9/18/01] Major Gen. Paul Weaver, director of the Air National Guard, thus made the absurd statement, "The pilots flew 'like a scalded ape,' topping 500 mph but were unable to catch up to the airliner." [Dallas Morning News, 9/16/01] At that speed, Flight 11 would have been traveling faster than the fighters!


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2892942 - 07/15/04 09:44 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

> Ampho

Anfo... amonium nitrate/fuel oil...

> all high explosives manufactured today have identifying markers in them

Is this true? I haven't been in the industry for over ten years, but I remember it was a huge debate back when I was... the companies were complaining about the extra costs, lack of need, side effects, etc... From what I remember, it wasn't going anywhere at the time, but a lot can change in ten years...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Barbi]
    #2892950 - 07/15/04 09:48 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
A skyscraper filled with air, with burning jet fuel, etc and god knows what kind of chemicals/materials inside it, could EASILY be explosive.




except that none of those buildings exploded....

they all just kind of crumbled in on themselves, and in quite
an orderly fashion at that.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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