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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
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the facts about 911
    #2887492 - 07/13/04 10:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

did planes really cause the buildings to fall, read the facts and stop being lazy letting the media do your investigateing for you http://www.911review.org


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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2887518 - 07/13/04 10:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

very interesting. things are starting to creep me out.


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OfflineAhronZombi
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2887564 - 07/13/04 10:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tasty_Smurf_House said:
very interesting. things are starting to creep me out.


i think that the majority of the country beleives what the news told them on sept 11th happened when the very video from those news stations say other wise. the biggest peaces of evidance are builing number 7 clearly being demolished before the other buildings when it wasnt effected by a plane at all. also that the government says the plane that hit the pentigon burned in the fire. a plane that size couldnt be completely burnt up in a fire and news photos show a engine of a even smaller plan. not to mention the size of the whole in the pentigon could never acomidate that size of a air plain


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Offlineld50negative1
lethal dosage

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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2887571 - 07/13/04 10:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

right... i'd learn how to spell myself


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OfflinePhred
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2887573 - 07/13/04 10:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"Facts". Uh huh.

Everything that tinfoil hat brigade website is trying to push has been thoroughly discounted years ago.

I'm not going to invest the time to debunk each and every ludicrous "fact" on that site now (check the archives yourself), but I've got time for one of them

-- no plane hit the Pentagon?

Bullshit. They say there was no debris -- wrong! There are photos on many sites showing the debris. I personally know one person in Washington who saw it hit. There are dozens of eyewitness reports to be found on the web.

One thing none of these "no plane hit the Pentagon" theorists ever seem able to answer is:

- if that plane didn't hit, just exactly where are the people who were on that plane hidden? The plane took off with X number of passengers, all recorded on the passenger manifest, it was tracked on radar, none of the crew and passengers have been seen since. Where the fuck are those people? Did they get beamed up to the Mothership?

Give me a break.

pinky


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OfflineAhronZombi
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Phred]
    #2887594 - 07/13/04 11:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

the government says their is no plane debris not me. and their is video footage from a security camera of a much smaller plane hitting. plus non of it has been disprove by a independent investigation b/c the US government will not allow one. even though days after pearl harbor and the Kennedy assassination investigations started independently. they know America is too lazy to look at the facts and do their own research, most Americans will lay back let the government controlled media do the research and take it as pure fact


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OfflineAhronZombi
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2887599 - 07/13/04 11:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

All that one needs to know, to be able to conclusively prove that the Twin Towers were demolished, is that the towers fell in roughly 10 seconds, that is, that they fell at about the same rate that an object falls through air.

Anyone with a little common sense will realize that the top of a building does not pass through the concrete and steel that comprises the lower portion of the building at the same rate that it falls through air. This just doesn't happen, unless, of course, the lower part of the building has lost its structural integrity (and this is usually due to the detonation of a multitude of small explosive charges as seen in controlled demolitions).

The fact that the towers collapsed in about 10 seconds is a statement that the upper portion of each of the towers passed through the lower portion at about the same rate that it would have fallen through air. The fact that the towers fell this quickly (essentially at the rate of free-fall) is conclusive evidence that they were deliberately demolished.

Believing that there is nothing wrong with the towers collapsing so quickly, is roughly analogous to believing that people pass through closed doors as quickly as they pass through open doors.

The fact that they fell at such a rate means that they encountered essentially no resistance from the supposedly undamaged parts of the structure. That is, no resistance was encountered from any of the immensely strong parts of the structure that had held the building up for the last 30 years. From this one can conclude that the lower undamaged parts were actually very damaged (probably by the detonation of a multitude of small explosive charges as is usual in a controlled demolition).


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OfflinePhred
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2887618 - 07/13/04 11:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Who is going to do an "independent" investigation? Seems to me the Senate investigation is as thorough as we're ever gonna see.

As for "the government" saying there was no debris, that's horseshit. Even senators aren't that dumb. There's freaking photographs of it, fa cryin' out loud! Look for yourself... they aren't hard to find. Or are you too lazy? is it that you'd rather let the tinfoil brigade brainwash you?

I can't help but note that you, too, cannot answer my question -- where are the crew and passengers? It is a well-documented, indisputable fact that those people boarded that plane the morning of September 11, and an indisputable fact that none of them have been seen (in one piece) since, and an indisputable fact that insurance companies paid off their policies (and believe me, insurance companies don't do that without proof).

I eagerly await your answer.

pinky


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2887619 - 07/13/04 11:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If that is the case wouldn't it stand to reason that someone would have noticed the explosives being placed? It's not like the building wasn't constantly full of people.


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"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineAhronZombi
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: z@z.com]
    #2887641 - 07/13/04 11:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

their are i witness reports and fire department video of explosiions going off in the lover levels of the wtc right after the plave hit 90 some odd floors up


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: Phred]
    #2887643 - 07/13/04 11:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"I can't help but note that you, too, cannot answer my question -- where are the crew and passengers? It is a well-documented, indisputable fact that those people boarded that plane the morning of September 11, and an indisputable fact that none of them have been seen (in one piece) since, and an indisputable fact that insurance companies paid off their policies (and believe me, insurance companies don't do that without proof)."

its not hard to kill people and cover it up when you are the us government


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OfflinePhred
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2887647 - 07/13/04 11:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

All that one needs to know, to be able to conclusively prove that the Twin Towers were demolished, is that the towers fell in roughly 10 seconds, that is, that they fell at about the same rate that an object falls through air.




More pseudo-scientific gibberish.

Let's see here -- the argument is that in order for them to collapse at the rate they did, the entire interior of the structure had to be empty. This means more than just some "small" explosions set at a few points, it means many "small" explosions had to go off inside the buildings -- say every ten floors or so, and that these explosions had to occur at least some minutes before the actual collapse, sequentially, so that the interior would have time to collapse in on itself leaving the path free for the upper portion to fall at the same rate it would through empty air.

How the hell is any team of demolition folks going to be able to place, in advance, that many charges at all the correct points with no one noticing? Those were busy buildings, dude. Fifty thousand people working in them. Need I go any further with this?

I'm done with this. As I said, every point raised on that site has been rebutted thoroughly and repeatedly a long time ago. You pride yourself on not being lazy? Spend a couple of hours on the net researching those ludicrous claims, then.

pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2887655 - 07/13/04 11:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

its not hard to kill people and cover it up when you are the us government




That's your answer?

Nothing I could say in response could possibly be more effective than letting that statement stand on its own.

pinky


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2887669 - 07/13/04 11:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I confess, my grandmother was behind 9-11. I tried to deny it myself, but as more facts come out I have to confront my demons and face the truth. A few days before 9-11, I caught her bathing with Henry Kissinger. It is all coming together now.

Once the smokescreen is lifted we will all be able to see clearly. In the tender moments of their bath, Grandma, Henery Kissinger, and a little rubber duckie who has yet to be positively identified plotted the demise of our great nation. I would submit to you that at this point, that rubber duckie is the missing link.

George Bush received intelligence reports from Interpol weeks before that had Henry Kissinger naked in her bathtub, rubbing baby oil all over my grandma's sagging breasts. He did nothing to stop it. It all could have been averted.

Not only could a tragedy have been averted, but I am not sure what I am going to tell grandpa.


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2888351 - 07/14/04 03:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

NEW SEISMIC DATA REFUTES OFFICIAL EXPLANATION

Two unexplained ?spikes? in the seismic record from Sept. 11 indicate huge bursts of energy shook the ground beneath the World Trade Center?s twin towers immediately prior to the collapse.





American Free Press has learned of pools of ?molten steel? found at the base of the collapsed twin towers weeks after the collapse. Although the energy source for these incredibly hot areas has yet to be explained, New York seismometers recorded huge bursts of energy, which caused unexplained seismic ?spikes? at the beginning of each collapse.

These spikes suggest that massive underground explosions may have literally knocked the towers off their foundations, causing them to collapse.

In the basements of the collapsed towers, where the 47 central support columns connected with the bedrock, hot spots of ?literally molten steel? were discovered more than a month after the collapse. Such persistent and intense residual heat, 70 feet below the surface, in an oxygen starved environment, could explain how these crucial structural supports failed.

Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., told AFP that he saw pools of ?literally molten steel? at the World Trade Center.

Tully was contracted after the Sept. 11 tragedy to re move the debris from the site.

Tully called Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Md., for consultation about removing the debris. CDI calls itself ?the innovator and global leader in the controlled demolition and implosion of structures.?

Loizeaux, who cleaned up the bombed Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, arrived at the WTC site two days later and wrote the clean-up plan for the entire operation.

AFP asked Loizeaux about the report of molten steel on the site.

?Yes,? he said, ?hot spots of molten steel in the basements.?

These incredibly hot areas were found ?at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven [basement] levels,? Loizeaux said.

The molten steel was found ?three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed,? Loizeaux said. He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon.

Construction steel has an extremely high melting point of about 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit.

Asked what could have caused such extreme heat, Tully said, ?Think of the jet fuel.?

Loizeaux told AFP that the steel-melting fires were fueled by ?paper, carpet and other combustibles packed down the elevator shafts by the tower floors as they ?pancaked? into the basement.?

However, some independent investigators dispute this claim, saying kerosene-based jet fuel, paper, or the other combustibles normally found in the towers, cannot generate the heat required to melt steel, especially in an oxygen-poor environment like a deep basement.

Eric Hufschmid, author of a book about the WTC collapse, Painful Questions,* told AFP that due to the lack of oxygen, paper and other combustibles packed down at the bottom of elevator shafts would probably be ?a smoky smoldering pile.?

Experts disagree that jet-fuel or paper could generate such heat.

This is impossible, they say, because the maximum temperature that can be reached by hydrocarbons like jet-fuel burning in air is 1,520 degrees F. Because the WTC fires were fuel rich, as evidenced by the thick black smoke, it is argued that they did not reach this upper limit.

The hottest spots at the surface of the rubble, where abundant oxygen was available, were much cooler than the molten steel found in the basements.

Five days after the collapse, on Sept. 16, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) used an Airborne Visible/Infrared Imaging Spectrometer (AVIRIS) to locate and measure the site?s hot spots.

Dozens of hot spots were mapped, the hottest being in the east corner of the South Tower where a temperature of 1,377 degrees F was recorded.

This is, however, less than half as hot at the molten steel in the basement.

The foundations of the twin towers were 70 feet deep. At that level, 47 huge box columns, connected to the bedrock, supported the entire gravity load of the structures. The steel walls of these lower box columns were four inches thick.

Videos of the North Tower collapse show its communication mast falling first, indicating that the central support columns must have failed at the very beginning of the collapse. Loizeaux told AFP, ?Everything went simultaneously.?

?At 10:29 the entire top section of the North Tower had been severed from the base and began falling down,? Hufschmid writes. ?If the first event was the falling of a floor, how did that progress to the severing of hundreds of columns??

Asked if the vertical support columns gave way before the connections between the floors and the columns, Ron Hamburger, a structural engineer with the FEMA assessment team said, ?That?s the $64,000 question.?

Loizeaux said, ?If I were to bring the towers down, I would put explosives in the basement to get the weight of the building to help collapse the structure.?

SEISMIC ?SPIKES?

Seismographs at Columbia University?s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, N.Y., 21 miles north of the WTC, recorded strange seismic activity on Sept. 11 that has still not been explained.

While the aircraft crashes caused minimal earth shaking, significant earthquakes with unusual spikes occurred at the beginning of each collapse.

The Palisades seismic data recorded a 2.1 magnitude earthquake during the 10-second collapse of the South Tower at 9:59:04 and a 2.3 quake during the 8-second collapse of the North Tower at 10:28:31.

However, the Palisades seismic record shows that?as the collapses began?a huge seismic ?spike? marked the moment the greatest energy went into the ground. The strongest jolts were all registered at the beginning of the collapses, well before the falling debris struck the Earth.

These unexplained ?spikes? in the seismic data lend credence to the theory that massive explosions at the base of the towers caused the collapses.

A ?sharp spike of short duration? is how seismologist Thorne Lay of University of California at Santa Cruz told AFP an underground nuclear explosion appears on a seismograph.

The two unexplained spikes are more than 20 times the amplitude of the other seismic waves associated with the collapses and occurred in the East-West seismic recording as the buildings began to fall.

Experts cannot explain why the seismic waves peaked before the towers actually hit the ground.

Asked about these spikes, seismologist Arthur Lerner-Lam, director of Columbia University?s Center for Hazards and Risk Research told AFP, ?This is an element of current research and discussion. It is still being investigated.?

Lerner-Lam told AFP that a 10-fold increase in wave amplitude indicates a 100-fold increase in energy released. These ?short-period surface waves,? reflect ?the interaction between the ground and the building foundation,? according to a report from Columbia Earth Institute.

?The seismic effects of the collapses are comparable to the explosions at a gasoline tank farm near Newark on Jan. 7, 1983,? the Palisades Seismology Group reported on Sept. 14, 2001.

One of the seismologists, Won-Young Kim, told AFP that the Palisades seismographs register daily underground explosions from a quarry 20 miles away.

These blasts are caused by 80,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate and cause local earthquakes between Magnitude 1 and 2. Kim said the 1993 truck-bomb at the WTC did not register on the seismographs because it was ?not coupled? to the ground.

?Only a small fraction of the energy from the collapsing towers was converted into ground motion,? Lerner-Lam said. ?The ground shaking that resulted from the collapse of the towers was extremely small.?

Last November, Lerner-Lam said: ?During the collapse, most of the energy of the falling debris was absorbed by the towers and the neighboring structures, converting them into rubble and dust or causing other damage?but not causing significant ground shaking.?

Evidently, the energy source that shook the ground beneath the towers was many times more powerful than the total potential energy released by the falling mass of the towers. The question is: What was that energy source?

While steel is often tested for evidence of explosions, despite numerous eyewitness reports of explosions in the towers, the engineers involved in the FEMA-sponsored building assessment did no such tests.

Dr. W. Gene Corley, who investigated for the government the cause of the fire at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco and the Oklahoma City bombing, headed the FEMA-sponsored engineering assessment of the WTC collapse.

Corley told AFP that while some tests had been done on the 80 pieces of steel saved from the site, he said he did not know about tests that show if an explosion had affected the steel.

?I am not a metallurgist,? Corley said.

Much of the structural steel from the WTC was sold to Alan D. Ratner of Metal Management of Newark, N.J., and the New York-based company Hugo Neu Schnitzer East.

Ratner, who heads the New Jersey branch of the Chi ca go-based company, sold the WTC steel to overseas companies, reportedly selling more than 50,000 tons of steel to a Shanghai steel company known as Baosteel for $120 per ton. Ratner paid about $70 per ton for the steel.

Other shipments of steel from the WTC went to India and other Asian ports.

Ratner came to Metal Management after spending years with a metal trading firm known as SimsMetal based out of Sydney, Australia.



http://www.americanfreepress.net/09_03_02/NEW_SEISMIC_/new_seismic_.html


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2888367 - 07/14/04 04:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

finally suport. yes that is true and i didnt bring that up, also this same evidance can be used in the oclahoma city bombin. the vibrations clearly show oklahoma city was the same deal and not just a redneck car bomb


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OfflineAhronZombi
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2888489 - 07/14/04 05:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Also weeks before 911 the ownership of the tower had changed hands the new owners made but loads of insurance money after the fall of the towers they wouldn?t have made if a plane just hit them. also this artical shows that when the towers were built charges were built with the building to make it fall exactly as it did when we all thought the plane fire brought it down http://www.rense.com/general48/chargesplacedinWTC.htm

Also why did the other wtc buildings come down in the same demolition fashion when they werent even hardly damaged, the video of a almost untouched building number 7 can be seen just about anywhere. also if you watch any of the buildings come down you can se darkening on different floors almost like a shadows showing internal destruction from explosives. and all the fire that blew out of the building when it came down wasnt simply from the almost dead fire the planes cause the fire was clearly a large explosion


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2888498 - 07/14/04 05:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

here are some more great facts to disprove the medias story line http://www.propagandamatrix.com/archiveprior_knowledge.html


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OfflineAldous
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Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2888587 - 07/14/04 06:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Although I would deem it perfectly possible that the twin towers collapsed from the plane impacts (but then, I'm no expert), you've got to be honest with yourself and carefully watch that WTC 7 footage. There's absolutely no way a building could accidentally collapse in such a neat and clean way. To obtain such a flawless collapse, you just have to have a simultaneous explosion in every single one of the main foundation points. No way a bunch of diesel (!) tanks on fire could achieve the same result.

Will someone address this issue here?

I agree with those who think WTC7 is the most blatant piece of evidence that there was some kind of inside job on 9/11. I must admit the Pentagon attack is not bad either though. And then there are all those fantastical official stories: Atta's passport found quite intact among the smoking ruins of the towers, Atta trying to secure a government loan to buy a crop-duster plane, disclosing his 9/11 plans to the office clerk (do a search on "atta bryant", this story is too ridiculous), etc. etc. Face it, there's a lot of "evidence" that's obviously been planted after the facts.

Unfortunately, the truth is too much of a shock for people to see it.


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Anonymous

Re: the facts about 911 [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2888725 - 07/14/04 08:10 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Larry Silverstein admitted in an interview that WTC7 was collapsed with a controlled demolition that afternoon because of too much structural damage from fire.


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