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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Would Bush risk his own country for votes?
    #2884818 - 07/13/04 02:34 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

A thought came to mind today.

I've been hearing lately about Bush saying how their might be an attack, they've been saying it for months. They are so adamant that there will be an attack. Someone on the news said his ratings have slipped under 50% and they said something about Bush saying how they are going to be attacked.

This worries me. Not because I think that they will be attacked, but that Bush will do something to ensure an attack. Would Bush goes as far as to somehow make a deal with someone, offer or give them something so that he can control the attack, choose it, etc. He could have it all planned out before it even happens, tell everyone he told them so, and get backing from people who think "Hey maybe he should have invaded Iraq after all"

Just a thought.

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OfflineAldous
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2884849 - 07/13/04 02:49 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

No deals to make here, there are enough people willing to offer their lives to kill a shitload of Americans on American territory. The only thing the administration has to do, is make sure the attack would take place on a massive enough scale and be rightly timed. All they have to do is make conditions favorable for it to happen.

[Like the first time...? :shocked:]

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OfflineAldous
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2884890 - 07/13/04 03:18 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Just to show I'm not merely daydreaming, read this article and others at  http://www.globalresearch.ca.
Quote:

One year before 9/11, the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) called for "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor," which would serve to galvanize US public opinion in support of a war agenda. (See http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/NAC304A.html )
[...]
The PNAC's reference to a "catastrophic and catalyzing event" echoes a similar statement by David Rockefeller to the United Nations Business Council in 1994:
"We are on the verge of global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."

Similarly, in the words Zbigniew Brzezinski in his book, The Grand Chessboard:.
"?it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus [in America] on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstances of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat."


And then look at today's agenda:
Quote:

General Franks, who led the military campaign into Iraq, pointed recently (October 2003) to the role of a "massive casualty-producing event" to muster support for the imposition of military rule in America. (See General Tommy Franks calls for Repeal of US Constitution, November 2003, http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/EDW311A.html ).
Franks identifies the precise scenario whereby military rule will be established:
"a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event [will occur] somewhere in the Western world - it may be in the United States of America - that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass casualty-producing event." (Ibid)


And on December 22, 2003, Tom Ridge (Mister Homeland Security) said: "If we go to red, we close down the country". Add to this that the Pentagon is actively lobbying to get the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act cancelled, which ensures the separation of the military from police and judicial matters. They're actually trying to militarize the country.

Now see all this in the light of recent news (warning of an upcoming attack, attempts to provide a legal base for the delay of elections), and the picture will get somewhat clearer.  :eek:

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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Aldous]
    #2884895 - 07/13/04 03:26 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Holy fucking shit. I can honestly say that's fucked up. I'm so so so so glad I live in Canada.

I love Canada.

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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2884908 - 07/13/04 03:36 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

bush = the new nero

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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2884920 - 07/13/04 03:40 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry for the lack of knowledge on the subject. Nero? Sounds like some Greek or Roman shite.

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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2884924 - 07/13/04 03:44 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Ah, he's the Roman emperor who burned down much of Rome. :smirk:

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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2884927 - 07/13/04 03:46 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus - a very nice guy by anyones standards  :wink:

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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: adrug]
    #2884930 - 07/13/04 03:47 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Why on earth would he burn down Rome?

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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2884933 - 07/13/04 03:50 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2884935 - 07/13/04 03:53 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Its only a story, nobody knows for certain if he was responsible for the burning of Rome.

Quote:

Nero was fair-haired, with weak blue eyes, a fat neck, a pot belly and a body which smelt and was covered with spots. He usually appeared in public in a sort of dressing gown without a belt, a scarf around his neck and no shoes.
In character he was a strange mix of paradoxes; artistic, sporting, brutal, weak, sensual, erratic, extravagant, sadistic, bisexual - and later in life almost certainly deranged.




Quote:

After the fire he used a vast area between the Palatine and the Equiline hills, which had been utterly destroyed by the fire to build his 'Golden Palace' ('Domus Aurea'). This was a huge area, ranging from the Portico of Livia to the Circus Maximus (close to where the fire was said to have started), which now was turned into pleasure gardens for the emperor, even an artificial lake being created in its centre. The temple of the deified Claudius was not yet completed and - being in the way of Nero's plans, it was demolished.

Judging by the sheer scale of this complex, it was obvious it could never have been built, were it not have been for the fire. And so quite naturally Romans had their suspicions about who had actually started it.



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2884963 - 07/13/04 04:17 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Waht do you mean "would"?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Swami]
    #2885366 - 07/13/04 09:35 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

No shit. Replace the word "would" with the words "when will", and we have a winner.


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Aldous]
    #2885573 - 07/13/04 10:45 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I welcome the new world order with open arms.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: afoaf]
    #2885953 - 07/13/04 12:10 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Some won't be able to greet with open arms.

Armless Iraqi Boy's Operation Postponed

(CBS) Doctors treating a 12-year old Iraqi boy who lost his arms and was severely burned in the bombing of Baghdad postponed a skin-graft operation on him Monday but said his condition was improving.

Ali Ismaeel Abbas was home in Baghdad with his family one night when a missile blew apart his life, killing his pregnant mother, his father, brother and aunt. Ten family members in all, were killed.

He was sent to the Saud A. Albabtain Center for Burns and Plastic Surgery on Wednesday and received temporary skin grafts.

Those were to have been replaced by a permanent skin-graft operation, but that was postponed until later in the week because "we are not happy with the burn area," surgeon Imad Najada said


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Swami]
    #2886086 - 07/13/04 12:41 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

If the terrorists are smart they will avoid any attacks untill after the election. They desperately want Kerry in office and will do anything to get Bush out.

Say,, that sounds like some people I know.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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InvisibleJohn
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2886143 - 07/13/04 12:53 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

yeah everyone who disagrees with bush is a terrorist...

say, that sounds like an adminstration we all know.

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: John]
    #2886426 - 07/13/04 02:15 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't say that.
Would you like to point out a flaw in my statement?


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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InvisibleJohn
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2886576 - 07/13/04 03:05 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

i never said you did.

how do you know what "they" want?

are you a terrorist :shocked:

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: John]
    #2886590 - 07/13/04 03:08 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Common sense
They will be able to do what they want if Kerry is in.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineCyber
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2886623 - 07/13/04 03:18 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Add to this the fact that Bush Sr. was head of the CIA and the fact that the #1 gun control lobby is Handgun Control Inc. whos board of directors are/were CIA agents.(They have been disarming us)

Top it off with the Executive Orders that follow

10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US;
10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private;
10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment;
10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways;
11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires;
11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private;
11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US
11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft;
11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds;
11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private;
11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency").

All of these were renewed on June 6, 1994 under EO# 12919

I would say the board is set and they are close to a check mate.

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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2886676 - 07/13/04 03:37 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Common sense
They will be able to do what they want if Kerry is in. 



Proof that common sense is neither common nor sensible.I,personaly, do not feel much better with a borderline draft dodger than a seasoned combat veteran running a war( even if the chicken hawk IS backed by all the big warmongers of this country)
WR:wexican:


--------------------
To old for this place

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Cyber]
    #2886701 - 07/13/04 03:47 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

GGod. Did you actually read those orders? For example 11000 does not say a word about authority to seize people to do labor for the federal gov.. The order is about preparing plans and preparedness plans for civilian manpower
Some highlights:
(a) Civilian manpower mobilization.
(b) Wage and salary stabilization
(c) Worker incentives and protection.
(f) Claimancy. Prepare plans to claim materials, equipment, supplies and services needed in support of assigned responsibilities and other essential functions
THIS IS THE ONLY MENTION OF TAKING ANYTHING.
(g) Skill development and training.
SEC. 5. Emergency Actions. Nothing in this order shall be construed as conferring authority under Title III of the Federal Civil Defense Act of 1950, as amended, or otherwise, to put into effect any emergency plan, procedure, policy, program or course of action prepared or developed pursuant to this order. Such authority is reserved to the President.


I guess if you havent been in the millitary you wouldn't know, but there are a lot of good people in there and they are not going to take American civilians hostage. And it doesn't matter what orders the pres gives if the millitary will not enforce them.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2886724 - 07/13/04 03:55 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Oh and one more note on EO 11000 signed by:
JOHN F. KENNEDY

THE WHITE HOUSE,
February 16, 1962.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Cyber]
    #2886838 - 07/13/04 04:32 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds;
 




Quote:

11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private; 




Have personaly witnessed these programs in effect.My community was the national poster community for Y-2K preparedness and had a federal spook attending all grange meetings.It was there I witnessed the signing over of possesion/control of any and all buildings which would hold 50-100 people in "case of emergency".
I also live in an area which recieves more aerial spray of herbicides ,rodenticides,and pesticides than many more conformist regions,of which we do not number since High times claimed one could not toss a stick w/o hitting a pot farmer in our valley. It is only a matter of time before either salmon protection or an epidemiological outbreak of herbicide related conditions the area will be shut off from private homeownership.
They already are doing things to make life more difficult such as shutting both ends of our lone roadway down for construction to impede local work traffic.The deployment of sherriff traffic patrols during work travel hrs rather than patrol the weekend drunks from Eugene who flood our lake and rockslides.
From the highest policies to the quiet changes in the ability to live in our area the wheels of change are turning. I know "Rural Americans" are an endangered species I have watched our numbers decline since I was a child.
WR:wexican:


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To old for this place

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2886892 - 07/13/04 04:45 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Rural Americans are an endangered species because the children see what they think is something better somewhere else and move away. I don't know how old you are but they have been declining in numbers (at least as a percent, now probably absolutely) for longer than I can remember. Technology may allow a lot of people to take to the hills again without sacrificing their connectedness, but I won't be one of them and I doubt it will be greater than the number who leave. Do you think people should be subsidized for staying in the sticks more than they already are?

Between you, Cyber and the Smurf this thread gets 5 tin foil hats from me


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2886917 - 07/13/04 04:51 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

it's the end of the world... as we know it... and i am completely apathetic

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OfflineCyber
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2886982 - 07/13/04 05:12 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
Oh and one more note on EO 11000 signed by:
JOHN F. KENNEDY

THE WHITE HOUSE,
February 16, 1962.




Quote:

Cyber said:
All of these were renewed on June 6, 1994 under EO# 12919





I think I covered it.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2886996 - 07/13/04 05:15 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Yes; I feel Bush WOULD risk his own country for votes.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2887010 - 07/13/04 05:20 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I am posting from a sattelite internet link in a full tech home with wired and wireless network, security interface, home theatre w/ computer interface and sattelite TV.So the "conectedness" issue is moot.

Quote:

Do you think people should be subsidized for staying in the sticks more than they already are?



Please inform me how we are subsidized since there is NO section 8 housing out here and only a small portion of this community gets government aid (mostly food stamps).Per capita we are a VERY inexpensive subsidy compared to urban dwellers.
As for employment we are a 45 minute drive to two urban areas, a relatively minor commute.
By and large the greatest number of folks leaving our valley are aging and cannot care for their property due to chronic conditions fostered by toxic exposure .
Statisticly we retain 40% of the high school graduates in the valley, but lose their aging relatives.
Quote:

I don't know how old you are but they have been declining in numbers (at least as a percent, now probably absolutely) for longer than I can remember. 



I am in my middle ages and have seen the same decline I just question the forces behind it since we have concepts such as Urban Density being touted as a Good thing. I for one cannot live where I have to look at my neighbors, only be a good one if needed.
PS perhaps if urban living is so much more attractive you could explain why my property has tripled in value in only eight years. Obviously some body wants out of the Urban jungle.
If given the choice would most choose living along a quiet stream or an apartment?More attractive? I hardly think so, economic desparation and physical disability is more correct for my area.
Now where is my damn foil hat?:lol:
WR:wexican:


--------------------
To old for this place

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OfflineCyber
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2887044 - 07/13/04 05:30 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Between you, Cyber and the Smurf this thread gets 5 tin foil hats from me




Ill take that tin foil hat!!!

Ill use it to cover my Pf jars so the spy satellites can not see what I have!

Now thats using your head!


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2887061 - 07/13/04 05:37 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

My point about the technology was exactly what you are doing

The subsidization point was about the fact that far more taxes are taken from cities and suburbs than are spent there. Rural life is inefficient.

And, on a personal note, I have lived in very rural areas, huge cities and small cities, and suburbs and I will never live very far from NYC again. Just a personal choice.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2887169 - 07/13/04 06:28 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

The problem is that nobody knows at this point who would benefit from a terrorist attack. I think it would be pretty stupid and unrealistic for Bush to let an attack happen in hopes it would help his campaign, when it could do the very opposite. Surely the terrorism in Iraq and against US interests around the world is not helping him in the polls. I suspect a homeland attack would be even worse for him.

I think terrorists would probobly like to see somebody new in the White House. That would symbolize the division of America and the erosion of US morale and resolve. Terrorists might like Kerry if they think he will softer and more hands tied, but really I think the want the symbolic victory of putting an end to the Bush doctrine and the War on Terrorism. But even they can't be sure of who benefits from an attack.
It seems like the government is just trying to be on the side of precaution and takes what information it has seriously.

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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2887416 - 07/13/04 07:57 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Free thinkers are dangerous

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Offlinevoice
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2887758 - 07/13/04 10:11 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Don't you think the terrorists are doing exactly what they want NOW??? al queda has never been more mobilized, or greater in numbers. Not to mention our military is stretched as far as it can go fighting 2 wars (that we know about - we've all but forgot Afganistan), we have the national guard (who protect us HERE) oversees, and bush has CUT funding for first responders (you know, homeland security) ... Do you REALLY think george w bush has made anyone safer with the actions he's taken??? If we had an administration who was less focused on war profiteering and oil, and more focused on fighting terrorists, osama bin laden wouldn't have lasted 3 months after 911. Period. we give these terrorists waaaaay too much credit. They could have said the same thing about the bloods and crips and we would have believed it.


--------------------
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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: voice]
    #2888951 - 07/14/04 09:19 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

In the short term no we are not safer but in the long term, flushing out the extremists and eliminating them will be safer. We knew that there would be a serge of terrorism. Anyone knows a tiger that is feeling threatened is more dangerous that one that is comfortable. The surge you see are the desperateness of them. I'm not convinced that there are really that many more terrorists, I think they were just not visible and in hiding before. The ones that "became" terrorists probably would have anyway at some point. And NO they are not doing what they want now, why do you think they are thrashing about and being so active? Desperation my friend.

Cyber,
Just saying it was the Dem prez of all prezez that started it and who was prez when it was renewed in '94?

You throw that out as evidence of the NWO and of course the NWO is a republican endeavor. So I just want to know how this all fits?

If there is an NWO I guarantee it is both sides of the isle. If the left isn't taking away economic freedoms then it is the right erroding the constitution and taking social freedoms. They use the publics tendency to swing too far in the opposite direction after a crisis to talk you out of your freedoms, talking about being safe. Fuck I don't want or need to be totally safe and secure. I love the quote about if you are willing to give them up, you don't deserve them.

Fuck the left and the right, they are opposite sides of the same coin!


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineBarbi
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2888976 - 07/14/04 09:30 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
I didn't say that.
Would you like to point out a flaw in my statement?




personally, I disagree. I think the terrorists WANT bush in office, so as to further destroy the worlds outlook on america as he chases them around the globe. I also think they want to martyr themselves quite a bit.

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Barbi]
    #2889241 - 07/14/04 11:17 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

They may want to martyr themselves but I don't think that is the same as being cased down like dogs. I think they would rather have us turn a blind eye so they could put together a doosey and drop it on us unexpectedly. They are so decentralized right now that it will be difficult to put together anything very grand. I could be wrong though.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2889361 - 07/14/04 11:49 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tasty_Smurf_House said:
Would Bush risk his own country for votes?





Yes.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2889930 - 07/14/04 01:47 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:

Fuck the left and the right, they are opposite sides of the same coin!




I completely agree.

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2889998 - 07/14/04 02:00 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
If there is an NWO I guarantee it is both sides of the isle. If the left isn't taking away economic freedoms then it is the right erroding the constitution and taking social freedoms. They use the publics tendency to swing too far in the opposite direction after a crisis to talk you out of your freedoms, talking about being safe. Fuck I don't want or need to be totally safe and secure. I love the quote about if you are willing to give them up, you don't deserve them.

Fuck the left and the right, they are opposite sides of the same coin!



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: and...  :thumbup:


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2890917 - 07/14/04 05:56 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Why on earth is Bush being such a fuck?

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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2891306 - 07/14/04 08:26 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe it's genetic. He comes from a long line of fucks.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Offlinevoice
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2891399 - 07/14/04 09:24 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

what makes you think flushing out terrorists is at all possible? and if it is, why did we divert funds and manpower to iraq where there were none? Did Iraq and Al-Queda have an established connection? sure they did. it was a we-want-nothing-to-do with each other sort of relationship ... if we had a president who *wanted* to rid the world of terrorists, osama would be caught. period. these terrorists are given way too much credit. Just like the commies were played out to be more powerful than they actually were.

it's all about fear. not safety. if we felt safe, bush would be out of a job.


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beliefs are substitutes for knowledge

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InvisibleMeat_Log_Smurf
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2891798 - 07/14/04 11:20 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Duh. If the chatter they say is picking up and the government let a major terrorist event happen then people would think Bush could not keep the U.S. safe and the measures that he put in place aren't worth a bucket of crap so lets get this guy out of office. But if the plot was foiled on US territory then people would say he foiled it, giving him a boost in the polls. Its kinda common sense. Basically they are trying to safegaurd their ass. A change in the HS warning is a double edged sword because you damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Edited by Meat_Log_Smurf (07/16/04 03:37 PM)

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: voice]
    #2893085 - 07/15/04 10:44 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

It is not uncommon for two enemies to collaborate against a third more powerful common enemy. This collaboration is a temporary, single purpose agreement. The enemy of my enemy is my friend thing.

While the concrete link my not have been evident or even existed at the time the potential was certainly there. Especially considering that Osama may have been willing to give concessions to Saddam if he was desperate enough post Afghanistan.
We are in a preemptive policy period right now (right or wrong) and that means we are dealing with and looking at/for potentials and possibilities. I think that was a big part of the decision to go to Iraq. The problem with this policy (one problem anyway) is that it is hard to justify after the fact.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineAldous
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2893125 - 07/15/04 11:00 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:We are in a preemptive policy period right now (right or wrong) and that means we are dealing with and looking at/for potentials and possibilities. [...] The problem with this policy (one problem anyway) is that it is hard to justify after the fact.


Well then, let's consider George W. Bush might be tempted to do very stupid and dangerous things in order to cling to power and may lie (yet again) to the American people and Congress etc. Start impeachment right now, on a preemptive base (if his past misconduct is not enough yet). Now that won't be too hard to justify after the fact, will it? :grin:

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Aldous]
    #2893132 - 07/15/04 11:04 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
Quote:

mntlfngrs said:We are in a preemptive policy period right now (right or wrong) and that means we are dealing with and looking at/for potentials and possibilities. [...] The problem with this policy (one problem anyway) is that it is hard to justify after the fact.


Well then, let's consider George W. Bush might be tempted to do very stupid and dangerous things in order to cling to power and may lie (yet again) to the American people and Congress etc. Start impeachment right now, on a preemptive base (if his past misconduct is not enough yet). Now that won't be too hard to justify after the fact, will it? :grin:




Sure, then we can have Cheney for the balance of the term. Not long but that guy scares the hell out of me. If you don't like Bush then you certainly wouldn't want Cheney in there for any amount of time.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Cyber]
    #2897196 - 07/16/04 01:41 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cyber said:
Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
Oh and one more note on EO 11000 signed by:
JOHN F. KENNEDY

THE WHITE HOUSE,
February 16, 1962.




Quote:

Cyber said:
All of these were renewed on June 6, 1994 under EO# 12919





I think I covered it.




Since you won't answer my question about who was in office when EO# 12919 was signed, I will.

William J. Clinton

THE WHITE HOUSE,
June 3, 1994.

So it was the two most highly esteemed Dems of all time, the ones that you hold is such high regard that set us up for tyranny.

What say you?


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2897741 - 07/16/04 04:45 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

What did Bill do now?

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2908521 - 07/20/04 12:53 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

He fooled Cyber into thinking that the EO's that he reauthorized were actually reauthorized by Bush. Typical political slight of hand.


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2909910 - 07/20/04 07:34 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
He fooled Cyber into thinking that the EO's that he reauthorized were actually reauthorized by Bush. Typical political slight of hand.




Hold IT! I never said that Bush reauthorized the EO's! I simply stated that they were reauthorized! This crap is being done by both parties. I say get rid of them both!

Besides I vote Libertarian and have for years.

Edited by Cyber (07/20/04 07:36 PM)

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Cyber]
    #2911934 - 07/21/04 10:34 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Granted, you didn't specificaly say it but you worded you post in such a way as to imply it. You replied to a post said bush this and that , started your post with bush Sr. this and that and then said "top it of with..." .

Seems like you were trying to mislead people to me. You could be a politician.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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OfflineCyber
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2912082 - 07/21/04 11:22 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
Seems like you were trying to mislead people to me. You could be a politician.




Ill admit that it could have been a little misleading. But that would depend on your definition of the word "to". All of this is beside the point as I never inhaled!
Although little was accomplished during my term. I promise you that on my next term there will be "No New Taxes", "Free Health Care for all", "Free education", and "Free food" for all who ask. All you need do is reelect me! :smile:

Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinburgh) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior. "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

It would appear as if we have reached the point where people are voting for the person that promisees the most from the public treasury! Next stop is dictatorship and both parties are making sure they have enough in place to make it stick!

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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Cyber]
    #2912271 - 07/21/04 12:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Makes sense to me.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Cyber]
    #2912643 - 07/21/04 02:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

It would appear as if we have reached the point where people are voting for the person that promisees the most from the public treasury!



We reached that point years ago.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2912839 - 07/21/04 03:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

... and it keeps getting worse.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Would Bush risk his own country for votes? [Re: Evolving]
    #2912874 - 07/21/04 03:50 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
... and it keeps getting worse.



Sadly.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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