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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,698
Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ * 2
    #28835670 - 07/02/24 06:04 PM (21 days, 23 hours ago)

Amanita muscaria is NOT a 'magic' mushroom. This author gets it ...

Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’
July 2, 2024 - The Conversation
by Colin Davidson*

Psilocybin, a compound found in many types of mushrooms, is an antidepressant with potential use in treating anxiety. Unfortunately, unscrupulous vendors have used these clinical results to sell products made from an unrelated and somewhat toxic mushroom: Amanita muscaria.

In a recent study, researchers at the University of California, San Diego, found a significant increase in interest in this mushroom – noting a 114% rise in Google searches from 2022 to 2023.

So what is this mushroom and why is there cause for concern?

A muscaria or “fly agaric” is found in temperate and sub-Arctic zones across the northern hemisphere. For millennia, shamans from various regions – from Lapland to Siberia – have used the mushroom in their rituals, helping them achieve a mental state similar to that achieved with other psychedelics.

The active ingredients in these mushrooms are muscimol and ibotenic acid, which are entirely different compounds to psilocybin. Today, products containing muscimol, such as gummies, tinctures and capsules, are being sold with vague promises of better health.

The brain contains chemical messengers called neurotransmitters, and muscimol acts on one of these transmitter “receptors” (Gaba-A) to dampen brain activity. Gaba is the brain’s brakes – or in the jargon “inhibitory neurotransmitter”. Consequently, drugs that act on Gaba-A receptors have been used for anxiety, epilepsy and pain – conditions associated with an over-stimulated brain.

Muscimol can be considered to have a similar effect as anti-anxiety drugs known as benzodiazepines (Valium, being an example).

There have been relatively few reported cases of muscimol poisoning from fly agaric mushrooms. Most cases report gastrointestinal upset, but not death.

The other compound found in fly agaric, ibotenic acid, is structurally similar to the neurotransmitter glutamate. If Gaba is the brain’s brakes, you can think of glutamate as its accelerator.

Like glutamate, ibotenic acid can be toxic in high concentrations. In fact, ibotenic acid is used to kill brain cells in rodent experiments where small parts of the brain are destroyed in an attempt to understand what that brain area does.

It is highly unlikely that ibotenic acid has any health benefits. However, it is doubtful whether eating these mushrooms will kill brain cells because, within about an hour of ingestion, most of the ibotenic acid is excreted in the urine.

Muscimol and ibotenic acid have been found to have a relatively low lethal dose. Testing in mice found the LD50 (“lethal dose, 50%”), where half the mice are dead when given these substances orally, to be 22mg and 38mg per kilogram of body weight, respectively. The LD50 is much lower than for many other commonly taken substances: cocaine (99mg/kg), morphine (524mg/kg) and ethanol (alcohol, 3,450mg/kg).

While few deaths from fly agaric have been reported, a recent case described the death of a 44-year-old man after eating these mushrooms. The man had a heart attack about ten hours after eating four to five mushroom caps. Although he was resuscitated, he remained unresponsive and died nine days later.
Comparison with psilocybin

Psilocybin is a compound found in a large variety of “magic mushrooms”, but not in fly agaric. After consumption, the body converts psilocybin to psilocin. Psilocin activates the neurotransmitter serotonin’s 5-HT2A receptors in a similar way to LSD. Meta-analyses, where the data from multiple clinical trials are combined and re-analysed, find psilocybin to be an effective antidepressant.

Harms of therapeutic doses of psilocybin have been reviewed and the most common are headache, nausea, anxiety, dizziness and high blood pressure. They tend to be well-tolerated and resolve within a couple of days.

Taken together then, we can see that fly agaric is not at all similar to psilocybin-containing mushrooms.

While psilocybin has now been shown to have good clinical use, there is no such evidence for fly agaric. Although muscimol has been shown to have some positive effects in animal studies of stroke and some other neurological illnesses, these findings have not yet been replicated in humans.

In most countries, fly agaric, muscimol and ibotenic acid are not controlled substances and people are allowed to grow, pick, buy, sell and consume them. Although consumption is rarely fatal, there are dangers associated with eating them. The practice of selling these products to unwitting consumers, who anticipate health benefits similar to psilocybin, needs to be addressed.

* Colin Davidson -
Professor of Neuropharmacology, University of Central Lancashire

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Offlinesonoramo
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Registered: 02/27/19
Posts: 921
Loc: California, baby!
Last seen: 2 hours, 59 minutes
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: veggie]
    #28835852 - 07/02/24 08:36 PM (21 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

veggie said:
...In most countries, fly agaric, muscimol and ibotenic acid are not controlled substances and people are allowed to grow, pick, buy, sell and consume them. ...




I'm not aware of anyone cultivating and fruiting fly agaric successfully. It's mycorrhizal.

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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,698
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: sonoramo] * 1
    #28835887 - 07/02/24 09:10 PM (21 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

sonoramo said:
I'm not aware of anyone cultivating and fruiting fly agaric successfully. It's mycorrhizal.




Agreed. I've never heard of anyone cultivating A. muscaria either. Maybe it would be possible to spread a liquid culture in a suitable habitat around a host tree. But why even bother? They are plentiful and grow all over. Better to grow real "magic mushrooms" (Psylocybe) any time of year, and avoid fly agaric altogether.

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Offlineash82828
Chin hippy
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/14/24
Posts: 3
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: veggie] * 1
    #28839660 - 07/06/24 06:52 AM (18 days, 11 hours ago)

When are people finally going to abandon this useless mushroom

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Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
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Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 3,719
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
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Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: ash82828]
    #28839810 - 07/06/24 09:24 AM (18 days, 8 hours ago)

It's one of those they think they're taking something the government doesn't like and they can take it, so it's a "Panacea" and they feel so calm and so much better when they've had their muscarine

You think Freud could have even imagined people now? I hope not


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"Tell you what. It seems to me if somethin's ready for you to do somethin, it don't much matter if you're ready or not." - Charlie Utter

No makin funna my pomes!

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 18,657
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: curenado]
    #28839854 - 07/06/24 09:52 AM (18 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

They are plentiful and grow all over.




When is their season? I know of medicinal uses and have a couple of ideas for hosts.

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OfflineDr. Funtime
Wipes Sideways

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 140
Last seen: 20 hours, 25 minutes
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: durian_2008] * 2
    #28839999 - 07/06/24 11:22 AM (18 days, 6 hours ago)

I have been experimenting with amanitas and muscimol isolate lately and find it to be quite interesting. I don't hate it at all, though don't love it either. It is very dissociative and feels like being drunk with none of the good vibes. Not unpleasant at all. If you are a psyconaut you will enjoy experimenting with it, but if you are just looking for a buzz its one to skip.

Passing it as any other drug is fucked though

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 18,657
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: Dr. Funtime]
    #28840017 - 07/06/24 11:33 AM (18 days, 6 hours ago)

Many of us, here, are thinking about headspace, which is more than most normies are thinking about, afaic.

But, this mushroom is said to be a panacea against all ills, when applied externally.

Is it more likely to fruit after Summer monsoons, or in Spring dew?

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Offlinecurenado
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Registered: 04/01/03
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Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: durian_2008]
    #28840564 - 07/06/24 08:16 PM (17 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
Many of us, here, are thinking about headspace, which is more than most normies are thinking about, afaic.

But, this mushroom is said to be a panacea against all ills, when applied externally.

Is it more likely to fruit after Summer monsoons, or in Spring dew?



I always thought it was a winter mushroom and found under pines. I found a big pantherina in north central arkansas under pines years ago.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"Tell you what. It seems to me if somethin's ready for you to do somethin, it don't much matter if you're ready or not." - Charlie Utter

No makin funna my pomes!

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 18,657
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: curenado] * 1
    #28840585 - 07/06/24 08:56 PM (17 days, 21 hours ago)

I saw a yellow to orange, white-spotted Amanita, 1ft across, leaning up near a trailhead, in late Winter / early Spring?

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 18,657
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: durian_2008]
    #28840640 - 07/06/24 09:35 PM (17 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:


In the United States, the fruiting period of Amanita muscaria usually begins in August or September and can continue until November or December. In some areas, such as the Pacific Northwest, the fruiting period may start as early as July.

In Canada, the fruiting period of Amanita muscaria typically occurs from September to November.




Some mushroom species wake up, when it is hot, but Fly Agaric, when it is chilly?

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InvisibleShroomintune
Gentleman Farmer
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 06/04/21
Posts: 273
Loc: Outside of the Asylum
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28841829 - 07/07/24 07:32 PM (16 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
I saw a yellow to orange, white-spotted Amanita, 1ft across, leaning up near a trailhead, in late Winter / early Spring?




That is when I typically see them in the pacific northwest USA.  Frequently under very large/old Douglas Fir trees.

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OfflineCrustacean
Stranger

Registered: 08/27/23
Posts: 3
Last seen: 16 days, 6 hours
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: ash82828]
    #28842448 - 07/08/24 11:41 AM (16 days, 6 hours ago)

Useless? It is beneficial when microdosed. I spoke to a shaman about it's uses...

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OfflineDERRAYLD
Constructus
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 10,851
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 15 minutes, 18 seconds
Re: Interest grows in fly agaric – but here’s why you shouldn’t confuse it with ‘magic mushrooms’ [Re: Crustacean] * 1
    #28843119 - 07/09/24 12:21 AM (15 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Crustacean said:
Useless? It is beneficial when microdosed. I spoke to a shaman about it's uses...




Wow glad you validated with that piece of fact :babypalm:

I've consumed and smoked Amanita many times, it is not useless.

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