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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
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Brainstorm
#28788071 - 05/25/24 08:46 PM (1 month, 1 day ago) |
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I think most of us would agree that the most insidious cancer in American politics is the influence of money on our political process.
What can we do to reduce the corrupting power of money in politics, without inhibiting free speech rights.
Smart people go!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (05/25/24 08:47 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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One thing that I think would have a significant impact on reducing the negative impact of money in politics, is utilizing a system like the Germans have, with their worker-councils, where workers have roughly 50% representation on corporate boards.
This would hopefully have the effect of making the political goals of corporate America more reflective of the goals of common people.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
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Loc: Foreign Lands
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I don't know how you get rid of the corrupting power of money in politics but while I was pondering I remembered something I read years ago in a book by Al Franken, of all people. It may or may not be relevant to the discussion
Quote:
In her book A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous Fourteenth Century, Barbara Tuchman writes about a peasant revolt in 1358 that began in the village of St. Leu and spread throughout the Oise Valley. At one estate, the serfs sacked the manor house, killed the knight, and roasted him on a spit in front of his wife and kids. Then, after ten or twelve peasants violated the lady, with the children still watching, they forced her to eat the roasted flesh of her dead husband and then killed her.
Now, 1358 was a different time so that sort of thing might not be 100% applicable to today's society but you can only back people so far into a corner before they lash out, in any age. Of course, long term, it's not a real solution because it just changes the players rather than the game.
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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As much as I love that solution (And I very much do!)... I'm looking for something more.. long term.
I mean, in truth, we can do all the things... so don't be disheartened, friend!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Psilynut2
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Quote:
Now, 1358 was a different time so that sort of thing might not be 100% applicable to today's society but you can only back people so far into a corner before they lash out, in any age. Of course, long term, it's not a real solution because it just changes the players rather than the game.
Ya the people who torched the dude and made his wife eat him , that's who's in charge of you now. It seems applicable . I don't think the govt we have is less fucked up or evil than the people who would like to overthrow it and change everything .
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Quote:
Psilynut2 said:
Quote:
Now, 1358 was a different time so that sort of thing might not be 100% applicable to today's society but you can only back people so far into a corner before they lash out, in any age. Of course, long term, it's not a real solution because it just changes the players rather than the game.
Ya the people who torched the dude and made his wife eat him , that's who's in charge of you now. It seems applicable . I don't think the govt we have is less fucked up or evil than the people who would like to overthrow it and change everything .
People who seek power are never the ones who should have it, unfortunately.
The solution, then... is to diffuse power.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (05/26/24 11:27 AM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Diffusion of power leads to inconsistent policy which leads to war, at worst, and inefficiency, at best.
The underlying problem isn't money. It's human nature. If we get rid of humans, the problem will be solved.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Brainstorm [Re: Enlil]
#28789864 - 05/27/24 10:35 AM (1 month, 7 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Diffusion of power leads to inconsistent policy which leads to war, at worst, and inefficiency, at best.
The underlying problem isn't money. It's human nature. If we get rid of humans, the problem will be solved.
Well, I was gonna start by getting rid of all the humans I don't like... so I think we are on the same page, roughly.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Brainstorm [Re: Enlil]
#28790002 - 05/27/24 12:12 PM (1 month, 6 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Diffusion of power leads to inconsistent policy which leads to war, at worst, and inefficiency, at best.
Which is why a dictatorship of the proletariat is the best way of doing things, especially given all the problems humans face.
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Milleresque
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Cancel super PACs Cap political donations at $5000 (or less) Publish the full list of donors to any political party/politician.
That’s a start.
Also with less campaign money there’d fe fewer mind sappingly awful advertisements. I don’t know why any politician or party needs so many millions of dollars to figure out what their agenda is—I mean to get elected.
You can have a guy on a skateboard drinking cranberry juice on a highway and it’ll get more views than prime time television. Cost the guy a bottle of juice.
Make politicians savvy again.
-------------------- “Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“ Henry Miller
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Enlil
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Donations are already capped. It's independent expenditures that are the big money. How do you propose to change that?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Milleresque
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Re: Brainstorm [Re: Enlil]
#28790726 - 05/27/24 11:56 PM (30 days, 18 hours ago) |
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I’m Australian enlil. We don’t have such a tomfuckery as “independent expenditures” in our political system to my knowledge.
From what Wikipedia tells me though…it sounds like…unlawful termination?
-------------------- “Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“ Henry Miller
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Quote:
Milleresque said: I’m Australian enlil. We don’t have such a tomfuckery as “independent expenditures” in our political system to my knowledge.
From what Wikipedia tells me though…it sounds like…unlawful termination?
Your politicians are 10 times worse too.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Milleresque
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Milleresque said: I’m Australian enlil. We don’t have such a tomfuckery as “independent expenditures” in our political system to my knowledge.
From what Wikipedia tells me though…it sounds like…unlawful termination?
Your politicians are 10 times worse too.
Ten times worse than your own…too? Two? I’m struggling for your sense in a single statement that reads all reflex and no content. Apologies. Wolf I generally agree with you, and if you think i love, esteem or widely respect hmmm…90% of the Members Of parliament I know of— you’d be wrong.
But I can safely generalise when I state that the vast majority of Australians are grateful they don’t have to endure the US political quagmire; simultaneously fearing and loathing that we are headed in that direction, whether by some fell osmosis/infection or merely the bleeding over of your cultural and political influence.
Anyhow independent expenditures. Perfect example. Reads like malicious and even baseless electoral termination. Enlighten me enlil!
-------------------- “Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“ Henry Miller
Edited by Milleresque (05/28/24 06:31 AM)
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Quote:
Milleresque said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Milleresque said: I’m Australian enlil. We don’t have such a tomfuckery as “independent expenditures” in our political system to my knowledge.
From what Wikipedia tells me though…it sounds like…unlawful termination?
Your politicians are 10 times worse too.
Ten times worse than your own…too? Two? I’m struggling for your sense in a single statement that reads all reflex and no content. Apologies. Wolf I generally agree with you, and if you think i love, esteem or widely respect hmmm…90% of the Members Of parliament I know of— you’d be wrong.
But I can safely generalise when I state that the vast majority of Australians are grateful they don’t have to endure the US political quagmire; simultaneously fearing and loathing that we are headed in that direction, whether by some fell osmosis/infection or merely the bleeding over of your cultural and political influence.
Anyhow independent expenditures. Perfect example. Reads like malicious and even baseless electoral termination. Enlighten me enlil!
I may be off, but from what I have seen of Australian politicians... they are more brazenly corrupt than American politicians. I'm sure my perspective is skewed, due to the fact that the only stories I am likely to be exposed to are the worst of the worst.
Gavin Newsom made a law that all fast food chains had to pay their workers $20/hour (I think), unless that fast food chain also bakes their own bread in-house... one if his best buddies owns Panera bread.
Newsom got checked on that law, and they changed it.
In Australia, I have seen things like... A governor or whatever, is also a real estate developer.. and makes laws that put millions of taxpayer dollars in his pockets, for building overpriced apartment complexes.. I don't remember the specifics exactly, but I just remember I was astounded at how brazenly corrupt a politician can be in Australia.
Me and Enlil... and Falcon... have been round and round over this private expenditure shit... In America, there is no way around it. We have the best free speech protections in the world, and buying commercials/billboard signs is part of that.
It has the unfortunate side effect of corrupting the shit out of our politics, and that's what this thread is about. How do we mitigate that, without harming our free speech rights?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (05/28/24 06:44 AM)
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
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What we saw with Bernie Sanders, is that when millions of people make small donations, they can empower grass roots politicians, and compete with big moneyed interests against the likes of Hillary Clinton.
Since Bernie, every big-time politician has started asking regular voters for small donations. It had a real impact.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Btw... this thread is about optimistic activism..
So the last person we should be requesting an opinion from... is Enlil. He has an uncanny way of taking all of the joy and hope in the world, and smothering it to DEATH.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 68,233
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Milleresque said: I’m Australian enlil. We don’t have such a tomfuckery as “independent expenditures” in our political system to my knowledge.
From what Wikipedia tells me though…it sounds like…unlawful termination?
Independent expenditures are also called "soft money." It's when a person or organization spends money to promote or attack a candidate or policy without giving that money to the candidate or allowing the candidate to dictate the message.
For instance...You are running for local judge. I can give you money for your campaign, but the amount I can give you is very little. You also have to keep track of who gives you money and all of that under the election laws. Maybe I can give you $1,500 max.
BUT...I have millions, and I want you to win...so sure...I give you the $1,500, but I hire 50 people to go canvas the neighborhoods with flyers that I pay to have printed. I buy ads in local papers and billboards. I even advertise on local television and radio. All of this is done by me, and you get no say in what I do.
There is no limit to how much I can spend to get you elected this way.
The issue here is: What law can be passed to limit my independent spending in this way? If the government tells me I can't spread my message, that's limiting my freedom of speech, and this is political speech which is highly protected.
That's what happens in America. Candidates don't get huge donations because they can't. There are contribution limits for donations. The millions of dollars that you're talking about aren't donations to campaigns. They are donations to organizations that independently spend money in favor or against a candidate or policy.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Brainstorm [Re: Enlil]
#28790903 - 05/28/24 07:58 AM (30 days, 10 hours ago) |
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Yep.
And I know that... on it's face.. the only solution is to murder all of the rich people who are doing this.
It's a very appealing option, and one that we can't rule out. However, this thread is about coming up with innovative workarounds to empower the people against this corrupting influence.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Psilynut2
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How do PACs get their money ? Isn't it basically the same way Bernie got his ? By emailing people ?
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