|
Eorlin
Stranger
Registered: 05/21/24
Posts: 2
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
|
The coming up
#28781937 - 05/21/24 02:49 AM (1 month, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Hello.
I am new to this forum, although i have read posts here from time to time before.
To put it short i made some mushrooms a couple years ago and have been on four trips alone in the woods/hills taking anywhere from 2g up to 4g dried.
Its really powerful experiences. When i took the 4g i remember clearly how terrible it was in the coming up phase. I literally thought i was going to die(cold and stiff and consumed by darkness in thought), but then i saw the sun coming through the trees and a warm and beautiful energy, immensively powerful took over. I was like floating down the hill, feeling like the first man on earth, everyhing was beautiful.
I do this i think to learn more about myself.
But there is almost always this pulsing sense of darkness all around me. I guess its the feeling of death and sadness, that deep loneliness in life. I am trying to figure this out and accept it. Do you relate to this? Its most intense in the coming up phase. I guess the mushrooms start to do their thing and sort of kills you of in this stage.
From my 2g trip last weekend(shrooms still potent after 2 years, yey) i came to the conclusion to drop social media and facebook. Its so much negativity and crap filling my mind there.
Do you also think the coming up phase are rough? I am actually quite happy and content in life. 3 beautiful children 3,6 and 9 years old. Economically safe. Divorced from a bad marriage finalky lol. I am kind of on a journey to discover that creative energy of life, godliness, and think the mushrooms are key to this. It certainly opens up the mind.
|
oldfart
Stranger



Registered: 10/19/18
Posts: 46
Last seen: 5 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Eorlin] 3
#28781977 - 05/21/24 04:14 AM (1 month, 6 days ago) |
|
|
I think dropping social media was a good move.
|
Bigworm



Registered: 03/19/22
Posts: 2,219
Loc: Murica
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Eorlin] 1
#28782088 - 05/21/24 07:39 AM (1 month, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Depending on how I consume my mushrooms depends on the roughness of the come up. I like making tea with mine, well steeping the shrooms in hot water for 20 minutes and adding hot coco. If I drink it fast, less then 5 minutes, the come up is fast and rough. If I drink it in 20 minutes or more it's smooth. The "darkness" of a trip is common with cubes, pans, and stones in my experience. I have fought a thought of suicide for an entire trip before. I don't know where that thought came from as I'm happy with my life, but it was a very intense night of tripping and inner fighting. I'm glad the non suicidal thoughts won. I find Natalensis and semperviva to be super friendly trips. Nats make me feel like a child where the world is magical and everything is amazing. Semps are the same but more visual. These experiences are just my experiences and yours can differ. Both are non cube species that are relatively easy to grow and well with the effort. The spores for both can usually be found in the marketplace. The come up with any mushroom depends on the dose, consumption speed, and set and setting. If you got it in your head that you are going to have a rough come up, you'll have a rough come up.
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,300
Last seen: 2 hours, 32 minutes
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Bigworm] 3
#28782118 - 05/21/24 08:04 AM (1 month, 6 days ago) |
|
|
Yeah the come up is the worst part for me, especially with oral DMT. I also find sipping the tea to be best, so i sip the DMT or Psilocin for 10 to 15 minutes, it's much smoother that way compared to slamming back the DMT or Psilocin all at once and having it hit very intensely. Another thing i do is make a 3 to 4 gram dried Lemon Balm leaf tea and add that to the mix, and especially sipping the DMT or Psilocin with the Lemon Balm in the mix, it's so super smooth there's like no intensity during the come up at all.
|
epilectric
light dose


Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 1,390
Loc: Vienna
Last seen: 39 minutes, 14 seconds
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Sabnock]
#28782274 - 05/21/24 10:08 AM (1 month, 5 days ago) |
|
|
Sabnock, how similar do you find DMT to 4-aco-dmt and psilocin at this point?
haven't tried DMT yet but i've had more negative reactions with the other 2 recently... feeling physically and mentally unwell
probably will have the same with the nn-? or does it work very differently?
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,300
Last seen: 2 hours, 32 minutes
|
|
Quote:
epilectric said: Sabnock, how similar do you find DMT to 4-aco-dmt and psilocin at this point?
haven't tried DMT yet but i've had more negative reactions with the other 2 recently... feeling physically and mentally unwell
probably will have the same with the nn-? or does it work very differently?
Ime DMT is basically like Psilocin but with Adrenergic Alpha 1A agonism in the mix as well, which gives DMT it's intensity and sharpness. Once the Adrenergic effect dies down some though it feels more like Psilocin, i've had quite a few Ayahuasca and Psilohuasca experiences where i've felt DMT vibes from Psilocin and Psilocin vibes from DMT. So basically for me DMT is like Psilocin but a bit shorter in effect and way more intense owing to the Adrenergic effect, whereas Psilocin is gentler in comparison lol.
Edited by Sabnock (05/22/24 04:00 PM)
|
Eorlin
Stranger
Registered: 05/21/24
Posts: 2
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Eorlin]
#28782566 - 05/21/24 01:51 PM (1 month, 5 days ago) |
|
|
So good to hear your experiences and opinions are similar. I think i will try a higher dose again in 2 weeks. Feels like i need a little more to sort of "break through", but still it is also scary. Thank you
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,300
Last seen: 2 hours, 32 minutes
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Eorlin] 1
#28782746 - 05/21/24 04:23 PM (1 month, 5 days ago) |
|
|
I'd definitely recommend checking out Psilohuasca, it's more Ayahuasca than mushrooms, but you can definitely feel that mushroomy feeling but the Psilocin becomes more DMT-like but gentler, only thing about Psilohuasca though is it can last about 9 to 12 hours vs the usual 4 to 6 to 8 for mushrooms, however the lengthening of duration is to do with the Psilocin being potentiated by the gut's MAO-A inhibition by the Harmalas, but if you play around with the timing between the Harmalas and the mushrooms, you can get the usual duration of like 6 to 8 hours while still also having a change in the character/nature of the experience leaning towards a Psilohuasca experience. You can also even smoke either freebased Harmala or full spectrum Rue or Caapi extracts, or you can smoke Rue seed itself or even Caapi leaf but Caapi leaf is more mild compared to the Rue seed, and just by smoking the Harmalas you can shift a mushroom experience more towards a Psilohuasca experience, so that's cool. But yeah sipping on the mushroom tea or DMT is a good way to go, same with adding some Lemon Balm tea or some other soothing herbal that doesn't interfere with anything, people think of a Psychedelic as just this one thing ya know, like taking some LSD, or taking some mushrooms, or taking some Ayahuasca, or smoking some Cannabis or smoking some Tobacco, but to me i think there's lots of potential in combinations, and i know some people like candy flip or hippie flip or what not, but mixing different herbs or supplements with a Psychedelic can really flavor it in a variety of different ways, then it's not so scary, but can be even more interesting lol.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 28,069
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Sabnock] 1
#28782860 - 05/21/24 05:46 PM (1 month, 5 days ago) |
|
|
You've been going on about Psilohuasca for so long here on the boards, that I'm guessing there's something to it (ofc there is, I just haven't experienced it for myself is all).
Anywho - In due time I'll give it a shot. Thanks for being persistent with it.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,300
Last seen: 2 hours, 32 minutes
|
|
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: You've been going on about Psilohuasca for so long here on the boards, that I'm guessing there's something to it (ofc there is, I just haven't experienced it for myself is all).
Anywho - In due time I'll give it a shot. Thanks for being persistent with it. 
Oh it's definitely worth it imo. Most of the posts i've seen from others on the subject most often feel like it's "the missing link" and never go back to plain mushrooms again. I mean i like and appreciate all of this stuff, so i like that mushrooms can be taken on their own, i like Psilocin, and no doubt mushrooms can be amazing, but Psilohuasca is just a different kind of Psilocin experience and idk, it just makes things much deeper, there's like a synergy, a balance, a yin and yang effect, they go hand in hand, just like Harmalas and DMT.
It gives you a fuller experience. for example, my last experience using 35mgs of 4-ACO-DMT with 2.5 grams of light roast Rue (although while i like light roast Rue i really recommend the raw Rue but maybe with some extra Harmaine or some light roast added to it in order to even/balance out the Harmine to Harmaline ratio and make Harmine the dominant Harmala rather than Harmaline, then the Rue feels much better ime), and with just 35mgs of 4-ACO i had a full on immersive experience at the same level/magnitude that i get from DMT and Harmalas at the dosages i usually go for, and when it comes to DMT i like more full on effects vs low doses but low doses can be nice too, so it was awesome that the 35mgs of 4-ACO was able to bring me right into the same states that i usually experience with DMT and Harmalas, whereas without Harmalas i've gone up to 50mgs of 4-ACO (and up to 5 grams of mushrooms) and it's never really been all that interesting to me, i mean it's had it's moments for sure but compared to the Huasca's, neither 4-ACO or mushrooms on their own really get me to where i wanna go, the Huasca's on the other hand definitely get me there.
As far as 4-ACO and mushrooms go, ime i seem to get the most benefit from what feels like 7 grams of mushrooms, which perhaps about 70mgs of 4-ACO would be more up my ally, but with the Harmalas you do not need much mushrooms or 4-ACO for a fully immersive experience, it really channels the Psilocin's "energy" into more productive aspects compared to what one would get from mushrooms or 4-ACO on their own. Again though, not to at all downplay mushrooms or 4-ACO on their own, but there is just something special about Harmalas. Even when i've taken 4-ACO with Moclobemide, it got potentiated and lengthened in duration as per usual, but it just felt more like enhanced Psilocin, if that makes sense, whereas with the Harmalas it was Psilohuasca, because the Harmalas definitely contribute a lot to the overall experience, so it's nice to be able to explore the different varieties of effects and flavors one can have by way of mixtures and such.
|
Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 3,129
Last seen: 1 hour, 10 minutes
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Sabnock]
#28783198 - 05/21/24 10:02 PM (1 month, 5 days ago) |
|
|
Hey Sabnock, when you say light roast, do you mean that you’re roasting your seeds in the oven for conversion of alkaloids and flavour?
What temperature is ideal and for how long?
And do you recommend a 50/50 mix of raw and roasted?
|
Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 3,129
Last seen: 1 hour, 10 minutes
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Bardy]
#28783203 - 05/21/24 10:06 PM (1 month, 5 days ago) |
|
|
I liked the Psiloausca experience overall, but it gave me a really tight feeling in my chest which made me worry a bit. Shrooms by themselves don’t give me that.
But the visuals were great. Green and golds and blues and reds in flowing wave patterns that were dancing with the music I was listening to, and this was only 1g of cubensis. It felt speedy compared to mushrooms by themselves as well I think.
|
Soul Flight
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/23
Posts: 334
Last seen: 10 days, 2 hours
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Eorlin] 1
#28783656 - 05/22/24 09:31 AM (1 month, 5 days ago) |
|
|
I tend to lay in bed with my eyes closed for the come up. I see it like I am a scientist collecting data on my own body. I notice the signs and symptoms and changes. I like to notice the come up. It is like an controlled experiment and I isolate the variables like caffeine or other drugs. I tend to listen to guided meditations and maybe those keep me focused or distracted.
|
epilectric
light dose


Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 1,390
Loc: Vienna
Last seen: 39 minutes, 14 seconds
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Sabnock]
#28784080 - 05/22/24 03:44 PM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sabnock said: Ime DMt is basically like Psilocin but with Adrenergic Alpha 1A agonism in the mix as well, which gives DMT it's intensity and sharpness. Once the Adrenergic effect dies down some though it feels more like Psilocin, i've had quite a few Ayahuasca and Psilohuasca experiences where i've felt DMT vibes from Psilocin and Psilocin vibes from DMT. So basically for me DMT is like Psilocin but a bit shorter in effect and way more intense owing to the Adrenergic effect, whereas Psilocin is gentler in comparison lol.
hmm adrenergic is that like coffee? ^^ i like caffeine, sharpness sounds not so bad, psilo is so gooey. but yea intense is generally too intense for me
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,300
Last seen: 2 hours, 32 minutes
|
|
Think more like Ephedra/Ephedrine amplified by MAO-A inhibition alongside a Psilocin-like Psychedelic effect, that's closer to what it's like i'd imagine, i haven't tried Ephedra/Ephedrine personally, yet, but it indirectly activates the Alpha Adrenergic receptors by increasing the activity of Noradrenaline, so it would have similar Adrenergic properties imo to that of DMT, or as another example think of like Phenylephrine or some other Alpha 1A Adrenergic agonist alongside MAO-A inhibition, which they say is contraindicated but that's not really so seeing as how DMT is primarily an Alpha 1A Adrenergic agonist and it's consumed just fine alongside MAO-A inhibition, but then again i'm not sure of the safety of other Alpha 1A agonists.
Caffeine on the other hand doesn't come close to the magnitude of terror/panic that can occur with an oral DMT come up lol. They usually say you can feel like you're dying with Psychedelics, but DMT can straight up feel like dying, not just ego-wise but physically it really does feel like DMT is released by the body at death or during near-death states, and it's that Adrenergic feeling that really contributes to that, so if you feel like you're dying with Psilocin, you'll really feel like you're dying with DMT lol, hence why i prefer to smooth it out a good bit because it's generally just really intense stuff.
Edited by Sabnock (05/22/24 04:32 PM)
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,300
Last seen: 2 hours, 32 minutes
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Bardy]
#28784134 - 05/22/24 04:20 PM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bardy said: Hey Sabnock, when you say light roast, do you mean that you’re roasting your seeds in the oven for conversion of alkaloids and flavour?
What temperature is ideal and for how long?
And do you recommend a 50/50 mix of raw and roasted?
Pretty much, although while i have done it in the oven i now do them in a pan on the stove at like medium low to medium heat, and stir them as they're roasting. When it comes to a light roast Rue, you want to roast them so that the Harmaline content breaks down but the Harmine content is spared, so roast the seeds until the color of the seed goes from the natural black/brown color to a lighter brown/tan color and the smell (especially when the seed is powdered) will resemble peanut butter, that's when the light roast is done, if the roasting goes beyond a light roast into a medium or dark roast territory though the Harmine too will break down which only leaves the background compounds, which the background compounds can be active in their own way too ime, but as far as roasted Rue goes light roast (with the Harmine) is best, and roasting will indeed improve the taste. But by itself i find the light roast to be rather bland compared to the magick of the raw Rue, and raw Rue is ime best. One can of course mix the raw and light roast together, personally i find adding just a single gram of light roast Rue to the raw Rue to make a difference, so like say 2 to 3 grams of raw Rue with 1 gram of light roast has been my go to.
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,300
Last seen: 2 hours, 32 minutes
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Bardy]
#28784147 - 05/22/24 04:30 PM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bardy said: I liked the Psiloausca experience overall, but it gave me a really tight feeling in my chest which made me worry a bit. Shrooms by themselves don’t give me that.
But the visuals were great. Green and golds and blues and reds in flowing wave patterns that were dancing with the music I was listening to, and this was only 1g of cubensis. It felt speedy compared to mushrooms by themselves as well I think.
The only time i've experienced chest tightness which freaked me out, was when i took Magnesium Oxide a few times during the Aya, and i experienced like chest tightness and heart palpitations, i was also taking Zinc (Gluconate) at the time as well and noticed it caused me some weird ass "Zinc Zaps" (like brain zaps, but weirder, more jarring, different, and Zinc-related) while on Aya, and i noticed the same thing from Zinc Picolinate with Harmalas and oral Tryptamine (Tryptophan taken an hour into the Harmalas/gut MAO-A inhibition for oral activation of Tryptamine from Tryptophan), and experiencing the Zinc Zaps while on Aya while also experiencing chest tightness and weird heart palpitations certainly freaked me out lol, after that i learned not to take Magnesium or Zinc until after i came down, like taking it before bed, whereas if i take them or some other things earlier in the day they can affect the Aya later at night. So if you're consuming anything like Magnesium or you're eating a meal that contains Magnesium sometime before taking Harmalas+DMT or Psilocin, that would probably explain the chest tightness imo/ime. The only other thing i can think of in that department would be like the increase in Noradrenaline from the MAO-A and COMT inhibition of the Harmalas, which a light roast Rue would help take away the COMT inhibition since that comes from Harmaline, then the only rise in Noradrenaline would be from the overall MAO-A inhibition, so the light roast would be less Noradrenergic compared to raw Rue. Again though one can add some Lemon Balm or some other herbal to this stuff in order to reduce a lot of the uncomfortable/undesirable side-effects, ime.
|
Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 3,129
Last seen: 1 hour, 10 minutes
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Sabnock] 1
#28784297 - 05/22/24 07:16 PM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
|
|
I’ve been thinking about ordering a bag of lemon balm for a while. Gonna do that now.
And yeah it’s very possible that I took a magnesium and zinc supplement that day, so that could be it.
Thanks again for all the information, you’re a wealth of knowledge!
|
epilectric
light dose


Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 1,390
Loc: Vienna
Last seen: 39 minutes, 14 seconds
|
Re: The coming up [Re: Sabnock] 1
#28786262 - 05/24/24 01:01 PM (1 month, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sabnock said: Think more like Ephedra/Ephedrine amplified by MAO-A inhibition alongside a Psilocin-like Psychedelic effect, that's closer to what it's like i'd imagine, i haven't tried Ephedra/Ephedrine personally, yet, but it indirectly activates the Alpha Adrenergic receptors by increasing the activity of Noradrenaline, so it would have similar Adrenergic properties imo to that of DMT, or as another example think of like Phenylephrine or some other Alpha 1A Adrenergic agonist alongside MAO-A inhibition, which they say is contraindicated but that's not really so seeing as how DMT is primarily an Alpha 1A Adrenergic agonist and it's consumed just fine alongside MAO-A inhibition, but then again i'm not sure of the safety of other Alpha 1A agonists.
Caffeine on the other hand doesn't come close to the magnitude of terror/panic that can occur with an oral DMT come up lol. They usually say you can feel like you're dying with Psychedelics, but DMT can straight up feel like dying, not just ego-wise but physically it really does feel like DMT is released by the body at death or during near-death states, and it's that Adrenergic feeling that really contributes to that, so if you feel like you're dying with Psilocin, you'll really feel like you're dying with DMT lol, hence why i prefer to smooth it out a good bit because it's generally just really intense stuff.
never tried ephedra, just amphetamines which i basically really like but try to avoid them
on my 4-aco-dmt overdose (40mg nasally), i thought i might die but that was just because my heart beat so fast and i had numb sensations in my hand and in my face. i thought this is like a heart attack but it was just fear of dying, not literally feeling like dying
i guess DMT is just way too intense for me. i have a very sensitive stomach and would probably faint or die in a rollercoaster. once when i was a kid they had to turn off a funfair machine with a wagon that just went up down right left along ~5 meters rather quickly. everybody sat in there comfortably, laughing. i screamed please turn it off so they turned it off and i stepped out....
later i found other funfairs, namely free tekno parties
Edited by epilectric (05/24/24 01:06 PM)
|
Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,300
Last seen: 2 hours, 32 minutes
|
|
Quote:
epilectric said: i guess DMT is just way too intense for me
Maybe, but again, there's ways around that lol. Honestly though, Psilohuasca is probably the gentler route, and so as far as the Huasca goes Psilohuasca is just fine, the only real reasons i'd recommend exploring DMT is pretty much because of it's unique receptor binding profile compared to Psilocin, and it's lack of tolerance, as well as it being natural/endogenous to the body. That's why for DMT i really recommend the sipping for 10 to 15 minutes, with or without 3 to 4 grams of Lemon Balm tea in the mix, there's literally no intensity at all, which is weird considering the magnitude/power of the intensity of DMT as it is, you wouldn't think such a thing could be "tamed", but one thing i've learned is that Aya can be many different things and many different ways, and Psychedelics like DMT and Psilocin are easily flavored by admixture plants and other things being in the mix with it, and i really do feel like admixtures with Psychedelics is an extremely under-explored and little known about way of working with Entheogens, i think the only people who really do that would be Aya practitioners in South America since Aya is all about admixtures, whereas people take just mushrooms or take just LSD or take just Mescaline/Cacti, when there's a whole wide world of variety and flavor that is possible to have with Psychedelic compounds or really any compounds for that matter, chemical synergy is the name of the game.
I think the main thing that makes DMT so intense would be it's rapid onset and transient effects/duration, so like, DMT is more of a neuromodulator or neurotransmitter, whereas say LSD is more of a stable "drug" or substance. And so with DMT's speed and transient effects/duration, the come up intensity hits intensely, but if you sip on it, it stretches things out and the Alpha 1A Adrenergic receptor activation isn't nearly as pronounced with a smoother/gentler onset induced by the sipping.
|
|