Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   OlympusMyco.com Olympus Myco Polypropylene Grow Bags   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
OfflineTrypto-Fan
Warrior
Male


Registered: 10/01/14
Posts: 1,629
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 hours, 58 minutes
Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. * 1
    #28779584 - 05/19/24 06:49 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Schizophrenics are incredibly spiritually gifted individuals, who have not mastered their abilities.

Society is the mental illness.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Trypto-Fan] * 2
    #28779685 - 05/19/24 08:15 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Yes I can see this. A couple times I brought up a similar idea to some psychiatrists I know, that: if society were perfectly accepting and accommodating of the "schizophrenic" individual, there would be no illness or disorder.

In other words, the paranoia of the individual and the people around him/her operate in a feedback loop, escalating the fear between each to an intolerable level, and those with greater societal power will dominate and crush into submission the one with less power, who is then deemed "ill" and treated very patronizingly and paternalistically.

But the psychiatrists weren't too keen on the idea lol.

I will say, though, that when someone is running buck naked through the streets of a normally quiet neighborhood at night, screaming their head off... they probably shouldn't be surprised if they are picked up and brought to a hospital.


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Edited by Blue Cthulhu (05/19/24 08:23 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 3
    #28779699 - 05/19/24 08:24 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Also:

Joseph Campbell — "The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight."


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTrypto-Fan
Warrior
Male


Registered: 10/01/14
Posts: 1,629
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 hours, 58 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28779754 - 05/19/24 09:02 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:


In other words, the paranoia of the individual and the people around him/her operate in a feedback loop, escalating the fear between each to an intolerable level, and those with greater societal power will dominate and crush into submission the one with less power, who is then deemed "ill" and treated very patronizingly and paternalistically.

But the psychiatrists weren't too keen on the idea lol.






That's exactly it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?
Male

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,966
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Trypto-Fan] * 2
    #28779780 - 05/19/24 09:35 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Trypto-Fan said:
Schizophrenics are incredibly spiritually gifted individuals, who have not mastered their abilities.

Society is the mental illness.




Sorry but this kind of mentality is not helpful to schizos
Paranoid delusions of the schizo kind are no joke and your attitude about them is not a healthy mindset

I was talking to someone last night who has had a schizophrenic person pull them into their life and my best advice was to walk away from that person and leave them alone because they can't be of any help and will only be putting themselves at risk of at least some serious bullshit drama

Some of you young mush heads are a little to idealistic for yours or anyone else's own good

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleyoosername
Lab Member
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/28/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Terra Fracta
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Trypto-Fan]
    #28779782 - 05/19/24 09:37 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I was once put into a situation where I was exposed to a fair amount of mercury, the kind that won't show up on blood, urine, or follicle tests.  Within 4 days I developed a permanent psychosis.  When I finally went to the hospital, they took a blood test for mercury, determined it was negative, then proceeded to try to convince me that I was suffering from "delusions of mercury poisoning" :facepalm:.

"I feel like it's not me, it's the world that's sick
We're given everything we need and we commoditize it
We consume, we destroy, like we're parasitic
Science tells us that it's suicide and still we commit

I'm not sick, we are sick, we are standing on a cliff
In the name of progress, we jump off the precipice
I'm not sick, I'm the virus, you're the virus, hypocrite
How can you sit there with that smile on and tell me that I'm sick?"



--------------------
O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 18,116
Last seen: 4 days, 2 hours
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Trypto-Fan] * 3
    #28779934 - 05/19/24 11:07 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Trypto-Fan said:
Schizophrenics are incredibly spiritually gifted individuals, who have not mastered their abilities.

Society is the mental illness.




it may be unrealistic to place everyone who presents with psychosis in the same camp
this goes for a psychiatrist
as well as for the lay person

I remember first discovering Stanislav Grof when I was ~14 years old, wandering the Psychology section of Powell's Bookstore in Portland Oregon. The first book of his I read had me intrigued. I read the majority of his work before I was 18, at the time needing to travel several hundred miles to get to a bookstore that carried his works. What a difference the internet has made! I then went to college for Psychology and remember writing many papers on psychedelic assisted therapies. I presented scholarly works from researchers like Roland Griffiths in small lab settings for review by fellow academics.

In my personal life, my maternal Uncle was diagnosed with Schizoaffective disorder in his teens after an LSD trip but never went on medications. He would hold a job for about a year and then get paranoid and flee. He spent most of his life on the move, never being able to settle in one place. Many times he would call to "say his goodbyes" as he was certain he was going to be killed in the next few months. Usually it was the mafia out to get him. These goodbye calls went on for a decade. All the while he would dip in and out of communication, disappearing to unknown locations only to call down the line with another goodbye.

Several times he ended up in the hospital. As emergency contacts the family got the calls. These were the times when he was stationary enough and the family knew where he was located to go pay a visit.

Between my early experiences with Stanislov Grof, my background in psychology, and my direct familial experience with someone experiencing delusions, I have a particular interest in this. I did not dedicate my life to studying a broad swath of people. But I have spent time reading the works of those who did. There is largely a mutual agreement that there are those who can be helped without medication and those who cannot. I can assure you that many have had this feeling. The feeling that schizophrenia is not a mental illness. And some have even been those working in psychiatry. Carl Jung for example went through his own psychosis and used his insights to form his theories and treat patients. He's quite famous. And there have been several others. Including Stanislav Grof who fought to get a "Spiritual Emergency" diagnosis placed into the field of psychiatry as an alternative. Some in the field developed their own hospitals to treat in novel ways. Creating environments in which patients do not need to be medicated, restrained, or treated as insane. But rather to be nurtured and supported during what is often a very scary process.

There are also those outside the medical field such as Ram Dass who had to confront psychosis during his many interactions. Little known stories unless you go digging for them. One that sticks out in my mind is Ram Dass trying to sooth an individual who began having hallucinations. The man bit Ram Dass and at that point Ram Dass relented to having the man removed from the retreat.

I'm not going to recount the findings of all these individuals who have spent time trying alternative methods. But I will summarize it the way I began: not everyone who presents is the same.

Please do not make the uninformed mistake of assuming everyone who presents with symptoms is presenting something you understand. Even those who did not make such an assumption ended up being caught off guard repeatedly.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerobhr
Come on die young!
Male

Registered: 05/04/24
Posts: 188
Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
Last seen: 3 hours, 33 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Kickle]
    #28780099 - 05/19/24 01:19 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I agree and I disagree.

I think all of the mental conditions, except of course the ones where your brain is simply xbpt like dissociative identity disorder, have their uses and we need every one of them.

HOWEVER, schizophrenics are all fucked up. I agree, they are experiencing something spiritual, but their mind is not pure, their mind is confused. Schizophrenia is the most dramatic of the mental conditions. It has it's purpose but we really really need to keep an eye on you.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 12,020
Last seen: 4 hours, 8 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: robhr]
    #28780103 - 05/19/24 01:23 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I think the demons doing the tormenting are keeping them under supervision.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28780633 - 05/19/24 08:43 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

IM the supervisor :devil:

si=3X43OT8iUG1FH0iL


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 3,255
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 41 seconds
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Trypto-Fan]
    #28782135 - 05/21/24 08:15 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Trypto-Fan said:
Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:


In other words, the paranoia of the individual and the people around him/her operate in a feedback loop, escalating the fear between each to an intolerable level, and those with greater societal power will dominate and crush into submission the one with less power, who is then deemed "ill" and treated very patronizingly and paternalistically.

But the psychiatrists weren't too keen on the idea lol.






That's exactly it.




Well for that causative Factor and manifestation?
But I think at least half of the schizophrenics now are meth heads and the Damage they do is almost unbelievable. And maybe they had problems that they can blame somebody else for but then they amplify it 100 times with death powder and tell everybody "the meth makes the voices be quiet" until they start coming down and ruin something or somebody for good.
I know this is supposed to be a sympathy and feel good thread for schizophrenics and I guess you should just go ahead and use it that way


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

"The Creator's Glory is the Truth, and the magic mushroom is the proof" - DebE

No makin funna my pomes!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 3,255
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 41 seconds
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28782141 - 05/21/24 08:22 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
I think the demons doing the tormenting are keeping them under supervision.



No less possible than these other theories....and a whole can of worms too

I'm no expert or cut out for it but almost everybody now has dealt with a dramanoid, neurotic or psychotic. horrible for everybody


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

"The Creator's Glory is the Truth, and the magic mushroom is the proof" - DebE

No makin funna my pomes!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 3,255
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 41 seconds
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28782160 - 05/21/24 08:44 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
Quote:

Trypto-Fan said:
Schizophrenics are incredibly spiritually gifted individuals, who have not mastered their abilities.

Society is the mental illness.




Sorry but this kind of mentality is not helpful to schizos
Paranoid delusions of the schizo kind are no joke and your attitude about them is not a healthy mindset

I was talking to someone last night who has had a schizophrenic person pull them into their life and my best advice was to walk away from that person and leave them alone because they can't be of any help and will only be putting themselves at risk of at least some serious bullshit drama

Some of you young mush heads are a little to idealistic for yours or anyone else's own good



Post-of-thread

But this is no serious thing, its playing around with theories idealistically, you are right and the caution is good advice. I have a huge sweet dog I never wanted, because the paranoid religious lady abandoned everything and they were going to kill the dogs.
I am the executor for my State supervisor who is in prison because nm just doesnt care where they end up and believes the major cause is dope. But the point is, I have a 3 year old boy that I've had since he was 6 months old because of paranoia or whatever his technical dx is.
I have had the police called on me twice by paranoids, one heard "me and my friends" making fun of her from a distance and wanted me "kicked off my land" (native alcoholic with delusions) and the other is a big old bullshit hippie about my age that nobody visits who hates me for "maga" and says that I "mess with his hot water in the night with no one can see!" but he hates guys - that have a wife or family - and drives everybody away talking mushroom shaman stuff (and we've all taken mushrooms). He is our towns only "protestor" and all I really did was say to him "Who you got to potest? everybody here is good to you?" and now I am the white debbil and he, the white guy, is going to rally all the colors and make whites pay.

That's just three people in our little town that everybody has had to cater to and suffer for because of this condition wherever it comes from and whatever it is in each one of them. Mental health numbers are off the charts


and little Oso is just as smart or smarter than his father and an amazing little hellion I have become so attached to, because we never wanted him to be angry, insecure or lack approval and what happened to his father is not going to happen to him.
We think harsh experience and self expectation pushed his dad over the edge, so we are trying these kids "well treat them better and they won't break?" theory. I fill his life with experiences that are positive, empowering and "about him" until hes old enough to start showing us and going his way like they do. Just had to say how great he is and how grateful i have been to have him.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

"The Creator's Glory is the Truth, and the magic mushroom is the proof" - DebE

No makin funna my pomes!

Edited by curenado (05/21/24 08:51 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleyoosername
Lab Member
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/28/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Terra Fracta
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: curenado] * 1
    #28782224 - 05/21/24 09:29 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

curenado said:
Mental health numbers are off the charts




We live in a low level chemical cocktail of ever-increasing environmental toxins.  Some of these toxins can cross the blood brain barrier, some are nearly impossible to get rid of and will accumulate in you body over time, some cause damage to your DNA progressively over generations, and some act as toxin catalysts, amplifying the toxicity of other toxins.  Mercury fits all of these categories, and has been widely used in dental implants for over 100 years.

I can't speak for everyone (and certainly not on behalf of meth heads), but I'm convinced that in my situation, the two primary factors that contributed to the development of my condition were chronic/acute mercury exposure and contracting lyme disease as an infant.

I'm also convinced that toxins like mercury are affecting everyone to some degree, and that most people are not capable of noticing the effects these toxins have on them until it becomes a problem.


--------------------
O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineACTSmokey
The Fool - 8 bit

Registered: 07/13/22
Posts: 131
Last seen: 6 hours, 26 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Trypto-Fan]
    #28782841 - 05/21/24 05:32 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Sadly you (the original poster) have not met someone with schizophrenia. They deserve our sympathy yet they also deserve our support more than anything. That's why they have mental health centres or somewhere they can go to jettison their psychosis, for a time anyway. Just don't think they are well and society needs to bend to accept them, they need support more than our sympathy.


--------------------
“That which is above is like to that which is below, and that which is below is like to that which is above.” - The Emerald Tablet (200-800 AD).

"My heart hath followed all my days, something I cannot name." - Don Marquis.

"Wow, things sure look different now. How much of this shit did I take?"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 3,255
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 41 seconds
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: yoosername]
    #28783064 - 05/21/24 08:05 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Quote:

yoosername said:
Quote:

curenado said:
Mental health numbers are off the charts




We live in a low level chemical cocktail of ever-increasing environmental toxins.  Some of these toxins can cross the blood brain barrier, some are nearly impossible to get rid of and will accumulate in you body over time, some cause damage to your DNA progressively over generations, and some act as toxin catalysts, amplifying the toxicity of other toxins.  Mercury fits all of these categories, and has been widely used in dental implants for over 100 years.

I can't speak for everyone (and certainly not on behalf of meth heads), but I'm convinced that in my situation, the two primary factors that contributed to the development of my condition were chronic/acute mercury exposure and contracting lyme disease as an infant.

I'm also convinced that toxins like mercury are affecting everyone to some degree, and that most people are not capable of noticing the effects these toxins have on them until it becomes a problem.



Agreed. I was born to a world where the tapwater didn't need filtered and swimming didn't cause poisoning or lethal infection.
Swimming was a good term to use


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

"The Creator's Glory is the Truth, and the magic mushroom is the proof" - DebE

No makin funna my pomes!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 413
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Trypto-Fan] * 2
    #28783661 - 05/22/24 09:34 AM (1 month, 4 days ago)

If you have Schizophrenia, you can try talking to the voices. For, sometimes, it is just a
weak heavenly ear. That is the buddhist term for hearing supernatural beings.

I don't claim that this is always the case. I agree with TheStallionMang, real psychosis
isn't cool.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetree frog
eats bugs
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 1,702
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 10 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: AnattaAtman]
    #28784065 - 05/22/24 03:17 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

I took a few semesters of human services classes and while it's definitely true that in some cultures and in some religions people with schizophrenia are thought of as being spiritually gifted, we still live in a materialistic culture that doesn't offer much support for that point of view.

I'd love to see a world where neurodivergence is celebrated and people were more inclusive of different ways of being.  That said, we don't live in that world for the most part and as an ND person I do have to put a lot more work into my mental health in order to survive in our culture.

So, I guess what I'm saying is this is a general issue with how we take care of people who are different, rather than something specific to schizophrenia.  And, modern psychotherapy models are moving towards being bio-psycho-social, meaning they look at biological, psychological, and sociological factors.  What you're pointing out is the sociological one.  Lack of community inclusiveness of ND.

Also, I identify as multiple without it feeling disordered (as an aside, someone mentioned DID and some of the psychedelic therapy models lean into everyone being multiple in order to help people find better self understanding).  My PTSD on the other hand has seriously disordered my life.  And, made me extremely sensitive to the emotional states of others (unfortunately, this can get reactive when dealing with anger and similar emotions that trigger my trauma).


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #28784175 - 05/22/24 05:15 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

^ Nice points. There are two studies by the WHO back in the day that showed that people with schizophrenia in third world countries had better outcomes than those in first world, despite not having access to the medications that supposedly are essential to treatment.

There are different theories as to why those studies showed those results, but one theory is that many other countries have better family and community supports naturally in place (think: extended family systems living in close proximity), whereas first world countries are more likely to be obsessed with the nuclear family and extended members are flung all over the country.


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Patient
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 567
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28784288 - 05/22/24 07:07 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

I was diagnosed with Schizophrenia and put on the depot shot after a period of heavy drug abuse. I was put in psychwards twice for 5 weeks at a time. I believe its a gift and a curse, my life is much better now that i have stablized but i still have to deal with it everyday and take my medication to control the mania/delusions.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: The Patient]
    #28784336 - 05/22/24 07:43 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

I feel for ya. I should clarify, I actually work in the psychiatric field, and have seen many people stabilize and feel a lot better with an effective antipsychotic medication.

I just think there's plenty of nuance to the conversation, and it's not a one size fits all approach that is best.

I've also seen a number of people go through psychosis that needed higher doses of an antipsychotic initially, but were eventually able to wean down to the lowest possible dose, and do well on that.


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Patient
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 567
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28784445 - 05/22/24 10:01 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

Yeah awesome i wish schizophrenia wasnt so heavily stigmatized nobody really understands it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerobhr
Come on die young!
Male

Registered: 05/04/24
Posts: 188
Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
Last seen: 3 hours, 33 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: The Patient]
    #28784477 - 05/22/24 11:22 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

Quote:

The Patient said:
Yeah awesome i wish schizophrenia wasnt so heavily stigmatized nobody really understands it.




Mental illness in general is too stigmatized. You automatically become a charity case. Oh pat the schizophrenic on the head the schizophrenic said something smart and sane. Be soft and kind and gentle to the poor schizophrenic you might make him upset. Treat him like a broken little baby and call it "respect." All it is is a brain going a little haywire and they just need to get a handle on it. All they want to be is real people who get treated like real people. They have a condition and it most certainly has it's merits but it comes with a few little... Inconveniences. It's just a condition it doesn't need to become everything you are and everything you will ever be.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Patient
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 567
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: robhr] * 1
    #28784594 - 05/23/24 04:26 AM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Yeah you can say that but you haven't been institutionalized and givin strong meds against you're consent and you obviously have not reached rock bottom before. You can treat me like any other normal person im not special just because of my condition, its a big part of who i am and i recognize that.. its nothing to be ashamed about.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetree frog
eats bugs
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 1,702
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 10 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: The Patient]
    #28784624 - 05/23/24 05:49 AM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Being ND is a blessing and a curse.  We can't all see the world the same, that leads to monoculture and likely death if other natural systems are any indication.

But, being different in a way others can't see creates a false expectation that ND people are the same and have the same abilities.

It's a way we put ourselves and each other in boxes.

Learning to accept that I am different has been a major breakthrough for me in understanding myself better, being more realistic about my expectations for myself, as well as being able to identify what care is appropriate for me as well as the likely outcomes for that care.

In my case child hood abuse changes the architecture of your brain from a very young age and I can manage symptoms but I will never be neurotypical.  There was no baseline from before I was traumatized to go back to.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 3,255
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 41 seconds
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: tree frog] * 2
    #28784888 - 05/23/24 11:08 AM (1 month, 3 days ago)

? Monoculture is actually the way species heal and thrive? That's why they each had one that fit them.

And it's not the crying or the running nekked or the singing la la la la songs out the window at all the beautiful people that aren't there,
It's the broken glass, the flying cue balls, the accusations of being satan, the animals, theft, vandalism, the house and all the other damage as well as the emotional fatigue and by-proxy enslavement that people "stigmatize".

Most people are good with "I love you" once in awhile

But I do have to say that over the last decades everything except the medicines has gotten better maybe they have ones that last longer and do less damage but I don't think there's an end to it until the combination holistic therapy of diet psychotherapy, physiotherapies, OT & etc makes the vast majority of drugs temporary, because we know they aren't permanent.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

"The Creator's Glory is the Truth, and the magic mushroom is the proof" - DebE

No makin funna my pomes!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetree frog
eats bugs
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 1,702
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 10 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: curenado]
    #28784897 - 05/23/24 11:15 AM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Nature thrives on diversity.  Monocultures are great for growing crops until a pathogen wipes out all your genetically identical clones.

Anyway, the emotional instability is difficult.  It's difficult for both me and my partner, which is why I ask for help from people I trust (i.e. my therapist).

On that other side of the equation I don't get much understanding from NT people.  Because they assume that I am like them.  Which tends to lead to frustration.  Yelling and thankfully no throwing things but sometimes storming out of the house and saying fuck you I'm not talking to you until you can fucking hear me.

Granted, I don't have a psychotic condition like schizophrenia.  And I know from having a schizophrenic celly how difficult it can be to care about somebody with schizophrenia.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerobhr
Come on die young!
Male

Registered: 05/04/24
Posts: 188
Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
Last seen: 3 hours, 33 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: The Patient]
    #28785028 - 05/23/24 01:11 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Quote:

The Patient said:
Yeah you can say that but you haven't been institutionalized and givin strong meds against you're consent and you obviously have not reached rock bottom before. You can treat me like any other normal person im not special just because of my condition, its a big part of who i am and i recognize that.. its nothing to be ashamed about.




I think you're misunderstanding what I am saying as the proper response to "Schizophrenics just want to be treated like people" couldn't possibly be "Yeah you can say that but..."

Unless it was understating with "inconveniences" but that would also be a misunderstanding as the understatement was meant to be very obvious.

Oh was it it doesn't need to become everything you are or everything you ever will be? The implication that all you need to do is get a handle on it? Well, as a person who got a handle on it... You should know all it is is a thing you need to get a handle on. Again, though, a bit of an understatement, I understand it is the most challenging condition to get a handle on.

Edited by robhr (05/23/24 01:16 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,550
Last seen: 2 hours, 10 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: robhr]
    #28785722 - 05/24/24 02:12 AM (1 month, 2 days ago)

At the beginning of these mental diseases you don't understand how it happened..

But by the end you are a magus with supernatural powers with peace of mind and a grip on reality..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 3,255
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 41 seconds
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28787139 - 05/25/24 07:57 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
At the beginning of these mental diseases you don't understand how it happened..

But by the end you are a magus with supernatural powers with peace of mind and a grip on reality..




In a mental institution, a prison or on probation?
The guy I know looks out a dam window when he can, wont see us till sep if he does.
People need natural powers and i believe the more they develop the real, the less they need the unreal

What supernatural powers?
:lolsy:
those come right before the wreckage


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

"The Creator's Glory is the Truth, and the magic mushroom is the proof" - DebE

No makin funna my pomes!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleyoosername
Lab Member
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/28/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Terra Fracta
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: curenado]
    #28787188 - 05/25/24 08:46 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Quote:

curenado said:
What supernatural powers?
:lolsy:
those come right before the wreckage




Can confirm, I was on the verge of enlightenment before my life went to shit.  Seems I've retained some of the knowledge I gained from it, but it's as if I no longer see the truth of it, so the wisdom it once held is lost on me.

Sometimes, the development and progression of this disease makes me feel like I'm actually a mouse named Algernon.


--------------------
O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetree frog
eats bugs
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 1,702
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 10 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: yoosername]
    #28787375 - 05/25/24 10:59 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

I found the dharma in prison, lost my faith over COVID.

Getting back into the practice though.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 12,020
Last seen: 4 hours, 8 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: tree frog]
    #28787721 - 05/25/24 03:53 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

My bud figured he was picking up radio signals from the fillings in his teeth,then he threw my phone and his out the window of a moving car, then he wanted to move to that place in Virginia where radios are not allowed due to their interference with delicate dish receivers, then he figured homeless people were camping behind the house.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,550
Last seen: 2 hours, 10 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: curenado]
    #28788191 - 05/25/24 10:22 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Quote:

curenado said:
Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
At the beginning of these mental diseases you don't understand how it happened..

But by the end you are a magus with supernatural powers with peace of mind and a grip on reality..




In a mental institution, a prison or on probation?
The guy I know looks out a dam window when he can, wont see us till sep if he does.
People need natural powers and i believe the more they develop the real, the less they need the unreal

What supernatural powers?
:lolsy:
those come right before the wreckage



Lol, yes.. I was in a mental hospital for 3 different stays within a year.. so almost spent 10 months inside..

Even though its not jail.. it can be hard time..

When I started doing lots of drugs the second time.. then it became fun..

Otherwise I would ruminate on when I would actually be released..

I started working out in their gym.. so that was beneficial.

Also Was enlightened in D ward.. my second stay..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,550
Last seen: 2 hours, 10 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28788195 - 05/25/24 10:23 PM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Also.. I think,people with schizophrenic tendencies would in the past become shamans..

I just thought of this: what about weed shamanism?  Could weed be a sacrament for shamanic use?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 12,020
Last seen: 4 hours, 8 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28788861 - 05/26/24 01:38 PM (1 month, 10 hours ago)

Perhaps someday we can see into your headspace via virtual reality to see for ourselves the interactions you have with the 'other side'.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 3,255
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 41 seconds
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28788904 - 05/26/24 02:16 PM (1 month, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Also.. I think,people with schizophrenic tendencies would in the past become shamans..

I just thought of this: what about weed shamanism?  Could weed be a sacrament for shamanic use?




Well one, weed, Shamanism and schizophrenia are all very different things and they can be all mixed in one person, if that person wants to think they're a shaman. It's just if the rest of the tribe think they are a shaman.... I think maybe you mean Oracle. that's different. birth defects and crazies that didn't get killed for it might have been used for oracles, but that's all.

But I'm pretty sure mostly in history they bashed their skull in with a rock after they ran them down for a witch or contagious and it was only in the last three centuries? that they started locking people up in asylums and experimenting on them to call it treatment.

Weed is officially a holy plant a sacred thing for most (in history) it appears in global medicine and in the Middle East it's a part of the temple oil and Temple incense in Bible. Everybody feels a little better and if they're by their self and of a positive or relaxing mind, they go right to heaven in their thinking don't they?


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

"The Creator's Glory is the Truth, and the magic mushroom is the proof" - DebE

No makin funna my pomes!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 12,020
Last seen: 4 hours, 8 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: curenado]
    #28788963 - 05/26/24 03:11 PM (1 month, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

Weed is officially a holy plant a sacred thing for most (in history) it appears in global medicine and in the Middle East it's a part of the temple oil and Temple incense in Bible. Everybody feels a little better and if they're by their self and of a positive or relaxing mind, they go right to heaven in their thinking don't they?







Might be a connection.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 3,255
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 41 seconds
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28789445 - 05/26/24 10:56 PM (1 month, 44 minutes ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

Weed is officially a holy plant a sacred thing for most (in history) it appears in global medicine and in the Middle East it's a part of the temple oil and Temple incense in Bible. Everybody feels a little better and if they're by their self and of a positive or relaxing mind, they go right to heaven in their thinking don't they?







Might be a connection.




Hey that's not bad I've been a monk a long time and I didn't necessarily connect that
But the temple oil they were used to it is listed as an ingredient and in the incense too I'll go get those passages and come back and paste it in:

Holy anointing oil, as described in the original Hebrew version of the recipe in Exodus (30:22-23), contained over six pounds of kaneh-bosem, a substance identified by respected etymologists, linguists, anthropologists, botanists and other researchers as cannabis, extracted into about six quarts of olive oil, along ...Sep 24, 2019
https://komornlaw.com › kaneh-b...
Kaneh Bosm: The Hidden Story of Cannabis in the Old Testament


"Kaneh bosm" means "sweet cane" and the romans spelled it "kannaboos" later latinized to "cannabis" - I grocked on that myself and looked it over in the hebrew. They put a topical on and also walked in clouds of hashy incense smoke at church (temple) it was a God commanded ingredient of their ecstatic worship.

Now that everybody knows all the good it does bodies and blocks flu/covid its even easier to recognize it as a "balm" and a gift for more than humans, like people did for 12,000 years and even here before later fda/dea laws. New doctors in the US got a drug sample box from Merck pharmaceuticals that had opium, pot and cocaine for compounding.

The substances were better known, better respected and only used by a small% before being regulated and criminalized, which started in the urban environments as population grew.

I didn't mean to write a book I just wanted to point out that everything negative in the extreme about them has only been around 100 years or less

*and in an incidental way I'm one of those linguist scholars, because I went all the way to Twin Cities to sit in a courtroom and testify that the "Radical Rabbi" was telling them the truth. She was an original Shroomery vendor at the time, so it was back there a bit. We all went ragged for legalization and it was 15 years later.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

"The Creator's Glory is the Truth, and the magic mushroom is the proof" - DebE

No makin funna my pomes!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineellamush
Amanita #1 Fangirl
I'm a teapot User Gallery
Registered: 07/31/22
Posts: 681
Last seen: 1 hour, 54 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: Trypto-Fan]
    #28790778 - 05/28/24 01:51 AM (29 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Trypto-Fan said:
Schizophrenics are incredibly spiritually gifted individuals, who have not mastered their abilities.

Society is the mental illness.





It is a mental illness.
Society/psychiatry has a view of "normality" by which standards are made to compare different mentalities.
"Normal" is not schizophrenic, not depressed, not BPD, not anxious chronically.

So mental illness is a divergence from this "normality".

But as most of us probably know, as mental illness is very common (1/5 people are quoted to suffer some form of mental illness in Australia). Having a label to diagnose an illness is helpful insofar as treating the person for the illness, via therapy, drugs or teaching the person the things that may trigger them to these deviations of "normal". The label is mostly unhelpful for general society to use to understand a person, as it convalesces a bunch of stereotypes and makes it easy to judge people.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 12,020
Last seen: 4 hours, 8 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: ellamush]
    #28790851 - 05/28/24 06:03 AM (29 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

It is a mental illness.
Society/psychiatry has a view of "normality" by which standards are made to compare different mentalities.





Deviant sexual orientation is entering 'normalcy'. In the world of Harry Potter the schizophrenic crowd could be considered advanced.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetree frog
eats bugs
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 1,702
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 10 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Schizophrenia is not a mental illness. [Re: ellamush]
    #28790923 - 05/28/24 08:14 AM (29 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

ellamush said:
Quote:

Trypto-Fan said:
Schizophrenics are incredibly spiritually gifted individuals, who have not mastered their abilities.

Society is the mental illness.





It is a mental illness.
Society/psychiatry has a view of "normality" by which standards are made to compare different mentalities.
"Normal" is not schizophrenic, not depressed, not BPD, not anxious chronically.

So mental illness is a divergence from this "normality".




It's inability to adapt mentally to the environment.  A more stressful, predatory, unsupportive environment is more difficult to adapt too.  Biological conditions can make it more difficult as well as a person's natural disposition.

Hence, the bio-psycho-social model that human services and mental health care workers are moving towards in the U.S.  There is a recognition, at least on a professional level, that mental illness is as much lack of social supports (ableist social structures) as it is biology or psychology.

I agree mostly with the rest of what you said about stigma and labels often being unhelpful.  Most of this isn't coming from mental health workers though some of it certainly does, especially from old school and narcissistic practitioners.

That said, I called a relative out on giving me a bunch of advice on how to live my life without ever educating herself on my condition.  So, labels can be helpful when used skillfully.  Like, if she had actually card to learn about what it's like for me so she could actually be helpful.

Often though, they're not used this way.  And the stigma sucks.  Especially for people with psychotic or personality disorders.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   OlympusMyco.com Olympus Myco Polypropylene Grow Bags   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* New mental powers MystikMushroom 1,548 7 06/07/06 01:02 AM
by MystikMushroom
* Is it normal to go through a spiritual type of "cycle"
( 1 2 all )
MOTH 6,252 21 01/05/06 10:39 PM
by KidgardFromSRQ
* Need a shamans advice
( 1 2 all )
thedudenj 2,748 22 05/28/06 12:15 AM
by MystikMushroom
* sun staring
( 1 2 all )
OldWoodSpecter 4,179 29 07/11/06 07:20 PM
by musicturkey
* Heaven is coming to earth *the sequel*
( 1 2 3 4 ... 51 52 )
zorbman 178,766 1,020 03/15/18 06:53 PM
by BrendanFlock
* Christianity, US government and the biblical end of times ... is it NOW ?
( 1 2 3 all )
MAIA 10,757 56 02/12/07 12:17 PM
by Lightningfractal
* statements of belief vs. claims of knowledge...
( 1 2 all )
MikeOLogical 5,396 27 10/12/05 08:34 PM
by Moonshoe
* My religion is called Panensatanism RedNucleus 2,220 14 04/18/06 09:27 PM
by The_Hobbit

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, DividedQuantum
606 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 12 queries.