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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,278
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#28757614 - 05/01/24 11:16 AM (1 month, 25 days ago) |
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Fixed the link...
Cool will be awesome if it sprouts from leaves like psychotria
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp



Registered: 10/09/21
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
#28771095 - 05/11/24 08:23 PM (1 month, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
modern.shaman said: Fixed the link...
Cool will be awesome if it sprouts from leaves like psychotria
How have your plants been shaman? Any interesting growth showing up? From what I can see I also think that these might take more than one year to flower. What I thought was going to be a the downward-pointing flower stalk/inflorescence just ended up being more growth on the primary stalk/node. The tallest plant is about 4.5 feet tall give or take.
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,278
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#28772012 - 05/12/24 03:35 PM (1 month, 14 days ago) |
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Mine are not that large my largest maybe 2.5-MAX 3 feet I'll need to check. I have too many in a somewhat small pot so stunting a bit. I also trimmed back the older leaves only leaving the 5 newest leaves.
I am getting new sprouts on the stem where I cut and some near the base. I've started to water 2x a week since starting to dry out faster. IDK if these are short day flowering or what but little cultivation info on these online.
EDIT: The largest is around 2-2.25 feet.
Edited by modern.shaman (05/12/24 03:39 PM)
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Mycoplex
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex]
#28773568 - 05/13/24 10:15 PM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mycoplex said: The tallest plant is about 4.5 feet tall give or take.
I measured my tallest plant tonight and it's just a bit over 3 feet so my original estimate was way over, in reality they are not that much taller than yours shaman.
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Longtimenosee


Registered: 12/05/22
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex]
#28777419 - 05/17/24 11:39 AM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Soma was Ephedra!
Still this plant you are growing seams really cool!
Soma is a mysterious drug of Vedic Hinduism in India. It has its analogous to the Haoma of the Zoroastrian Aryan people of the Middle east. The shared text of Zoraoastrianism and Hinduism originated from the ancient Aryan people. The ancient Aryans are widely believed to originated from the Sintashta culture that occupied an area in present day Kazakhstan and Russia around 2000B.C.. Soma/Haoma was a drug of religious importance, but its identity is a subject of debate. Clues about this mystery drug could be gleaned from the religious texts. One such clue is that the urine of a person that has consumed soma/Hoaoma has the same properties as soma/Haoma. Another is that the plant or fungi lacked leaves and had fleshy stalks. The effects of Haoma are described in the Yasna 9.22, as granting "speed and strength to warriors, excellent and righteous sons to those giving birth, spiritual power and knowledge to those who apply themselves to the study of the nasks”. Almost every known drug has been proposed as Soma/Haoma. Most theories have gained little to no traction. Perhaps the most famous theory is that it was Amanita muscaria. It is known that Amanita muscarias active ingredient passes unchanged into urine, for this reason mainly it was assumed to be the source of Haoma /Soma. The second strongest argument is that Soma is described as leafless and fleshy, Amanitias do not have leaves and are fleshy. The Vedas do not describe roots, stems, flowers, or fruit of Soma, for that reason Wasson who proposed the Amanita theory assumed that Soma did not have these features. However, the Vedas only mention that it is leafless and do not specify that Soma lacks any of those other features. The other problem is that Amanita muscaria is usually sedating opposed to stimulating and has no traditional use for aiding childbirth. Finally, there is the problem that Amanita is rare to not present in areas inhabited by Zoroastrain and Hindi people. The most convincing candidate for Soma/Haoma is Ephedra. Ephedrine the active ingredient, also passes unchanged into urine. Ephedra plants also lack traditional leaves and is mostly non-woody which could explain the description of fleshy stems. The effects of Ephedra line up perfectly with Soma/Haoma. Ephedra is stimulating thus could, enhance awareness, alertness, increase speed, increase strength, and be good for studying texts, ephedrine also aids in birthing and is still used today to prevent and treat maternal arterial hypotension and to avoid intrapartum fetal asphyxia. Ephedra grows in the region occupied by the Sintashta culture and the Aryan Zoroastrian people. The most convincing point is that during the Zoroastrian Haoma ceremony Ephedra is used (Zoroastrianism: An Introduction By Jenny Rose). As well as the fact that Zoroastrian people of Iran use Ephedra and refer to it a homa (Aitchison, 1888). When the Aryan people migrated to Northwestern India they left the range of Ephedra plants. They referred to the land that Soma is from as Sharyanavat which means ‘abounding with reeds’ and Ephedra has an appearance similar to reeds(https://www.vedanet.com/the-secret-of-the-soma-plant/#:~:text=Sharyanavat%2C%20the%20main%20Rigvedic%20Soma,the%20best%20of%20the%20Somas, Vamadeva Shastri, June, 13, 2016, The Original Soma: One Plant or Many). Beacause Soma/Homa was unavailable they used other plants in its place, such as Sarcostemma acidum called “Soma creeper” which appearing leafless and resembles Ephedra(Singh, N. P. (1988). Flora of Eastern Karnataka, Volume 1. Mittal Publications. p. 416. ISBN 9788170990673.). Given all this Soma/Haoma was almost certainly an Ephedra species and not Amanita or some other plant.
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,278
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Longtimenosee]
#28777631 - 05/17/24 03:14 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Did you watch the OP video? Near the end he gives a pretty good reasoning for his SOMA plant suggestion. In the end it doesn't matter much
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp



Registered: 10/09/21
Posts: 901
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
#28777895 - 05/17/24 07:47 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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After getting a few leaves to root successfully on their own, still no luck in seeing the leaf create a new shoot but I'll be patient. The rooted leaves look decent but no sign of them developing something.
Edited by Mycoplex (05/17/24 07:53 PM)
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,278
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] 2
#28786459 - 05/24/24 04:23 PM (1 month, 2 days ago) |
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In the past I got caapi and other leaves to root but they never sprouted... maybe it works thought don't give up on them.
I came upon this website with more reports from Juilian. Includes another 3 trip reports and I'm pretty excited to have this plant. I'm doing an extract just to see but my material is still young so maybe a bust.
Whoever wants to kill spare time... pretty interesting read. https://julianpalmerism.com/phyllodium-soma/
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp



Registered: 10/09/21
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
#28787410 - 05/25/24 11:27 AM (1 month, 1 day ago) |
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I finished the whole article, shaman. Nice read and it's great to see more of his perspective on the plant, before this I had just seen the first talk in the OP.
In this article, he also links to a copy of Trout's Notes for Desmodium which was a nice find too.
He mentions fermentation in the article, but to just make the basic tea itself does it require anything other than seeping the leaves in hot water? He makes the claim that the leaves don't keep well and that they should be used after harvesting, but I think we showed even in this thread that they can seemingly keep.
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,278
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#28787604 - 05/25/24 01:59 PM (1 month, 1 day ago) |
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Yea they keep well and the texture after dry is leathery and not brittle and doesn't break easily. Unless this trait changes when more mature.
So I did an extract with 19g and had a tiny yield I'd guess around 1mg if that. My plant is still only 6 months old. Smells similar to the usually plastic flower smell but much more floral and less plastic. Even with a defat came out as a yellowish/red wax when scraped... too small a yield to clean.
I'm most interesting in the amounts he shared trying and using less abstract description of the effects he got. In the future I hope to experiment more with this plant but I find it quite attractive as a corner plant. Growth is interesting.
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Mycoplex
Sporocarp



Registered: 10/09/21
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
#28819473 - 06/19/24 07:54 PM (7 days, 4 hours ago) |
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Hey modern have you had any new discoveries with your plants? How are they reacting to the fall season in your region? My tallest plant is now over 5.5 feet fall but still has no sign of flowering at all. It started focusing on side branches so now it's one really tall stem with 2 medium branches growing out horizontally.
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,278
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex]
#28819818 - 06/20/24 06:18 AM (6 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Yea mine are starting quite a few side shoots near base of the leaves... I had a new sprout in my community pot. Its growing better in the slightly cooler temps since gets quite toasty in the summer. Same as many cacti are growing faster now... I suspect they save the excess energy/sunlight in some form and are now growing.
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