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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Moore lied! (again)
    #2877603 - 07/11/04 10:41 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlineblu3
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 2,546
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Phred]
    #2878052 - 07/11/04 02:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

sounds to me that its Daschles word against moore


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Invisibleshriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Phred]
    #2878115 - 07/11/04 03:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

this is just a case of normal male behavior. some men lie about how many girl they have been to bed with, moore lie about how many senators he has hugged. its no big deal. i dont think it goes into the category lie either,


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: shriek]
    #2878251 - 07/11/04 04:20 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

some men lie about how many girl they have been to bed with

Um, about 623...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,756
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Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Phred]
    #2878270 - 07/11/04 04:28 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sure more about this situation will surface in the coming months. Let's not jump to conclusions.

My question is, is were there witnesses or photographs that can coroborate either side of the story. If cameras were present at the time of the supposed hug, then we could settle this for sure.

Someone had to have seen the hug take place or not take place.






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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Phred]
    #2882561 - 07/12/04 04:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

suckers....


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlineel_duderino
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Registered: 04/22/04
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Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Phred]
    #2919506 - 07/23/04 07:15 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

meh! Michael Moore is great! and pretty damn funny! Too bad he's a lying shmuck that makes up facts and statistics and edits and cuts, takes things out of context etc... in true propaganda style. I like his side of the argument but unfortunately it's still propaganda. A Spin master he is, working with humour and manipulating your emotions....

but he's a funny guy still!

btw i haven't actually looked at the link u posted :smile:


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OfflinePhishgrrl
Walking in thetall trees...
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Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Phred]
    #2921267 - 07/23/04 06:29 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

hmmmmmmm shall we count how many times "the president" has lied? About serious things? Naaaaaahhhhhhh I don't have the time.


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Once in awhile you can get shown the light

In the strangest of places if you look at it right...



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Offlineshaman2b
Just anotherfreethinker
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Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: el_duderino]
    #2921416 - 07/23/04 07:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well, el duderino, you obviously can't identify spin.... it's all that the Bush crime family has been slinging since they got into office. 

Do your homework.  :mad2:

While you're busy being distracted by tabloid news, they're stealing our democracy.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,718
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Phishgrrl]
    #2921581 - 07/23/04 07:52 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Phishgrrl said:
hmmmmmmm shall we count how many times "the president" has lied? About serious things? Naaaaaahhhhhhh I don't have the time.



Surely you meant to say.... shall we count how many times people have claimed he lied?

Funny how those that claim he did so can't back up those claims.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2921600 - 07/23/04 07:55 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Main Entry: 3lie
1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression

http://www.pantsonfire.net/lies.htm


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,718
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Tao]
    #2921625 - 07/23/04 08:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:rotfl:

So yet again, you couldn't just say... Yup, those claims can't be backed up.

Damn shame.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Tao]
    #2921697 - 07/23/04 08:26 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

2 : to create a false or misleading impression

while i have no desire to get into this little discussion, i gotta say that i think that definition is a little off. it looks like i'm gonna have to...

for something to must be a lie, there must be willful dishonest intent. one must either say something one knows to be untrue, or make a commitment one willfully fails to follow up on.

when stephen hawking claimed that information about the matter in a black hole never leaves it, a claim contested by other physicists and which he recently retracted, he was not lying. when aristotle said that the earth was the center of the universe, he was not lying.

merely "creating a false or misleading impression" is not a lie. for it to be a lie, one must do so with dishonest intent. if we examine michael moore's track record, it is clear that on several occasions he has not only created a "false or misleading impression" but also known that he was as he was doing so. he created a false impression... with deliberate dishonest intent. he lied.

whether bush intentionally mislead the nation (about iraq in particular) is something i really can't tell ya. considering the political fallout of finding no WMD's, the information provided to him before the war, and his own (lack of) intellect, i'd say that there's a damn good chance that he believed everything he told the public about the case for war against hussein. however, i really don't know, and neither does anyone else who is out there claiming that "bush lied".


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,718
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: ]
    #2921723 - 07/23/04 08:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
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Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: ]
    #2921900 - 07/23/04 09:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Logic applied with an unavoidable conclusion.  Yet, it's conservatives who are mindless. :rolleyes:


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2922014 - 07/23/04 10:10 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

back what up? I never said anything.

and MM, youre beef is with Merriam-Webster, not me.

my point is that just because he adds a passing-the-buck sort of qualifier "intelligence officials say...." does not mean that he is not trying to decieve.

anyway how much more in your face does it need to get that he was trying his damnest to conjure up a reason for going into iraq because he didnt want to tell the public his real reasons (neo-con fantasies) because they're too hard too defend. Iran always presented more of a threat both in building nuclear facilities and in harboring/funding terrorists than Iraq ever did. Yet he purposefully never mentioned evidence they had about iran but kept stressing iraq. oh yeah, and what about N. Korea?


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 841
Loc: In my pants
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2922354 - 07/24/04 12:40 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Phishgrrl said:
hmmmmmmm shall we count how many times "the president" has lied? About serious things? Naaaaaahhhhhhh I don't have the time.



Surely you meant to say.... shall we count how many times people have claimed he lied?

Funny how those that claim he did so can't back up those claims.




Topic: Afghanistan
Speaker: Bush, George - President
Date: 10/11/2002


Quote/Claim:
"We're helping Afghanistan to claim its democratic future, and we're helping that nation to establish public order and safety...We will stay the course to help that country develop " [Source: White House Web site]

Fact:
"This effort may fail. It will not fail because of a lack of desire, a lack of commitment by millions of Afghans, or a lack of bravery....Instead, it may fail because the administration has been unwilling to recognize the magnitude of the threats which we face and to direct sufficient political, military and financial resources to overcome them." - Testimony by Mark L. Schneider, Sr. Vice President, International Crisis Group, to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on ?Afghanistan ? Continuing Challenges,? 5/12/04

Topic: Civil Liberties
Speaker: Bush, George - President
Date: 10/28/2003


Quote/Claim:
?We welcome Muslims in our country.? [Source: White House Web site]

Fact:
In August of 2002, the Justice Department promulgated a regulation that required men residing in the United States on temporary visas from 25 predominately Muslim countries to meet ?special registration requirements.? Since that time, over 82,000 Muslim men have been photographed, fingerprinted and subjected to interrogation. - Registration and Monitoring of Certain Non-immigrants, 67 Fed. Reg. 155, 8/02 and Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, Assessing the New Normal 38, 9/03

Topic: Classified Information
Speaker: Bush, George - President
Date: 10/9/2001


Quote/Claim:
"We can't have leaks of classified information. It's not in our nation's interest." [Source: White House Web site]

Fact:
"Bob Woodward said President Bush gave two reporters 90 minutes, often speaking candidly about classified information." - Providence Journal, 4/10/02

Topic: Compassion
Speaker: Bush, George - President
Date: 1/28/2003


Quote/Claim:
"Americans are doing the work of compassion every day -- visiting prisoners, providing shelter for battered women, bringing companionship to lonely seniors. These good works deserve our praise; they deserve our personal support; and when appropriate, they deserve the assistance of the federal government.? [Source: White House Web site]

Fact:
"The 2003 Bush Budget proposed cutting $88 million out of HHS Community Service programs ? most of which is a $75 million cut (24%) cut to the Community Service Community Services Block Grant Program. Bush is also requesting a $90 million (20%) cut to AmeriCorps, which includes USA Freedom Corps, and an overall $39 million cut to the Corporation for National and Community Service." - House Democrats Web site

Topic: Economy - Deficit
Speaker: Bush, George - President
Date: 2/8/2004


Quote/Claim:
"The budget I just proposed to the Congress cuts the deficit in half in five years." [Source: White House Web site]

Fact:
White House estimates neglect inevitable costs. The President's proposal to cut the deficit in half deliberately "omits a number of likely costs" such as the continued cost of Iraq and its own defense spending plans. All told, he is proposing roughly $3 trillion in new tax cuts and spending, including $1 trillion to make his tax cuts permanent, $70 billion for the Alternative Minimum Tax, and $50 billion more for war in Iraq. The result is that the deficit is predicted to be "in the range of $500 billion in 2009" ? not even near half of what it currently is. - CBPP, 1/16/04; Washington Times, 1/20/04; Reuters, 2/2/04

Topic: Economy - Jobs
Speaker: Bush, George - President
Date: 3/11/2004


Quote/Claim:
"Over a million jobs were lost because of the [9/11] attack." [Source: White House Web site]

Fact:
"White House officials were unable to point to any specific information that supports a direct link between massive job losses and the attacks." While one White House spokeswoman claimed that the President's statements were "supported by the Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)," that agency's associate commissioner "said BLS has not compiled any specific study on jobs which were lost specifically because of the Sept. 11 attacks." - Bureau of National Affairs, 3/22/04

Topic: Economy - Jobs
Speaker: Bush, George - President
Date: 2/23/2004


Quote/Claim:
"At home, obviously, the economy and jobs are on my mind. I know they're on yours, as well. I'm pleased that the economy is growing -- 5.6% unemployment is a good national number." [Source: White House Web site]

Fact:
"There are the 8.7 million unemployed, defined as those without a job who are actively looking for work. But lurking behind that group are 4.9 million part-time workers who say they would rather be working full time ? the highest number in a decade. There are also the 1.5 million people who want a job but didn't look for one" because the economy had become so bleak. "Add these three groups together and the jobless total for the U.S. hits 9.7%." Even the official unemployment rate is misleading. While "the unemployment rate fell to 5.7 percent from 5.9 percent, that was because more people gave up looking for work." All told, the February 2004 drop "was wholly due to a contraction in the labor force, which declined by 309,000." As the New York Times noted, "compared with previous economic recoveries, job growth remains well below par." - LA Times, 12/29/03; Knight-Ridder, 1/10/04; EPI, 1/9/04; NY Times, 2/22/04

Shall I go on?
Once is a mistake.
Twice is really not paying attention.
Five times is a character flaw.
Ten times... When does one become a "liar"?


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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InvisibleGnuBobo
Frilly Cuffs Extraordinaire
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Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 43,754
Loc: Charisma
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: GernBlanston]
    #2922412 - 07/24/04 01:03 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

    Who else around here thinks the uber leftists are as bad (okay, nearly) as the fucking little bitches on the evangelical right?  When you take unreasonable positions, or unsubstantiated positions, you give liberalism or radicalism a bad name.  Seriously.  The fucking problem with Bush is that he thinks he's doing right, in all honesty.  This is far worse than someone out to lie to us. 
      Christ.  My local "liberal activist" group is run by militant lesbians so leftists they exclude people that don't exclude conservatives from any thought whatsoever.  It's pathetic.  What happened to intellectual liberalism and hearing people speak their mind?
      I know Moore is trying to unseat Bush.  I wholeheartedly support him in this effort.  I'm no fucking Democrat or Kerry lover, either.  I just think he went about his "editorial" in a sloppy way.  That's it. 
      All the same, the current administration can rot in hell.  And all the Texas evangelicals.  They suck balls.  My balls.  And I'm greek and hairy. 
      Peace and love.  Take 'er easy everyone! :grin:

GB


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OfflineJPZ
lost in mexico
Registered: 06/28/04
Posts: 193
Loc: Monterrey
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: GnuBobo]
    #2922655 - 07/24/04 02:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Who else around here thinks the uber leftists are as bad (okay, nearly) as the fucking little bitches on the evangelical right? When you take unreasonable positions, or unsubstantiated positions, you give liberalism or radicalism a bad name. Seriously. The fucking problem with Bush is that he thinks he's doing right, in all honesty. This is far worse than someone out to lie to us.
Christ. My local "liberal activist" group is run by militant lesbians so leftists they exclude people that don't exclude conservatives from any thought whatsoever. It's pathetic. What happened to intellectual liberalism and hearing people speak their mind?
I know Moore is trying to unseat Bush. I wholeheartedly support him in this effort. I'm no fucking Democrat or Kerry lover, either. I just think he went about his "editorial" in a sloppy way. That's it.
All the same, the current administration can rot in hell. And all the Texas evangelicals. They suck balls. My balls. And I'm greek and hairy.
Peace and love. Take 'er easy everyone!





:thumbup: :lol:

What I don't get is this.  If Moore lied, so what?  He wears his heart on his sleeve.  We know he wants Bush out.  He's not a politician.  Limbaugh, Hannity et al lie, distort and crap on all the time (often, I might add, in a more violent way).  At least Moore is funny.  Why does everyone get so worker up about him.

The leader of a country, however, should never lie, especially about life or death situations.  As mushmaster said above, I don't think Bush intentionally lied. He really forced himself to believe what his advisors told him.  I can't help thinking of him as a puppet.  I mean, the guy believes in the creation theory, what wouldn't he believe...

His admin. on the other hand....dodgy.


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I do declare, I can float in the air.

"If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up."


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
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Last seen: 4 years, 28 days
Re: Moore lied! (again) [Re: Phred]
    #2922676 - 07/24/04 03:07 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:yawn:


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