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automan
blasted chipmunk


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
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SVO diesel
#2876850 - 07/10/04 09:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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i learned something interesting a few days ago.you can run a diesel motor with straight veggie oil (SVO). you do need a small regular or bio diesel tank to start with and run before shut down. basically, the veggie oil wont fire via compression unless the motor is up to temp. so, you run diesel until the motor is at operating temp, then switch to regular old veggie oil. basically, you go to a fastfood restaurant and get some used grease (SVO) and put it in a barrel. after a few days, psyphon of all but the bottom 4" into another barrel. repeat a few times to get all the major particles out. install a filter inline with your new veggie fuel tank to catch the small particles. finally, instal a tank switch in the cabin of the vehicle and you're set.
i am actively seeking a diesel car right now to test this with. i'll let you guys know the results.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: automan]
#2876991 - 07/10/04 11:09 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Interesting, I didn't know you could run SVO through a diesel. Let us know how it works.
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zeta
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3,972
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It's very straightforward to turn SVO into biodiesel
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automan
blasted chipmunk


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: zeta]
#2877337 - 07/11/04 02:35 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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indeed it is, but it is safer and easier to just run the SVO.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: automan]
#2877461 - 07/11/04 05:40 AM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm aquainted with someone who has done so using used veggie oil. Works pretty well but when driving behind him you get very hungry. Smells much like french fries.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: automan]
#2879349 - 07/11/04 07:41 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Something else to add to the off-grid project
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: trendal]
#6038670 - 09/07/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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hey automan, did you ever want to go through with this project?
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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sever
Where am I?
Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 161
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
#6039738 - 09/07/06 08:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know a guy who has an old bullet style bus that can start up on and run on straight vegetable oil. He doesnt need a seperate tank at all.
During the late spring/summer/early fall the engine fires up just on the veggi oil. Pretty amazing.
Diesel engines these days are probably near impossible to fire up on straight veggi, even on the hottest days, so a seperate take with diesel is required (or the extra step of making biodiesel), but this old bus starts up fine. When it get colder out, he cuts in regular diesel to thin it out.
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daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: automan]
#6042465 - 09/08/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thats what the whole principle of Biodiesel is, that you can run it straight. Most of the times it will require filtering to remove all the particles that might clog up the injectors or fill your cylinders with junk. Sure you have to have regular diesel to get it going, but it is supposedly cheaper, however, when anyone opens a restaurant, there is usually a company in every town that will empty the grease traps for free, because it is illegal to just dump the old oil down the drain. Another prohibitive factor is people who live in colder areas. If it gets cold enough, diesel will turn into a slush because of its low freezing point.
I'm sure you could go to a fast food restaurant and just steal the oil from their grease trap, but I'm sure someone else comes out regularly to empty it for them.
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Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL


Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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not really... biodiesel is refined svo, you need lye and a fairly large set-up to clean it up/make it useable.
the whole principle of svo is that you can run it straight
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daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Krishna]
#6044475 - 09/09/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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So whats the point? I don't remember veggie oil being any cheaper.
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Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL


Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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non-reliance on petroleum?
when really examined from an economic point of view, bio-diesel is not feasible as a sustainable petroleum substitute. it certainly is an interesting project for an individual to function "off the grid", but that's about it, in my mind..
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iateshaggy
i haxor 360s


Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 4,707
Loc: 612 Warf Avenue, next to....
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Krishna]
#6044848 - 09/09/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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one cool thing about diesel vehicles, they run fuel through engine compartments and circulate it back through the gas tank to prewarm the fuel. also, the german u boats ran off of soybean oil. back then diesel was considered a useless by-product of crude oil.
-------------------- You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true. I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.
I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 1,948
Loc: Samsara
Last seen: 11 years, 13 days
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: automan]
#6047154 - 09/10/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've always wondered if it would be possible to render biomass fuel from human waste.
-------------------- Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities. -Stephen Hawking
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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actually you can use human waste to feed algae that can be turned into bio-diesel........
and also collect methane form human waste as well
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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iateshaggy
i haxor 360s


Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 4,707
Loc: 612 Warf Avenue, next to....
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
#6048293 - 09/10/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeh, i also saw the other day that the ice caps have methane that they are releasing at an increasing rate. they said it was a bad thing caused by global warming but i was thinking, hey, good thing, energy source!!! go global warming giving us energy.
-------------------- You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true. I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.
I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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not really, there is no economically viable way to capture the methane being released from the caps, as there isnt any to collect it from landfills, as well as cow farts.....
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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Lana
Head Banana


Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
#6053266 - 09/12/06 12:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't mean to hijack this thread but have any of you read about thermal depolymerization - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization
I was reading up on this a year ago when I heard of a company using turkey guts to make gas!
http://www.designnine.com/news/?q=taxonomy/term/19
"A three year old Philadelphia project to turn waste into gas, oil, and minerals has been so successful that the EPA and private investors are putting money behind expansion of the effort. One of the new sites will be in Missouri, near a turkey processing plant. The energy recycling plant will turn 200 tons of turkey guts into 10 tons of gas and 600 barrels of oil. The gas is used to power the plant, which is 85% efficient."
Lana
-------------------- Myco Supply - Distributors of Mycological Products http://www.MycoSupply.com The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies. Visit us online or call us toll free
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Actually, bypass fuel is used to cool the injectors. It goes back to the tank so that new, cool fuel can be taken in with each injection. It would take a long time to heat a tank of fuel with bypass alone. SVO cars need to have all kinds of heaters and stuff installed.
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Lana]
#6053302 - 09/12/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lana said: I don't mean to hijack this thread but have any of you read about thermal depolymerization - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization
I was reading up on this a year ago when I heard of a company using turkey guts to make gas!
[url=http://www.designnine.com/news/?q=taxonomy/term/19]http:// www.designnine.com/news/?q=taxonomy/term/19[/url]
"A three year old Philadelphia project to turn waste into gas, oil, and minerals has been so successful that the EPA and private investors are putting money behind expansion of the effort. One of the new sites will be in Missouri, near a turkey processing plant. The energy recycling plant will turn 200 tons of turkey guts into 10 tons of gas and 600 barrels of oil. The gas is used to power the plant, which is 85% efficient."
Lana
yeah i was actually reading a 50 some page thread about that in the biodieselnow forums last night.
apparently some of their numbers were based on some bad data, but its still a viable option.... very interesting tech. http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=829
crazy stuff
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 1,948
Loc: Samsara
Last seen: 11 years, 13 days
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
#6054213 - 09/12/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zippoz said: actually you can use human waste to feed algae that can be turned into bio-diesel........
and also collect methane form human waste as well
I always conceptualized it as growing mold and using that for biomass. Is it effective at all? I just think that its cool that somebody has already done this. I'm currently trying to get into biotech. I think that this would be a great field to get into.
-------------------- Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities. -Stephen Hawking
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,792
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In Germany and China you have entire villages that run on poo.
They collect livestock & human poo and put it in a big bioreactor building, sprinkled with the right bacteria.
This gasses the poo to form Methane, which is much lighter than air, so it rises to the top of the onion-shaped bioreactor, where the gas is collected, washed and fed into the local natural gas network.
These villages are close to self-sufficient, deriving their central heating and stove gas from the poo of the livestock they raise on their farms. If the poo-to-people ratio were better, one could even use the gas to drive generators (or better: fuel cells) and get off the electric grid as well.
The bacterial mix not just turns organic waste to methane, it also reduces fixated nitrogen to inert nitrogen, which means the enviromental impact of the poo is greatly reduced.
-You raise cattle for $$ -You use their poo to get off the gas/electricity grids -In doing so you render the poo far more enviromentally friendly
Thats win-win-win, and in some settings this already is profitable enough to economically exploit.
In China the same is being done with human poo, sewers leading to biogas plants before emptying out into the enviroment. Very promising technology once it gets beyond economic break-even: sewage disposal that produces usable energy!
Basically you do the same thing as with bio-ethanol, except you're after the gas, not the liquid, which by itself separates from the mixture rather than requiring costly distillation.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Asante]
#6057209 - 09/13/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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" -You use their poo to get off the gas/electricity grids -In doing so you render the poo far more enviromentally friendly "
The problem here is the large up front cost for the bio-reactors, and the long term operating costs of harvesting transporting and using the methane...
Unless energy prices were sky high, as they probably were in the towns where it has been done, its not going to be too costly to acheieve any financial benifit.
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 1,948
Loc: Samsara
Last seen: 11 years, 13 days
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
#6059953 - 09/14/06 07:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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How much has the was in Iraq cost us so far?
-------------------- Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities. -Stephen Hawking
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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in lives or dollars?
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 1,948
Loc: Samsara
Last seen: 11 years, 13 days
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
#6064255 - 09/15/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I meant dollars, but lives are an even greater commodity which we would be pretentious to even try to attach a true value to.
-------------------- Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities. -Stephen Hawking
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,792
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
#6064650 - 09/15/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
as they probably were in the towns where it has been done
It was in selected places with a high poo-to-people ratio and they had special kinds of transport. Its not economically viable as an energy source in most places.
If your livestock produces a lot of poo, you get to pay a lot of ecotaxes (here in Europe) which typically are calculated with nitrate emissions. The bioreactor also contains denitrifying bacteria which turn nitrate to inert nitrogen, so there is significant ecotax benefit in addition to energy production.
A problem people are unaware of is the nitrogen cycle. There is a balance in nature for fixed and inert nitrogen. The problem is that industry has found a way to fixate nitrogen (heat nitrogen gas with hydrogen and a catalyst under pressure, producing ammonia) so that theres a fixated nitrogen surplus, throwing natures balance off whack.
The irritating qualities of smog and the acidity of acid rain are for a large part a result of fixated nitrogen. Another bad effect is that 20th and 21st century warfare is made possible through artificial nitrogen fixation. Without it, the war machine could only support one or two wars a year worldwide.
The great thing recently is use of biotechnology, said bacteria, which in an enviromentally friendly way reduce the amount of "nitrogen pollution"
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Lana]
#6065934 - 09/15/06 07:33 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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After experimenting with other gas alternatives. I have found that some gas stations sell gas that is up to 40 50 % water.........
There is a viable way injecting the exhaust back into the gas and taking the vapours and running the car on that. The problem is that once you get most of the volatile vapours out of the gas you need to start adgetating the gas to keep the octane up. The more wateredown the gas is at the bottom the more you need to agitate. You can there by increase your running time by 200 % with this method.
There are a lot of variables and a lot of self automated adjustments you need to do. but so far it looks good.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,792
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Quote:
I have found that some gas stations sell gas that is up to 40 50 % water.........
Its a hydrocarbon, I don't think you can squeeze more water in than a few percent, and that probably as an emulsion, which shows as a clouding.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: Asante]
#6067431 - 09/16/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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So gasoline doesn't pull moisture from the atmosphere? Yeah my statement might have been off.
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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If your gas has more than a tiny bit of water in it, your exhaust will be a dense, white cloud. A bit more, and the engine won't run at all.
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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yeah, water kills fuel pumps and engines too!
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 11 days
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Re: SVO diesel [Re: ZippoZ]
#6068772 - 09/16/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zippoz said: yeah, water kills fuel pumps and engines too!
Sounds like the environment protecting itself to me.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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