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Redo
CTA

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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The CBC
#2875300 - 07/10/04 03:12 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I came across the CBC broadcast for today, and I finally know first hand how distorting the news is. I thought CNN was bad...
CBC kept playing clips of the adminstration stating there was WMD's, then kept pounding it into my head that there is nothing found before and after the war. Then having CIA analysts coming on saying that the CIA and Tenet now are just scapegoats, letting the president off the hook.
This was after a 7 minute report on a girl that is lost in the middle of nowhere (that made the breaking headlines).
Is there any important canadian news besides anti-american news? Or is it unchecked news against the USA.
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shriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: The CBC [Re: Redo]
#2875348 - 07/10/04 04:11 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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canada just have the same type of news alot of other countries have, its same here in europe. its american news that is insane to watch, and luckily i live a place where a missing person also makes the head lines instead of some kid shooting other kids or shit like that, im glad that kind of shit doesnt happen around here. and anti america well who arent anti america today
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Redo
CTA

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: shriek]
#2875384 - 07/10/04 05:01 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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The girl went missing the night before, and is just a missing persons case as of now, making headline news, followed by anti-bush news (anti-american may be a little too much to say I guess).
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Mixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: Redo]
#2875627 - 07/10/04 09:24 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Did the news report lie?
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Mixomatosis said: Did the news report lie?
That's what I'm wondering, too...where's the "distortion", Redo?
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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pB0t

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 2,556
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Re: The CBC *DELETED* [Re: Redo]
#2876078 - 07/10/04 02:42 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by pB0tReason for deletion: .
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Redo
CTA

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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The distortion is with the reporting on Bush, the girl that went missing the night before hitting as national news so fast is amazing to me. You guys have PLENTY more crime in your major cities then a missing girl to take the headline, im just saying what was reported.
I care more about the leaned Bush reporting.
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Kasumeat
Truism

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2877399 - 07/11/04 04:05 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pB0t said:I do hate the CBC though. Government shouldn't be running TV stations.
I think you're thinking of the American stations.
The extent of the the Canadian government running the CBC is that they mandate a certain amount of programing has to be of Canadian origin.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: The CBC [Re: Kasumeat]
#2877456 - 07/11/04 05:33 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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The Fed's provide funding for PBS.They don't run any media.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: The Fed's provide funding for PBS.They don't run any media.
!!yes they do...its all a conspiracy...its all run by the jewz man dont be blind !!
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pB0t

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 2,556
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Re: The CBC *DELETED* [Re: Kasumeat]
#2878075 - 07/11/04 12:47 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by pB0tReason for deletion: .
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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The CBC [Re: Redo]
#2878264 - 07/11/04 02:25 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Is there any important canadian news besides anti-american news?
So it is anti-American to tell the truth? Maybe you have a point...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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shriek
*********

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3,274
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Re: The CBC [Re: Swami]
#2878284 - 07/11/04 02:31 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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well you sure as hell can be concideret anti american by many americans by telling the truth sometimes:)
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Aldous
enthusiast


Registered: 10/19/99
Posts: 980
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 7 days, 2 hours
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2878669 - 07/11/04 04:07 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pB0t said:Government shouldn't be running TV stations.
No, of course not. For profit companies should do the job.
The above statement was ironical. I'm afraid this specification is needed .
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pB0t

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 2,556
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Re: The CBC *DELETED* [Re: Aldous]
#2879306 - 07/11/04 07:22 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by pB0tReason for deletion: .
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2879325 - 07/11/04 07:32 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't think the CBC is "run" by the government (though I could be wrong, I'm looking into this...) just that the CBC is heavily funded by the government. Obviously it is not entirely government funded, as evidenced by commercials.
Is there something fundamentally wrong with a government-funded television/radio network? Yes I know those of you who oppose just about anything that uses taxes will dissagree with it...so don't bother replying. My question is for those of us who don't have a problem with our taxes being used for public systems. As far as I know the CBC is not moderated by the government, except for the CRTC requiring a certain ammount of Canadian programming (which is not exactly "moderation").
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2880373 - 07/12/04 12:12 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I support the repeal of all mandatory Canadian content laws and privatization of the CBC. Why? Because Canadian shows, movies, bands, etc. that are good can survive specifically because they are good. It's called a free market. Bad ones do not deserve to be propped up by the government. Lots of Canadian shows are absolutely awful and only stay on the air because of stupid Canadian culture policies. what an obscenely simplistic understanding of media politics. The free market??? since when does that exist in the entertainment industry??? please do your homework before you post nonsense like this. if you discover that the facts do not support your viewpoint, then you have been educated. If the facts do support your viewpoint, then that will only strengthen your argument. but you should familiarize yourself with knowledge before publishing your opinion, their is nothing more contemptible than an uninformed opinion.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Kasumeat
Truism

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2881145 - 07/12/04 03:32 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pB0t said:The CRTC is the body that regulates Canadian content in all media, not just CBC.
Yes, but the CBC has a more specific mandate to follow.
Quote:
pB0t said:CBC is heavily subsidized by the government.
So in conclusion: the government tells CBC what to air, and pays for it with taxpayer money.
This is the absolute worst point that the anti-pubic mediites make. It's so ill-conceived, it makes me feel dizzy. :P
Where do you think the money for private media come from? They just run their programmes with money out of their own pockets, not making profits, out of the goodness of their own hearts?
I have news for you. You pay for other media too. However, unlike other media, the CBC's cheif goal isn't to make as much money as possible, it's to "present a wide range of programming in English and French that informs, enlightens and entertains, and reflects Canada, its regions, and its multicultural and multiracial nature; to be predominantly and distinctively Canadian, and to actively contribute to the flow of cultural expression and to Canada's shared national consciousness and identity."* As a non-public corporation, every other broadcasting service's mandate is to make as much money as possible for their shareholders.
The government is using our money for our own good, not the CBC's.
But that's not all. Unlike every single private broadcasting institution, you have control over what the CBC broadcasts. Your government funds the CBC. You elect your MP.
Quote:
pB0t said:I support the repeal of all mandatory Canadian content laws and privatization of the CBC. Why? Because Canadian shows, movies, bands, etc. that are good can survive specifically because they are good. It's called a free market. Bad ones do not deserve to be propped up by the government. Lots of Canadian shows are absolutely awful and only stay on the air because of stupid Canadian culture policies.
Shows, movies, bands, etc., don't survive because they are good. They survive because they make money. For every awful Canadian production that's stayed on the despite being awful, there has been a good one that's stayed on despite being unpopular.
*http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/ac-ca/progs/ri-bpi/pubs/lincoln/03_e.cfm
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Redo
CTA

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: Kasumeat]
#2881268 - 07/12/04 05:50 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Reporting is sopposed to be as unbiased or as objective as possible. I dont care who runs the CBC, I care about why is it so opinionated.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: The CBC [Re: Redo]
#2881513 - 07/12/04 09:07 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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> Reporting is sopposed to be as unbiased or as objective as possible.
There is no money in unbiased and objective news...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Redo
CTA

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: Seuss]
#2881584 - 07/12/04 09:43 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
There is no money in unbiased and objective news...
Maybe not unbiased, but there is alot of money in objective news.
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pB0t

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 2,556
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Re: The CBC *DELETED* [Re: Kasumeat]
#2883165 - 07/12/04 06:11 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by pB0tReason for deletion: .
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pB0t

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 2,556
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Post deleted by pB0tReason for deletion: .
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afoaf
CEO DBK?


Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: The CBC [Re: Redo]
#2883221 - 07/12/04 06:25 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redo said: Reporting is sopposed to be as unbiased or as objective as possible. I dont care who runs the CBC, I care about why is it so opinionated.
because it's 'opinionated' it can't be objective?
the two aren't mutually exclusive.
even the most opinionated can be objective in their arguments, and vice versa.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2883739 - 07/12/04 08:16 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Where's the counter argument? Im not going to post a counter-argument until a real, informed (not just based on assumptions) argument is posted.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: Seuss]
#2883785 - 07/12/04 08:28 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Seuss writes:
There is no money in unbiased and objective news...
The Wall Street Journal would disagree with you on that.
pinky
--------------------
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Evolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: The CBC [Re: Phred]
#2883820 - 07/12/04 08:36 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Don't you mean The War Street Journal?
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: The CBC [Re: Redo]
#2883853 - 07/12/04 08:43 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redo said: Reporting is sopposed to be as unbiased or as objective as possible. I dont care who runs the CBC, I care about why is it so opinionated.
From what you described, they were just stating facts. You appear to simply be unwilling to accept that Bush mislead the public, and that such a thing is newsworthy.
--------------------
  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Tasty_Smurf_House
Stranger


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 8,657
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: Redo]
#2884810 - 07/13/04 02:28 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I watch CTV news which is Canadian news.
It's so nice to watch. I can find out what is going on in the world and in my country. If I want I can choose to watch CNN or FOX but that stuff is just sick. If I flip to CNN right now it's probably about a shooting somewhere. And yes we have footage on Bush and all that, but that is because America is our neighboor and this whole Iraq thing affects us too. I have never seen anything anti-Bush on here, just telling the story of what's going on. You sound like one of those Jewish people saying The Passion of the Christ was antisemetic because it showed how the Jews crucified Jesus.
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Kasumeat
Truism

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2884854 - 07/13/04 02:52 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pB0t said:
Quote:
The government is using our money for our own good, not the CBC's.
You guys are missing the point. I shouldn't have to pay for something I don't watch/listen to. That isn't fair. The government does not know what is best for me, I do! It is ridiculous that we can't even get HBO (unless you have satellite and even then I'm fairly sure that non-CRTC approved/illegal) in this country because the government won't let us. I want to watch Bill Maher.
Don't take offence at this, but you, my friend, are living in the wrong country. :P They're using your money for the good of many Canadians. Other Canadians (such as myself ) are benefiting from your tax money going to the CBC. You're benefiting in other areas from other people's tax money, such as health insurance. That's social democracy. It's the basis of our government.
Quote:
pB0t said:And yes, entertainment is largely supplied by the free market. Things like Seinfeld and the Lord of the Rings movies were not made by some public agency, but by people trying to get rich. They succeeded because they were popular; people enjoyed them enough to sit through some commercials or cough up money. This is what I meant by good. I don't watch movies or TV shows or listen to music based on nationality, I go by what I like. Just because someone from the same country as me made it is no guarantee I will like it. PS: I do watch Canadian TV! Trailer Park Boys and Corner Gas are a couple of my favourite shows. And I have the Kids in the Hall DVD (one of the few CBC shows that was actually good).
There is validity to this. I agree with you to a point. But the fact of the matter is, Canadian television has an audience of less than 10% of American television shows (This is assuming that the American shows are being shown here and in the US, and the Canadian shows are being shown only here, which is almost always the case.). What does that mean in terms of the show's ad revenue? It means that American shows are going to make about ten times as much money, by virtue of having a larger audience; not by virtue of being a better show. With rare exceptions, Canadian entertainment televisions needs public funding to have a chance.
Quote:
pB0t said:PPS: Mike Bullard sucks.
God, yes.
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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Re: The CBC [Re: Redo]
#2884870 - 07/13/04 03:00 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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whaat about fox news?? they love distorting the truth...but they do it with a right-wing spin, so thats ok right??
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: Kasumeat]
#2884901 - 07/13/04 03:31 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Don't take offence at this, but you, my friend, are living in the wrong country. :P
its true, people that want lower taxes and believe in the free market above all else need to seriously consider moving to the US. The results of this last election proven that Canada isnt going to swing right anytime soon.
The Conservatives have less power than the NDP.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Tasty_Smurf_House writes:
If I want I can choose to watch CNN or FOX but that stuff is just sick.
Do you have satellite? The reason I ask is that the CRTC does not allow Canadian cable companies to carry FOX News (or HBO).
pinky
--------------------
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: Kasumeat]
#2885097 - 07/13/04 06:28 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Don't take offence at this, but you, my friend, are living in the wrong country. :P
Perhaps you are? Your disdain of freedom tells me you would be much better suited for life in The Sudan.
Quote:
They're using your money for the good of many Canadians.
Says they.
Quote:
Other Canadians (such as myself ) are benefiting from your tax money going to the CBC.
Let me be the first to congratulate you!
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You're benefiting in other areas from other people's tax money, such as health insurance.
Says you.
Quote:
That's social democracy. It's the basis of our government.
Would you be in favor of a majority of Canadians deeming your living residence suitable for destruction so the new ice sculpture museum that they deem as being 'quite neccesary' for Canada as a whole to be built? If not is it just a matter of degree then? You'll steal from people up to a point but then some semblance of rationale kicks in and tells you maybe their is something wrong with this? I do like how you use the phrase 'benefiting [the majority]' as opposed to 'stealing [from the minority]'. Sugar-coats it very nicely.
Quote:
It means that American shows are going to make about ten times as much money, by virtue of having a larger audience; not by virtue of being a better show.
Wow. Are you aware of how many American TV shows get canceled every season? If a show sucks, despite how many people live in it's country of origin, it won't last. That's how the free market works, if enough people like a product, it'll survive. If not, it won't. It's quite a good system...no theft involved.
Quote:
With rare exceptions, Canadian entertainment televisions needs public funding to have a chance.
Because of a smaller population? Are their NO SHOWS that exist without public funding...I'd be willing to call bullshit if you say yes, not that you've made such a claim to this point. As such it is clear that these 'rare exceptions' are shows that a large enough portion of the Canadian audience deem enjoyable. Clearly if shows are found enjoyable, even in a sparsely populated country like Canada, they can stay afloat without stolen money.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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Redo
CTA

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Quote:
silversoul7 said: From what you described, they were just stating facts. You appear to simply be unwilling to accept that Bush mislead the public, and that such a thing is newsworthy.
If you like to see short clips that explain about 5% of the story, then yes, you can accept it as fact.
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poorphucker
Worthless Poster


Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 209
Loc: New Brunswick Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 13 days
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Re: The CBC *DELETED* [Re: Redo]
#2885334 - 07/13/04 09:23 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by poorphucker
-------------------- Remember kiddies............... Automobiles are not an illusion! Fire is not your friend! And YOU CANNOT FLY...unless you are on a 20 story building and jump! Practice makes perfect!
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poorphucker
Worthless Poster


Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 209
Loc: New Brunswick Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 13 days
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Post deleted by poorphucker
-------------------- Remember kiddies............... Automobiles are not an illusion! Fire is not your friend! And YOU CANNOT FLY...unless you are on a 20 story building and jump! Practice makes perfect!
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st0nedphucker
Rogue State

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 1,047
Loc: Wales (yes it is a countr...
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Thats 'cos Canada iz borings'....
You aint go no's decentz newz
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Kasumeat
Truism

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Ancalagon said: Perhaps you are? Your disdain of freedom tells me you would be much better suited for life in The Sudan.
I have no disdain for freedom. I like it just fine right here, thanks.
Quote:
Because of a smaller population? Are their NO SHOWS that exist without public funding...I'd be willing to call bullshit if you say yes, not that you've made such a claim to this point. As such it is clear that these 'rare exceptions' are shows that a large enough portion of the Canadian audience deem enjoyable. Clearly if shows are found enjoyable, even in a sparsely populated country like Canada, they can stay afloat without stolen money.
There are currently about a dozen Canadian entertainment shows that they alive without government support. I don't know what the number is for American shows, but if you say that it isn't at least a hundred times that, I'm calling bullshit on you. That right there is a huge discrepancy. If Canadian shows got an equal chance, there should be about ten times as many American shows.
Stolen money? I have a deal for you. My government will stop 'stealing' your money, and you can stop stealing my land, my health care system, my protection, and my security (financial and physical), to name a few. 
The fact of the matter is is that the CBC is the most internationally-respected Canadian media institution in Canada. It wouldn't be there without public funding.
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sir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
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Re: The CBC [Re: Redo]
#2886469 - 07/13/04 02:26 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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WE'RE WORSE THAN ALL JAZEERA!!
--------------------
"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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Evolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: The CBC [Re: Kasumeat]
#2886498 - 07/13/04 02:38 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kasumeat said: Stolen money? I have a deal for you. My government will stop 'stealing' your money, and you can stop stealing my land, my health care system, my protection, and my security (financial and physical), to name a few. 
Who is stealing your land, your health care system, your protection and your security? Are you saying that if the government would stop extorting money from other people to give you freebies that this is the same as stealing these freebies from you? If your best friend is a thief, and 'generously' gives you a small portion of his stolen goods every time he takes them from one of his victims and then one day he is stopped from stealing that somehow the goods that he once gave you are now stolen from you? Is that your line of 'reasoning?'
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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pB0t

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 2,556
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Post deleted by pB0tReason for deletion: .
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Because of a smaller population? Are their NO SHOWS that exist without public funding...I'd be willing to call bullshit if you say yes, not that you've made such a claim to this point. As such it is clear that these 'rare exceptions' are shows that a large enough portion of the Canadian audience deem enjoyable. Clearly if shows are found enjoyable, even in a sparsely populated country like Canada, they can stay afloat without stolen money.
do your homework before you run your mouth. Look at Korean cinema for example, see how it is a massive success, why? because of government support. American media has had massive government backing in the form of forcing into into foreign markets with economic threats.
DONT AGREE????? do your homework and get back to me.
All of Canada's entertainment successes have come from government support, and they have come to reap more and more profits over the last decade.
just, please, move to the states allready. You are trying to inflict American values on to Canadians, and that is just silly, we have very divergent cultures and opinions, and measuring Canadian politics on American terms is idiotic.
free market? low taxes? like I said, that isnt Canada, nor will it be, get your head out of the sand and go get a green card application, you will be much happier. Because as of now, your views do not have a chance of ever being accepted by the Canadian public, or the government.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Quote:
st0nedphucker said: Thats 'cos Canada iz borings'....
You aint go no's decentz newz
says the guy from Wales.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2887422 - 07/13/04 07:59 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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pbot:
Yet the Conservatives have 5 times the seats of the NDP. Do you honestly think the NDP is more powerful than the Conservatives?
seats are irrelevant in this matter. Think it through, The liberals are left-leaning, the bloc is left-leaning, and the NDP is left.
how does a right-wing party fit into this equation?
If the liberals propose something that both the Bloc and the Cons oppose, its up to the NDP. If Cons propose anything, it will automatically be voted down by the libs/ndp/bloc.
who has more power in this situation? the cons only have a chance if the libs swing right....which doesnt seem very likely.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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do your homework before you run your mouth. Look at Korean cinema for example, see how it is a massive success, why? because of government support. American media has had massive government backing in the form of forcing into into foreign markets with economic threats.
We are arguing on different grounds. You are arguing that for a legitimate number of shows to succeed in Canada, government has to support some stations. I am arguing that for government to do this is IMMORAL. It is curious indeed that you did not respond to my ice sculpture museum analogy... Quote:
All of Canada's entertainment successes have come from government support, and they have come to reap more and more profits over the last decade.
You said before that there were at least 12 self-sustaining entertainment shows. I cannot say if this number is lower of higher not living in Canada but your statement contradicts the above regardless. If they're reaping profits, meaning people are watching them and they are generating advertising revenue, perhaps it is time government stops funding them? Quote:
just, please, move to the states allready. You are trying to inflict American values on to Canadians, and that is just silly, we have very divergent cultures and opinions, and measuring Canadian politics on American terms is idiotic.
I live in the United States my friend. Quote:
free market? low taxes? like I said, that isnt Canada, nor will it be, get your head out of the sand and go get a green card application, you will be much happier. Because as of now, your views do not have a chance of ever being accepted by the Canadian public
Have you had an articulate defender of laissez-faire present his/her argument to each and ever canadian of voting age, and followed it up with a survey as to whether they'd prefer to keep their kleptocracy? If not, maybe you should stop with the false generalizations. Listen, I understand where you're coming from and I am also aware of the infinite amount of knowledge you have of Canada and Canadians relative to me. I must tell you though that I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THAT. Call me narrow-minded, perhaps I am, but with every passing day it becomes harder and harder for me to see good in any system that denies liberty. Socialism is theft and to permit theft is to have a total disregard of property rights. The TRUE(see: not fucking healthcare) rights of humans are derived from property and thus the socialist system really works against life itself.* *-Minor thieving of Pinky's sig quote. edit:
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or the government.
Shucks, why'd you wait till the end to throw that zinger in. Could have saved me a lot of typing! If the current Canadian government disapproves of liberty clearly I'm off-base in my thoughts and downright stupid in my desires. Thank you for showing me the light O Government of Canada!
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
Edited by Ancalagon (07/13/04 11:21 PM)
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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I live in the United States my friend. wow, then why are you so concerned about Canadian governmental policy which has absolutely nothing to do with you and which the vast majority of Canadians support? I am arguing that for government to do this is IMMORAL. well, the vast majority of Canadians do not, so I guess that means morals are relative. You said before that there were at least 12 self-sustaining entertainment shows. I did.....? If they're reaping profits, meaning people are watching them and they are generating advertising revenue, perhaps it is time government stops funding them? The government doesnt fund projects that reap profit. kleptocracy? wow, thats intelligent. Yes, you dont agree with Canadian values, thats been established, but for you to label us a "kleptocracy" is just hopelessly ignorant. when 70% of Canadians vote for parties that will maintain our current tax level, or raise tax rates, it indicates that Canadians agree with the system, and thus it is not theft. it must be fun for you to throw around words like kleptocracy is such a shallow manner though, Azerbaijan, that is a kleptocracy, go do some research to further your understanding of the word's actual meaning. I must tell you though that I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THAT so you dont give a damn about what Canadians actually want, and you think they should be subjected to your American ideals.... and then you talk about liberty. Interesting. You are an ideologue with no respect for democracy, an ideologue who thinks that YOUR ideals should be what...forced? upon people who dont want them.... thats not liberty McGenius, thats totalitarianism.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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wow, then why are you so concerned about Canadian governmental policy which has absolutely nothing to do with you and which the vast majority of Canadians support?
The lack of liberty anywhere is a concern of mine.
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well, the vast majority of Canadians do not, so I guess that means morals are relative.
I don't care much for a code of morals that condones and encourages blatant theft.
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I did.....?
Sorry about that, didn't realize I had first argued with Kasumeat and then with you. The redness of your avatars threw me off. One of you does happen to be wrong though.
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The government doesnt fund projects that reap profit.
This is WHAT YOU JUST SAID:
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All of Canada's entertainment successes have come from government support, and they have come to reap more and more profits over the last decade.
So does your government stop funding those shows once they are self-sustaining? Did I misinterpret what you said? A little help please.
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wow, thats intelligent.
Thank You!
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Yes, you dont agree with Canadian values, thats been established
I don't agree with your current system of government just as I don't agree with the current system of government within the United States.
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but for you to label us a "kleptocracy" is just hopelessly ignorant.
Kleptocracy, being a government run by thieves, I believe VERY accurately describes any 'socialist democracy'. Do you deny that Socialism is theft?
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when 70% of Canadians vote for parties that will maintain our current tax level, or raise tax rates, it indicates that Canadians agree with the system, and thus it is not theft.
2+2=5. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Etc. Because a majority of people believe something, that something is true? What about the other 30%? If they don't particularly care for socialized medicine are you not stealing from them and violating their rights?
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it must be fun for you to throw around words like kleptocracy is such a shallow manner though, Azerbaijan, that is a kleptocracy, go do some research to further your understanding of the word's actual meaning.
It's very fun, and sometimes I even hit the target in my throwing of such a word. This is one such case.
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so you dont give a damn about what Canadians actually want, and you think they should be subjected to your American ideals....
What the hell? I'm debating with you buddy, not outlining my plans for a Coup that will overthrow your government and set up what I feel is a better one. I am of the opinion that socialism is a horrible and immoral system that consists of total theft and denial of property rights and thus human rights.
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and then you talk about liberty. Interesting.
Wise up. I have yet to, and never will seek to FORCE my will upon anyone, I am merely trying to persuade you to look at socialism as I do. Please show me how and where any force is involved. Please.
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You are an ideologue with no respect for democracy
More than that I absolutely DESPISE democracy. You have at the very least nailed that point.
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an ideologue who thinks that YOUR ideals should be what...forced? upon people who dont want them....
You what...would like to see everyone with down syndrome shot in the face? No? Are you going to continue putting words in my mouth and making up shit?
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thats not liberty McGenius, thats totalitarianism.
You must have been very satisfied by the end of that post. You went from attempting to counter my points at the beginning to discovering my inherent totalitarianism at the end. A job well done detective! Now if you could just deal with what I write as opposed to what you would have liked me to have written for your argument's benefit, this discussion can be a lot more productive.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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Kasumeat
Truism

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Ancalagon said:2+2=5. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Etc. Because a majority of people believe something, that something is true? What about the other 30%? If they don't particularly care for socialized medicine are you not stealing from them and violating their rights?
Wow, I can't believe an American is accusing Canada of being an Owellian society.
Absolutely not, that is not stealing in any way. They are not being forced to live in Canada. Taxes are 100% voluntary. If you don't want to pay them, you have every right not to get a job, and then leave Canada.
If you're propsing that a tax-free government is the way to go, all I can say is, 'no thanks'.
-------------------- A utopian government is the best type.
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Evolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: The CBC [Re: Kasumeat]
#2890543 - 07/14/04 04:05 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Kasumeat said: They are not being forced to live in Canada. Taxes are 100% voluntary. If you don't want to pay them, you have every right not to get a job, and then leave Canada.
Sounds quite similar to the way the mob operates a protection racket. "Hey, it's a free country. You don't like it, stop doin' business in our territory and leave before we come lookin' for ya'..."
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: Kasumeat]
#2890935 - 07/14/04 06:01 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow, I can't believe an American is accusing Canada of being an Owellian society.
What the fuck is with you people? Can you PLEASE just read what I say and not assume anything. He said that because 70% of Canadians voted for theft, it wasn't theft. The 1984 reference dealt with a complete fallacy being expoused [as truth] because the majority believed(voted) it. I in no way called Canada an Orwellian society. Quote:
Absolutely not, that is not stealing in any way. They are not being forced to live in Canada. Taxes are 100% voluntary. If you don't want to pay them, you have every right not to get a job, and then leave Canada.
Bullshit. You would tell a Jew in 1938 Germany that them being rapidly stripped of civil liberties and potentially dissapearing is completely voluntary in the sense that they can leave whenever they want(disregard instances of them being prevented from leaving, that is not the issue at hand)? A person should give up their livelihood, their friends, and their family because the majority of people in your country support theft and thieves? I don't see how you can say socialism is not theft...Your property is being seized from you BY FORCE in order to serve some greater good. That is theft buddy, motive does not matter.
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If you're propsing that a tax-free government is the way to go, all I can say is, 'no thanks'.
Feel free to tax people for the legitimate functions of government, DON'T tax them for each and every petty little project a politician feels would benefit society. [x]=edit.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
Edited by Ancalagon (07/14/04 07:12 PM)
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pB0t

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 2,556
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Re: The CBC *DELETED* [Re: Evolving]
#2890959 - 07/14/04 06:10 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by pB0tReason for deletion: .
Edited by pB0t (07/14/04 10:10 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2891290 - 07/14/04 08:16 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Agreed. As one who lived through the Trudeaupian years (and yes, I remember when martial law was declared in Canada -- by Trudeau) I can honestly say that Trudeau was very probably the worst thing that ever happened to that poor sad sack of a country.
That reminds me -- to all you Canadians (and remember, I was born and raised in Canada -- spent the first three and a half decades of my life in Canada) who think the US is a police state, could one of you please tell me the last time martial law was declared in the US?
Thanks in advance.
pinky
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Kasumeat
Truism

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Ancalagon said:What the fuck is with you people? Can you PLEASE just read what I say and not assume anything. He said that because 70% of Canadians voted for theft, it wasn't theft. The 1984 reference dealt with a complete fallacy being expoused [as truth] because the majority believed(voted) it. I in no way called Canada an Orwellian society.
In retrospect, you didn't really do either. You were being vague, and I misinterpereted you. Sorry.
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[Holocaust=taxes]
That's the most disgusting thing I think I've ever heard come up in a serious political debate. You quite literally equated socialism with surpression of humans rights, which resulted in the killing of millions.
You're not worth any more of my time.
-------------------- A utopian government is the best type.
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: pB0t]
#2892114 - 07/15/04 01:23 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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pB0t said: I'm reading a lot of things here about "Canadian values". Not everyone in Canada, especially WEST of Ontario, shares these values. Indeed these "Canadian values" were mostly the values of politicians like Pierre Trudeau, who swung Canada hard to the left when he became PM. Canada used to be a lot more middle of the road than it is now.
Of course, the implication is that if you don't agree with the Liberals, you aren't Canadian. Worked well for Martin this last election in attacking Harper.
EDIT: Whoops, huge blunder there; I wrote east and not west. My bad.
shit, Im sorry, I thought for some reason the voting patterns of Canadians somehow reflected their values.
????????????
no, you are still Canadian if you dont agree with the other 70% of Canadians, but guess what? if 70% of Canadians hold these values, and have for the past 30 years, then its pretty logical to say that these are "Canadian values".
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Ancalagon:I don't care much for a code of morals that condones and encourages blatant theft.
yes, you cant see outside your dogma, congrats. When a bunch of people pool their money together to pay for things of mutual benefit, it isnt theft......think that idea through before you use the word "theft" again.
Ancalagon: What the hell? I'm debating with you buddy, not outlining my plans for a Coup that will overthrow your government and set up what I feel is a better one. I am of the opinion that socialism is a horrible and immoral system that consists of total theft and denial of property rights and thus human rights.
haha, okay. So you believe their is only ONE correct political choice, right? your way is the only "moral" way. And even if a nation such as Canada democratically chooses a way that we think is best for us, we are still wrong, and we are immoral.
thats very disturbing.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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sir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
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Re: The CBC [Re: Phred]
#2892233 - 07/15/04 02:35 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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How bitter can a country make somebody?
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
When a bunch of people pool their money together to pay for things of mutual benefit, it isnt theft
As long as they pool their monies by their own choosing. Once their money is pooled for them, it's a different matter.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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everyone in Canada has the option to not pay taxes and move into the wilderness where they dont have to be burdened by all those terrible things taxes creat: roads, schools, hospitals, universities, police, parks etc etc
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: The CBC [Re: Kasumeat]
#2892658 - 07/15/04 07:59 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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In retrospect, you didn't really do either. You were being vague, and I misinterpereted you. Sorry.
I was being crystal clear, but apology accepted.
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[Holocaust=taxes]
Why do you have such a problem with refuting what I say as opposed to your deranged fucking interpretation of what I say? I did not say taxes are equal to the events of the Holocaust, AT ALL, EVER, ANYWHERE. I said that your logic of taxes being voluntary because someone who disagrees can leave at any time is the same logic that could have been presented to a jew in 1938 Germany...that argument is spurious.
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That's the most disgusting thing I think I've ever heard come up in a serious political debate.
Cry me a fucking river. YOU interpreted it in such a way that it was disgusting, I did not intend it to be construed in that manner(if I did, I would have written it as such).
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quite literally equated socialism with surpression of humans rights,
Socialism remains the surpression of rights. I still await a response to that besides the 'it's not forced, you can leave whenever you want, go!' nonsense. It is a violation of human rights. A majority of people are taking money that you have earned and distributing it as they see fit. Please, show me how this is not theft.
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You're not worth any more of my time.
That's a shame.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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yes, you cant see outside your dogma, congrats.
Unfortunately for socialism I can see outside my 'dogma.'
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When a bunch of people pool their money together to pay for things of mutual benefit, it isnt theft......think that idea through before you use the word "theft" again.
I. NEVER. CLAIMED. ANY. SUCH. THING. ! ! That is not what goes on in Canada though, is it? It's not a bunch of people pooling THEIR money together to pay for things of mutual benefit, it's a majority of people pooling EVERYBODY'S(see: even the minority that disagrees) money together for things they DEEM to be of mutual benefit. Theft it is and theft it remains.
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haha, okay. So you believe their is only ONE correct political choice, right?
I believe there is one moral political choice.
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your way is the only "moral" way.
Perhaps not, but any form of government that has even the slightest disregard for the inherent rights of man is immoral. The governments of Canada and the United States are such governments.
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And even if a nation such as Canada democratically chooses a way that we think is best for us, we are still wrong, and we are immoral.
The 'democratically' part IS THE PROBLEM. Listen, I have absolutely no problem with a neighborhood of 50 people, a city of 50,000 people, or a nation of 50,000,000 people ALL agreeing to pool their money together for the greater good. I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AND IT IS NOT IMMORAL. The problem in your case is that 100% of the people are not in favor of this voluntary pooling of money. Instead of letting them be, you FORCE them to submit. The initiation of force is immoral. Plain and Simple.
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thats very disturbing.
I don't personally see how liberty is disturbing but to each his own.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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Positronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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ancalagon:
The problem in your case is that 100% of the people are not in favor of this voluntary pooling of money. Instead of letting them be, you FORCE them to submit. The initiation of force is immoral. Plain and Simple.
like I have said before, If you dont want to pay taxes, or use the services created by taxes, you can move into the wild. Where is the force?
I don't personally see how liberty is disturbing but to each his own.
um....yeah, nice try, you are only fooling yourself.
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
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Evolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Positronius said: like I have said before, If you dont want to pay taxes, or use the services created by taxes, you can move into the wild. Where is the force?
Like I said before this is the same logic as a mob protection racket. What would you think if I came to your place of work and said to you, "You have two choices, give me 50% of every one of your paychecks or leave your job and live in the wilderness. If you do not, I will cart you away in handcuffs and place you in a cell. If you resist, I will use any force necessary to subdue you..."? Do you think that this is okay? Would it be right for me to do this to you?
-------------------- To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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like I have said before, If you dont want to pay taxes, or use the services created by taxes, you can move into the wild. Where is the force?
The fact that you're forcing me to leave my property or give up my property. How do you not see the force?
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um....yeah, nice try, you are only fooling yourself.
If you sincerely believe there is liberty in social democracy, nothing I say is going to change your mind.
I'd like to ask one last time though, if 51% of the Canadian populace decided that demolishing your house and replacing it with an ice sculpture museum was beneficial to Canada as a whole, would you accept it as fair and just? If so, then at least you are a man of principle, however immoral those principles may be. If not, what makes you decide to draw the line there? Is it because of the amount of property being taken from you? Is it because it's YOUR property? The problem with social democracy is a line cannot be drawn, once liberty is encroached upon there is no logical defense against its further encroachment.
Thank you.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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