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Offlinegnrm23
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cactus chips
    #2873329 - 07/09/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

if i tried to post this in "other drugs" forum it'd prolly end up here anyways...
hmm, a kilo of dried tricho chips...
30 grams per potpouripack...

what to do, what to do?

nibble straight up...
tradtional tea (mebbe not cimora, but simmered w/squeeze lemon, several freash simmerings, gulpgulp...
soak/simmer in vinegar (or dil HCl?) & concentrate & freeze out crude salts; or --->a/b & isolate f.b oil & acidify somehow to form crystals (fairly pure); or try adding base to soln & see what falls out; or cook down to goo; or "other"...
ummmm similarly, soak in ethanol for a drinkable tincture (or other alcohol for drying to a different sort of goo)...

or something else...


not in these unites states - strickly fer sachets & smudges & potpouris

(i wonder if NAC could use sanpedro to help stretch diminshing supplies of their peyote?)

have a nice summer...

summertime
come and go
my oh my...


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: cactus chips [Re: gnrm23]
    #2873403 - 07/09/04 04:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Depends on your state of mind and how long you're willing to play with it...

Tea/alcohol seems most viable....altho grinding/shredding previous to both would be a good idea.

An A/B would be interesting....there's a post down in the FAQ forum that has a good extraction tek...would be interesting to see how this would work....if you want, i could run down best ways to precip mescaline salts....


Nibbling sounds like a pukeworthy experiment tho.... :projectile:

Beware the heat, 100 degrees coming your way. :crazy2:


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Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: cactus chips [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2876030 - 07/10/04 04:05 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

110 gms blenderized dry, soaked overnight in 151 vodka....
strained through filter in basket of Iso-2 (r) extraction device with fresh 151 & soxhleting for the next day or so...
then reclaim some of the ethanol & .... what, try for a straight ppt from hot water (to evap EtOH) & equimolar HCl (oh, a slight excess) & simmer down, filter hot & cool...
or an actual a/b with HCl, NaOH, dH2O & maybe some xylol... get the f.b. outa the organic layer by dropwise HCl?
~
meanwhile, freshly shredded coca leaf & pre-powdered instant coca tea are soaking in armenian brandy, waiting their turn at the iso2...
~
the above takes place somewhere off the coast of quebec, so i've heard...
~
(maybe soak some nice vanatu kava in some 151 rum?)


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Offlinestefan
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Re: cactus chips [Re: gnrm23]
    #2877463 - 07/11/04 07:46 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

interesting, make sure to update us on this :laugh:


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: cactus chips [Re: stefan]
    #2881341 - 07/12/04 08:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

so, on saturday, somebody i know simmered 60 gms cactus chips in mildly acidulated water (ascorbic acid & citric acid crystals added, a sprinkle of each) 4X & combined liquids simmered down... ready for proper disposal by early evening...
nasty tasting green liquid, still slightly mucilagenous (sp? slimy, anyways)...
2 1/2 pint jars filled with warm liquid...
each combined with OJ...
sip, sip, sip, ick...
no pukes, but nervous tummies...
2 taste testers unable to finish drinks, so an intrepid third volunteer finished off both glasses...
next day, all 3 OK but maybe still a li'l trippy...
slept it off eventually, heh...
~
this was initial field testing...
full field test will be conducted in the field...
offer void where prohibited by law...


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Offlinethe man
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Re: cactus chips [Re: gnrm23]
    #2881981 - 07/12/04 02:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

so 3 of you split 60 grams? and color altirations?


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: cactus chips [Re: the man]
    #2882464 - 07/12/04 04:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

grid's troof, it waddint me...

maybe in like 9 days or so...

& better start packing...

"hot fun in the summertime"

yeeehaw

(calm down gnrmi or we'll hafta sedate you...
i wanna be sedated :wink: ...)

gesundheit...


EDITED for yibble-yammer


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Edited by gnrm23 (07/12/04 04:09 PM)


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: cactus chips [Re: gnrm23]
    #2883050 - 07/12/04 07:28 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

To be honest, i doubt that any real results (like crystals) are going to be achieved with anything under Everclear (tm).....
Everything i've seen seems to be that the water drags over some of the fats n whatnot, making the charecteristic "goo".

This tidbit might prove useful. Jacked straight from the Home-Bees at the Hive.
Re: mescaline extraction solvents

I had posted this at the old hive:

Proposed Mescaline Extraction

===> The Method <===

1) Chop the cactus in slices and dry well. Grind to a fine powder.
2) Extract the cactus powder with 95% ethanol (denaturated is fine) in a closed container kept at a warm place for a prolonged period of time. Use approx 10 to 20 parts of ethanol for every part of cactus powder. At the beginning of the extraction add (drop by drop) some caustic soda dissolved in ethanol (saturated solution) to render the mixture alkaline towards indicator paper.
3) After a few days filter off the cactus powder, using a coffee filter.
4) Carefully and drop by drop add 1 part of concentrated sulfuric acid to 10 parts of 95% ethanol.
5) Drop by drop and with stirring add the ethanolic H2SO4 prepared in step 4 to the extract until it's neutral or just very slightly acidic towards indicator paper. If you are lucky, mescaline sulfate dihydrate (MSDH) precipitates during this step.
6) Put the neutralized extract in the freezer. Some more MSDH might precipitate.
7) Filter the cold extract to obtain the MSDH and wash with a small amount of icecold water. Dry the obtained crystalline MSDH in a warm place.
8) If further purification is desired, it can be recrystallized from H2O of 95% ethanol.



===> The Background <===

This procedure is based on the final cleanup step in a synthesis of mescaline. I have the copy right in front of me, but there is no information on what journal etc.

The last step in the synthesis was the reduction of 2,3,4-trimethoxyphenylacetonitrile with LiAlH4. The mixture was then made basic and extracted with ether:

"The brown oil is extracted with three portions of 30 ml each of ether. The combined extracts are washed once with water and dried over stick potassium hydroxide. To the decanted ether solution is added a mixture of 1 g of sulfuric acid and 25 ml of ether. The white precipitate is washed several times with ether; yield 1.2 g. After two recrystallizations from 95% ethanol, the colorless plates soften at 172? and melt at 183?."

Comparing the melting point with the data given in the Merck Index, it must be (Mesc)2.H2SO4.2H2O or the mescaline sulfate dihydrate (MSDH).

For MSDH the solubilities are:
- soluble in hot water, methanol
- sparingly soluble in cold water and ethanol

For mescaline the solubilities are:
- Moderately soluble in water
- soluble in alcohol, chloroform, benzene
- almost insoluble in ether, petrol ether

There is no data given for the solubitity of the acid sulfate Mesc.H2SO4.


So ether would not be the solvent of choice due to the low solubility, and water must be avoided due to the highly viscous goo formed. Ethanol, however, is a good solvent for mescaline, doesn't form goo with the dried cactus and is available OTC.



Dunno, apparently amphetamines just seem to like being sulfates....

Best way i ran down. The HCl salt seems to be more trouble than it's worth....

Lemme know how it goes if this is any help!


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: cactus chips [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2885092 - 07/13/04 08:26 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

well...
cooking the ethanolic liquid down, adding dilute HCl, filtering hot, cooking down some more, filtering again... big clumps of goo settling out, filtered out... remaing liquid cooled off overnight... a suggestion of needles in the stuff at the bottom of the jar... gonna chill further over salted icewater & filter out the "goodies" cold (& further reduce the volume of the liquid for a possible "second crop")... & we shall see what that solid ppt looks like upon drying...
further details may follow...
do not attempt where prohibited by law...


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: cactus chips [Re: gnrm23]
    #2899669 - 07/17/04 01:45 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah....i'd do at least two pulls out of it....but i'm through like that.

Any updates?


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflineOpenminded
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Re: cactus chips [Re: gnrm23]
    #2899943 - 07/17/04 04:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"big clumps of goo settling out, filtered out"

Remember that those blobs are mainly cactus juice, with some protein and other crap, and they will have the same mescaline concentration as the liquid from which they came.
I haven't done this extraction, so I don't know how much goo you get, but if it's a lot and you throw it away, then you're throwing away a lot of mescaline.
But if it is just a small amount then throw it away, since further extraction of goo will be slow and yield little.
I just thought I'd point out that the goo does contain goodies and should not be wasted if possible.


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Offlineesin
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Re: cactus chips [Re: gnrm23]
    #2902057 - 07/18/04 12:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I strongly recommend foaf's tek if you want some pure mescaline.

It may seem intimidating, but all there is to it is mix the powdered cactus with water + lye + xylene, syphon xylene, add acid water to the xylene and evaporate the water. Keep adding xylene/separating/salting out until no more mesc comes out of the cactus/lye/water mix. You don't even need to filter anything...


This is crude mescaline HCl extracted from 1,5 pounds of fresh Pachanoi - you can wash it to pure white crystals with acetone. I didn't bother cleaning it further because that's just a dose or 2...

It's not difficult anymore (easier than DMT IMHO), and in 2 or 3 weeks you'll have a heap of crystal that's ready for consumption, and doesn't have the seriously nauseating effects involved with drinking nasty cactus syrup/tea.

edit: I said 3 pounds of fresh pachanoi, but i got the kg-pound conversion wrong. It was 1,5 pounds or 750g of cactus...


Edited by esin (07/18/04 02:09 PM)


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OfflineOpenminded
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Re: cactus chips [Re: esin]
    #2902500 - 07/18/04 02:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"You don't even need to filter anything..."

I reckon that if you did give it a good filtering, with proper lab filters, then you would have got some nice white crystals. It looks like a fairly clean extract. I mean, it doesn't look like there's any gunk or anything, just some cactus dust making it brown.


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Offlineesin
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Re: cactus chips [Re: Openminded]
    #2903077 - 07/18/04 06:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Although you let the mixture sit still for at least 24h before separating so that there is the least possible amount of suspended dust in the NP layer, filtering might result in a somewhat cleaner product.

That final acetone step i skipped will get rid of most brown/tan impurities, though...


This tek relies on the long time (weeks) that the cactus sits in lye water to release all its alkaloids.

So, if you must filter, filter either the xylene, or the final acid water. This will take care of the last bit of suspended dust. NEVER FILTER THE CACTUS/LYE SLURRY or the freebase mescaline in suspension will be filtered out.
Besides, as i said the cactus particles will have mescaline in them till the slurry is spent, so filtering before extraction is finished will result in product loss.

So:
-If you start with a syrup or a tea, you can safely filter it before basifying. It will take several days if you don't have a vacuum setup, though.
-If you do the foaf's tek, filter only the xylene or the acid water - otherwise you will loose a substancial amount of alkaloids to the filter.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: cactus chips [Re: esin]
    #2906395 - 07/19/04 08:43 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

shoved ppt solids into freezer for future reference...


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Offlinekolizion
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Re: cactus chips [Re: gnrm23]
    #2907490 - 07/20/04 04:24 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

whats the doseage on the crude compound Idealy ?


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Offlinekolizion
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Re: cactus chips [Re: kolizion]
    #2915341 - 07/22/04 11:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

actually scratch that top question of stupidity... I read that toulene (sp) might have been a better solvent for use in extraction. Is there any other qouted yields to using acetone in the extraction, or toulene instead of xylene... meaning any other solvents hold more ?


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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