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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 2
    #28682274 - 03/01/24 08:07 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

yawhay said:Not sure what you mean by divination but I can say most things earthly aren't very fruitful in the realm of divinity.



TBA makes his point well, I think- but I'd like to add my opinions here too.
I think in this thread, most of us are using the definition of divination as "Seeking knowledge of the unknown through supernatural means." Unpacking a bit further, 'knowledge of the unknown' could be external- events, circumstances or internal- hidden motives or behaviour patterns. And 'supernatural' in this case simply meaning 'outside of the normal understanding of science or occuring outside of the scope of expected natural phenomenon' that ranging in personal definition from unresolved/partial theories about the unconscious yielding useful insight all the way to fully spooksville discarnate spirits telling you what's up.
Quote:

yawhay said:The highest among them I would claim are eating enough food to sustain oneself, having an active lifestyle, being cleanly in all regards, and being nice.



"Love everyone and feed people " basically golden rule stuff as well as keeping yourself fit for service &respecting your human incarnation, I can dig it.
I see you say in another thread that Christ is a mushroom- in an esoteric sense I'd be inclined to agree that visions, notions & experiences of the Christ nature and how to enact/embody them certainly appear in the psychedelic state. Which is why I find it hard to reconcile your saying:
Quote:

yawhay said:The real juice is out there inebriated on doses of psychedelics so high you can't see the ground. And when you are looking over fields of cosmic realm in another dimensionality with the kings and queens of ancient mysteries, filled with plasmagoric love and understanding of the universe, and you realize you are a god, with divine benevolent intention, and peace....that is divination to me and any other attempt at it is mere hubris.



Like many here, I look to the psychedelic experience with massive love, curiosity ,respect and admiration but that is NOT, IMO- "the real juice"!
If anything it's the straw, something that lets you suck up some of the juice (inspiration, knowledge and motivation in order for you to carry it forward for yourself and those around you) so you can digest it.
With appropriate practice, I would say there is little to no hubris involved in admitting that you may know so little about what you need, that you're willing to consider such seemingly disparate sources than your own life long streak of knowing the most, for self refinement.
In fact, I'd say to an extent supplicating to these spiritual forces or whatever is at work is a massive milestone of humility in your progression and- IME- each time you reach it again, it seems to pay dividends with your connection to the Universe.
The juice doesn't depend on you having a straw or even a cup but if you want to sip that nectar you're gonna have to AT LEAST cup your hands and dip in.
That is to say, if you think you are/ strive to be in the driver's seat during divination then you're probably brainstorming, not divining.
:twocents:twocents:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
*Cracks Knuckles*
~ O M g ~
'Uh..oh...
...S h i-



:lmafo:
:aum:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:If I were a 'god' i'd probably just imagine myself as something less silly than a god and something more like as the most ancient & newest aka primordial entity.



Me too, or a dolphin.
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:And, as such the direct connectivity available to all via all things in all ways by all means seemingly becomes as if everything were already always here now just for the sheer sport of loving to play.



:awesomenod:
Quote:

syncro said:
I thought the progression of the lines in the hex are interesting.




So, the order of lines being - crudely- seen as 'least to most fortuitous' in nature is part of the I Chings structure. Here's what Stephen Karcher says in 'Total I Ching':
"According to this tradition [that of enmeshing the idea of the 8 trigrams as Bagua or spirit helpers, with the view of Wuxing or 5 processes], each hexagram is seen as being made up of two of the Eight Trigrams [in this case Water over Wind], which also connect it to the Five Processes. Between them, the two trigrams involved in a hexagram express the relation and tension between outer and inner worlds. The upper trigram, called the figure of distress or trouble (hui), represents the outer  world. The lower trigram, called the figure of trial/support (zhen), represents the inner world. These two terms reflect an old lunar way of thinking, suggesting the full moon and the dark moon. It was further elaborated to suggest specific meanings for the lien positions based on their place in the inner or outer worlds. The first and sixth lines were seen as entrance and culmination; the second and fifth lines as inner and outer centres; the third and fourth as the threshold of manifestation between the worlds."
example:

Hope that illuminates it for you a bit.
Quote:

syncro said:
Out of the blue, adding with the chakras. Well not so out of the blue as they have alignment. Is this seen with hex's in general?

Muladhara, base of the spine, earth
-The water in this old well has seeped into the mud.
Not even the animals come to drink from it.

Svadhisthana - sacral, water
-Shooting at fish in the well puts holes in the bucket. No one can draw from this well.

Manipura - belly, fire
-This well has been cleansed, but no one will drink from it.
This is a tragic mistake, for it has much to offer prince and pauper alike.

Anahata - heart, air
-The well is carefully retiled, and in time made pure again.

Vishuddha - throat, ether
-The water in this well comes from a cool, deep, inexhaustible spring.

Ajna, forehead, Om
-This well is dependable and available to all.
Supreme good fortune.



:endorse:
:kaneclap:
SYNCRO, YOU'VE JUST BLASTED ME BRO!
:triplaunch:
A LOT to unpack with that, seriously it blasted me.
I've never made that connection to 48, awesome stuff man!

Quote:

syncro said:
Is this seen with hex's in general?



One way to find out! Gonna to have to start overlaying the steps of change of various hex w/ chakra system, middle pillar and kabalistic stuff on tree of life- I'm sure there will be some juicy correlation going on.
:trippinbawelz:

:edit: formatting.

Edited by Lithop (03/01/24 08:25 AM)

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28682426 - 03/01/24 10:47 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

Good stuff Lithop. :wizard:

Yeah the hexagram structure you described aligns well. It seems kind of reversed though in that I would picture, at first was, heart and above, 4, 5, 6, as the inner world.

But we can patch that up finely with quichquatch bosco.

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro]
    #28682446 - 03/01/24 11:05 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

I can do that with the idea of awakening as a coming out in truth, in spirit and helpfulness. Inner like the outer, in another context. :nerd:

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28682558 - 03/01/24 12:46 PM (3 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
"mere hubris"

Sometimes just looking for some help or a viewpoint.




agreed. :thumbup:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro]
    #28682566 - 03/01/24 12:50 PM (3 months, 24 days ago)

just a poor, old, baby tuning fork ringing in of the middling out of the coursing of an oddly weirding yet smoothly evening out sort of an unlimited kinda way.:mushroom2:


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Edited by The Blind Ass (03/01/24 12:59 PM)

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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #28682831 - 03/01/24 04:36 PM (3 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
just a poor, old, baby tuning fork ringing in of the middling out of the coursing of an oddly weirding yet smoothly evening out sort of an unlimited kinda way.:mushroom2:



:waitnonevermind:
This gave me 50% 'Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?' and 50% dharmic remake of 'Brave Little Toaster' but with an eternal & all encompassing tuning fork as the protagonist, kinda vibes. With that being said, I feel I get it... :lol:
How do you feel about partnering on the script ASAP?

...never mind.
:tearchalice:

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 2
    #28683070 - 03/01/24 07:48 PM (3 months, 24 days ago)

:laugh2:


Quote:

p.s.

Hey, magic-8-ball? ....






...Right?!  :awesanta:




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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: The Blind Ass] * 2
    #28688371 - 03/06/24 07:07 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

For anyone interested: Latest DTFH with Robert Ryan is centred on Tarot, fuckin shweet episode!

Intrigued on the inclusion of Hindu iconography and themes to his deck, my GF managed to order one, so I'll no doubt have a look! (maybe time to hit the Gita and Ramayana up again first)
One irksome thing, the cost of shipping is almost equal to that of the deck... I'm all for eco-friendly practises, keeping goods safe in transit etc but about £75 on shipping ALONE for a book, deck and totebag is not my tempo.
:migraine:
So Roberts companion book will go unread here for the time being...

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Offlinedeff
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 2
    #28688552 - 03/06/24 10:57 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

looks like a cool deck! :smile: That shipping fee is definitely very steep though.

I just ordered Benebell Wen's book on I Ching which I'm excited to dive into, I remember you saying you were reading it Lithop. Looks to be a very deep dive at over 900 pages!


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: deff] * 1
    #28689494 - 03/07/24 02:45 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

deff said:
I just ordered Benebell Wen's book on I Ching which I'm excited to dive into, I remember you saying you were reading it Lithop. Looks to be a very deep dive at over 900 pages!



Aww yeah- I'm excited on your behalf! See, that's one I could imagine having savage shipping since it's definitely a tome.
Honestly I reckon you'll be nicely surprised at the scope of it, a deep dive certainly plus her translation/insight on the oracle text itsself is
:chefskiss:
Enjoy and I hope to some discuss some bits with you down the line.
:tmckenna:

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OfflineCurious Coyote
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop]
    #28722492 - 04/01/24 02:20 PM (2 months, 24 days ago)

if time is non-linear or operates in some semi-causal way, then logically all of these possibilities open up. It could be as simple as causality being the case from a human perspective, but on orders of magnitude above such a perspective, suddenly things become strange. Maybe starting much smaller, time in relation to the universe's "age" is dependent on physical location. The speed of time is dependent on local gravity. Just from those two things alone we can see that spacetime has some strange, rather wavy properties.

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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Curious Coyote]
    #28723203 - 04/02/24 04:40 AM (2 months, 23 days ago)

Which possibilities?

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OfflineCurious Coyote
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28723300 - 04/02/24 08:59 AM (2 months, 23 days ago)

Well the really fun one is that it then becomes possible for information from "future" events to be sent to the present without violating causality. This would be because, in a circular geometry of spacetime, the future and the past are indistinguishable; the present is the only distinguishable "time" due to it being the current expression of the whole model. But, you can tweak it more since why stop at a circle? A helix becomes very interesting because, from top-down perspectives, it is a circle, but each recursion moves one across another dimension i.e. now there are multiple dimensions of movement through time, not just forwards and backwards.

Not sure how kooky people are feeling with this stuff (still new to the forums), but Itzhak Bentov goes wild with theories regarding "timelessness." He essentially argues that if consciousness exists as an energy, a wave, then as it hits a peak, it touches infinity for roughly 5.39×10−44 s before resuming normal functioning. Planck time in general is just fascinating on its own. Time becomes chunky. Thicker than a bowl o oatmeal.

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Curious Coyote] * 1
    #28723337 - 04/02/24 09:50 AM (2 months, 23 days ago)

Therefore lateral excursions within the timeline can be expected.

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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28724049 - 04/03/24 03:46 AM (2 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Curious Coyote said:
Well the really fun one is that it then becomes possible for information from "future" events to be sent to the present without violating causality. This would be because, in a circular geometry of spacetime, the future and the past are indistinguishable; the present is the only distinguishable "time" due to it being the current expression of the whole model. But, you can tweak it more since why stop at a circle? A helix becomes very interesting because, from top-down perspectives, it is a circle, but each recursion moves one across another dimension i.e. now there are multiple dimensions of movement through time, not just forwards and backwards.



I really enjoyed the helix idea, awesome illustration! And thanks for clearing that up.
:hereyougo:
How do you reckon relaying future information (assuming it is then acted on) it wouldn't interfer with causality though? For me that's tied into divination as a dialogue with guiding force ('self' originated or otherwise)- as opposed to say- the almanac from back to the future.
Quote:

Curious Coyote said:
Not sure how kooky people are feeling with this stuff (still new to the forums), but Itzhak Bentov goes wild with theories regarding "timelessness." He essentially argues that if consciousness exists as an energy, a wave, then as it hits a peak, it touches infinity for roughly 5.39×10−44 s before resuming normal functioning. Planck time in general is just fascinating on its own. Time becomes chunky. Thicker than a bowl o oatmeal.



:crazymonkey:
First off, I see the allowance for kookiness as pretty wide open here, so don't worry about that- also welcome to the shroomery!
And yeah that's awesome stuff, definitely percieved some chunky time amidst psychedelic experiences...
Been meaning to check out 'Stalking the wild pendulum' for a while, is this the Bentov you recommend/have read?

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Therefore lateral excursions within the timeline can be expected.



I'll/ I've put the kettle on:tongue:

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OfflineCurious Coyote
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28724643 - 04/03/24 04:17 PM (2 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Lithop said:
I really enjoyed the helix idea, awesome illustration! And thanks for clearing that up.
:hereyougo:
How do you reckon relaying future information (assuming it is then acted on) it wouldn't interfer with causality though? For me that's tied into divination as a dialogue with guiding force ('self' originated or otherwise)- as opposed to say- the almanac from back to the future.




I must preface this with the fact that this is all fun to me. I do not imply at all that I am some "expert" in any field. With that being said, we can jump right in!

So in keeping with the helix imagery, let us imagine that our helix sits atop an xy-plane and ascends/descends along a z axis. Travel along the z-axis can be thought of as iterative time, i.e. where along the cycle one is; whereas, the xy-plane can be thought of as the human perspective on time where it is an endlessly repeating, a circle. This may all sound out there, but a cyclical model of the (absolute) universe could work with this. Therefore, in ascending through time, the "past" would occur again. Is it the same? Does the radius or angle of the helix change at all? Are these variables or their own functions, or even sets? Without spiraling out into too much, one could then visit a past by accelerating along the spiral at a faster rate. Physically, this could be thought of as sitting near the event horizon, or within if your life is that dark, of a black hole and slowing down, locally, as a result. You exit your fantasy transporter in the past, extract what information you desire, enter it again, then exit in the next present. The future would be indeterminate because it hasn't happened in the current iteration so theoretically, it would be free to be influenced.

Now, and this probably fits more into your question, could an observer descend the helix? If so, could they descend, ascend, and no violate causality? I imagine so, unless someone can say with absolute certainty such a things is wholly impossible, but how it would work turns my brain into mush. As with all cosmology, things get more spiritual as we walk outside of the human universe. My bigger point is that time as a dimension may be a flawed concept. It may be that it is a space with enclosed dimensions of movement just a helix has a radius, angle, pitch, and handedness in contrast with a circle's radius. What an impact one more dimension has on variability!

That was incredibly long winded so I apologize. Minor sleep deprivation and intellectual excitement! Tl;dr going back in time by going forward would not violate causality. Is causality a universal? who knows?


Quote:

Lithop said:
:crazymonkey:
First off, I see the allowance for kookiness as pretty wide open here, so don't worry about that- also welcome to the shroomery!
And yeah that's awesome stuff, definitely percieved some chunky time amidst psychedelic experiences...
Been meaning to check out 'Stalking the wild pendulum' for a while, is this the Bentov you recommend/have read?




Thank you for the warm welcome! I hope I am closer to finding my tribe, or rather, I hope my tribe is closer to finding me! I feel you on the chunky time. In my dream-like trips, a thought that seems to enjoy popping up is, "how many times have we done this?" It has sort of become my personal "who is john galt," as a nice little existential expression.
And yes that's the book! If a little physics, mathematics, and logic doesn't bother you, it is a most fun read. Makes a lot of the whole Gateway-Monroe rabbit hole a bit easier to navigate in some ways. I still have not found how or why Monroe and Bentov are linked, but that is a whole other topic entirely.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Curious Coyote] * 3
    #28724664 - 04/03/24 04:37 PM (2 months, 22 days ago)

Had an image generator render these earlier this morning.

Saw something about helix just now on this page so I figured
why not blindly jump to conclusions about what’s going on here before reading the entire page.  Maybe I’ll get lucky.
Unlikely… but …. :awesanta:  (< — ik, ik, it explains nothing! :shrug:)

Anyways, Now presenting:

Things & Stuff



Yolo


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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 1
    #28730399 - 04/08/24 06:05 AM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Great comment Coyote, thanks for the reply.
I used to do the Munroe FLACs of Gateway Experience. Quite interesting stuff.
I'm looking forward to many great convos on this stuff upcoming, love the direction you're taking it.
:laugh:
And hey from one usually self conscious long winded commenter to another: type what you wanna type eh if someone paying for their internet by word they can just not read it. Simple as. I for one enjoyed it :thumbup:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
so I figured
why not blindly jump to conclusions about what’s going on here before reading the entire page.  Maybe I’ll get lucky.



:mentos:

Second pic is very "I'll take 'doing the middle pillar ritual on psilohuasca for $200, please Alex."

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OfflineCurious Coyote
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28732972 - 04/10/24 04:07 PM (2 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Lithop said:
Great comment Coyote, thanks for the reply.
I used to do the Munroe FLACs of Gateway Experience. Quite interesting stuff.
I'm looking forward to many great convos on this stuff upcoming, love the direction you're taking it.
:laugh:
And hey from one usually self conscious long winded commenter to another: type what you wanna type eh if someone paying for their internet by word they can just not read it. Simple as. I for one enjoyed it :thumbup:




Well thank you! That is very encouraging. I worry I ramble or lose myself to tangents way to easily so it is good to hear that it's not too much of a mess!
As far as Gateway, I have done it as well and even experimented with doing some exercises on mushrooms (not that they need that). The whole experience is bizarre to say the least. I'd love to do an in person one when I can casually spend $3000 laughs in 3.5% YoY inflation :hahthatsrich:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Had an image generator render these earlier this morning.

Saw something about helix just now on this page so I figured
why not blindly jump to conclusions about what’s going on here before reading the entire page.  Maybe I’ll get lucky.
Unlikely… but …. :awesanta:  (< — ik, ik, it explains nothing! :shrug:)

Anyways, Now presenting:

Things & Stuff



Yolo



How perfect that you mapped it out visually without even diving deep into the conversation. The helix imagery seems to be resonating! Kind of get minor Kabbalah vibes from them.

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