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InvisibleCosm
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kabbalah
    #2869626 - 07/08/04 07:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

does anyone on here practise and live by the Kabbalah? i was looking into this spiritual practise and was wondering if you benefitted from its teachings. thank you


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OfflineZahid
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Cosm]
    #2869667 - 07/08/04 07:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A good site: http://www.kabbalah.info/

I don't think there are actually any real Kabbalists here, but there are some people who know more about it than I do.

Shalom.


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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Cosm]
    #2870668 - 07/09/04 12:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

From what I know, kabbalah is largely an oral tradition that is passed down with very few actual writings available. It is a more mystic-based tradition and usually requires some type of initiation or understanding in that area. There are also many different forms of it practiced today. The most important thing before you start is to assess how you discovered kabbalah, what do you want to achieve through it, and what path would be best to get there..when you are ready everything will just fall into place.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Cosm]
    #2870890 - 07/09/04 12:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you want to know the deal on this subject read "The Tree of Life" by Israel Regardie and then follow with "Magic in Theory and Practice" by Aleister Crowley. It is a very disciplined philosophy comparable to (but not similar to) Taoism or Buddhism. To describe it is a bigger effort than I am willing to expend here when these fine texts exist for the reading.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Cosm]
    #2870899 - 07/09/04 12:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh yeah, also "The Order of the Golden Dawn" by Regardie.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2871880 - 07/09/04 08:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

crowley & his thelemite followers are excellent occult borrowers & synthesists... but uncle al is just not my cup of tea, heh...

there are other writings from closer to the ummmm original sources...

(wasn't there a book _7 & 1/2 mystics_ about kabbalah scholars?)

bound to be some similarities to kundalini methods... similar techniques in channeling cosmic forces in the body using 2 very different languages, snaskrit & hebrew, eh?



shalom


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Cosm]
    #2871901 - 07/09/04 08:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

it is not a practice
the book is called zohar - it is not really available.
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Kabbalah/SeferZohar.htm

but many books called kaballa have been created and marketted.
it is actually a later life mystic review for talmudic scholars (who are jews) and anything taken from it out of context is really just for show, like souvenir plundering - it just wont make sense separated from the carefully lived life already full of that study.

if it is being offered to you in some new age program, you will be paying for friendship and diversion. meantime if you want an examination of a closely related and dependent area you can study TAROT -
http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/pkt/index.htm -
the waite book is best.


Edited by redgreenvines (07/09/04 08:24 AM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: kabbalah [Re: gnrm23]
    #2873141 - 07/09/04 03:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Before Crowley went rogue he was a respected member of a kabbalistic society in Europe called The Order of the Golden Dawn. He was kicked out eventually for being an extremest, but his work on the subject is still considered some of the deepest written. Just because he was crazy as a shit house rat did not mean he didn't have a few good ideas. He also had a great (dark) sense of humor. He was a sociopath though.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2873251 - 07/09/04 04:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

it's that bit about "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" that makes me uncomfortable, i suppose...
oh, i'd never deny he was one smart cookie (though not quite the poet he thought himself to be, but "non gustibus disputandum" as they say...)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: kabbalah [Re: gnrm23]
    #2873265 - 07/09/04 04:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I agree, but his descriptions of the kabbalah are what I was refering to not his personal philosphy. The kabbalah is neutral neither good nor evil.


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OfflineWorldbridger
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Cosm]
    #2873288 - 07/09/04 04:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, I currently am gaining more practice with the cabalah every day.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Worldbridger]
    #2873302 - 07/09/04 04:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is a cool philosophy. It was one of the earlier stops on my road and worth exploring.


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OfflineBlue_Apocalypse
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Cosm]
    #2873317 - 07/09/04 04:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

While its true that The Golden Dawn has many documents on kabbalah and they used it in their practices, Im not sure if it would be the correct way to learn traditional kabalah if thats what your interested in. If you are interested in the kabalah as it pertains to contemporary western mysticism, then the golden dawn is a very good source if you can get your hands on anything.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Blue_Apocalypse]
    #2873322 - 07/09/04 04:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is certainly the best introduction you could get. The actual practice can be modified over a broad range of parameters.


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OfflineWorldbridger
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2873332 - 07/09/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Before Crowley went rogue he was a respected member of a kabbalistic society in Europe called The Order of the Golden Dawn. He was kicked out eventually for being an extremest, but his work on the subject is still considered some of the deepest written. Just because he was crazy as a shit house rat did not mean he didn't have a few good ideas. He also had a great (dark) sense of humor. He was a sociopath though.




Aleister Crowley has many great sources to read on all sorts of things, including the Cabalah. As for being a sociopath, who is to say that isn't just hyped misinformation spread around. I have read some of the extremes of his writings, but I don't know enough about him to make an accurate judgment. One thing I know, is he does seem to be aware of the extremes of his practices and clearly admits to them for example his writings of his drug addictions.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Worldbridger]
    #2873341 - 07/09/04 04:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"As for being a sociopath, who is to say that isn't just hyped misinformation spread around."

I think the do as thou wilt thing confirms the sociopath part...


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: kabbalah [Re: Cosm]
    #2873623 - 07/09/04 05:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Kabbalah, sometimes spelled Cabala, or even Qabala by followers of Aleister Crowley (yet the first spelling is used by Jewish scholars) has been claimed in recent times by New Agers, by occultists of the 19th-20th centuries (Eliphas Levi, MacGregor Mathers, Israel Regardie, Aleister Crowley), and perhaps worst of all by Madonna. In a 'South Beach Magazine' that I looked at yesterday, the 'Material Girl' wore a red thread on her left wrist, indicating her belief in Kabbalah. Now, I do not believe that one needs to be a practicing Jew, with a decent familiarity with the Torah (the 1st five books of the Bible, or the Five Books of Moses), or know a lot about the Jewish Talmud, or the Mishnah, but Madonna's involvement with this esoteric and Holy discipline is but another profanation of the sacred, like her decorative use of crucifix earings, and the video that insulted Hindus.

Kabbalah, especially the Lurianic school, was compiled in the Middle Ages. Even though its framework - the Anatomy of GOD - the Sephirothic Tree of Life has been merged with Ceremonial Magic, Tarot, Alexandrian Wicca and other things, it is first and foremost a Path which helps map which aspects of GOD's 10 personal energies or attributes (not the Limitless Godhead Named Ein Sof, about which nothing can be said) are interfacing with our human beinghood at any moment. I don't know what ol' Madonna claims, but I would venture strictly from pure Intuition that anything that she says is utter bulls**t. Kabbalah is a Holy involvement. It presupposes belief in the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and of Jesus. Christian Kabbalism does exist, and Trinitarian concepts can fit the model very nicely (e.g., Keter=God the Father, Daat=Holy Spirit, Tiphereth=the Son; or the Supernal Father [Wisdom] and Supernal Mother [Understanding] illustrate that GOD is Father-Mother like the Aramaic Name of GOD 'Abwoon' indicates).

I recommend one book at this time: Adam and the Kabbalistic Tree by Z'ev ben Shimon Halevi. No occult overtones or applications, but practical spiritual, psychological and physical examples of where one is in the spheres and pathways; the Tree as it exists in the Four Worlds (Physical, Archetypal, Angelic and Divine) and how the Trees overlap like 'Jacob's Ladder' to traverse the Worlds. Someone like Crowley was SO ostentatious that he describes how he 'crossed the Abyss [of Da'at],' etc., etc., which from truly esoteric [Kabbalistic] Jewish perspective is just ridiculous. This book explains a great deal. I was so impressed, that I built a wooden model of the Kabbalistic Tree for my votive table not too long ago. Hope this helps.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: kabbalah [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2873696 - 07/09/04 06:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A very informed summation. You seem quite knowledgeable on this subject.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: kabbalah - you don't have to be jewish but [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2873873 - 07/09/04 07:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well it's not like eating gefilte fish - that would taste the same regardless of your background.

let us say that after 30 years of these trip reports and of using psychedellics every week or more often, we, here, had developed a few assumptions and assigned a symbolic language, to those aggreed upon assumptions, and let us say we codified them and wrote them down, and
then passed that on to others interested in exactly the same thing.

it would probably have many attractive features, and some people not interested in psychedellics, might pick it up and decide to sell it.

that is how clever picking up kaballa is, when you have not been a talmudic scholar.

it is a raid upon alien gems that you can marvel at quizzically, but for which you can't be authoritative nor to which you can add, it is not a live thing in that way - if you are not part of it, as it would be if you were groomed to it, or if fundamentally interested in it's cuture, just a bunch of stuff out of context used to flog someone else's power grab over your belief based real estate.

Note it is not a direct transmission of methods like zen, or like yoga. It is thick culture and rife with many subtle and arcane biblical references and is not even for talmudic scholars under 35 years of age...

in a way this is such a big deal over scraps from an old private men's book club.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: kabbalah - you don't have to be jewish but [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2873995 - 07/09/04 08:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The Kabbalah is not a purely ethnic tradition, though it had origins in ancient Jewish mysticism. While I feel it is a bit too complex for my taste, many like the complexity and feel that it lends this mode of thought depth. I have known several very authoritative persons who practiced Kabbalah, and I don't feel that their practice was anything less than genuine. To say that no one in this day and place can practice it because it had origins in another culture is a fallacy. All of the major religions have ethnic origins that are outside the culture of most Americans. Christianity was originally a middle eastern religion that migrated west. To think that one must read Hebrew and know the Talmud forwards and backwards to understand it is also false. By reading the classics of the genre one can come to understand the Kabbalah in a genuine fashion. Refer to MarkostheGnostic post above as it is very well informed.


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