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Offlineriseupandfight
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Stalled Grain Jars (Oat)
    #28675789 - 02/25/24 05:08 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)


First attempt with grain jars following Bod’s Oat Tek, I’m not sure if I the grains didn’t absorb enough water or what happened but things were going pretty well the first few weeks.

Most of the jars appeared to be colonizing well and I thought I was about ready to throw into a bull substrate. I decided to shake one more time to make sure it was fully colonized and I’m doing so noticed that it was mostly just the edges that were colonized.

I thought this would help in the long run….I was wrong.
In the above photo you can see that the grain looks like it’s <10% colonized.

It’s been a week since the last shake and things aren’t looking too hopeful.

Could it be that the inside of the grains are full of mycelium and it’s run out of nutrients?

Should I try adding to bull substrate or start from scratch.

*Note: MSS inoculation, I’m ordering plates to do agar now that I’m a bit more knowledgeable and realize that I should have started out this way.

Anyways, I’d appreciate if someone could give me some insight or suggestions. I’m not quite ready to give up and I know that I’ll get it right eventually! 💪

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OfflineAspectOfTheCreator
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: riseupandfight] * 2
    #28675798 - 02/25/24 05:15 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

That big ball of grains at the top leads me to believe its toast and I wouldnt waste more materials spawning it. It should also only take about 2 weeks for a quart sized grain jar to colonize from a 1" x 1" wedge of agar.

Id start over, this time with agar inoculant. Id also use wbs instead of oats.

Never give up.


--------------------

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Offlineriseupandfight
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: AspectOfTheCreator]
    #28675869 - 02/25/24 06:10 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

Thanks for the encouragement!

I forgot to mention, that big ball of grains is where the mycelium was very densely colonized.

I'm open to trying WBS, but I did buy a 50lb bag of the oats. I'm wondering if I should have done the overnight soak, and I remember that I didn't wait until the water was completely boiling to start the timer, but I was a bit afraid of bursting shells of the grains.

Maybe the grain spawn is just too dry and that's what the issue was. No visible contamination, just completely stalled growth.

**Also I find it odd that Bodha doesn't recommend soaking anymore but uses water from soaks for agar recipes?

Have you done MSS to agar? I'm wondering what the timeline is typically until its ready to inoculate with?

Edited by riseupandfight (02/25/24 06:14 PM)

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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: riseupandfight]
    #28675876 - 02/25/24 06:14 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

Yeah you can keep it around while youre working on your agar game but I wouldn't do anything with it unless it recovers. What do you have for a lid there? Looks weird.

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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: riseupandfight]
    #28675886 - 02/25/24 06:17 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

MSS to agar, since you want to do at least a couple transfers to make sure it's clean, you're looking at minimum a month and half to 2 months at least before it will be ready to inoculate grain.

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Offlineriseupandfight
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: Hysteria]
    #28675920 - 02/25/24 06:31 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Hysteria said:
MSS to agar, since you want to do at least a couple transfers to make sure it's clean, you're looking at minimum a month and half to 2 months at least before it will be ready to inoculate grain.




Daaaang, the waiting is kiiiiling me! I'm tempted to try MSS to grain while waiting and save plenty of solution to use for the agar plates.

I know plenty of people have had success with the oats, do you think it's a moisture content issue?


Quote:

Hysteria said:
Yeah you can keep it around while youre working on your agar game but I wouldn't do anything with it unless it recovers. What do you have for a lid there? Looks weird.




Haha, I know it's probably unnecessary but I put coffee filters on top for added security, I was a bit worried about contaminating when shaking the jars.

**I'd also like to mention that I have the jars in an incubation chamber using the double stacked tubs and a fish tank heater. This has been great for maintaining optimal temps but I do leave a lid on top of the sterlite to keep the heat in. You would think there would be plenty of air do not affect things too much but maybe this is also an issue?

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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: riseupandfight] * 1
    #28675948 - 02/25/24 06:49 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

riseupandfight said:
Daaaang, the waiting is kiiiiling me! I'm tempted to try MSS to grain while waiting and save plenty of solution to use for the agar plates.

I know plenty of people have had success with the oats, do you think it's a moisture content issue?




I mean, we don't advise MSS to grain because of the high risk of failure, but since you only need 1 drop per agar plate, have at it if you wanna play with the extra, although you would be much better off doing PF TEK with it.

It's hard to tell from the pics if it's bacterial or a grain issue.

Quote:

riseupandfight said:
Haha, I know it's probably unnecessary but I put coffee filters on top for added security, I was a bit worried about contaminating when shaking the jars.

**I'd also like to mention that I have the jars in an incubation chamber using the double stacked tubs and a fish tank heater. This has been great for maintaining optimal temps but I do leave a lid on top of the sterlite to keep the heat in. You would think there would be plenty of air do not affect things too much but maybe this is also an issue?




So it seems like you're doing several things wrong here. There is no need for a heater or anything. In fact it could encourage bacteria to thrive or mess with your grain. Just leave them on a shelf. I got jars with unmodded lids going and its only 64-66F in the room. They are just sitting on a small table, chugging along a little on the slow side but otherwise fine. What does your lid look like besides the coffee filter (unnecessary)?

Also, get used to waiting. Doing this properly will teach you patience by force.

Edited by Hysteria (02/25/24 06:50 PM)

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Offlineriseupandfight
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: Hysteria]
    #28676004 - 02/25/24 07:21 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

I’ll take some pics when I’m able to. It’s just a 1/4 hole with polyfill for the lids. I understand that for most people heating isn’t necessary but from what I understand, growth would be stalled. The temperature drops to 50 in the room, poor heating over here. Before I got the temperatures stable and dialed in, there was a few times when the temp inside the chamber reached between 82-86F. It doesn’t get above 81 anymore.

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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: riseupandfight]
    #28676061 - 02/25/24 07:58 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

Ok, 1/4" with polyfil work great. Just ditch the coffee filters lol.

If temp is an issue you're better off heating the ambient air than applying direct heat with a pad.

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Offlineriseupandfight
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: Hysteria]
    #28676090 - 02/25/24 08:11 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

Haha alright so no on the coffee filters. I hear you about heating the ambient air, and originally what I did was point a space heater in the area, however it was extremely challenging to keep the right temperatures. At least by the sounds of it my agar plates will be ready to inoculate with when we’re well into spring so this won’t be such an issue.

And yes, I’m working on the patience thing Mr Miagi 🤪

Edited by riseupandfight (02/25/24 08:15 PM)

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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: riseupandfight]
    #28676113 - 02/25/24 08:25 PM (10 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

riseupandfight said:
Haha alright so no on the coffee filters. I hear you about heating the ambient air, and originally what I did was point a space heater in the area, however it was extremely challenging to keep the right temperatures. At least by the sounds of it my agar plates will be ready to inoculate with when we’re well into spring so this won’t be such an issue.

And yes, I’m working on the patience thing Mr Miagi 🤪




:rofl:

Mr. Miyagi was a goddamn American hero.

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InvisibleImatryin
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: riseupandfight]
    #28676329 - 02/25/24 10:57 PM (10 months, 15 days ago)

Don’t be in such a hurry with the MSS to grain thing. Relax. Don’t do it.

Edited by Imatryin (02/25/24 10:57 PM)

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Offlineriseupandfight
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: Hysteria]
    #28677198 - 02/26/24 04:53 PM (10 months, 15 days ago)

Yes indeedy do!

I'm still trying to wrap my head around isolating the best genetics.

From what I understand, MS inoculations will yield greater genetic variety and potentially give you a greater chance at finding great genetics based off of the actual fruits. Rhizomorphic growth has very little to do with fruiting right?

Since we are going the agar route this time, I shouldn't be worried about finding isolates, but I should be transferring to ensure there is clean growth of mycelium without contamination. Is this a correct assumption?

I know there is somewhere where RR talks about finding an isolate and testing each one out separately through their own grow. Sounds like a fun project but if your goal is to find consistently good fruits quickly would this be the best route to go?

I also understand that some fruits can actually be a mixture of isolates. Is it possible that this combination produces better fruits than the isolates by themselves?

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OfflineHysteria
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: riseupandfight]
    #28677435 - 02/26/24 07:56 PM (10 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

riseupandfight said:
Yes indeedy do!

I'm still trying to wrap my head around isolating the best genetics.

From what I understand, MS inoculations will yield greater genetic variety and potentially give you a greater chance at finding great genetics based off of the actual fruits. Rhizomorphic growth has very little to do with fruiting right?Correct, it's just easier to see contams.


Since we are going the agar route this time, I shouldn't be worried about finding isolates, but I should be transferring to ensure there is clean growth of mycelium without contamination. Is this a correct assumption? Yes.

I know there is somewhere where RR talks about finding an isolate and testing each one out separately through their own grow. Sounds like a fun project but if your goal is to find consistently good fruits quickly would this be the best route to go? Best way to go is to send your fastest, cleanest agar to grain and then take clones of your best fruits from that tub. Trying to isolate tons on agar at once is still a crapshoot when it comes to the grow, and yes, there will be less genetics to choose clones from.

I also understand that some fruits can actually be a mixture of isolates. Is it possible that this combination produces better fruits than the isolates by themselves? Don't know enough to give a solid answer on this one, sorry.



Edited by Hysteria (02/26/24 08:01 PM)

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Offlineriseupandfight
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Registered: 02/11/24
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Re: Stalled Grain Jars (Oat) [Re: Hysteria]
    #28678590 - 02/27/24 04:59 PM (10 months, 14 days ago)

Thanks buddy!

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