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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: microbiome88] * 2
    #28666333 - 02/19/24 05:18 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

microbiome88 said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
and helping me learn how to make great moments more frequent and last longer.




Can you say more about this RGV?



Yes,
I have found that the frame stacking effects of psychedelics naturally extend the duration of each impression (we get enhanced sensations and trails etc.) AND I have found that the same thing happens when we are emotional.
When I relax into the effect, it is as if time is stopping or at least slowing down.
This is a wonderful thing that I enjoy about psychedelics and life itself, i.e. being able to pause and sit with good experiences and with good people.

When I was very young (before lsd for sure) I imagined that making time stop or slow down would make time with friends more special, and I knew it was already happening and wanted more of that.


--------------------
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Onlineepilectric
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28666865 - 02/19/24 12:52 PM (4 months, 4 days ago)

amazing. i feel when i'm sober/caffeinated (and back in the days, when i was drinking alcohol), time goes by so fast.

vaped, psyched or k'd out, i have so much more of time which is why i turn to the vape daily 😊


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: epilectric] * 1
    #28666903 - 02/19/24 01:29 PM (4 months, 4 days ago)

Definition of atheist depends on definition of God. There ar loads of types of God concepts that I don't believe in. But I have experienced connections between myself and others, most often but not exclusively while tripping, that are to me, what God is. Not a discrete separate entity.

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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: Neurotech] * 2
    #28666925 - 02/19/24 01:40 PM (4 months, 4 days ago)

Psychedelics have made me much more spiritual and I’m all the better for it.
I’m not talking about “God” either it’s still an unsettling other realm a great spirit;
Wakan Tanka


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"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

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OfflineSoloist
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: Neurotech] * 7
    #28666943 - 02/19/24 01:47 PM (4 months, 4 days ago)

Spirituality and sacred isn’t synonymously tied to theism.
An atheist can be extremely spiritual and hold places, events, items as sacred.
As mentioned before I feel a lot of it has to do with where you start out, internally.

Atheist literally just means the lack of belief in theism -


The·ism
noun
belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.


Anything else is fair game.

For me, there is nothing more spiritual than knowing that we are all made of stardust, that all life and the entire universe is connected- that everything is energy and energy doesn’t cease, it just changes form.
It’s been that way long before psychedelics.
And that ain’t got nothing to do with “god”.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: yanti] * 5
    #28669390 - 02/21/24 09:00 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

I think psychedelics provide a window into the kinds of mystical experiences that form the foundation of religion in the first place. :mushroom2:

The idea is that religions don't originate from people sitting around having a rational discussion and deciding that a God must have created everything, but from the kind of spontaneous experiences that turn people into shamans, mystics and prophets, even without drugs.

It can be hard to relate to the full-blown mystical states of ego loss (related to esoteric Buddhist traditions) described in Leary's "The Psychedelic Experience," but other descriptions of religious experiences also have something in common with tripping. William James and "The Varieties of Religious Experience" is another book where descriptions of mystical states sound a lot like tripping.

Rudolf Otto wrote about the "numinous" and the "mysterium tremendum" to try and describe a certain state which is recognizable if you've ever took too much and felt intimidated by the raw power of the trip; the feeling that you are facing something "other."

:scaryshroom:

There's a good description here, I'll quote a bit of it:
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/english/melani/gothic/numinous.html

Quote:


Numinous dread: Otto calls the feeling of numinous dread, aka awe or awe-fullness, the mysterium tremendum. C.S. Lewis's illustration makes clear the nature of numinous dread and its difference from ordinary fear:

    "Suppose you were told that there was a tiger in the next room: you would know that you were in danger and would probably feel fear...Now suppose that you were told simply "There is a might spirit in the room" and believed it. Your feelings would then be even less like the mere fear of danger: but the disturbance would be profound. You would feel wonder and a certain shrinking–described as awe, and the object which excites it is the Numinous."

The mysterium tremendum implies three qualities of the numinous:

    a. its absolute unapproachability,
    b. its power,
    c. its urgency or energy, a force which is most easily perceived in the "wrath of God."

Stupor: Because the mysterium tremendum is wholly Other, i.e., is unlike anything that we have encountered or ever will encounter, it arouses in us a mental state of stupor, a "blank wonder, an astonishment that strikes us dumb, amazement absolute."

Otto explains, "The daemonic-divine object may appear to the mind an object of horror and dread, but at the same time it is no less something that allures with a potent charm

...Creature-consciousness and the simultaneous experiencing of the self as nothing. Creature-consciousness is the awareness of ourselves as having being or of existing.

The numinous has another aspect which co-exists with the mysterium tremendum, the power to fascination. The numinous fascinates or draws us to it with a force that is nearly irresistible. Otto calls the alluring quality of the numinous the mysterium fascinosum. At its most intense, this fascination becomes "exuberant" and transforms into the mystical "moment" or direct, complete contact with the numen, a state which few people experience. The numinous dread and the fascinating "combine in a strange harmony of contrasts," which Otto calls the mysterium tremendum and fascinosum...




:sunstone:

To me this sounds a lot like the experience of tripping at high doses. It can be interpreted in a direct religious way, as an encounter with God, or in a manner closer to Buddhism and Leary's ideas of ego loss, as some sort of entity contact, or some crazy sci-fi mixture of ancient aliens inside the matrix. Your cultural background inevitably conditions how you experience this, but that doesn't mean you get to choose the way in which it manifests during a trip, or from one trip to another. God one time, aliens another.

:raptorjesus: :owl: :creepyalien:

You can end up having a religious experience you didn't want and encounter a God you don't believe in, such as in this trip report I posted years ago: Pans Cyans: Outrageous Visuals, God & the Zoo Inside My Brain

These kind of experiences don't necessarily change your sober beliefs (just as you don't need to assume that entities you encounter in a trip are real aliens), but they can give an insight into the power behind religious belief and make you a bit less dismissive of spirituality. It's like "I don't believe in God but I know what it's like to encounter one." A half-hearted "belief" in God based mainly on cultural expectations seems pale in comparison.

I've found this kind of experience is almost unavoidable at a certain dose range. If the potency is good, I will encounter something numinous and "other" and it will feel eerily familiar, arriving with a very strong sense that it is real. That's another important thing about these kind of trips - the high dose brings a sense of certainty about what you are encountering, you cross over into a headspace where the supernatural feels real and a sense of awe radiates from the glyphs on the walls.

:aliceshocker: :feelsshroomyman:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: Aldebaran] * 1
    #28669406 - 02/21/24 09:05 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

nicely put.  :cheers:


--------------------
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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: nooneman] * 5
    #28670122 - 02/21/24 05:59 PM (4 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Psychedelics amplify preexisting belief. If you're an athiest before, it'll make you more so. If you're religious before, it'll make you more of that.





Not for myself...

Ever since I was a kid I was an extremely cold-hard-logic scientific & materialist minded sorta person.

Even when going to church with grandparents around 4 to 5 years old, I had way too many questions and was never a believer.

Up until my early/mid 20s I labeled myself as an atheist.

Psychedelics really opened me up though, from direct experience as well as logic/thought experiments while tripping.



These days I consider myself sorta agnostic, actually kinda difficult to lump my beliefs/view point into a category...because I do not believe in "God" and I don't believe in or follow any religion or any dogma what so ever, but I absolutely do believe there is far more beyond this material/physical realm that we perceive with our senses and default mode of consciousness and that there is far more to this reality/universe than "the big bang happened and there's no meaning or point to any of it". I believe there is an essence/spirit of sorts in all of us and all living things (I know these terms come loaded with baggage and woo-woo fluff comes to mind, I don't really have the vocabulary to describe/label such tho).

I believe there is some sort of point to "all of this" and some THING created it...what the point is and what the "thing" is, I don't know...but there's something going on here....

I suppose my view/beliefs would be considered "the hermetic view"...I view and ponder reality through "hermetic philosophy"; the principals of mentalism, correspondence, vibration, polarity, rhythm, cause and effect, and gender.

Hermetics and Taoism would relate the most to my philosophy/view of reality.

Framing different thought experiments through the lens of hermetic philosophy with a headful of LSD and/or mushrooms has really broke me away from having a purely materialist/cold logic/atheistic sort view.


That said...I'm still very much a scientifically minded person, but I've realized science can't touch or explain the meta-physical aspects of our existence/reality (yet).


Kinda scatter-brained at the moment, wish I could get all my thoughts/feels about this into something concise.


But psychedelics didn't amplify my pre-existing beliefs, they totally dissolved all of my pre-existing beliefs and allowed me to ponder about such with out "myself/ego" or "my beliefs" in the way.





-OM

.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: openmind] * 3
    #28670439 - 02/21/24 08:50 PM (4 months, 2 days ago)

I like to acknowledge that real experiences occur without clear explanations, like synchronicites, especially with other people. I think that it is normal because we are part of life and life is larger than our bodies, and our bodies naturally evolved to respond to things that we never trained for as well.
This does not make me want to explain everything with one idea, and it bugs me when a person uses the event  (synchronicity) to support their view of god or angels or whatever.

It is more valuable to me as a mystery, solved or unsolved, but not attributed to an ignorant belief. I love the mystery of it.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: openmind]
    #28670478 - 02/21/24 09:14 PM (4 months, 2 days ago)

That was a great read, thank you openmind :justastonishing:


--------------------
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OfflineBardy
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: redgreenvines] * 3
    #28670712 - 02/22/24 01:05 AM (4 months, 2 days ago)

I love the mystery too. The fact that there is no explanation and likely will never be kind of makes me feel good.

God is just a word. A word for something no one understands.

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OfflinePancyanterA
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: Bardy] * 2
    #28671047 - 02/22/24 08:45 AM (4 months, 2 days ago)

I was hardcore atheist growing up. Started as a child. I questioned God’s existence and I hated that we have to poop almost as much as I hated that we have to die.

Going to church one time changed me. I had been before. I went to please somebody but I absolutely felt something in my heart this time. Like I wanted to cry and I felt a weight lifted off my shoulders like I was no longer fighting.

However, I wouldn’t call myself a Christian. I believe strongly in God but that is just a word. Muslims have different views on God than Christians. Christians have different ideas of what this word means. They argue and divide. Some say gays go to hell but some gays are Christians.

In my opinion all religions are tapping into the source that we call God. And they’re corrupted by man. When people say “the Bible says….!!!” I shudder and go deaf. I have no time for this conversation once that logic is brought in.

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OfflineJanus62
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: PancyanterA] * 2
    #28671110 - 02/22/24 09:16 AM (4 months, 2 days ago)

I'm an atheist, just like a friend of mine who created this
but when tripping on shrooms or K, I feel a connection with EVERYTHING, and to me, that's a truly spiritual experience.

(Really worth watching the video by the way).


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🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼    🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿

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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: Janus62]
    #28671204 - 02/22/24 10:35 AM (4 months, 2 days ago)

Cool vid. A few months ago I was up in Mendocino Country camping and mushroom foraging. It was a new moon and clear night and I spent a long time marveling while staring at the Milky Way.
It was a great meditation and I agree with his vid it makes all the difference trying to actually consider what it is we are looking at.

My critique is he falls into proselytizing himself. Which intern just feels like preaching to the choir.


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

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OfflineJanus62
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #28671217 - 02/22/24 10:50 AM (4 months, 2 days ago)

Mendocino Country looks amazing - his experience was at a camp site in Sheringham on the East coast of the UK, nowhere near as scenic.

I hear you, but the point is that even a hardened and cynical atheist was able to experience wonder in a way that could be considered spiritual, and share that experience with others who might be searching for answers that religion couldn't give them.


--------------------
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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: Janus62] * 1
    #28671228 - 02/22/24 10:58 AM (4 months, 2 days ago)

Ah gotcha yeah that comes across. I guess I didn’t really consider him an atheist. It’s one of those terms that is so big and used in such aggressive ways (for and against) that it needs to be defined per situation before the other foot drops.

I guess I’m realizing I not only disagree with labels but tend to ignore them because they usually cloud my own interpretation of what is being said. I actually just realized I skipped over it in every post on this thread.


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28671286 - 02/22/24 12:02 PM (4 months, 1 day ago)

I agree, RGV, the existence of synchronicity (and maybe telepathy as a form of synchronicity) does not result in a unified theory. But to me, it reflects what you talked about as far as being part of life greater than our bodies (which include a few pounds of gray and white matter) and suggests that we are all connected in a way that we cannot understand (the mystery you speak of) in the default mode but that is nevertheless very real.

Reminds me of a day in synagogue when I was a tripping teen (although not that day) and the rabbi spoke about the "Mysterium Tremendum". lol sounds like a Harry Potter spell now. This just spurred me on to read up on those words and I found the following worth a read: https://www.magiscenter.com/blog/mysterium-tremendum-et-fascinans-numen

Namaste

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: yanti] * 3
    #28671293 - 02/22/24 12:06 PM (4 months, 1 day ago)

Why limit oneself to 1 of 3 positions,
Spacetime, the Earth, its inhabitants surrely like sporting any position which has enough wiggle room to bail out of for another position, and so on and so forth.  The mind's seemingly constantly changing, who can't attest to that if paying any attention whatsoever to what's happening in and of the world all around them?

Notice, how agnosticism, atheism, and theism can all be entertained simultaneously ~ and beyond perhaps some understanding as to the intricacies of the knots of matter we call ourselves?  Are they really, truly, mutually exclusive?  I seriously and highly doubt it. ~ it seems more like some confusion has pilled upon more confusion and then some and then people wonder why we can't just get along?  Cut through the gordian knot of mind ~ regardless of one's "position(s)" ~ and what's left...lol...everything!

Nothing astronomically lifechanging occurs as a result.  Even if we experience some unfamiliar mode of being wherein we seem to know things beyond our scope, ie: mystically empowered, or, (i'd just call it more heightened, or, sensitively aware of what one's sensing, either with an exogenous helper in the mix or simply with an endogenous mix in the mix) ~ if such a 'super' experience comes...and it goes...then its simply natural territory, so to speak, thus ~ its natural ~ and as such, its simply part of one's life as remembered via one's semipermeable memoryscape, subject to change just as the same as usual, albeit special in some ways yet quite ordinary really in many other ways.

One could argue beliefs about things we cannot know for a shared fact between those with clarity of mind & good or soundly demonstrabible reason, are in some ways more like coping mechanisms; or, said another way, forms to aid one's adapting to changes to their ongoing respective (organism) lifeform's overall situation.

At the very least then they're more appropriately minded; unlike when if while taking any limited, changeable, transient position as invariably equaling an unchanging, absolute, ultimated, and fully final truth; which, would entail constantly regarding all things in all ways, in all exactitudes, in all aspects, in truly equal measure in all parts and relationships altogether across and or throughout the entirety of spacetime all at once forever and ever...

  In short, that's simply not humanly possible.

What is already happening, even if once we've come to our senses is a wild, wide, open world of countless interconnected operations playing together ~ are still more like slices of what's actually happening in many other respects which cannot be directly perceived as such, at least, not as we are now.

Still, coming to, and, being with what's included with all that's entailed of the shared world of the human familia within the cosmos, insofar as we can acquaint ourselves with whatever seemingly is; especially with its inhabitants, and, better still if in some harmoniously adapatible fashion as per the ever more adaptive response as per appropriability with respect to a place wherein passions run high and delusion runs amuck and suffering is ubiquitously experienced by all living sentient lifeforms?

In my limited experience and crudely written opinion ~ the aforementioned has proven to be a far greater way ~ far more possible way, a far better way of getting along with ~ rather limiting oneself to that of a or even just a few positions which, if taken in a manner which ignores the wisdom of any other potentially possible positions which can also harbor some wisdom (plus, some fiery delusion & ignorance) due to ignorantly obeying whatever maybe dictated by one's presupposed 'position' as per atheism, agnosticism, and atheism ~ when encountering something which doesn't 'fit' one's position? 

Then one's 'position' isn't even as accommodating as that of nature itself.  Which is kind of ridiculous if you simply pause and notice it as such for some length of time on the regular...its always accommodating whatever actually is.  Unlike say, some groups with exclusive rules and or dogmas precluding other groups due to something a human being has 'decided', and then posited as truth.

...inspired or not?  W/e, every human being can be just as inspired, I say.

If anything, nature itself ~ simultaneously unified, divided, and multiplicatively expressed as with or in any of all of its respective myriad forms?  Yeah, there's a pretty good & worthy 'teacher', so to speak, at least its available.

Plus, what else is as interdependable, and, both here with us & anywhere else within, upon, or around the earth and its inhabitants from which to learn of, about, or from, and  w i t h:goodmorning:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (02/22/24 12:20 PM)

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OfflineMatthew_11
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: yanti]
    #28672238 - 02/23/24 03:09 AM (4 months, 1 day ago)

You seem overly judgemental.

People are people, we're all just trying to make sense of things as best we can. I went from agnostic to Buddhist, to philosophies such as anatta and sunyata. It was a gradual process to make sense of a single trip which affected me unlike any other of the dozen I'd had, one that broke my reality into pieces. I considered mental illness but years along I've not reached the clinical definition. Maybe schizophrenia will rear its head one day.

For now, is idealism a mental illness? Is having a different ontological view of reality from your own mentally ill?

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Onlineepilectric
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Re: Tripped 40 or so times. Athiest [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28672261 - 02/23/24 03:58 AM (4 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Why limit oneself to 1 of 3 positions,
Spacetime, the Earth, its inhabitants surrely like sporting any position which has enough wiggle room to bail out of for another position, and so on and so forth.  The mind's seemingly constantly changing, who can't attest to that if paying any attention whatsoever to what's happening in and of the world all around them?

Notice, how agnosticism, atheism, and theism can all be entertained simultaneously ~ and beyond perhaps some understanding as to the intricacies of the knots of matter we call ourselves?  Are they really, truly, mutually exclusive?  I seriously and highly doubt it. ~ it seems more like some confusion has pilled upon more confusion and then some and then people wonder why we can't just get along?  Cut through the gordian knot of mind ~ regardless of one's "position(s)" ~ and what's left...lol...everything!

Nothing astronomically lifechanging occurs as a result.  Even if we experience some unfamiliar mode of being wherein we seem to know things beyond our scope, ie: mystically empowered, or, (i'd just call it more heightened, or, sensitively aware of what one's sensing, either with an exogenous helper in the mix or simply with an endogenous mix in the mix) ~ if such a 'super' experience comes...and it goes...then its simply natural territory, so to speak, thus ~ its natural ~ and as such, its simply part of one's life as remembered via one's semipermeable memoryscape, subject to change just as the same as usual, albeit special in some ways yet quite ordinary really in many other ways.

One could argue beliefs about things we cannot know for a shared fact between those with clarity of mind & good or soundly demonstrabible reason, are in some ways more like coping mechanisms; or, said another way, forms to aid one's adapting to changes to their ongoing respective (organism) lifeform's overall situation.

At the very least then they're more appropriately minded; unlike when if while taking any limited, changeable, transient position as invariably equaling an unchanging, absolute, ultimated, and fully final truth; which, would entail constantly regarding all things in all ways, in all exactitudes, in all aspects, in truly equal measure in all parts and relationships altogether across and or throughout the entirety of spacetime all at once forever and ever...

  In short, that's simply not humanly possible.

What is already happening, even if once we've come to our senses is a wild, wide, open world of countless interconnected operations playing together ~ are still more like slices of what's actually happening in many other respects which cannot be directly perceived as such, at least, not as we are now.

Still, coming to, and, being with what's included with all that's entailed of the shared world of the human familia within the cosmos, insofar as we can acquaint ourselves with whatever seemingly is; especially with its inhabitants, and, better still if in some harmoniously adapatible fashion as per the ever more adaptive response as per appropriability with respect to a place wherein passions run high and delusion runs amuck and suffering is ubiquitously experienced by all living sentient lifeforms?

In my limited experience and crudely written opinion ~ the aforementioned has proven to be a far greater way ~ far more possible way, a far better way of getting along with ~ rather limiting oneself to that of a or even just a few positions which, if taken in a manner which ignores the wisdom of any other potentially possible positions which can also harbor some wisdom (plus, some fiery delusion & ignorance) due to ignorantly obeying whatever maybe dictated by one's presupposed 'position' as per atheism, agnosticism, and atheism ~ when encountering something which doesn't 'fit' one's position? 

Then one's 'position' isn't even as accommodating as that of nature itself.  Which is kind of ridiculous if you simply pause and notice it as such for some length of time on the regular...its always accommodating whatever actually is.  Unlike say, some groups with exclusive rules and or dogmas precluding other groups due to something a human being has 'decided', and then posited as truth.

...inspired or not?  W/e, every human being can be just as inspired, I say.

If anything, nature itself ~ simultaneously unified, divided, and multiplicatively expressed as with or in any of all of its respective myriad forms?  Yeah, there's a pretty good & worthy 'teacher', so to speak, at least its available.

Plus, what else is as interdependable, and, both here with us & anywhere else within, upon, or around the earth and its inhabitants from which to learn of, about, or from, and  w i t h:goodmorning:




oh my, what a read... so far i made it through the first paragraph :laugh: maybe i'll try again after a line of speed..


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

https://soundcloud.com/cyberhops/tracks

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