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tree frog
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SupaThaRipper] 2
#28669264 - 02/21/24 07:41 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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All Pans?
The Cyans seem to be putting out nice looking fruits but the Bisporus not so much.
Maybe I'll let them run on dryer substrate and experiment with side watering as pins are setting.
I have a hand pump mister, so dialing it down to stream and side watering has been no big deal.
Fuck all that syringe watering noise though
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kirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog] 5
#28669305 - 02/21/24 08:12 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Cyans and cambos I run wetter during pinning and drier during maturation. Bisporus I do dryer on pinning and wetter on maturation. I noticed not necessarily shorter fruits with wetter conditions but less primordia formation with bisporus on wetter areas of the tub. Once they’re set though they get a lot of water to keep them dark and happy.
Edit: I should add I think this has to do with evaporation and how much the casing gets colonized. Cyans and cambia for me tend to really push up through the casing creating a different type of surface than bisporus which only minimally pushes through with finer threads. In my mind this makes the casing more available to hold onto water longer for bisporus, hence keeping it a bit dryer to facilitate the evaporation more readily. Cyans and cambos having a more “colonized” casing facilitate evaporation much more readily and need more water to stay moist as the casing isn’t as available. Just my two cents though.
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TechniQue1
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
#28669328 - 02/21/24 08:33 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Is this what I think it is? The incredible hulk about to grace my grow? I guess it's better than waiting for it to pin. Not the activity I wanted so that I could finally try pans, but not tek that I follow, has actually worked for me yet. I guess in a few hours, I can chuck this out and finish watching my last three grain spawn colonize beautifully and then NOT fruit. I guess I'm gonna have to buy another tent, as my gourmets are almost ready and I can't run then in the same tent.
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tree frog
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] 2
#28669340 - 02/21/24 08:38 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Thanks, kirkeng, I think you're right that they have a bit different needs. And your observations about casing colonization sounds on point too. I'm going to dig into current research on Agaricus casing methods and start running some experiments. I know CACing is done pretty often (adding colonized poo to the casing). I just did a quick search, and it looks like there are other methods too that Pan Bisporus might take a liking too. Once I find the full papers I'll link them if anyone is interested in taking a look.
Appreciate your insights as always
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Edited by tree frog (02/21/24 08:44 AM)
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SupaThaRipper
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] 2
#28669342 - 02/21/24 08:39 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Your two cents are valid. Have you seen your signature grows? 😂
@treefrog, I can only speak about cyans. On my first run with Bisporus now.
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RockinRobot
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: TechniQue1]
#28669367 - 02/21/24 08:48 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Not sure what TEK you have been trying but what did the Spawn look like? Also how did you pasteurize your poo?Quote:
TechniQue1 said:

Is this what I think it is? The incredible hulk about to grace my grow? I guess it's better than waiting for it to pin. Not the activity I wanted so that I could finally try pans, but not tek that I follow, has actually worked for me yet. I guess in a few hours, I can chuck this out and finish watching my last three grain spawn colonize beautifully and then NOT fruit. I guess I'm gonna have to buy another tent, as my gourmets are almost ready and I can't run then in the same tent.
Not sure what TEK you have been trying but what did the Spawn look like? Also how did you pasteurize your poo?
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TechniQue1
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: RockinRobot]
#28669514 - 02/21/24 10:26 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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This was willy mycos set and forget tek... with the exception of using the whole tub vs setting two or three 2 inch trays inside. Spawn looked great. I did two tubs. One was the NEC D strain... the other that is about to trich out, was a strain of Goliath cambos that I isolated on agar. I did three quart jars. NEC D, GOLIATH, AND TTBVI. The ttbvi was the slowest and thinnest of all the jars, so I went with the best performing. Honestly, the one I isolated, showed the most aggressive growth... but that's the one that have the white spot. I just looked again and got another picture. It may actually be starting to pin in that spot. I'm hoping I'm wrong about the trich, as it would suck to get a few pins before triching out.
Idk... both jars of spawn that I used(nec d and Goliath) both smelled amazing. Earthy almonds. After the spawn run, before casing with the standard peat mix,it still smelled great and still does. But, after the mycelium started peaking through, it's just sat in limbo. I use a small spare room that has a space heater and a fan to circulate air and my temps always stay between 77 and 80 degrees. I mist when I absolutely need to. I've grown cubes with almost no hiccups from the time I got into this. Grain was wbs. Substrate was basically grass lovers substrate mix(from midwest)that I pasturized in an insulated cooler for 24 hours, despite it supposedly being ready to use. I trust my own work over others when time is invested. Plus, I mixed in some hydrated straw pellets.
Up until this point, everything has been clean and smelled good. Just no pins or activity unless that's what I'm seeing now. Either way, I guess I'll have my answer by tomorrow morning at the latest. I don't have an ink bird controller for the martha I'm putting together. I bought a 4 tier tent, betazooer humidifier with two tubes, and a vevor 4 inch duct fan that has a temp and humidity controller built into it. Not sure whether to get another fan and humidifier and just switch over to a martha when I spawn the last pan jars and bags that I have ready to go. My reishi and lions mane are gonna need a tent within the week. If anyone has a good link to get me some basic settings of where I want my tent(starting point i can dial in from), it would be appreciated. Otherwise, no worries, I'm sure I'll find something eventually when I search some more.
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TechniQue1
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: RockinRobot]
#28669522 - 02/21/24 10:28 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Am I imagining pins? Cause that white, wet powder look has me worried.
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kirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: TechniQue1] 1
#28669564 - 02/21/24 11:01 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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I see no pins, that will Shirley be green by tomorrow. That being said even if there were pins amongst the green don’t have an expectation of them growing much at all. Pins away from the green could mature but not when they are so close/in it. It’s unfortunate but your suspicion is surely accurate.
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RockinRobot
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: TechniQue1] 1
#28669569 - 02/21/24 11:04 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
TechniQue1 said: This was willy mycos set and forget tek... with the exception of using the whole tub vs setting two or three 2 inch trays inside. Spawn looked great. I did two tubs. One was the NEC D strain... the other that is about to trich out, was a strain of Goliath cambos that I isolated on agar. I did three quart jars. NEC D, GOLIATH, AND TTBVI. The ttbvi was the slowest and thinnest of all the jars, so I went with the best performing. Honestly, the one I isolated, showed the most aggressive growth... but that's the one that have the white spot. I just looked again and got another picture. It may actually be starting to pin in that spot. I'm hoping I'm wrong about the trich, as it would suck to get a few pins before triching out.
Idk... both jars of spawn that I used(nec d and Goliath) both smelled amazing. Earthy almonds. After the spawn run, before casing with the standard peat mix,it still smelled great and still does. But, after the mycelium started peaking through, it's just sat in limbo. I use a small spare room that has a space heater and a fan to circulate air and my temps always stay between 77 and 80 degrees. I mist when I absolutely need to. I've grown cubes with almost no hiccups from the time I got into this. Grain was wbs. Substrate was basically grass lovers substrate mix(from midwest)that I pasturized in an insulated cooler for 24 hours, despite it supposedly being ready to use. I trust my own work over others when time is invested. Plus, I mixed in some hydrated straw pellets.
Up until this point, everything has been clean and smelled good. Just no pins or activity unless that's what I'm seeing now. Either way, I guess I'll have my answer by tomorrow morning at the latest. I don't have an ink bird controller for the martha I'm putting together. I bought a 4 tier tent, betazooer humidifier with two tubes, and a vevor 4 inch duct fan that has a temp and humidity controller built into it. Not sure whether to get another fan and humidifier and just switch over to a martha when I spawn the last pan jars and bags that I have ready to go. My reishi and lions mane are gonna need a tent within the week. If anyone has a good link to get me some basic settings of where I want my tent(starting point i can dial in from), it would be appreciated. Otherwise, no worries, I'm sure I'll find something eventually when I search some more.
Well first off, ANYTHING Willy Myco is pretty much frowned upon. He's a hack at best.
Secondly, you can't go by smell other than if it's seriously bad.
Not sure how you can properly pasteurize in a cooler. For pasteurization your sub needs to be brought to a specific temp and remain there for a specified time.
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TechniQue1
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: RockinRobot]
#28669680 - 02/21/24 12:28 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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I figured willy was. But hacks still grow mushrooms. Any tek is worth a shot when you have yet to have a successful pan grow. I use an insulated water dispensing cooler. Some people use them for coir bucket tekm. I boil 2 huge pots of water and preheat the insulation and cooler by dumping them in it. Then, while the water heats the cooler, I boil more water and when it's ready, I dump the old, add a manure bag, thermometer, and the boiling water and put the lid on and wrap it up in blanket. It works pretty good in the cooler I have. If the temp dropped, you could always add more hot water. But it works for a day and the water is always hot as shit still when I dump it. For as much as I need for 4 15q shoeboxes, I could even use the pasterizer on the instapot... but my girl fucking hated when I cooked manure in the house. Not sure if it would be cool at my buddy's house either...lol.
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TechniQue1
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng]
#28669692 - 02/21/24 12:41 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Yep... I can spot that wet powder look over mycelium any day. I just checked it and you could see the very faint green just starting to tint the white. The little tan spots I thought may have been pins... was metabolite drops. Already in the garbage.
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Baba Yaga
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: TechniQue1] 10
#28669848 - 02/21/24 02:20 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Came back from a 5 day work trip and all three Bisporus jars are ready to be spawned today.

Bulk-substrate is:
1 brick of coir 3 liter of vermiculite about 2 liter of compost about 1 liter worm castings
A brick of coir is about 8-9 liter when hydrated so we have a compost/casting content of around 20%. Have spawned to these old school monos, two fruited @ spawn and one will colonize and consolidate before introducing fruiting conditions:

Compost and castings were done with liquid pasteurization for 1.5hrs @ 145-150F. I wanted to do just worm castings but it seemed that there are a lot of fines in the product and I didn't feel like messing around on my last pan grow of the season testing my first Bisporus clone.
So far Bisporus has mostly produced big fruits for me without any difference in treatment. Fruited @ spawn or colonized and consolidated beforehand were not any different. The clone I took was more of a normal sized pan but with a scalloped or crenate cap margin. Have posted the image before but here it is again.

Looks a bit like the caps of the Komodo Cambo variety. Would be cool if it does carry over.
Running more 0.5% LMA plates. The low nutrient content really does help with clearing things up. These are Wild Pan from Aus (T1), Pan Tropicalis (T2) and Pan Cambo Central Florida (T2):

Just made another batch of these. On the next agar run I will make a few with 0.1%.
Edited by Baba Yaga (02/21/24 08:44 PM)
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MurphSmurf
Float On



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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] 3
#28669851 - 02/21/24 02:23 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
kirkeng said: Cyans and cambos I run wetter during pinning and drier during maturation. Bisporus I do dryer on pinning and wetter on maturation
Thank you for that! The Alabamas I worked with were thirsty during fruiting, bottom watered almost daily.
Spawned some bvi today - calling them “Virgin Island Pancakes: BVI"
2-10-24: A2G -> 1/2 pint -> shake day 8 -> 100% colonized on 2-20-24 -> S2B on 2-21-24
Only a small amount of grain goes into each Ziplock qt jar. If I had to guess 1-tbsp & eyeball sub (a couple of small handfuls)
The rest got spawned to a shoebox in the same manner & placed in JCM Aqua Tub. Lightly compacted & lightly dusted top layer w/ fine grade verm. The top layer is misted before capping.
Also took 3 individual grains & “planted” into lme agar dish for further genetics work.

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tree frog
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: MurphSmurf] 1
#28669874 - 02/21/24 02:39 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Realized this morning that my InkBird has a work two plug.
My grows are still in a jcm because I'm waiting on rustproof shelving for my new 36" (35 1/2 actually)* x 20 Vivosun tent.
Anyway, I hooked my fan up to work two. When the humidity hits 98, the fan kicks on until the humidity drops back to 93. We'll see how they like it.
*I messaged Vivosun on eBay about the tent being smaller than advertised and how I couldn't put my shelving in it because of this. They gave me a full refund and gifted the tent. Their tents are 20% off on eBay by the way, and the price point is lower than Amazon.
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Genome794
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: MurphSmurf] 2
#28670725 - 02/22/24 01:24 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
So far Bisporus has mostly produced big fruits for me without any difference in treatment. Fruited @ spawn or colonized and consolidated beforehand were not any different. The clone I took was more of a normal sized pan but with a scalloped or crenate cap margin. Have posted the image before but here it is again.

Looks a bit like the caps of the Komodo Cambo variety. Would be cool if it does carry over.
From 2nd flush, my Bisporus culture only does individual fruit, maybe 3 per flush but thay are like the above.
 
Quote:
kirkeng said: Cyans and cambos I run wetter during pinning and drier during maturation. Bisporus I do dryer on pinning and wetter on maturation
I found the same about Bisporus by accident. I have to leave my grows for two days every week... I know, my bad. That's when my Bisporus gets a break from misting. That's when I have been getting pins. Thanks Kirkeng, I thought it was just me.
I am going to have to do more bottom watering. Looks like I am missing better crops.
Thanks everyone. 794
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DERRAYLD
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Genome794] 1
#28670730 - 02/22/24 01:35 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Looks good Gene, I must take you up on your offer sometime.
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tree frog
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: DERRAYLD] 3
#28670735 - 02/22/24 01:50 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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So, my BVI experiment with soaking millet in calcium carbonate didn't seem to do shit 
I shook them both at the same time and delayed my usual poo jar shake to let the millet jar colonize a good ten or so grains.
The BVI will be done tomorrow, and I'll probably spawn it Friday. The millet jar has shown zero signs of recovery. Which was also typical in all my Bisporus millet runs without calcium carbonate when I first tried to get Pans going.
The temps in the room were low last week, and I'm sure that affected my outcomes some. But my Bisporus runs were moved to an incubator when they stalled and it still took them a month and a half to colonize.
They do also seem to prefer rye berries. I noticed with the poo jars I ran with rye berries they colonized it a lot more aggressively. Which makes sense, I would eat the rye berries myself but fuck those millet hulls.
Which is me saying, I'm leaning towards the issue being as Baba has been saying. They have trouble penetrating grain hulls. I think the low temperatures in my back bedroom are also a factor in their ability to actually pull this off, and that they're basically going dormant while waiting for the temps to go up or an easier food source to present itself.
And I imagine the added moisture from the verm and the more available energy sources from the BRF (in Baba's case) and the poo (in my case) are giving them the metabolic energy to make use of hulled grains.
It would also explain how in older posts, people had more success with rye + millet than millet alone. The rye is easier to eat. Which gives them energy to eat the millet.
It's also worth noting that in my millet prep I get basically zero clumping. I.e. there's hardly any burst grains in my jars.
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Edited by tree frog (02/22/24 02:02 AM)
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kirkeng
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog] 1
#28670929 - 02/22/24 06:46 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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@treefrog, I noticed the same thing, for a long time I was using sterile manure and oats for spawn as straight oats never colonized well for me. Switched to rye around fall and haven’t used manure in spawn since.
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MojaveMyc


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: kirkeng] 2
#28670976 - 02/22/24 07:49 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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@ tree frog & Kirk, that also makes sense. I’ve been thinking more about the issue & the no prep/vs prep might be where it’s at. Hydrating the grains under pressure vs passive means. It’s gotta be a prep issue on my end at least, as I’ve noticed my millet bags (4 hour cook time, loaded very wet, burst grains) are moving just fine.

MiB clone tray finished up. Upped the plant ferts a smidge for this run, they seem happy about it. 10ml & 25ml of each per gallon of water compared to previous runs of 7ml & 20ml/gal. This is comparable to my best manure grow, which gave me 281g wet.
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