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InvisibleTriskelope
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Let’s Talk Divination * 3
    #28670292 - 02/21/24 07:37 PM (4 months, 2 days ago)

Hi Friends,

I’m curious about this community’s views on divination methods & thought it’d be interesting to start a dialogue about them. Here are some questions to get started:
  • Do you believe divination has value?
  • Do you see it as predictive or introspective?
  • Do you practice any methods yourself? If so, what method(s) do you use?
  • Has divination impacted your life? Any memorable experiences to share?
  • Can you use your method to try to divine something for the poster above? If so, what do you get? (I have no idea if this can work, I just thought it might be something fun & interesting to try since we’re on the subject.)

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 3
    #28670306 - 02/21/24 07:44 PM (4 months, 2 days ago)

A girl once described the desk lamp I was working under in a remote viewing session.

The evident power behind divination or knowing the future scares me.

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InvisibleTriskelope
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 2
    #28670450 - 02/21/24 09:00 PM (4 months, 2 days ago)

That sounds like it was an interesting experience to have.

My understanding is divination typically involves interpreting symbols, signs, or tools to gain insight or guidance, and that remote viewing isn’t typically considered a form of divination. Instead, it’s seen as a type of ESP or psychic ability since it’s more about tapping into subconscious or non-local aspects of consciousness to perceive info beyond what is available through the usual senses.

Here’s a card for you:

Edited by Triskelope (02/21/24 09:44 PM)

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope]
    #28670928 - 02/22/24 06:45 AM (4 months, 1 day ago)

Interesting. The magician uses a wand-(erer) whereas the diviner uses a wond-(erer)

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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope]
    #28671016 - 02/22/24 08:25 AM (4 months, 1 day ago)

Did you make that card yourself?

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InvisibleTriskelope
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 2
    #28671184 - 02/22/24 10:09 AM (4 months, 1 day ago)

No, it’s a card from this deck:


Here’s the interpretation of your card if you are interested.

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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 2
    #28671192 - 02/22/24 10:18 AM (4 months, 1 day ago)

It has the familiar markings of The Fool. Earlier versions show Arthur Waites white dog tearing his britches suggesting the fall is in accordance with the Divine Plan.

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InvisibleTriskelope
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28671258 - 02/22/24 11:38 AM (4 months, 1 day ago)

For funsies, let’s see what my personal intuitively-guided method has to offer for you today - from a book & page chosen at random, I found this poem by an unknown author:

In the quest to survive,
A token sense of esteem,
Here we revive,
Our wayward aims and dreams,
Here we epitomize,
To What this reality seems,
Here we personify,
Our wayward aims and dreams.
To the sage a simple trust,
That perfection never exists,
In the throws of our lust,
Here we persist,
In this lies a must,
In this tandem we insist.
Here a spirit is defined,
A power greater than all,
In what we choose to leave behind,
In Hell or Heaven’s hall, If we choose to believe,
The greatest manifestation of fate,
If we can conceive,
Of the powers that destroy and create.

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope]
    #28671320 - 02/22/24 12:27 PM (4 months, 1 day ago)

I'm partial at the moment to a scene in Purple Rain, I think, where a girl abides by a bridge of poems suggesting metaphors as a result or beginning of reality, so that wireless communication is a metaphor of the reality of telepathy. Logic then can break down in the presence of imagination.

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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 3
    #28671760 - 02/22/24 06:01 PM (4 months, 1 day ago)

:wave:
Cool thread!
Quote:

Triskelope said:
Hi Friends, I’m curious about this community’s views on divination methods & thought it’d be interesting to start a dialogue about them. Here are some questions to get started:
  • Do you believe divination has value



Yeah, for me anyway, massively- the bulk of which comes from its uncanny power as a remover of obstacles & problem solving when the rational mind comes up short. Trying not to get into the 'predictive or introspective?' aspect too much here.
But of all divination methods I'm aware of, there's an element of taking your juding mind out of the drivers seat for the consulting process that can create immensely valuable substrate for insight to be cultivated. Maybe more like just creating a space less encumbered by your usual projections.
Quote:

[LIST]
  • Do you see it as predictive or introspective?



  • Both! And that's a huge part of the appeal for me. Balancing a discerning attitude- where you are curious enough to seek but won't just believe everything at face value- with enough of the requisite faith for practically experiencing the unknown, can be difficult.
    So; being able to say, read excerpts from the I Ching after meditating and gain some insight to a personal query on a purely mental/introsepctive level is really great- but so is ritualising your consultation, going at it with deep reverence, ensuring that you're really trying to connect with whatever the spirit of your method is, then getting an absolutely paradigm shakingingly prescient reading is really something else entirely. Something that absolutely, to me, speaks to the idea of  personality & discarnate intelligence running through the use of these tools. With so much usage throughout history, I could easily see some sort of egregore form created from the repetiton of practises but whatever the mechanism of action at work is, I can't pass divination off as a purely introspective excerise, nor could I call it (by itsself) a surefire portal to prediction.
    Quote:

    • Do you practice any methods yourself? If so, what method(s) do you use?




    I Ching mostly over the last few years, a little bit of Tarot, magic 8 ball, bibliomancy for mundane introspection, slow pour alphabet soup, fortune cookie, synchronicity, Rorschach test interpretartions of blank spaces in cat food bowls & grinder trays... Clouds.
    I have been around a lot of Tarot and a family member is proficient w/ pendulum usage but nothing caught me like I Ching, really.
    Quote:

    • Has divination impacted your life? Any memorable experiences to share?




    Definitely, hard to convey how useful I consider this stuff. Among a stream of learning experience, that faith balance mentioned above teaches all sorts of lessons every time it comes up and making time & space for a properly ritualised divination session (whether solo I Ching work or Tarot/ combination stuff with my GF) never fails to stir back up a bit of that spark, that pull of curious amusement toward the unknown. Plus, when I get a REALLY juicy I Ching cast on, I can be 'sustained' in the sense of picking it apart, digging into all the aspects of the lines, symbolism, metaphor- you get the picture- all rich kibble for thought, reflection and advice, literally for months. Love when it happens like that and that reason has gradually led to me actually consulting the oracle less, studying it more and making sure I treat the experience w/ respect.
    Memorable experiences, countless times where my I Ching cast and my GFs Tarot reading would be saying the same thing really cohesively but most memorable overall about the I Ching usage are times where the character really comes out- I've definitely been sassed, called out and put in my place left questioning much more after the consulting.
    :noway:
    There's also just something about divination and tripping that pair really nicely, although there is potential to menace yourself...
    :trippinbawelz:
    Quote:

    • Can you use your method to try to divine something for the poster above? If so, what do you get? (I have no idea if this can work, I just thought it might be something fun & interesting to try since we’re on the subject.)




    I like the idea but am more weary of this type of thing ATM...
    Saying that, Magic 8 ball: What's Buster Browns deal?

    "Without a doubt."

    :mindblown:

    If posed the same questions yourself, OP- what would your answers be?

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    InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 2
        #28671783 - 02/22/24 06:17 PM (4 months, 1 day ago)

    I found the siddhis described in buddhist and other eastern esoteric literature ~([depending on who's list you go by: but really, one's imagination is the limit] minus 'endlessly multiplying one's body' ~ for some reason i've never experienced that as described in some of the literature i've read that speaks about such a thing) ~ to be experientially real as in, available to explore within oneself ~ but not objectively true phenomenon extending out into the world of shared things with other sentient beings.

    Although, some of the simulated dreamscapes in which some siddhis might manifest can occur in as if 'real life OBE modes' (in that) they're nearly tit for tat ~ as in , nearly exact ~ with that of one's memory of any particular place or event which had been part of one's immediate life at some point in spacetime.

    However, upon closer examination and upon wasting much, much time to explore the aforementioned group of 'psychic phenomenon' It became undeniable that the environments were being recollected/remade of memory and ongoing experience.

    Okay, maybe not a waste of time ~ but, I've found they just seem to happen due to x, y, and z ~ and trying to control or 'make them happen' is an uncertain matter, however, they do come and go every now and again when practicing formal sitting meditation and dream yoga for extended periods of time in a more intensive setting then my usual day-to-day allows for nowadays.

    Which, tbh, was kind of a bummer, but - at the same time, was kind of a relief... for (probably) some of the same implications Buster seems to allude to or indicate on the dl in his last post here.


    --------------------
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    OfflineBuster_Brown
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: The Blind Ass] * 2
        #28671793 - 02/22/24 06:33 PM (4 months, 1 day ago)

    Quote:

    Rorschach test interpretartions of blank spaces in cat food bowls & grinder trays...
    Quote:

    Can you use your method to try to divine something for the poster above










    I think that speaks for itself.

    LOL

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
        #28671811 - 02/22/24 06:52 PM (4 months, 1 day ago)

    But I'll give it a go:

    We're familiar with the Borg (squared away, ship-shape and Bristol fashion) along with the rounded shape of the starship Enterprise, ensconced in the young, green, universe.

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    InvisibleTriskelope
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
        #28672108 - 02/22/24 10:46 PM (4 months, 23 hours ago)

    Thank you for your detailed reply Lithop!

    I do feel it has value, for what sounds like similar reasons to you. I tend to consult cards when I am enmeshed in my Emotional Mind as I don’t trust my judgement to be at it’s soundest in that headspace, so it can be helpful to me to take a step back and reflect on a simple reading. Conversely, if I’m more based in my Rational or Wise mind - I don’t typically use the cards (unless my intuition is really pushing hard for it for some reason). Well, no that’s not totally true.. there is another reason I find it useful occasionally, which is for artistic inspiration & to get creative juices flowing if I am coming up short on ideas.

    As for the question regarding predictive or introspective. I think it’s possible to be both. For myself it’s for introspection, but I have a friend who has given readings that did end up being predictive to some extent. I am and probably always be somewhat skeptical side though on how much veracity there is to that. I wonder if it is somehow actually predictive or comes about for some other reason, such as our Will latching on to that and making it happen because the idea was planted in the subconscious.. I also agree with what you said about
    Quote:

    Balancing a discerning attitude- where you are curious enough to seek but won't just believe everything at face value


    that is the stance I try to take with it as well, and since we can often be susceptible to confirmation bias.

    For methods I use: I have a couple card decks, and my own personal method I’ve been experimenting with (doesn’t have an official name) is like is sort of a blend of things where I use randomized numbers to sort open / allow the Universe/Allies/Guides (whatever you want to call this) to have it’s say on what I should look at in that moment (ie: what book, then what page of that book, etc), and following those threads to where that leads, and then integrating intuition by seeing what gives the strongest pull. I use this mostly for the artistic inspiration I mentioned above.

    As to impacts, I would say it (along with my art practices) aids in strengthening & trusting intuition, and trusting in the not knowingness of it all. I also agree with what you said about it being
    Quote:

    rich kibble for thought, reflection and advice


    I don’t have any specific moments to share, but seeing wild synchronicity at play has been and always will be fascinating to me.

    Quote:

    There's also just something about divination and tripping that pair really nicely, although there is potential to menace yourself...


    I haven’t actually tried this (yet), but I am curious about it. If you have any more to share about this, I’d love to learn more.

    Here is a card for you (Lithop): + card meaning Fun fact: when I was shuffling while asking for a card for you, this same exact card fell out of the deck 2 times in a row, so take that how you will :heart:

    Edited by Triskelope (02/22/24 10:54 PM)

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    InvisibleTriskelope
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
        #28672545 - 02/23/24 09:44 AM (4 months, 12 hours ago)


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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 1
        #28672625 - 02/23/24 10:55 AM (4 months, 11 hours ago)

    Well, perhaps you'll forgive me for reading you as Trikselope

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    InvisibleTriskelope
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 2
        #28672724 - 02/23/24 11:39 AM (4 months, 11 hours ago)

    No tricks, only treats.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 2
        #28672805 - 02/23/24 01:00 PM (4 months, 9 hours ago)

    There's history between some of us here. I suspected TBA's motives as being divided, hence the example. 'Love your enemy' might cast opposition in a different light rather than ugly ogres, not that I believe TBA has anything other than the the highest regard for the Borg

    Edited by Buster_Brown (02/23/24 01:00 PM)

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 1
        #28672994 - 02/23/24 04:18 PM (4 months, 6 hours ago)

    Quote:

    Triskelope said:





    "Diplomatic" might be the word.

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    InvisibleTriskelope
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
        #28673026 - 02/23/24 04:53 PM (4 months, 5 hours ago)

    Thank you for the clarification.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope]
        #28673951 - 02/24/24 10:08 AM (3 months, 30 days ago)

    Do you think Yeats' Rough Beast actually gets to go to Bethlehem?

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown]
        #28674186 - 02/24/24 01:01 PM (3 months, 30 days ago)

    its hour come round at last

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro]
        #28674207 - 02/24/24 01:17 PM (3 months, 30 days ago)

    An hour = 41.66 years, yada yada, 1000 years = a day.

    Edited by Buster_Brown (02/24/24 01:18 PM)

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
        #28674587 - 02/24/24 06:42 PM (3 months, 30 days ago)

    I took the last lines as no atheists in foxholes, and Matthew 7:7, asking, given, but what rough beast, what state of mind in that hour?

    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, 
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 1
        #28674748 - 02/24/24 08:45 PM (3 months, 30 days ago)

    I divine with cards and dice.

    I do spreds with playing deck cards.

    Rolling the dice is good as well.

    A variant

    Card deck dice roll one card flip per roll of the dice.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 2
        #28676494 - 02/26/24 03:57 AM (3 months, 28 days ago)

    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    Thank you for your detailed reply Lithop!




    :mypleasure:
    Back atchya!
    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    I do feel it has value, for what sounds like similar reasons to you. I tend to consult cards when I am enmeshed in my Emotional Mind as I don’t trust my judgement to be at it’s soundest in that headspace, so it can be helpful to me to take a step back and reflect on a simple reading. Conversely, if I’m more based in my Rational or Wise mind - I don’t typically use the cards (unless my intuition is really pushing hard for it for some reason). Well, no that’s not totally true.. there is another reason I find it useful occasionally, which is for artistic inspiration & to get creative juices flowing if I am coming up short on ideas.



    :awesomenod:
    Good point about divining when 'enmeshed in your emotional mind' but it makes me think of the role of each of these mindsets in divination. I personally think, less of the rational mind is good for the divination casting, where less of the emotional is good for the initial consulting phase, if you get what I mean.
    Also yeah, I can dig using these methods for creative inspiration!

    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    As for the question regarding predictive or introspective. I think it’s possible to be both. For myself it’s for introspection, but I have a friend who has given readings that did end up being predictive to some extent. I am and probably always be somewhat skeptical side though on how much veracity there is to that. I wonder if it is somehow actually predictive or comes about for some other reason, such as our Will latching on to that and making it happen because the idea was planted in the subconscious..



    The subconscious making it a self fulfilling prophecy type deal. Well I think it certainly pays to wary of that and can be better to err on the side of skepticism rather than straight up project what you want from it. It's similar to how I see the difference between 'pop astrology' and what the actual study of that stuff was meant to represent, something deeper and richer with scope for interpretation and correlation that speaks to measuring and deducting based on the constant & cyclical currents of change that run through life, rather than "Oh cool, I'm coming into money soon because of a certain planets position!" type.
    In his I Ching translation Richard Wilhelm sums it well, IMO, saying (and this applies to divination at large):

    "The enormous value of the I Ching is the way in which it uses its images to expose and develop intuitive dimensions whilst instilling in the seeker the moral fibre, perseverance and  steadfastness needed to balance and accomodate the emerging unconcious in a very practical way. It prompts inward-turning and conscious- unconscious inter relation but always binds them deliberately to the real world. It brings out the force of inner truth.
    It does not hold with the idea of Nirvana sought through inactivity. But it equally posits that any understanding  of the real, practical world is utterly dependant  upon some measure of awareness of the 'invisible world'. The two must be taken together, with recognition of the immutable laws of the universe (or the cyclic law of change) that govern both in nature and in man, for things to make sense. In essence, the I Ching standpoint is that non-practical spirituality and non-spiritual pragmatism are each as unbalanced as the other. However, it must also be said, to some people its spirit is clear: to others it conveys little or nothing. Only the reader can decide upon its importance."


    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    I also agree with what you said about
    Quote:

    Balancing a discerning attitude- where you are curious enough to seek but won't just believe everything at face value


    that is the stance I try to take with it as well, and since we can often be susceptible to confirmation bias.



    :yesnod:
    Why it's important to study & expand our knowledge on the method of divination, its history and patterns etc.

    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    For methods I use: I have a couple card decks, and my own personal method I’ve been experimenting with (doesn’t have an official name) is like is sort of a blend of things where I use randomized numbers to sort open / allow the Universe/Allies/Guides (whatever you want to call this) to have it’s say on what I should look at in that moment (ie: what book, then what page of that book, etc), and following those threads to where that leads, and then integrating intuition by seeing what gives the strongest pull. I use this mostly for the artistic inspiration I mentioned above.



    Cool! Sounds like a really good way to get space from the parts of mind that would keep these less rational or measured connections being made.
    No matter how you look at it, an element of detatchment, or surrendering control & expectation, embracing the random seems to be required.

    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    As to impacts, I would say it (along with my art practices) aids in strengthening & trusting intuition, and trusting in the not knowingness of it all. I also agree with what you said about it being
    Quote:

    rich kibble for thought, reflection and advice


    I don’t have any specific moments to share, but seeing wild synchronicity at play has been and always will be fascinating to me.



    Spot on with my view of excersising intution!
    "Trusting in the not knowingness of it all" was one of the first big practical lessons divination gave me, a surprisingly good antidote to anxiety.
    And yeah, synchronicity is fucking fascinating- love to catch a glimpse of it in action.
    :vaped:
    Quote:

    Triskelope said: I haven’t actually tried this (yet), but I am curious about it. If you have any more to share about this, I’d love to learn more.



    Haha, basically I have largely found deep merit in CONSULTING during a sort of, pre-trip ritual stack. So, once the space is cleared by whatever means, intentions have been set and whathaveyou, I'll consume my psychedelic and after a short while cast the coins or pull some cards or w/e & just leaving the rest of the interpretation till the next day or beyond. Other times, where I've dug into it fully and got down the rabbit hole of starting to interpret while actually tripping hard have led to both deep, unexpected insight but has also lead to a bit of fuckery in what I think it's saying to me... IE the risk of projection & confusion seems heavily increased if you're blasted.
    :lol:

    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    Here is a card for you (Lithop): + card meaning Fun fact: when I was shuffling while asking for a card for you, this same exact card fell out of the deck 2 times in a row, so take that how you will :heart:



    Interesting, thanks! It's a cool deck, so it's alleged 'bows' is 'wands'? I'll look further into what it suggests.
    On the surface/ purely visual level, the card reminds me of hex 13: FELLOWSHIP

    but in terms of what I can initially gather of its meaning, it more readily fits with hex 9: THE TAMING POWER OF THE GENTLE/SMALL ACCUMULATES which speaks to the idea of restraint in progress, biding time and sticking at your path & funnily enough I got in my last cast.
    It could, also, be related to hex 64: TRANSITION/BEFORE COMPLETION since it suggests a being helped through and towards a favourable end to, perhaps, difficult cirumstances.
    It could be that it speaks to the message of all 3, since there are numerous common threads.
    Thanks for the reply- you should have a look at those hexagrams mentioned when you find time, and see what you think!

    P.S if you're quite artistic, visual and a card person etc, I highly recommend 'Visionary I Ching' cards. The book itsself gives basic allright non culture/ era specific ideas of each hexagram (something that can put people off from certain translations) but the art style on the cards is so nicely abstract as to work REALLY well for interpretation, IMO.
    And its visual style is rad when tripping too.


    :edit: fixed photos

    Edited by Lithop (02/26/24 04:07 AM)

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 3
        #28676830 - 02/26/24 11:32 AM (3 months, 28 days ago)

    I have that Visionary I Ching deck and love it, I agree that the book's descriptions would work well for most people regardless of culture and the art is great.

    I just ordered an Egyptian Gods Oracle deck that I am excited to use, the art is very inspiring to me (looks like very authentic ancient Egyptian imagery) and it will be interesting to see what sort of readings it gives.

    A main use of cards (Tarot, Oracle, I Ching, also Norse runes) that I use is to follow my inner prompting to pull however many cards feels right each morning, as insights into what will play out through the day (themes, lessons, etc.) and it's always neat to see how the cards' archetypes can play out in unique ways (some days are more obvious than others).

    Divination is a great way to engage parts of your mind that don't always get used as much, to see the layers of symbolism / archetypes in your life, especially with something like Tarot where cards are combined together in unique ways. Definitely something I want to keep pursuing and working with. Great topic :smile:


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    InvisibleTriskelope
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 2
        #28677439 - 02/26/24 07:59 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

    Thank you for sharing more about the I Ching. I’ve not had any experience with it before, but you’ve sparked my interest. I love the look of the cards you suggested and I’ve added them to my “wish” list - they look amazing, and totally up my alley. The art on that card reminds me a bit of the art Lady Frieda Harris did for the Crowley-Thoth tarot deck. My father of all people was the one who started me out by gifting me with my first deck of cards which was that particular deck. Which brings me around to this:

    Quote:

    It's similar to how I see the difference between 'pop astrology' and what the actual study of that stuff was meant to represent, something deeper and richer with scope for interpretation and correlation that speaks to measuring and deducting based on the constant & cyclical currents of change that run through life, rather than "Oh cool, I'm coming into money soon because of a certain planets position!" type




    Because it was the gift of that deck & the imagery on the cards with their ties to astrological symbols that started me down the curious rabbit hole of astrology instead which I found vastly more intriguing than learning how to tarot. So I really get you here, and I love the way you put it since there’s just so much to it. IFYKYK. :stars:

    Quote:

    Cool! Sounds like a really good way to get space from the parts of mind that would keep these less rational or measured connections being made.
    No matter how you look at it, an element of detatchment, or surrendering control & expectation, embracing the random seems to be required.


    Yes! It is exactly this!

    Quote:

    "Trusting in the not knowingness of it all" was one of the first big practical lessons divination gave me, a surprisingly good antidote to anxiety


    It is so refreshing that you know what I mean by that, and yes coming back to this thought is one of the most effective ways I’ve come across to help calm anxiety in myself, that and a nice soak in the tub, lol.

    Thank you for elaborating on your trip process. I’ll ponder and absorb this and see if I can integrate divination in a gentle way into my next journey, whenever that may be.

    Re: my deck, yes Bows takes the place of Wands, Arrows instead of Swords, Vessels instead of Cups, and Stones instead of Disks, or Pentacles. It is the only tarot deck to date that I’ve felt strongly & strangely drawn to. So I have 2 tarot decks, this one and the Crowley-Thoth from my dad.

    I’ll take a look at those hexagrams you mentioned.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 1
        #28677455 - 02/26/24 08:15 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

    I fabricated a deck from scrap roofing metal laboriously cut out with tin-snips and then tried to pass an electric current thru the deck to imbue them with an extra vibe only to discover there was some kind of interference so I boiled it hoping to remove the plastic film or whatever but only succeeded in permanently setting the blood stains.

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    InvisibleTriskelope
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 2
        #28677501 - 02/26/24 08:56 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

    I believe there is an old saying that is relevant to this situation.. it goes something like… “Pics or it didn’t happen”

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope]
        #28677521 - 02/26/24 09:14 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

    It was an amateurist product that was left by the wayside

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
        #28677542 - 02/26/24 09:30 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

    Here's someone who cross-refferenced YChing/Tarot/Astrology

    https://www.hermetica.info/

    Edited by Buster_Brown (02/26/24 09:30 PM)

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: deff] * 1
        #28677561 - 02/26/24 09:48 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

    Quote:

    deff said:
    I have that Visionary I Ching deck and love it, I agree that the book's descriptions would work well for most people regardless of culture and the art is great.

    I just ordered an Egyptian Gods Oracle deck that I am excited to use, the art is very inspiring to me (looks like very authentic ancient Egyptian imagery) and it will be interesting to see what sort of readings it gives.

    A main use of cards (Tarot, Oracle, I Ching, also Norse runes) that I use is to follow my inner prompting to pull however many cards feels right each morning, as insights into what will play out through the day (themes, lessons, etc.) and it's always neat to see how the cards' archetypes can play out in unique ways (some days are more obvious than others).

    Divination is a great way to engage parts of your mind that don't always get used as much, to see the layers of symbolism / archetypes in your life, especially with something like Tarot where cards are combined together in unique ways. Definitely something I want to keep pursuing and working with. Great topic :smile:




    Hi Deff, thank you for sharing!

    I did a quick Goog of the Egyptian Gods Oracle deck and it looks cool. I hope you will let us know more about what you think of it once you’ve had a chance to work with it. I’m very interested to hear about the sorts of readings it gives as well.

    I like the daily method you practice. I used to do a daily 1 card draw in the morning but I’ve kind of fallen out of the habit due to the morning schedule I have now. I miss it though.

    Here’s a card for you:
    + Meaning

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 3
        #28679140 - 02/28/24 03:41 AM (3 months, 26 days ago)

    Quote:

    deff said:
    I have that Visionary I Ching deck and love it, I agree that the book's descriptions would work well for most people regardless of culture and the art is great.



    :sambergfive:
    Quote:

    deff said:
    I just ordered an Egyptian Gods Oracle deck that I am excited to use, the art is very inspiring to me (looks like very authentic ancient Egyptian imagery) and it will be interesting to see what sort of readings it gives.



    Sounds sick!
    Quote:

    deff said:
    Divination is a great way to engage parts of your mind that don't always get used as much, to see the layers of symbolism / archetypes in your life, especially with something like Tarot where cards are combined together in unique ways. Definitely something I want to keep pursuing and working with. Great topic :smile:



    :awesomenod:
    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    Thank you for sharing more about the I Ching. I’ve not had any experience with it before, but you’ve sparked my interest. I love the look of the cards you suggested and I’ve added them to my “wish” list - they look amazing, and totally up my alley. The art on that card reminds me a bit of the art Lady Frieda Harris did for the Crowley-Thoth tarot deck. My father of all people was the one who started me out by gifting me with my first deck of cards which was that particular deck.



    Sweet, I hope you enjoy it if/when you pick it up!
    In terms of the Thoth deck... The artwork is some of the most beautiful, intriguing and mystical I've ever seen on a deck. I'm a big fan of visionary artists, Robert Venosa for example, and something of the Thoth deck brings me the same vibe.
    Lady Frieda done an otherworldly job on it, such depth is put into every aspect - it oozes magic. GF has that deck around but I don't want to really dig into it until I'm more knowledgable on Tarot- sticking w/ Rider to Waite until the basics sink in more. But yeah, I can see why it rings similar with you, a type of radiant colouring and abstract styling that both share, in fact I'd not be surprised to find Joan Larimore inspired by LFH. All that hype on a deck I've only looked over a handful of times, to someone who actually uses it- talk about preaching to the choir.
    :lol:
    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    It is so refreshing that you know what I mean by that, and yes coming back to this thought is one of the most effective ways I’ve come across to help calm anxiety in myself, that and a nice soak in the tub, lol.



    :namaste:
    Simple to express but tough to enact, IME.
    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    Because it was the gift of that deck & the imagery on the cards with their ties to astrological symbols that started me down the curious rabbit hole of astrology instead which I found vastly more intriguing than learning how to tarot. So I really get you here, and I love the way you put it since there’s just so much to it. IFYKYK. :stars:



    Interesting, there's something seems intrinsically usable about Astrology to me too- especially in regards to divination, ritual etc but it can be tough wading through the BS.
    Have you studied much about it overall?
    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    Thank you for elaborating on your trip process. I’ll ponder and absorb this and see if I can integrate divination in a gentle way into my next journey, whenever that may be.



    :salute:
    Quote:

    Triskelope said:
    Re: my deck, yes Bows takes the place of Wands, Arrows instead of Swords, Vessels instead of Cups, and Stones instead of Disks, or Pentacles. It is the only tarot deck to date that I’ve felt strongly & strangely drawn to. So I have 2 tarot decks, this one and the Crowley-Thoth from my dad.

    I’ll take a look at those hexagrams you mentioned.



    Best to trust intuition about these sort of things, if it speaks to you BEFORE you've consulted it then you're off to a good start it seems!
    :lol:
    It's really cool that your dad got you such an awesome deck as your first.
    :rockon:
    In terms of the hexs, apparantly hex 35: ADVANCEMENT/PROGRESS is the most applicable to 8 of Bows/Wands.
    Quote:

    Buster_Brown said:
    I fabricated a deck from scrap roofing metal laboriously cut out with tin-snips and then tried to pass an electric current thru the deck to imbue them with an extra vibe only to discover there was some kind of interference so I boiled it hoping to remove the plastic film or whatever but only succeeded in permanently setting the blood stains.



    :lmafo:
    Knowing you only through our brief interactions, I thought this has equal chance to be factual as made up for comedic effect haha.
    A deck that offers inadvertant blood sacrifice while shuffling.
    :dying:

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    Offlineyawhay
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
        #28681037 - 02/29/24 11:20 AM (3 months, 25 days ago)

    Not sure what you mean by divination but I can say most things earthly aren't very fruitful in the realm of divinity.

    The highest among them I would claim are eating enough food to sustain oneself, having an active lifestyle, being cleanly in all regards, and being nice.

    Beyond that it's just tea pots and salt shakers. The real juice is out there inebriated on doses of psychedelics so high you can't see the ground. And when you are looking over fields of cosmic realm in another dimensionality with the kings and queens of ancient mysteries, filled with plasmagoric love and understanding of the universe, and you realize you are a god, with divine benevolent intention, and peace....that is divination to me and any other attempt at it is mere hubris

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: yawhay] * 1
        #28681980 - 02/29/24 09:59 PM (3 months, 25 days ago)

    That's an interesting yet iffy concept.  But it does have lots of room to play around with in terms of how and in which ways one can convey any number of ideas one can imagine along with it.

    Here, i'll give the ol' imagination a go while pretending from the point of view of what you've just written. 

    (*Note: I may or may not have entertained some very similar notions more than a few times before :tongue:)

    *Cracks Knuckles*

    Quote:

    ~ O M g ~

    'Uh..oh...
    ...S h i-




    :bigbang:




    Well...

    If I were a 'god' i'd probably just imagine myself as something less silly than a god and something more like as the most ancient & newest aka primordial entity. 
    And, as naturally encompassing everything as sentiency as a virtual place located nowhere at any time whatsoever, and, wherein which spacetime emerges causally of naturally being aware as to presence of awareness as emptiness yet sentiently aware anyways.

    Thusly, including but not limited to ~ occurring naturally such as to coincide with all things like invisible yet apparent transluminescence shining of an unlimited number of potentialities as infinitely combinationally reconfigurable possibilities of a boundless imagination fluxing as the instantaneousness of an eternity of transfigurativity.

    In efx, naturally making some waves in the process, naturally!
    Furthemore, and, in so doing,  (throwing the ol' weight of nearly almost nothing around everywhere) gravitationality ensues and momentum releases spontaneously as if right here and now unglued of the imagination via transmitting endlessly fractalizing imaginary energy. 

    You gnome mean? Because, from all the omnidirectional spinning of course the coursing of the continuum of spacetime results, naturally.  And, as such the direct connectivity available to all via all things in all ways by all means seemingly becomes as if everything were already always here now just for the sheer sport of loving to play.

    :cool::thumbup:


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    Offlinesyncro
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: yawhay] * 3
        #28682132 - 03/01/24 03:21 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    "mere hubris"

    Sometimes just looking for some help or a viewpoint.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 2
        #28682134 - 03/01/24 03:37 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    I don't use oracles often, but I did a toss of the sticks "for today."

    Quote:

    48 - Forty-Eight
    Ching / The Well

    Deep Waters Penetrated and drawn to the surface:
    The Superior Person refreshes the people with constant encouragement to help one another.

    Encampments, settlements, walled cities, whole empires may rise and fall, yet the Well at the center endures, never drying to dust, never overflowing.
    It served those before and will serve those after.
    Again and again you may draw from the Well, but if the bucket breaks or the rope is too short there will be misfortune.

    SITUATION ANALYSIS:
    There is a Source common to us all.
    Jung named it the Collective Unconscious.
    Others hail it as God within.
    Inside each of us are dreamlike symbols and archetypes, emotions and instincts that we share with every other human being.
    When we feel a lonely separateness from others, it is not because this Well within has dried up, but because we have lost the means to reach its waters.
    You need to reclaim the tools necessary to penetrate to the depths of your fellows.
    Then the bonds you build will be as timeless and inexhaustible as the Well that nourishes them.



    Edited by syncro (03/01/24 03:38 AM)

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 1
        #28682135 - 03/01/24 03:45 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    I thought the progression of the lines in the hex are interesting.

    from line 1 upward:

    -The water in this old well has seeped into the mud.
    Not even the animals come to drink from it.

    -Shooting at fish in the well puts holes in the bucket. No one can draw from this well.

    -This well has been cleansed, but no one will drink from it.
    This is a tragic mistake, for it has much to offer prince and pauper alike.

    -The well is carefully retiled, and in time made pure again.

    -The water in this well comes from a cool, deep, inexhaustible spring.

    -This well is dependable and available to all.
    Supreme good fortune.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 2
        #28682170 - 03/01/24 05:27 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    Out of the blue, adding with the chakras. Well not so out of the blue as they have alignment. Is this seen with hex's in general?

    Muladhara, base of the spine, earth
    -The water in this old well has seeped into the mud.
    Not even the animals come to drink from it.

    Svadhisthana - sacral, water
    -Shooting at fish in the well puts holes in the bucket. No one can draw from this well.

    Manipura - belly, fire
    -This well has been cleansed, but no one will drink from it.
    This is a tragic mistake, for it has much to offer prince and pauper alike.

    Anahata - heart, air
    -The well is carefully retiled, and in time made pure again.

    Vishuddha - throat, ether
    -The water in this well comes from a cool, deep, inexhaustible spring.

    Ajna, forehead, Om
    -This well is dependable and available to all.
    Supreme good fortune.

    Edited by syncro (03/01/24 05:41 AM)

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 2
        #28682274 - 03/01/24 08:07 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    Quote:

    yawhay said:Not sure what you mean by divination but I can say most things earthly aren't very fruitful in the realm of divinity.



    TBA makes his point well, I think- but I'd like to add my opinions here too.
    I think in this thread, most of us are using the definition of divination as "Seeking knowledge of the unknown through supernatural means." Unpacking a bit further, 'knowledge of the unknown' could be external- events, circumstances or internal- hidden motives or behaviour patterns. And 'supernatural' in this case simply meaning 'outside of the normal understanding of science or occuring outside of the scope of expected natural phenomenon' that ranging in personal definition from unresolved/partial theories about the unconscious yielding useful insight all the way to fully spooksville discarnate spirits telling you what's up.
    Quote:

    yawhay said:The highest among them I would claim are eating enough food to sustain oneself, having an active lifestyle, being cleanly in all regards, and being nice.



    "Love everyone and feed people " basically golden rule stuff as well as keeping yourself fit for service &respecting your human incarnation, I can dig it.
    I see you say in another thread that Christ is a mushroom- in an esoteric sense I'd be inclined to agree that visions, notions & experiences of the Christ nature and how to enact/embody them certainly appear in the psychedelic state. Which is why I find it hard to reconcile your saying:
    Quote:

    yawhay said:The real juice is out there inebriated on doses of psychedelics so high you can't see the ground. And when you are looking over fields of cosmic realm in another dimensionality with the kings and queens of ancient mysteries, filled with plasmagoric love and understanding of the universe, and you realize you are a god, with divine benevolent intention, and peace....that is divination to me and any other attempt at it is mere hubris.



    Like many here, I look to the psychedelic experience with massive love, curiosity ,respect and admiration but that is NOT, IMO- "the real juice"!
    If anything it's the straw, something that lets you suck up some of the juice (inspiration, knowledge and motivation in order for you to carry it forward for yourself and those around you) so you can digest it.
    With appropriate practice, I would say there is little to no hubris involved in admitting that you may know so little about what you need, that you're willing to consider such seemingly disparate sources than your own life long streak of knowing the most, for self refinement.
    In fact, I'd say to an extent supplicating to these spiritual forces or whatever is at work is a massive milestone of humility in your progression and- IME- each time you reach it again, it seems to pay dividends with your connection to the Universe.
    The juice doesn't depend on you having a straw or even a cup but if you want to sip that nectar you're gonna have to AT LEAST cup your hands and dip in.
    That is to say, if you think you are/ strive to be in the driver's seat during divination then you're probably brainstorming, not divining.
    :twocents:twocents:
    Quote:

    The Blind Ass said:
    *Cracks Knuckles*
    ~ O M g ~
    'Uh..oh...
    ...S h i-



    :lmafo:
    :aum:
    Quote:

    The Blind Ass said:If I were a 'god' i'd probably just imagine myself as something less silly than a god and something more like as the most ancient & newest aka primordial entity.



    Me too, or a dolphin.
    Quote:

    The Blind Ass said:And, as such the direct connectivity available to all via all things in all ways by all means seemingly becomes as if everything were already always here now just for the sheer sport of loving to play.



    :awesomenod:
    Quote:

    syncro said:
    I thought the progression of the lines in the hex are interesting.




    So, the order of lines being - crudely- seen as 'least to most fortuitous' in nature is part of the I Chings structure. Here's what Stephen Karcher says in 'Total I Ching':
    "According to this tradition [that of enmeshing the idea of the 8 trigrams as Bagua or spirit helpers, with the view of Wuxing or 5 processes], each hexagram is seen as being made up of two of the Eight Trigrams [in this case Water over Wind], which also connect it to the Five Processes. Between them, the two trigrams involved in a hexagram express the relation and tension between outer and inner worlds. The upper trigram, called the figure of distress or trouble (hui), represents the outer  world. The lower trigram, called the figure of trial/support (zhen), represents the inner world. These two terms reflect an old lunar way of thinking, suggesting the full moon and the dark moon. It was further elaborated to suggest specific meanings for the lien positions based on their place in the inner or outer worlds. The first and sixth lines were seen as entrance and culmination; the second and fifth lines as inner and outer centres; the third and fourth as the threshold of manifestation between the worlds."
    example:

    Hope that illuminates it for you a bit.
    Quote:

    syncro said:
    Out of the blue, adding with the chakras. Well not so out of the blue as they have alignment. Is this seen with hex's in general?

    Muladhara, base of the spine, earth
    -The water in this old well has seeped into the mud.
    Not even the animals come to drink from it.

    Svadhisthana - sacral, water
    -Shooting at fish in the well puts holes in the bucket. No one can draw from this well.

    Manipura - belly, fire
    -This well has been cleansed, but no one will drink from it.
    This is a tragic mistake, for it has much to offer prince and pauper alike.

    Anahata - heart, air
    -The well is carefully retiled, and in time made pure again.

    Vishuddha - throat, ether
    -The water in this well comes from a cool, deep, inexhaustible spring.

    Ajna, forehead, Om
    -This well is dependable and available to all.
    Supreme good fortune.



    :endorse:
    :kaneclap:
    SYNCRO, YOU'VE JUST BLASTED ME BRO!
    :triplaunch:
    A LOT to unpack with that, seriously it blasted me.
    I've never made that connection to 48, awesome stuff man!

    Quote:

    syncro said:
    Is this seen with hex's in general?



    One way to find out! Gonna to have to start overlaying the steps of change of various hex w/ chakra system, middle pillar and kabalistic stuff on tree of life- I'm sure there will be some juicy correlation going on.
    :trippinbawelz:

    :edit: formatting.

    Edited by Lithop (03/01/24 08:25 AM)

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    Offlinesyncro
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
        #28682426 - 03/01/24 10:47 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    Good stuff Lithop. :wizard:

    Yeah the hexagram structure you described aligns well. It seems kind of reversed though in that I would picture, at first was, heart and above, 4, 5, 6, as the inner world.

    But we can patch that up finely with quichquatch bosco.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro]
        #28682446 - 03/01/24 11:05 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    I can do that with the idea of awakening as a coming out in truth, in spirit and helpfulness. Inner like the outer, in another context. :nerd:

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    InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 1
        #28682558 - 03/01/24 12:46 PM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    Quote:

    syncro said:
    "mere hubris"

    Sometimes just looking for some help or a viewpoint.




    agreed. :thumbup:


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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro]
        #28682566 - 03/01/24 12:50 PM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    just a poor, old, baby tuning fork ringing in of the middling out of the coursing of an oddly weirding yet smoothly evening out sort of an unlimited kinda way.:mushroom2:


    --------------------
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    Edited by The Blind Ass (03/01/24 12:59 PM)

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    InvisibleLithop
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
        #28682831 - 03/01/24 04:36 PM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    Quote:

    The Blind Ass said:
    just a poor, old, baby tuning fork ringing in of the middling out of the coursing of an oddly weirding yet smoothly evening out sort of an unlimited kinda way.:mushroom2:



    :waitnonevermind:
    This gave me 50% 'Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?' and 50% dharmic remake of 'Brave Little Toaster' but with an eternal & all encompassing tuning fork as the protagonist, kinda vibes. With that being said, I feel I get it... :lol:
    How do you feel about partnering on the script ASAP?

    ...never mind.
    :tearchalice:

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    InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 2
        #28683070 - 03/01/24 07:48 PM (3 months, 24 days ago)

    :laugh2:


    Quote:

    p.s.

    Hey, magic-8-ball? ....






    ...Right?!  :awesanta:




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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: The Blind Ass] * 2
        #28688371 - 03/06/24 07:07 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

    For anyone interested: Latest DTFH with Robert Ryan is centred on Tarot, fuckin shweet episode!

    Intrigued on the inclusion of Hindu iconography and themes to his deck, my GF managed to order one, so I'll no doubt have a look! (maybe time to hit the Gita and Ramayana up again first)
    One irksome thing, the cost of shipping is almost equal to that of the deck... I'm all for eco-friendly practises, keeping goods safe in transit etc but about £75 on shipping ALONE for a book, deck and totebag is not my tempo.
    :migraine:
    So Roberts companion book will go unread here for the time being...

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 2
        #28688552 - 03/06/24 10:57 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

    looks like a cool deck! :smile: That shipping fee is definitely very steep though.

    I just ordered Benebell Wen's book on I Ching which I'm excited to dive into, I remember you saying you were reading it Lithop. Looks to be a very deep dive at over 900 pages!


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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: deff] * 1
        #28689494 - 03/07/24 02:45 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

    Quote:

    deff said:
    I just ordered Benebell Wen's book on I Ching which I'm excited to dive into, I remember you saying you were reading it Lithop. Looks to be a very deep dive at over 900 pages!



    Aww yeah- I'm excited on your behalf! See, that's one I could imagine having savage shipping since it's definitely a tome.
    Honestly I reckon you'll be nicely surprised at the scope of it, a deep dive certainly plus her translation/insight on the oracle text itsself is
    :chefskiss:
    Enjoy and I hope to some discuss some bits with you down the line.
    :tmckenna:

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop]
        #28722492 - 04/01/24 02:20 PM (2 months, 24 days ago)

    if time is non-linear or operates in some semi-causal way, then logically all of these possibilities open up. It could be as simple as causality being the case from a human perspective, but on orders of magnitude above such a perspective, suddenly things become strange. Maybe starting much smaller, time in relation to the universe's "age" is dependent on physical location. The speed of time is dependent on local gravity. Just from those two things alone we can see that spacetime has some strange, rather wavy properties.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Curious Coyote]
        #28723203 - 04/02/24 04:40 AM (2 months, 23 days ago)

    Which possibilities?

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
        #28723300 - 04/02/24 08:59 AM (2 months, 23 days ago)

    Well the really fun one is that it then becomes possible for information from "future" events to be sent to the present without violating causality. This would be because, in a circular geometry of spacetime, the future and the past are indistinguishable; the present is the only distinguishable "time" due to it being the current expression of the whole model. But, you can tweak it more since why stop at a circle? A helix becomes very interesting because, from top-down perspectives, it is a circle, but each recursion moves one across another dimension i.e. now there are multiple dimensions of movement through time, not just forwards and backwards.

    Not sure how kooky people are feeling with this stuff (still new to the forums), but Itzhak Bentov goes wild with theories regarding "timelessness." He essentially argues that if consciousness exists as an energy, a wave, then as it hits a peak, it touches infinity for roughly 5.39×10−44 s before resuming normal functioning. Planck time in general is just fascinating on its own. Time becomes chunky. Thicker than a bowl o oatmeal.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Curious Coyote] * 1
        #28723337 - 04/02/24 09:50 AM (2 months, 23 days ago)

    Therefore lateral excursions within the timeline can be expected.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown]
        #28724049 - 04/03/24 03:46 AM (2 months, 22 days ago)

    Quote:

    Curious Coyote said:
    Well the really fun one is that it then becomes possible for information from "future" events to be sent to the present without violating causality. This would be because, in a circular geometry of spacetime, the future and the past are indistinguishable; the present is the only distinguishable "time" due to it being the current expression of the whole model. But, you can tweak it more since why stop at a circle? A helix becomes very interesting because, from top-down perspectives, it is a circle, but each recursion moves one across another dimension i.e. now there are multiple dimensions of movement through time, not just forwards and backwards.



    I really enjoyed the helix idea, awesome illustration! And thanks for clearing that up.
    :hereyougo:
    How do you reckon relaying future information (assuming it is then acted on) it wouldn't interfer with causality though? For me that's tied into divination as a dialogue with guiding force ('self' originated or otherwise)- as opposed to say- the almanac from back to the future.
    Quote:

    Curious Coyote said:
    Not sure how kooky people are feeling with this stuff (still new to the forums), but Itzhak Bentov goes wild with theories regarding "timelessness." He essentially argues that if consciousness exists as an energy, a wave, then as it hits a peak, it touches infinity for roughly 5.39×10−44 s before resuming normal functioning. Planck time in general is just fascinating on its own. Time becomes chunky. Thicker than a bowl o oatmeal.



    :crazymonkey:
    First off, I see the allowance for kookiness as pretty wide open here, so don't worry about that- also welcome to the shroomery!
    And yeah that's awesome stuff, definitely percieved some chunky time amidst psychedelic experiences...
    Been meaning to check out 'Stalking the wild pendulum' for a while, is this the Bentov you recommend/have read?

    Quote:

    Buster_Brown said:
    Therefore lateral excursions within the timeline can be expected.



    I'll/ I've put the kettle on:tongue:

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
        #28724643 - 04/03/24 04:17 PM (2 months, 22 days ago)

    Quote:

    Lithop said:
    I really enjoyed the helix idea, awesome illustration! And thanks for clearing that up.
    :hereyougo:
    How do you reckon relaying future information (assuming it is then acted on) it wouldn't interfer with causality though? For me that's tied into divination as a dialogue with guiding force ('self' originated or otherwise)- as opposed to say- the almanac from back to the future.




    I must preface this with the fact that this is all fun to me. I do not imply at all that I am some "expert" in any field. With that being said, we can jump right in!

    So in keeping with the helix imagery, let us imagine that our helix sits atop an xy-plane and ascends/descends along a z axis. Travel along the z-axis can be thought of as iterative time, i.e. where along the cycle one is; whereas, the xy-plane can be thought of as the human perspective on time where it is an endlessly repeating, a circle. This may all sound out there, but a cyclical model of the (absolute) universe could work with this. Therefore, in ascending through time, the "past" would occur again. Is it the same? Does the radius or angle of the helix change at all? Are these variables or their own functions, or even sets? Without spiraling out into too much, one could then visit a past by accelerating along the spiral at a faster rate. Physically, this could be thought of as sitting near the event horizon, or within if your life is that dark, of a black hole and slowing down, locally, as a result. You exit your fantasy transporter in the past, extract what information you desire, enter it again, then exit in the next present. The future would be indeterminate because it hasn't happened in the current iteration so theoretically, it would be free to be influenced.

    Now, and this probably fits more into your question, could an observer descend the helix? If so, could they descend, ascend, and no violate causality? I imagine so, unless someone can say with absolute certainty such a things is wholly impossible, but how it would work turns my brain into mush. As with all cosmology, things get more spiritual as we walk outside of the human universe. My bigger point is that time as a dimension may be a flawed concept. It may be that it is a space with enclosed dimensions of movement just a helix has a radius, angle, pitch, and handedness in contrast with a circle's radius. What an impact one more dimension has on variability!

    That was incredibly long winded so I apologize. Minor sleep deprivation and intellectual excitement! Tl;dr going back in time by going forward would not violate causality. Is causality a universal? who knows?


    Quote:

    Lithop said:
    :crazymonkey:
    First off, I see the allowance for kookiness as pretty wide open here, so don't worry about that- also welcome to the shroomery!
    And yeah that's awesome stuff, definitely percieved some chunky time amidst psychedelic experiences...
    Been meaning to check out 'Stalking the wild pendulum' for a while, is this the Bentov you recommend/have read?




    Thank you for the warm welcome! I hope I am closer to finding my tribe, or rather, I hope my tribe is closer to finding me! I feel you on the chunky time. In my dream-like trips, a thought that seems to enjoy popping up is, "how many times have we done this?" It has sort of become my personal "who is john galt," as a nice little existential expression.
    And yes that's the book! If a little physics, mathematics, and logic doesn't bother you, it is a most fun read. Makes a lot of the whole Gateway-Monroe rabbit hole a bit easier to navigate in some ways. I still have not found how or why Monroe and Bentov are linked, but that is a whole other topic entirely.

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Curious Coyote] * 3
        #28724664 - 04/03/24 04:37 PM (2 months, 22 days ago)

    Had an image generator render these earlier this morning.

    Saw something about helix just now on this page so I figured
    why not blindly jump to conclusions about what’s going on here before reading the entire page.  Maybe I’ll get lucky.
    Unlikely… but …. :awesanta:  (< — ik, ik, it explains nothing! :shrug:)

    Anyways, Now presenting:

    Things & Stuff



    Yolo


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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 1
        #28730399 - 04/08/24 06:05 AM (2 months, 17 days ago)

    Great comment Coyote, thanks for the reply.
    I used to do the Munroe FLACs of Gateway Experience. Quite interesting stuff.
    I'm looking forward to many great convos on this stuff upcoming, love the direction you're taking it.
    :laugh:
    And hey from one usually self conscious long winded commenter to another: type what you wanna type eh if someone paying for their internet by word they can just not read it. Simple as. I for one enjoyed it :thumbup:
    Quote:

    The Blind Ass said:
    so I figured
    why not blindly jump to conclusions about what’s going on here before reading the entire page.  Maybe I’ll get lucky.



    :mentos:

    Second pic is very "I'll take 'doing the middle pillar ritual on psilohuasca for $200, please Alex."

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    Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
        #28732972 - 04/10/24 04:07 PM (2 months, 15 days ago)

    Quote:

    Lithop said:
    Great comment Coyote, thanks for the reply.
    I used to do the Munroe FLACs of Gateway Experience. Quite interesting stuff.
    I'm looking forward to many great convos on this stuff upcoming, love the direction you're taking it.
    :laugh:
    And hey from one usually self conscious long winded commenter to another: type what you wanna type eh if someone paying for their internet by word they can just not read it. Simple as. I for one enjoyed it :thumbup:




    Well thank you! That is very encouraging. I worry I ramble or lose myself to tangents way to easily so it is good to hear that it's not too much of a mess!
    As far as Gateway, I have done it as well and even experimented with doing some exercises on mushrooms (not that they need that). The whole experience is bizarre to say the least. I'd love to do an in person one when I can casually spend $3000 laughs in 3.5% YoY inflation :hahthatsrich:
    Quote:

    The Blind Ass said:
    Had an image generator render these earlier this morning.

    Saw something about helix just now on this page so I figured
    why not blindly jump to conclusions about what’s going on here before reading the entire page.  Maybe I’ll get lucky.
    Unlikely… but …. :awesanta:  (< — ik, ik, it explains nothing! :shrug:)

    Anyways, Now presenting:

    Things & Stuff



    Yolo



    How perfect that you mapped it out visually without even diving deep into the conversation. The helix imagery seems to be resonating! Kind of get minor Kabbalah vibes from them.

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