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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope]
    #28673951 - 02/24/24 10:08 AM (3 months, 30 days ago)

Do you think Yeats' Rough Beast actually gets to go to Bethlehem?

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28674186 - 02/24/24 01:01 PM (3 months, 30 days ago)

its hour come round at last

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro]
    #28674207 - 02/24/24 01:17 PM (3 months, 30 days ago)

An hour = 41.66 years, yada yada, 1000 years = a day.

Edited by Buster_Brown (02/24/24 01:18 PM)

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28674587 - 02/24/24 06:42 PM (3 months, 30 days ago)

I took the last lines as no atheists in foxholes, and Matthew 7:7, asking, given, but what rough beast, what state of mind in that hour?

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, 
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

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Offlinedreamninja
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28674748 - 02/24/24 08:45 PM (3 months, 30 days ago)

I divine with cards and dice.

I do spreds with playing deck cards.

Rolling the dice is good as well.

A variant

Card deck dice roll one card flip per roll of the dice.

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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 2
    #28676494 - 02/26/24 03:57 AM (3 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Triskelope said:
Thank you for your detailed reply Lithop!




:mypleasure:
Back atchya!
Quote:

Triskelope said:
I do feel it has value, for what sounds like similar reasons to you. I tend to consult cards when I am enmeshed in my Emotional Mind as I don’t trust my judgement to be at it’s soundest in that headspace, so it can be helpful to me to take a step back and reflect on a simple reading. Conversely, if I’m more based in my Rational or Wise mind - I don’t typically use the cards (unless my intuition is really pushing hard for it for some reason). Well, no that’s not totally true.. there is another reason I find it useful occasionally, which is for artistic inspiration & to get creative juices flowing if I am coming up short on ideas.



:awesomenod:
Good point about divining when 'enmeshed in your emotional mind' but it makes me think of the role of each of these mindsets in divination. I personally think, less of the rational mind is good for the divination casting, where less of the emotional is good for the initial consulting phase, if you get what I mean.
Also yeah, I can dig using these methods for creative inspiration!

Quote:

Triskelope said:
As for the question regarding predictive or introspective. I think it’s possible to be both. For myself it’s for introspection, but I have a friend who has given readings that did end up being predictive to some extent. I am and probably always be somewhat skeptical side though on how much veracity there is to that. I wonder if it is somehow actually predictive or comes about for some other reason, such as our Will latching on to that and making it happen because the idea was planted in the subconscious..



The subconscious making it a self fulfilling prophecy type deal. Well I think it certainly pays to wary of that and can be better to err on the side of skepticism rather than straight up project what you want from it. It's similar to how I see the difference between 'pop astrology' and what the actual study of that stuff was meant to represent, something deeper and richer with scope for interpretation and correlation that speaks to measuring and deducting based on the constant & cyclical currents of change that run through life, rather than "Oh cool, I'm coming into money soon because of a certain planets position!" type.
In his I Ching translation Richard Wilhelm sums it well, IMO, saying (and this applies to divination at large):

"The enormous value of the I Ching is the way in which it uses its images to expose and develop intuitive dimensions whilst instilling in the seeker the moral fibre, perseverance and  steadfastness needed to balance and accomodate the emerging unconcious in a very practical way. It prompts inward-turning and conscious- unconscious inter relation but always binds them deliberately to the real world. It brings out the force of inner truth.
It does not hold with the idea of Nirvana sought through inactivity. But it equally posits that any understanding  of the real, practical world is utterly dependant  upon some measure of awareness of the 'invisible world'. The two must be taken together, with recognition of the immutable laws of the universe (or the cyclic law of change) that govern both in nature and in man, for things to make sense. In essence, the I Ching standpoint is that non-practical spirituality and non-spiritual pragmatism are each as unbalanced as the other. However, it must also be said, to some people its spirit is clear: to others it conveys little or nothing. Only the reader can decide upon its importance."


Quote:

Triskelope said:
I also agree with what you said about
Quote:

Balancing a discerning attitude- where you are curious enough to seek but won't just believe everything at face value


that is the stance I try to take with it as well, and since we can often be susceptible to confirmation bias.



:yesnod:
Why it's important to study & expand our knowledge on the method of divination, its history and patterns etc.

Quote:

Triskelope said:
For methods I use: I have a couple card decks, and my own personal method I’ve been experimenting with (doesn’t have an official name) is like is sort of a blend of things where I use randomized numbers to sort open / allow the Universe/Allies/Guides (whatever you want to call this) to have it’s say on what I should look at in that moment (ie: what book, then what page of that book, etc), and following those threads to where that leads, and then integrating intuition by seeing what gives the strongest pull. I use this mostly for the artistic inspiration I mentioned above.



Cool! Sounds like a really good way to get space from the parts of mind that would keep these less rational or measured connections being made.
No matter how you look at it, an element of detatchment, or surrendering control & expectation, embracing the random seems to be required.

Quote:

Triskelope said:
As to impacts, I would say it (along with my art practices) aids in strengthening & trusting intuition, and trusting in the not knowingness of it all. I also agree with what you said about it being
Quote:

rich kibble for thought, reflection and advice


I don’t have any specific moments to share, but seeing wild synchronicity at play has been and always will be fascinating to me.



Spot on with my view of excersising intution!
"Trusting in the not knowingness of it all" was one of the first big practical lessons divination gave me, a surprisingly good antidote to anxiety.
And yeah, synchronicity is fucking fascinating- love to catch a glimpse of it in action.
:vaped:
Quote:

Triskelope said: I haven’t actually tried this (yet), but I am curious about it. If you have any more to share about this, I’d love to learn more.



Haha, basically I have largely found deep merit in CONSULTING during a sort of, pre-trip ritual stack. So, once the space is cleared by whatever means, intentions have been set and whathaveyou, I'll consume my psychedelic and after a short while cast the coins or pull some cards or w/e & just leaving the rest of the interpretation till the next day or beyond. Other times, where I've dug into it fully and got down the rabbit hole of starting to interpret while actually tripping hard have led to both deep, unexpected insight but has also lead to a bit of fuckery in what I think it's saying to me... IE the risk of projection & confusion seems heavily increased if you're blasted.
:lol:

Quote:

Triskelope said:
Here is a card for you (Lithop): + card meaning Fun fact: when I was shuffling while asking for a card for you, this same exact card fell out of the deck 2 times in a row, so take that how you will :heart:



Interesting, thanks! It's a cool deck, so it's alleged 'bows' is 'wands'? I'll look further into what it suggests.
On the surface/ purely visual level, the card reminds me of hex 13: FELLOWSHIP

but in terms of what I can initially gather of its meaning, it more readily fits with hex 9: THE TAMING POWER OF THE GENTLE/SMALL ACCUMULATES which speaks to the idea of restraint in progress, biding time and sticking at your path & funnily enough I got in my last cast.
It could, also, be related to hex 64: TRANSITION/BEFORE COMPLETION since it suggests a being helped through and towards a favourable end to, perhaps, difficult cirumstances.
It could be that it speaks to the message of all 3, since there are numerous common threads.
Thanks for the reply- you should have a look at those hexagrams mentioned when you find time, and see what you think!

P.S if you're quite artistic, visual and a card person etc, I highly recommend 'Visionary I Ching' cards. The book itsself gives basic allright non culture/ era specific ideas of each hexagram (something that can put people off from certain translations) but the art style on the cards is so nicely abstract as to work REALLY well for interpretation, IMO.
And its visual style is rad when tripping too.


:edit: fixed photos

Edited by Lithop (02/26/24 04:07 AM)

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Offlinedeff
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 3
    #28676830 - 02/26/24 11:32 AM (3 months, 28 days ago)

I have that Visionary I Ching deck and love it, I agree that the book's descriptions would work well for most people regardless of culture and the art is great.

I just ordered an Egyptian Gods Oracle deck that I am excited to use, the art is very inspiring to me (looks like very authentic ancient Egyptian imagery) and it will be interesting to see what sort of readings it gives.

A main use of cards (Tarot, Oracle, I Ching, also Norse runes) that I use is to follow my inner prompting to pull however many cards feels right each morning, as insights into what will play out through the day (themes, lessons, etc.) and it's always neat to see how the cards' archetypes can play out in unique ways (some days are more obvious than others).

Divination is a great way to engage parts of your mind that don't always get used as much, to see the layers of symbolism / archetypes in your life, especially with something like Tarot where cards are combined together in unique ways. Definitely something I want to keep pursuing and working with. Great topic :smile:


--------------------


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InvisibleTriskelope
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 2
    #28677439 - 02/26/24 07:59 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

Thank you for sharing more about the I Ching. I’ve not had any experience with it before, but you’ve sparked my interest. I love the look of the cards you suggested and I’ve added them to my “wish” list - they look amazing, and totally up my alley. The art on that card reminds me a bit of the art Lady Frieda Harris did for the Crowley-Thoth tarot deck. My father of all people was the one who started me out by gifting me with my first deck of cards which was that particular deck. Which brings me around to this:

Quote:

It's similar to how I see the difference between 'pop astrology' and what the actual study of that stuff was meant to represent, something deeper and richer with scope for interpretation and correlation that speaks to measuring and deducting based on the constant & cyclical currents of change that run through life, rather than "Oh cool, I'm coming into money soon because of a certain planets position!" type




Because it was the gift of that deck & the imagery on the cards with their ties to astrological symbols that started me down the curious rabbit hole of astrology instead which I found vastly more intriguing than learning how to tarot. So I really get you here, and I love the way you put it since there’s just so much to it. IFYKYK. :stars:

Quote:

Cool! Sounds like a really good way to get space from the parts of mind that would keep these less rational or measured connections being made.
No matter how you look at it, an element of detatchment, or surrendering control & expectation, embracing the random seems to be required.


Yes! It is exactly this!

Quote:

"Trusting in the not knowingness of it all" was one of the first big practical lessons divination gave me, a surprisingly good antidote to anxiety


It is so refreshing that you know what I mean by that, and yes coming back to this thought is one of the most effective ways I’ve come across to help calm anxiety in myself, that and a nice soak in the tub, lol.

Thank you for elaborating on your trip process. I’ll ponder and absorb this and see if I can integrate divination in a gentle way into my next journey, whenever that may be.

Re: my deck, yes Bows takes the place of Wands, Arrows instead of Swords, Vessels instead of Cups, and Stones instead of Disks, or Pentacles. It is the only tarot deck to date that I’ve felt strongly & strangely drawn to. So I have 2 tarot decks, this one and the Crowley-Thoth from my dad.

I’ll take a look at those hexagrams you mentioned.

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 1
    #28677455 - 02/26/24 08:15 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

I fabricated a deck from scrap roofing metal laboriously cut out with tin-snips and then tried to pass an electric current thru the deck to imbue them with an extra vibe only to discover there was some kind of interference so I boiled it hoping to remove the plastic film or whatever but only succeeded in permanently setting the blood stains.

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InvisibleTriskelope
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 2
    #28677501 - 02/26/24 08:56 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

I believe there is an old saying that is relevant to this situation.. it goes something like… “Pics or it didn’t happen”

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope]
    #28677521 - 02/26/24 09:14 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

It was an amateurist product that was left by the wayside

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28677542 - 02/26/24 09:30 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

Here's someone who cross-refferenced YChing/Tarot/Astrology

https://www.hermetica.info/

Edited by Buster_Brown (02/26/24 09:30 PM)

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InvisibleTriskelope
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: deff] * 1
    #28677561 - 02/26/24 09:48 PM (3 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

deff said:
I have that Visionary I Ching deck and love it, I agree that the book's descriptions would work well for most people regardless of culture and the art is great.

I just ordered an Egyptian Gods Oracle deck that I am excited to use, the art is very inspiring to me (looks like very authentic ancient Egyptian imagery) and it will be interesting to see what sort of readings it gives.

A main use of cards (Tarot, Oracle, I Ching, also Norse runes) that I use is to follow my inner prompting to pull however many cards feels right each morning, as insights into what will play out through the day (themes, lessons, etc.) and it's always neat to see how the cards' archetypes can play out in unique ways (some days are more obvious than others).

Divination is a great way to engage parts of your mind that don't always get used as much, to see the layers of symbolism / archetypes in your life, especially with something like Tarot where cards are combined together in unique ways. Definitely something I want to keep pursuing and working with. Great topic :smile:




Hi Deff, thank you for sharing!

I did a quick Goog of the Egyptian Gods Oracle deck and it looks cool. I hope you will let us know more about what you think of it once you’ve had a chance to work with it. I’m very interested to hear about the sorts of readings it gives as well.

I like the daily method you practice. I used to do a daily 1 card draw in the morning but I’ve kind of fallen out of the habit due to the morning schedule I have now. I miss it though.

Here’s a card for you:
+ Meaning

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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Triskelope] * 3
    #28679140 - 02/28/24 03:41 AM (3 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

deff said:
I have that Visionary I Ching deck and love it, I agree that the book's descriptions would work well for most people regardless of culture and the art is great.



:sambergfive:
Quote:

deff said:
I just ordered an Egyptian Gods Oracle deck that I am excited to use, the art is very inspiring to me (looks like very authentic ancient Egyptian imagery) and it will be interesting to see what sort of readings it gives.



Sounds sick!
Quote:

deff said:
Divination is a great way to engage parts of your mind that don't always get used as much, to see the layers of symbolism / archetypes in your life, especially with something like Tarot where cards are combined together in unique ways. Definitely something I want to keep pursuing and working with. Great topic :smile:



:awesomenod:
Quote:

Triskelope said:
Thank you for sharing more about the I Ching. I’ve not had any experience with it before, but you’ve sparked my interest. I love the look of the cards you suggested and I’ve added them to my “wish” list - they look amazing, and totally up my alley. The art on that card reminds me a bit of the art Lady Frieda Harris did for the Crowley-Thoth tarot deck. My father of all people was the one who started me out by gifting me with my first deck of cards which was that particular deck.



Sweet, I hope you enjoy it if/when you pick it up!
In terms of the Thoth deck... The artwork is some of the most beautiful, intriguing and mystical I've ever seen on a deck. I'm a big fan of visionary artists, Robert Venosa for example, and something of the Thoth deck brings me the same vibe.
Lady Frieda done an otherworldly job on it, such depth is put into every aspect - it oozes magic. GF has that deck around but I don't want to really dig into it until I'm more knowledgable on Tarot- sticking w/ Rider to Waite until the basics sink in more. But yeah, I can see why it rings similar with you, a type of radiant colouring and abstract styling that both share, in fact I'd not be surprised to find Joan Larimore inspired by LFH. All that hype on a deck I've only looked over a handful of times, to someone who actually uses it- talk about preaching to the choir.
:lol:
Quote:

Triskelope said:
It is so refreshing that you know what I mean by that, and yes coming back to this thought is one of the most effective ways I’ve come across to help calm anxiety in myself, that and a nice soak in the tub, lol.



:namaste:
Simple to express but tough to enact, IME.
Quote:

Triskelope said:
Because it was the gift of that deck & the imagery on the cards with their ties to astrological symbols that started me down the curious rabbit hole of astrology instead which I found vastly more intriguing than learning how to tarot. So I really get you here, and I love the way you put it since there’s just so much to it. IFYKYK. :stars:



Interesting, there's something seems intrinsically usable about Astrology to me too- especially in regards to divination, ritual etc but it can be tough wading through the BS.
Have you studied much about it overall?
Quote:

Triskelope said:
Thank you for elaborating on your trip process. I’ll ponder and absorb this and see if I can integrate divination in a gentle way into my next journey, whenever that may be.



:salute:
Quote:

Triskelope said:
Re: my deck, yes Bows takes the place of Wands, Arrows instead of Swords, Vessels instead of Cups, and Stones instead of Disks, or Pentacles. It is the only tarot deck to date that I’ve felt strongly & strangely drawn to. So I have 2 tarot decks, this one and the Crowley-Thoth from my dad.

I’ll take a look at those hexagrams you mentioned.



Best to trust intuition about these sort of things, if it speaks to you BEFORE you've consulted it then you're off to a good start it seems!
:lol:
It's really cool that your dad got you such an awesome deck as your first.
:rockon:
In terms of the hexs, apparantly hex 35: ADVANCEMENT/PROGRESS is the most applicable to 8 of Bows/Wands.
Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
I fabricated a deck from scrap roofing metal laboriously cut out with tin-snips and then tried to pass an electric current thru the deck to imbue them with an extra vibe only to discover there was some kind of interference so I boiled it hoping to remove the plastic film or whatever but only succeeded in permanently setting the blood stains.



:lmafo:
Knowing you only through our brief interactions, I thought this has equal chance to be factual as made up for comedic effect haha.
A deck that offers inadvertant blood sacrifice while shuffling.
:dying:

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Offlineyawhay
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: Lithop] * 1
    #28681037 - 02/29/24 11:20 AM (3 months, 25 days ago)

Not sure what you mean by divination but I can say most things earthly aren't very fruitful in the realm of divinity.

The highest among them I would claim are eating enough food to sustain oneself, having an active lifestyle, being cleanly in all regards, and being nice.

Beyond that it's just tea pots and salt shakers. The real juice is out there inebriated on doses of psychedelics so high you can't see the ground. And when you are looking over fields of cosmic realm in another dimensionality with the kings and queens of ancient mysteries, filled with plasmagoric love and understanding of the universe, and you realize you are a god, with divine benevolent intention, and peace....that is divination to me and any other attempt at it is mere hubris

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: yawhay] * 1
    #28681980 - 02/29/24 09:59 PM (3 months, 25 days ago)

That's an interesting yet iffy concept.  But it does have lots of room to play around with in terms of how and in which ways one can convey any number of ideas one can imagine along with it.

Here, i'll give the ol' imagination a go while pretending from the point of view of what you've just written. 

(*Note: I may or may not have entertained some very similar notions more than a few times before :tongue:)

*Cracks Knuckles*

Quote:

~ O M g ~

'Uh..oh...
...S h i-




:bigbang:




Well...

If I were a 'god' i'd probably just imagine myself as something less silly than a god and something more like as the most ancient & newest aka primordial entity. 
And, as naturally encompassing everything as sentiency as a virtual place located nowhere at any time whatsoever, and, wherein which spacetime emerges causally of naturally being aware as to presence of awareness as emptiness yet sentiently aware anyways.

Thusly, including but not limited to ~ occurring naturally such as to coincide with all things like invisible yet apparent transluminescence shining of an unlimited number of potentialities as infinitely combinationally reconfigurable possibilities of a boundless imagination fluxing as the instantaneousness of an eternity of transfigurativity.

In efx, naturally making some waves in the process, naturally!
Furthemore, and, in so doing,  (throwing the ol' weight of nearly almost nothing around everywhere) gravitationality ensues and momentum releases spontaneously as if right here and now unglued of the imagination via transmitting endlessly fractalizing imaginary energy. 

You gnome mean? Because, from all the omnidirectional spinning of course the coursing of the continuum of spacetime results, naturally.  And, as such the direct connectivity available to all via all things in all ways by all means seemingly becomes as if everything were already always here now just for the sheer sport of loving to play.

:cool::thumbup:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: yawhay] * 3
    #28682132 - 03/01/24 03:21 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

"mere hubris"

Sometimes just looking for some help or a viewpoint.

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 2
    #28682134 - 03/01/24 03:37 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

I don't use oracles often, but I did a toss of the sticks "for today."

Quote:

48 - Forty-Eight
Ching / The Well

Deep Waters Penetrated and drawn to the surface:
The Superior Person refreshes the people with constant encouragement to help one another.

Encampments, settlements, walled cities, whole empires may rise and fall, yet the Well at the center endures, never drying to dust, never overflowing.
It served those before and will serve those after.
Again and again you may draw from the Well, but if the bucket breaks or the rope is too short there will be misfortune.

SITUATION ANALYSIS:
There is a Source common to us all.
Jung named it the Collective Unconscious.
Others hail it as God within.
Inside each of us are dreamlike symbols and archetypes, emotions and instincts that we share with every other human being.
When we feel a lonely separateness from others, it is not because this Well within has dried up, but because we have lost the means to reach its waters.
You need to reclaim the tools necessary to penetrate to the depths of your fellows.
Then the bonds you build will be as timeless and inexhaustible as the Well that nourishes them.



Edited by syncro (03/01/24 03:38 AM)

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28682135 - 03/01/24 03:45 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

I thought the progression of the lines in the hex are interesting.

from line 1 upward:

-The water in this old well has seeped into the mud.
Not even the animals come to drink from it.

-Shooting at fish in the well puts holes in the bucket. No one can draw from this well.

-This well has been cleansed, but no one will drink from it.
This is a tragic mistake, for it has much to offer prince and pauper alike.

-The well is carefully retiled, and in time made pure again.

-The water in this well comes from a cool, deep, inexhaustible spring.

-This well is dependable and available to all.
Supreme good fortune.

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Let’s Talk Divination [Re: syncro] * 2
    #28682170 - 03/01/24 05:27 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

Out of the blue, adding with the chakras. Well not so out of the blue as they have alignment. Is this seen with hex's in general?

Muladhara, base of the spine, earth
-The water in this old well has seeped into the mud.
Not even the animals come to drink from it.

Svadhisthana - sacral, water
-Shooting at fish in the well puts holes in the bucket. No one can draw from this well.

Manipura - belly, fire
-This well has been cleansed, but no one will drink from it.
This is a tragic mistake, for it has much to offer prince and pauper alike.

Anahata - heart, air
-The well is carefully retiled, and in time made pure again.

Vishuddha - throat, ether
-The water in this well comes from a cool, deep, inexhaustible spring.

Ajna, forehead, Om
-This well is dependable and available to all.
Supreme good fortune.

Edited by syncro (03/01/24 05:41 AM)

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