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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation?
    #28668945 - 02/20/24 10:41 PM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Sitting here pondering thermodynamics while I smoke this hash bowl… 🤣

The condensation and pooled up water on the surface of my no-pour agar plates is annoying. I’ve read a handful of methods for avoiding or remedying it, but (no offense) they all sound kinda annoying, too. I’ve just been pouring out the excess pooled up water in the SAB before inoculating - works, but the plates are still very wet and the condensation comes right back.

So… Heating and cooling the agar mixture in the wet, saturated, steamy, pressurized/depressurized environment inside the PC results in drippy wet agar plates - both inside and out. No surprise there.

I wonder what would happen if I took my sterilized no-pour plates (already cooled/solidified, with screw tops slightly cracked), put them into a warm oven at around 170 degrees for a bit, then turned off the heat and let them cool to room temp with the door closed.

If the temp stayed low enough for the agar to remain solid, but high enough to help the water evaporate… then the plate cooled in the DRY environment inside the oven… Maybe I’d be left with a plate that’s both sterile AND dry inside?

Has anyone tried this?

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InvisibleCh3f

Registered: 03/09/22
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: SonomaFungi_707]
    #28669034 - 02/21/24 12:41 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Something to consider- as the plates and the air inside the dishes heat and cools, the change in pressure may pull in outside air. This may lead to contamination of the plates, which will be apparent around the edges. Have you tried pouring your plates? Lots of people do that in SABs. Not super convenient but with a big enough SAB you can do it. I would guess you'll get better results from either pouring your plates or just keep doing what you're doing. The extra handling you're describing can only increase the change of something going wrong.

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Invisiblehellofresh
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: SonomaFungi_707]
    #28669053 - 02/21/24 01:09 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

What kind of no pour plates are you using? Have you tried a thinner amount of agar?


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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: Ch3f]
    #28669423 - 02/21/24 09:16 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Ch3f said:
Something to consider- as the plates and the air inside the dishes heat and cools, the change in pressure may pull in outside air. This may lead to contamination of the plates, which will be apparent around the edges. Have you tried pouring your plates? Lots of people do that in SABs. Not super convenient but with a big enough SAB you can do it. I would guess you'll get better results from either pouring your plates or just keep doing what you're doing. The extra handling you're describing can only increase the change of something going wrong.




I considered that, but then it occurred to me that essentially the same process happens in the pressure cooker. After venting and during the entire ~20 minute cycle, the pressure cooker (and the insides of my agar containers) is filled with hot, pressurized water vapor. When you cut the heat, that water vapor condenses back into water droplets and it gets replaced by ambient air drawn in through the various vent holes in the PC.

I guess the hope is that this process happens slow enough, and the interior of the PC or oven remains still enough, that any contaminants that enter tend to settle out rather than remain airborne and snake their way through the threads of my agar containers.

I think I’ll give it a try today with some “control” plates and see if they develope any contamination over the next week or two.

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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: hellofresh]
    #28669431 - 02/21/24 09:23 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

hellofresh said:
What kind of no pour plates are you using? Have you tried a thinner amount of agar?




I’m using these “Holy Grail” style screw-top pp5 containers. Here’s a batch I just pulled from the PC and removed the foil. Some appear to be free of condensation, but even those ones have pooled water on the agar surface

I haven’t really played around with thinner pours, but that’s worth a try. I’m still very new at this, but I’ve found that thicker agar makes it much easier/faster to transfer my tiny agar bits from the end of my knife to the receiving plate with one  downward slicing motion. Maybe there’s a different trick I don’t know yet, but when the simple slice trick fails I tend to make a mess trying to get the damn agar  sliver to let go of the knife and stay put.

(Not sure what this grain jar pic is doing here… Just disregard that part.)

.

Edited by SonomaFungi_707 (02/21/24 09:24 AM)

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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: SonomaFungi_707]
    #28669436 - 02/21/24 09:28 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

I tried pouring agar in an SAB before I switched to no-pour. I was a complete noob at the time, but still had some mixed success. I’m sure I could master it, but I’m just not interested in wasting a bunch of single use plastic Petri dishes on an ongoing basis.

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OfflineYahra
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: SonomaFungi_707]
    #28669440 - 02/21/24 09:30 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

I no-pour glass petris and there is no condensation at all.



:shrug:

The one in the middle has a few drops, but that's on the outside.

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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: Yahra]
    #28669466 - 02/21/24 09:55 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Ooo… That’s interesting. I might have to give that a try if I can’t find my groove with these PP5 screw tops.

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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: SonomaFungi_707] * 2
    #28669473 - 02/21/24 10:02 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Alrighty! I’ve got two soggy plates in the oven at about ~160*F, and timer is set for 30 minutes. Tops are slightly unscrewed. At the 30 minute mark, I’ll turn off the oven and let them slowly cool to room temp over the course of a couple/few hours. Then I’ll screw the tops down tight and set them aside to see what happens.

Edited by SonomaFungi_707 (02/21/24 10:16 AM)

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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: SonomaFungi_707]
    #28669499 - 02/21/24 10:20 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

I just peaked at the plates after about 20 minutes in the oven, and it seems like all the condensation has either evaporated or ‘sorbed back into the agar. Heat is off now, and we’ll see how they look when they’re cool.

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OnlinemorningWood
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: SonomaFungi_707] * 1
    #28669541 - 02/21/24 10:41 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

I have a shelf with a florescent light mounted underneath. I find if I flipem over and leave them on the shelf for a day or two they clear up real nice. I suppose a heat hat would also work too


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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: morningWood] * 1
    #28669601 - 02/21/24 11:32 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Well, 20 minutes in the oven didn’t do it. They looked great while they were still warm and the oven was on, but once they cooled they were right back where they started.

I might try a longer “cook” some time, but I’m scrapping this science experiment for now.

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Invisiblemeta_mmxxii
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: SonomaFungi_707] * 1
    #28669630 - 02/21/24 11:50 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

SonomaFungi_707 said:
Well, 20 minutes in the oven didn’t do it. They looked great while they were still warm and the oven was on, but once they cooled they were right back where they started.

I might try a longer “cook” some time, but I’m scrapping this science experiment for now.



Agar has lots of water, the condensation comes from the water evaporating onto the lid, and if the lid is colder than the agar the hot steam from the agar causes the cold lid to condensate, if you are heating the containers up to a temp that will cause the condensation on the lids to evaporate, you are making more steam from the agar with the heat you are introducing.
The agar cools at a much slower pace than water so even though your containers have cooled, the agar has not, that is why your oven method failed.
I have not found a no pour tek that works for me, it may work for others, but I have had the same issues as you OP. The only method I have not tried is the Holy Grail method, as I hate screw top agar plates. So, I gave up on the process and learned how to hot pour successfully. My condensation issues are over.
Good luck to you and I hope you find what works for you.


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OfflineSonomaFungi_707
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: meta_mmxxii]
    #28669637 - 02/21/24 11:56 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Thanks for the reply. What you said makes good sense.

I’m going to prepare another batch of my screw-top no-pours today, but I’m going to try pouring them much thinner - just enough to cover the bottom. Maybe having less “thermal mass” of agar in there will help reduce the condensation. I’ll just have to experiment and find an easy way to deposit my agar slivers onto a receiving plate without doing the “slice”.

I’m basically doing the Holy Grail “foil method” (foil instead of that funky Christmas cookie container) but not having as much success as I hoped. Maybe the thinner pours will help?

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Invisiblemeta_mmxxii
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Re: Anyone attempted to “cook off” condensation? [Re: SonomaFungi_707]
    #28669643 - 02/21/24 12:00 PM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

SonomaFungi_707 said:
Thanks for the reply. What you said makes good sense.

I’m going to prepare another batch of my screw-top no-pours today, but I’m going to try pouring them much thinner - just enough to cover the bottom. Maybe having less “thermal mass” of agar in there will help reduce the condensation. I’ll just have to experiment and find an easy way to deposit my agar slivers onto a receiving plate without doing the “slice”.

I’m basically doing the Holy Grail “foil method” (foil instead of that funky Christmas cookie container) but not having as much success as I hoped. Maybe the thinner pours will help?



Another thing I would suggest is do as hellofresh has suggested and pour a thinner amount of agar, less agar, less chance for condensation.
hellofresh is a wiz at no pour agar so I would listen to anything he advises.


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