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Baba Yaga
Psychedelic Minion

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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: elasticaltiger] 4
#28667256 - 02/19/24 06:09 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
elasticaltiger said: Baba, and co. you have so much data and experience with this thread, would you consider putting together a "how it should look" thread for panaelous? Our current HISL thread is almost entirely cubensis focused.
Not sure if this concept is applicable to pans in a useful way as it is with cubes. There are lots of expressions when it comes to mycelium growth like for example the look of a fully colonized surface which can be so different depending on what and how one is growing. This might be true for cubes as well but I have a feeling it is even extremer with pans.
I have written a first draft for a Pan Myth Buster Thread which I was planning to run as a group effort with discussion and everyone who likes to contribute photos and data and as soon as a topic has been covered sufficiently it will be published in the OP and hopefully we will end up with a polished OP.
I hope to post this in the next couple of weeks.
Edited by Baba Yaga (02/19/24 06:16 PM)
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ReverendMyc
succinct is not my forte

Registered: 03/29/19
Posts: 2,015
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga] 3
#28667304 - 02/19/24 06:51 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Cool idea, Baba. This tread has helped make pans more accessible to the masses so it will be cool to have more info out there.
I just got back from a 10 day trip and am pretty happy with some of the results of my neglect tek monos. Starting from today I will be home and give them the misting and attention that they deserve for a couple of weeks.
Still early days with all of these so I am just after grows that I can clone to start some box loving cultures. I know that some of these were not ideal spawn candidates, but took a shot anyway. Each tray is a pint of millet spawn and about 1.5 quarts of LMP hpoo/coir.
Happy to hear any suggestions.
Pan cyan bunnell Day 19
 Gone for 10 days. No misting or attention of any kind. Pretty sure I need to toss the infected one in the back.
Pan Cyan Kona HI & Pan Cambo Komodo Day 19 Gone for 10 days. No misting or attention of any kind. They
  Cyan Kona went wild and Cambo Komodo getting going too. Needed to get a second picture because the Komodo were hiding behind the Kona.
  Harvested Kona to get prints and clones started.
Pan Cyan BVI Day 12
 Gone for 10 days so total neglect tek so far.
Pan Bisporus Day 12
 Gone for 10 days so total neglect tek to date. About time to case.
Pan Cyan Bunnell(front) & Kona(back) Day 12
 Gone for 10 days. Total neglect tek and both are doing okay uncased.
Pan Cambo Komodo(front) & Cyan Wild Coast(back) Day 12
 10 days on their own. No attention at all yet.
Sorry for the repetition, I keep a journal with a post for each tub to track progress and changes.
-------------------- Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Prepour Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023 Don't Panic   
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RockinRobot
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: ReverendMyc] 3
#28667979 - 02/20/24 10:17 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Posted this in the main Pans Thread. TTBVI, Not to bad for my first harvest. Even got some nice prints.
Question though. I compressed my sub just like I do with every other variety. Any idea why everything grew around the edges?

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kirkeng
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: RockinRobot] 2
#28667985 - 02/20/24 10:28 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Mine have done that on occasion with ms genetics, later flushes will usually fill in the middle. I also notice it when my surface is seeing uneven evaporation cycles. Considering I do them in unmodded tubs the edges see more drastic cycles than the middle due to the gaps surrounding the edge of the tub. Can create a disparity of faster evaporation on the edges and slower near the middle.
Iβve tried adjusting my listing to focus heavier towards the edges and lighter towards the center which has helped somewhat for ms cultures. Clones I rarely see this issue. Iβd say a mixture of varied genetics from ms and non uniform conditions across the surface.
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,438
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga] 2
#28667993 - 02/20/24 10:38 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said:
Quote:
elasticaltiger said: Baba, and co. you have so much data and experience with this thread, would you consider putting together a "how it should look" thread for panaelous? Our current HISL thread is almost entirely cubensis focused.
Not sure if this concept is applicable to pans in a useful way as it is with cubes. There are lots of expressions when it comes to mycelium growth like for example the look of a fully colonized surface which can be so different depending on what and how one is growing. This might be true for cubes as well but I have a feeling it is even extremer with pans.
I have written a first draft for a Pan Myth Buster Thread which I was planning to run as a group effort with discussion and everyone who likes to contribute photos and data and as soon as a topic has been covered sufficiently it will be published in the OP and hopefully we will end up with a polished OP.
I hope to post this in the next couple of weeks.
I'm excited to read it!
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh wouldβve sold more than one painting if heβd put tigers in them.βBill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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3.A.M
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: elasticaltiger] 4
#28670681 - 02/22/24 12:05 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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I dunno man, even when I try and be consistent pans like to fuck with me, got these 2 tubs of Nec D that I was waiting to colonise, and nope, just started pinning, same culture I was using for previous grows, same conditions, just, fruits π No casing at all.

Edited by 3.A.M (02/22/24 12:49 AM)
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tree frog
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga] 2
#28670742 - 02/22/24 02:12 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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I'd love to see a new general Pan thread too, personally.
I prefer tents etc because of heating bill arguments with my gf (had one today that wasn't even cult related, but she pays the bills, and it's her house, so )
There's excellent information in the general pans thread, but it's not accessible, and the OP is outdated. Finding your OP for this thread and using your culture selection techniques for cloning etc was how I found my way, Baba. But, I could have easily missed this thread had it not been on the front page when I was scrolling.
So, I think a lot of people could benefit from having things more accessible generally. Which I think has been a lot of your intention with Pans in Monos to begin with.
But, growing in tents and jcms, I feel less compelled to post all my trials and errors and successes here, even though some of the stuff I'm playing with (like poo jars etc.) are things that maybe could be cross posted. But because it's not specific to monos, and I don't want to annoy everyone by double posting, that stuff ends up in the other thread.
Maybe I should gauge people's feelings about that in the other thread?
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Baba Yaga
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: tree frog] 4
#28671296 - 02/22/24 12:10 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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I agree, the official thread is more like a specific "ask you questions here" thread and a place to share some general whereabouts, successes or failures and that is what its good for. As a resource of recent information it's a bit too confusing thought since this thing has grown into a real monster and with every post you kind of necro-post by resurrecting the old as tail with information that is all over the place.
Why don't you start a thread about tents, marthas and such? It doesn't have to be a TEK at the beginning of it. If I do start a pan mythbuster thread then that would be more like a central thread which opposes the do's and don't which are clearly not as black and white as they seemed and in that spirit it will be more of an identifying obsolete information thread. Having said all this, I had the idea to do this a while ago and now I don't really think that it is necessary anymore since things have changed. Just looked again at what I had started in my journal a good while ago and I have to admit that I am currently lacking the drive to carry on with it, maybe it will never happen........not sure......other things are more important to spend time on at the moment.
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tree frog
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga] 4
#28671709 - 02/22/24 05:07 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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I hear you and as I get more experience with them and have more time I'd be willing to do that.
I think one mindset, I'm not going to call it a myth, is that a pan is a pan is a pan. I.e. cube logic doesn't apply.
We're dealing with species that are closely related but adapted to very different parts of the world. And I'm finding, for example, that the bisporus might like things that are different from the cyans. Even different casing techniques and watering schedules.
But yeah, I'm down. And I'll let it percolate and get feedback from other members of the community and see if they'd like to participate.
Much love Baba! Appreciate all you do.
--------------------

Edited by tree frog (02/23/24 06:17 AM)
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ReverendMyc
succinct is not my forte

Registered: 03/29/19
Posts: 2,015
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: tree frog] 2
#28671789 - 02/22/24 06:28 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Good call tree frog. I only just realized that pan cambo, cyan and bisporus are different related species unlike all the varieties of cubes which are all the same species. They do seem to prefer different conditions and have different growth properties beyond just pheno expression.
-------------------- Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Prepour Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023 Don't Panic   
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blue fruit
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28672613 - 02/23/24 10:49 AM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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What do y'all think, roughly estimated, how many grows of panaeolus cyanescens from spore print in an unmodded monotub "in cubensis conditions" would it take until you find genetics that are fruiting?
a) spore print to grain, uncased b) spore print to grain, cased c) spore print to agar to grain, uncased d) spore print to agar to grain, cased
If that matters, as substrate I'd use 1:1 coco coir:straw by dry weight, as casing pure vermiculite. Each pasteurized. I know it's not ideal, I wanna keep it as simple as possible though.
It's probably very difficult to estimate, but I'd appreciate your ideas.
Edited by blue fruit (02/23/24 10:57 AM)
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Baba Yaga
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: blue fruit] 3
#28672819 - 02/23/24 01:10 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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You will need to produce clean spawn and at least some fruits should pop up.
Having said this I would recommend to stay away from spores to inoculate grain. How is your agar work and pasteurization experience?
If you are just after some clones then one tub should suffice assuming that your spawn and substrate is well done. When I am on the hunt for clones I do either cakes (coir, manure, wholemeal flour) or spawn grain to smaller containers with coir/manure substrate, apply rather poor fruiting conditions and clone the fruits which pop up. This usually produced some forgiving cultures which did well in most situations.
Main thing is clean spawn and healthy substrate.
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blue fruit
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28672951 - 02/23/24 03:21 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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I see, thanks for your help! Good to hear it shouldn't take too many tubs.
Got clean rice spawn and agar plates. I'd pasteurize coco coir, straw and vermiculite in hot water at 180F for 30 minutes.
Do you think using/ not using a pure vermiculite casing layer increases chances for fruiting? Or no difference?
Do you think a ratio of 1:1 coco coir:straw (by dry weight) would make a good substrate? Or might something like 2:1 coco coir:straw (by dry weight) be better?
I know I don't use manure like you are suggesting. Ideally I should get manure, but this is not doable for me in my current situation. I hope you'll point me the right direction still.
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Baba Yaga
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: blue fruit]
#28673129 - 02/23/24 06:34 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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I personally don't like using straw because I find it a pain to work with. So I can't really tell you what ratio is best to use, if there is even a thing like that ......others might be more helpful in this regard.
I have used vermiculite as casing and it does work alright.
180F is too hot, keep it between 140-160F
How was the rice inoculated? Got a photo of the jar/petri dish?
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,438
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28673134 - 02/23/24 06:42 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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Does straw even provide something unique for mushrooms? Everything I've read on it, especially in regards to the gourmet world, was "straw is cheap, straw holds water".
Isn't it mostly used for the economical benefits? If the number one reason for use is holding water then I'd say coir and verm tick those boxes pretty well. I just can't remember hearing about straw being used for anything other than texture, water, and cost.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh wouldβve sold more than one painting if heβd put tigers in them.βBill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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kirkeng
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: elasticaltiger]
#28673157 - 02/23/24 07:00 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
elasticaltiger said: Does straw even provide something unique for mushrooms? Everything I've read on it, especially in regards to the gourmet world, was "straw is cheap, straw holds water".
Isn't it mostly used for the economical benefits? If the number one reason for use is holding water then I'd say coir and verm tick those boxes pretty well. I just can't remember hearing about straw being used for anything other than texture, water, and cost.
Iβm just grasping at βstrawsβ here, but my guess is NPK is what straw is bringing in relative amounts. Again this is just a guess considering folks are having good results amending coir with NPK and other things to get results with pans sans manure or straw.
Based on those experiments from I want to say sleepydave my assumption is the added fertilizers and such traditionally taken from manure is what is beneficial for pans specifically.
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blue fruit
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28673231 - 02/23/24 07:54 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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Thanks y'all!
@Baba Yaga: I'm still planning and aquiring what is needed to grow pans, like a pan cyan spore print, straw etc. The first grows Imma try without casing and see how it works out. If it doesn't fruit, I will try a vermiculite casing.
@elasticaltiger: I got info about straw from there. https://www.shroomery.org/8421/Panaeolus-cyanescens-FAQ#rye It says pans don't fruit well from rye alone, and I assume it's the same with rice. 3 questions down it says that pans grow very well on straw.
@kirkeng: I don't know if NPK is used in mushroom cultivation. A quick search through the forum here, and I read that people discourage from using NPK for shrooms.
Edited by blue fruit (02/23/24 08:04 PM)
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Baba Yaga
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: blue fruit]
#28673246 - 02/23/24 08:06 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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tree frog
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28673628 - 02/24/24 04:37 AM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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@blue fruit I clicked the link and looked at what it said about straw.
I grow Oyster mushrooms on both straw and supplemented sawdust blocks. Straw rarely puts out more than one flush. I pastuerize it properly and Oysters are a super aggressive species that I've seen eat trich. If I want to get more flushes, I would need to supplement it. (People do this, I just haven't bothered as the straw is more of a novelty for me at the moment for bucket fruiting).
And as Baba said above, straw is a pain in the ass to work with. Verm and poo and coir and grains works well. Straw has to be pasteurized anyway. I don't see any benefit to using it outside of economical ones (which is a benefit, don't get me wrong, sometimes straw is just what's available).
I use composted cow manure I buy from home depot (black kow). If that's an option for you, it's much easier to work with and there's a hack in my sig that seems to be making it even easier for not just myself but also others.
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Edited by tree frog (02/24/24 04:48 AM)
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blue fruit
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Re: πππ PANAEOLUS IN MONO TUBS 3.0 πππ [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28673664 - 02/24/24 05:50 AM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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Thanks for the links, that's super interesting. Straw is not needed, just NPK fertilizer. That makes it way easier, no need to deal with straw.
There sleepydave suggests a fertilizer with a 1:1:1 ratio and to add calcium.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28531825#28531825
Added calcium just means the usual amount of gypsum, right?
@kirkeng: Sorry for my ignorance, sleepydave got it to work well with NPK.
@tree frog: Thanks for sharing your experience. I reconsider using straw. First Imma try with a sub made of coco coir, gypsum, and NPK 1:1:1. In the future I might also give it a go with composted manure.
Edited by blue fruit (02/24/24 05:57 AM)
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