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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly] 1
#28697295 - 03/12/24 09:53 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: So my next steps are to record modalities, cross reference vocalisations and reflections to analyse EEG readings and label modalities. Then repeat for observations.
I say go for it  experience/observe/wave away.
I hope to be doing similarly soon enough too. (in due course . )
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: The Blind Ass] 2
#28697418 - 03/12/24 11:21 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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self aware existence precedes self aware essence - but then it goes the other way  physics
sartre reminds us to take in the self first, aristotle jumps over the self
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sudly
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#28699640 - 03/15/24 02:09 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Trying to be open minded as a psychologist might be.
I would almost consider myself like a psychologist.
Either way, being open minded to me is just looking for silver linings, not worrying about the things you can't control and appreciating diverse perspectives for what they are.
I have 150 mineral specimens as a periodic wall of elements that make up most of what we have in our society, from lithium to batteries, arnesic to paint, lead to weaponry, sulfur to explosive power, titanium to metallic strength, to nylon for dexterity and flexibility with elements like thorium and uranium for the secrets of the universe. Y'know. I get to appreciate that and I embody it, at least I'm honest enough with myself, and confident enough to try to.
It's been a full week, maybe now I'll find sometime to look at myself in the mirror a bit more 
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly] 1
#28699654 - 03/15/24 03:30 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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sudly
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: redgreenvines]
#28699656 - 03/15/24 03:42 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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I'm like my own, but I stand on the shoulders of giants. I don't own the idea, I follow it. To give power to distance.
My shadow is the mirror if I give power to distance.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 28,069
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly]
#28699830 - 03/15/24 09:27 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Nice wall , sudz.
Ive a card sized periodic table for the ol wallet. For good measure I keep my driver’s license behind it. It’s cheap but it does the trick.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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sudly
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28700926 - 03/16/24 06:24 AM (3 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: You can only consider anything about what already or potentially exists.
Otherwise, you wouldn't know of it at all.
Neural coherence is cellular, not quantum. Perhaps there is something about microtubules, but none of that points to anything specific, and the word might
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imply that the brain might achieve coherence in a manner analogous to quantum systems reaching coherent states. This coherence in the brain's activity could be what underlies the emergence of organised, structured
What is this analogous manner, specifically? Please explain...
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The statement "Neural coherence is cellular" is nuanced. Neural coherence generally refers to the synchronisation of neural activity across different parts of the brain. This synchronisation is essential for various cognitive functions, enabling different brain regions to communicate effectively.
While it's true that neural coherence involves cellular components, such as neurons and their interactions, the concept extends beyond the cellular level to encompass larger-scale brain networks. Neurons communicate through synapses, and the coherence in their activity is a result of both their individual properties and their network interactions.
So, while cellular activity is a foundational element of neural coherence, the coherence itself is a phenomenon that emerges at a higher level, involving complex interactions among numerous neurons and neural circuits. Therefore, saying "Neural coherence is cellular" captures a part of the truth but overlooks the broader, more integrative aspects of how neural coherence functions in the brain.
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Integrating the concepts of photon momentum, quantum entanglement, angular momentum conservation, and EEG readings into a coherent physical framework presents an innovative approach to understanding cognitive modalities. Here's a deeper dive into how your equation might be conceptually connected to these areas:
Photon Momentum and Angular Momentum: Photons have a momentum given by p= hν/c and can carry angular momentum. This angular momentum is crucial in interactions with matter, like in the Compton effect, where photons transfer part of their momentum to electrons.
Quantum Entanglement and Angular Momentum Conservation: In quantum entanglement, the properties of one particle are instantly correlated with another, irrespective of distance. Angular momentum conservation in this context ensures that changes in one particle's angular momentum are counterbalanced by changes in the other's, maintaining the total angular momentum of the system.
The Expression (hνα)²: This expression, while not standard in physics, combines key elements: the energy of a photon (hν), and the fine-structure constant (α). Squaring this expression could represent the propagation or reinforcement of these quantities in a given system, possibly indicative of a non-linear relationship or interaction in the context of entangled systems or photon-matter interactions.
EEG Readings and Cognitive Modalities: EEG readings reflect the collective electrical activity of the brain's neurons. If there's an underlying quantum mechanical layer to neural processing, potentially involving the principles you've mentioned, it might subtly influence these electrical patterns, correlating with different cognitive states or modalities.
Linking to Cognitive Modalities: The hypothetical model or equation could be proposing a novel quantum mechanical underpinning to neural activity, observable through EEG. The equation (hνα)² might represent a specific quantum mechanical contribution to neural dynamics, perhaps influencing or correlating with cognitive processes at a macroscopic level.
To contextualise this in cognitive science, one would need to identify how such quantum-level phenomena could influence neuronal activity or neural networks in a manner that's detectable or has meaningful consequences at the scale of EEG readings. This connection would be groundbreaking, bridging quantum physics and neuroscience, but it's important to note that such a bridge is speculative and would require empirical evidence to substantiate its validity.
In summary, while the equation and its components are grounded in established physics, their direct application to cognitive modalities and EEG readings is highly theoretical and speculative, representing an intriguing frontier in the intersection of quantum physics and cognitive neuroscience.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
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Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly]
#28700974 - 03/16/24 07:42 AM (3 months, 9 days ago) |
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That was blithering. Got any evidence of emergence? Not yet? Alright!
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆
atissimæ profundæque veritates amandæ sunt, sic ideo necesse est: res maxima amanda est. potus sitis bene scimus cum nos id adeo explet, cum alto hic movet imus: res maxima omnis amor.
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sudly
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28701364 - 03/16/24 01:59 PM (3 months, 9 days ago) |
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It's convoluted for sure, while the mathematical construction is valid, its direct physical significance remains speculative or interpretative.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly]
#28701884 - 03/17/24 01:33 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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I think it's interesting and relevant to the topic, and it reflects some of the thoughts and discussions and experiences I've had throughout the week. A fine dance indeed.
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In the scenario you're describing, it's possible for the constants c (the speed of light) and ℎ (Planck's constant) to remain invariant while the momentum p experiences exponential changes as it approaches the event horizon of a black hole.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/17/24 02:26 AM)
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly]
#28701904 - 03/17/24 03:26 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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that would feel really weird
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sudly
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#28701929 - 03/17/24 04:28 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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It's clear to me that photons can transfer momentum to electrons, and there's nothing controversial about that. A photon, even though it is massless, carries momentum and can transfer momentum to an electron.
This is timely, neat.
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James Webb telescope confirms there is something seriously wrong with our understanding of the universe.
Depending on where we look, the universe is expanding at different rates. Now, scientists using the James Webb and Hubble space telescopes have confirmed that the observation is not down to a measurement error.
https://www.livescience.com/space/cosmology/james-webb-telescope-confirms-there-is-something-seriously-wrong-with-our-understanding-of-the-universe
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (03/17/24 05:22 AM)
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly] 1
#28701971 - 03/17/24 06:13 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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my brain is expanding at different rates after reading that which is very weird
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sudly
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: redgreenvines]
#28702755 - 03/17/24 06:35 PM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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What do you think about the idea of a photon carrying momentum and transferring some of its momentum to an electron?
And different rates of expansion in the universe are puzzling indeed.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 28,069
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly]
#28702768 - 03/17/24 06:44 PM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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what sort of efx would such a transfer lead to for the 'receiving' electrons?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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sudly
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28702816 - 03/17/24 07:30 PM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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The Compton effect.
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Convincing evidence that light is made up of particles (photons), and that photons have momentum, can be seen when a photon with energy hf collides with a stationary electron. Some of the energy and momentum is transferred to the electron (this is known as the Compton effect), but both energy and momentum are conserved in this elastic collision. After the collision the photon has energy hf/ and the electron has acquired a kinetic energy K.
https://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/semester2/c35_compton.html#:~:text=Some%20of%20the%20energy%20and,acquired%20a%20kinetic%20energy%20K.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 28,069
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly]
#28702823 - 03/17/24 07:39 PM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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Interesting, that's nearish to how I imagined it.
Do you know if they're only offloading momentum unto susceptible electrons?
sry, only *energy~momentum.
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sudly
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#28702849 - 03/17/24 08:03 PM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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Valence electrons I think,
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As given by Compton, the explanation of the Compton shift is that in the target material, graphite, valence electrons are loosely bound in the atoms and behave like free electrons. Compton assumed that the incident X-ray radiation is a stream of photons. An incoming photon in this stream collides with a valence electron in the graphite target. In the course of this collision, the incoming photon transfers some part of its energy and momentum to the target electron and leaves the scene as a scattered photon. This model explains in qualitative terms why the scattered radiation has a longer wavelength than the incident radiation. Put simply, a photon that has lost some of its energy emerges as a photon with a lower frequency, or equivalently, with a longer wavelength.
Although inner electrons aren't ruled out,
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The nonshifted peak shown in Figure 6.4.1 is due to photon collisions with tightly bound inner electrons in the target material. Photons that collide with the inner electrons of the target atoms in fact collide with the entire atom. In this extreme case, the rest mass in Equation 6.4.13 must be changed to the rest mass of the atom. This type of shift is four orders of magnitude smaller than the shift caused by collisions with electrons and is so small that it can be neglected.
https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/University_Physics/University_Physics_(OpenStax)/University_Physics_III_-_Optics_and_Modern_Physics_(OpenStax)/06%3A_Photons_and_Matter_Waves/6.04%3A_The_Compton_Effect
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Compton scattering is the process whereby photons gain or lose energy from collisions with electrons.
So the inverse of compton scattering would be energy gain for a photon, which are just interesting ideas imo.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly]
#28702916 - 03/17/24 09:10 PM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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I had no idea that electrons were stationary, I thought they were electrically bound to move in orbitals or moving in electric currents. I would imagine that a photon's momentum would accelerate an electron to a higher orbital, or free it from an atom to become electric current, as in solar energy. I thought that electrons and photons were so similar, that they could change roles, I mean, in solar energy, the solar cell does not become consumed, so the light must become electricity:
the electron gets shifted to a higher orbital and the photon takes its place and then the electron runs freely as current.
no?
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: redgreenvines]
#28703237 - 03/18/24 08:55 AM (3 months, 7 days ago) |
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-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆
atissimæ profundæque veritates amandæ sunt, sic ideo necesse est: res maxima amanda est. potus sitis bene scimus cum nos id adeo explet, cum alto hic movet imus: res maxima omnis amor.
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