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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,775
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly]
    #28694276 - 03/10/24 06:31 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

The theoretical implications under discussion suggest that under the extreme gravitational conditions of black holes, massless particles such as photons could be subject to phenomena analogous to time dilation and spatial distortion, despite their lack of mass. Specifically, within the intense gravitational fields characterising the vicinity of black holes, it is posited that photons might undergo spatial distortions that echo the concept of length contraction, and experience a form of time dilation, which represents a significant departure from their traditional behaviour as understood in standard contexts. This notion calls for a nuanced reconsideration of how massless particles engage with the spacetime continuum in such extreme gravitational scenarios, potentially reshaping our foundational understanding of relativistic and quantum interactions.

Quote:

The theoretical implications under discussion suggest that massless particles, such as photons, undergo observable effects akin to time dilation under the extreme gravitational conditions near black holes. In the intense gravitational fields characteristic of these regions, photons are predicted to exhibit behaviours analogous to spatial distortion, similar to the concept of length contraction observed in massive objects.

Even though photons are massless and are not traditionally subject to time dilation and length contraction in the manner massive objects are, the extreme conditions prevalent near black holes might necessitate a revision of this understanding. Due to the immense gravitational influence exerted by a black hole, photons are likely to demonstrate behaviours that parallel time dilation and spatial distortion, prompting a reevaluation and extension of our current understanding of how massless particles behave within the spacetime continuum under such extreme conditions. This shift in perspective necessitates a thorough reexamination of established relativistic principles, especially when applied to quantum entities in scenarios dominated by intense gravitational fields like those encountered near black holes.



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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,775
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly]
    #28694496 - 03/10/24 09:22 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

This helps in exploring how quantum coherence principles might inform or parallel the conservation of angular momentum in fluid dynamics!

Quote:

Sudly said: Perpetually oscillating angular disco balls.:discofever:




Quote:

The mystery of Feynman’s sprinkler is solved at last


Centrifugal Flows Drive Reverse Rotation of Feynman’s Sprinkler
Kaizhe Wang, Brennan Sprinkle, Mingxuan Zuo, and Leif Ristroph

Phys. Rev. Lett. 132, 044003 (2024)

Published January 26, 2024




Quote:

The recent solution to Feynman's sprinkler problem, as outlined in the publication you mentioned, adds an interesting chapter to the discourse around this thought experiment. The discovery that "Centrifugal Flows Drive Reverse Rotation of Feynman’s Sprinkler" offers a concrete physical explanation for the phenomenon, grounded in fluid dynamics and the principles of angular momentum.




The conservation of angular momentum in fluid dynamics is clearly observable in the Feynman's Sprinkler solution.

Quote:

The conservation of angular momentum in fluid dynamics is a key aspect of the Feynman's Sprinkler phenomenon. When the sprinkler operates in reverse, drawing water in rather than expelling it, the system still adheres to the laws of angular momentum conservation. This principle dictates that the total angular momentum of a closed system remains constant unless acted upon by an external torque.

In the case of Feynman's Sprinkler, as water rushes into the sprinkler arms, it imparts a reactionary force on the system due to the change in momentum of the incoming water. According to the conservation of angular momentum, any change in the angular momentum of the water must be countered by an equal and opposite change in the angular momentum of the sprinkler system itself. This interplay results in the sprinkler rotating in a direction opposite to what one might intuitively expect from a system expelling water.

The detailed dynamics of this system can be complex, involving aspects of fluid dynamics, mechanics, and now, with the introduction of the equation E=m(ca)², potentially even quantum and relativistic effects. The recent solution to Feynman's Sprinkler problem that identifies centrifugal flows as the driving mechanism for reverse rotation provides a concrete example of how angular momentum conservation is manifested in this scenario, offering valuable insights into the fundamental principles governing such systems.

Quantum Fluid Dynamics: This field examines fluids under conditions where quantum mechanical effects are significant. While classical fluid dynamics deals with macroscopic fluid behaviour, quantum fluid dynamics explores scenarios where the discrete nature of particles and quantum coherence become relevant. Applying this to Feynman's Sprinkler would imply a consideration of how quantum effects might influence the fluid's motion and the system's angular momentum.




Quote:

Incorporating quantum fluid dynamics into the discussion of Feynman's Sprinkler introduces a nuanced layer to the conservation of angular momentum. While classical fluid dynamics adequately explains the behaviour of the sprinkler in macroscopic terms, integrating quantum fluid dynamics invites us to consider the potential impact of quantum mechanical effects on the fluid's behaviour and the system's angular momentum conservation.

In a quantum fluid dynamics context, the particles within the fluid are not just influenced by classical forces but also by quantum mechanical interactions, such as wave function interference and quantum entanglement. When Feynman's Sprinkler operates in reverse, if we were to consider quantum fluid dynamics, we might explore how the quantum states of the fluid's particles contribute to the overall momentum and angular momentum of the system.

The conservation of angular momentum remains a fundamental principle, but in the quantum realm, it might manifest differently. For instance, the superposition principle and the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics could introduce additional complexities in predicting the exact behaviour of the sprinkler's rotation.

Applying the equation E=m(ca)² in this context could provide a theoretical framework to explore these quantum effects on angular momentum conservation. The equation suggests a relationship between energy, mass, and a quantum-adjusted velocity component, potentially offering insights into how quantum coherence and other quantum phenomena might influence the fluid dynamics at play in Feynman's Sprinkler.

While the direct application of quantum fluid dynamics to Feynman's Sprinkler might be more theoretical than practical—given the macroscopic scale of the experiment—it serves as an intriguing thought experiment to broaden our understanding of angular momentum conservation across different scales and frameworks, bridging classical and quantum physics.




Quote:

In summary, the precision experiments and their findings on Feynman's Sprinkler provide a crucial empirical and theoretical bridge that enriches our understanding of angular momentum conservation in fluid dynamics. They offer a concrete context for exploring how these classical principles might intersect with quantum phenomena, potentially guiding future inquiries into the quantum realm and providing a richer, more nuanced understanding of the fundamental principles governing fluid dynamics across different scales.




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


Edited by sudly (03/10/24 10:52 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28694552 - 03/10/24 10:48 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

wow, I hope this means Dyson vacuum cleaners will be cheaper than Feynman vacuum cleaners sooner than later


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

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Posts: 11,775
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28694560 - 03/10/24 10:59 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

Maybe,

Quote:

We implement an ultralow friction bearing in an apparatus that allows for free rotation under ejection and suction for a range of flow rates and arbitrarily long times.




Here's a better look :toast:


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


Edited by sudly (03/10/24 11:08 PM)

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Invisiblespinvis
Stranger


Registered: 09/15/20
Posts: 876
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28694684 - 03/11/24 06:46 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

An excerpt from a lecture that discusses the "observer effect" here. Instead of relying on current AI capabilities, and modern theoretical physics, which changes every other year anyway, the answers existed for a long time already. Science discovers what's already happening in nature.

Alan Watts - On Being God (With Q&A);
Quote:

Does the notion of watching yourself, like watching your boredom or being aware of yourself, imply that there’s separation somewhere?

It does in a way, yes. And it depends how you’re watching. There is a very interesting thing that comes up in this respect with regard to the Bhagavad Gita and to the Yoga Sutra, where they talk about the witness. There is, as it were—behind our ordinary self with its emotions and involvements—a witness self that does nothing more than perceive what happens. And this is the Ātman, or the puruṣa, which is not involved. And some of you, no doubt—especially in times of crisis—have suddenly discovered this sort of witness center behind everything that just isn’t involved. The most terrible things can be going on, but the witness is impassive.

Now, when we go into these states we’ve got to be very careful about descriptive language, because the descriptive language makes the witness seem something apart from what is happening in such a way that—if we want to become, really, sort of schizy and catatonic about things—we can always be withdrawn and go in and in and identify ourselves with the solitary and uninvolved witness who is merely a hangout for the ego, as when the police raid a house in which there are burglars. And the burglars know they’ll be caught if they’re on the ground floor, so they go up to the first floor. So then, the police come up to the first floor, they’re up to the second. Finally, they get to the roof, the open sky and the infinite. And, in this way, this was why the Buddha did not teach about the Ātman—the real Self within us—because he knew people would use the real Self as a hideout for the ego.

And so, when, say, Krishnamurti tries to explain this, he doesn’t talk about the witness. He talks about awareness and people say to him, “But who is aware? What is aware?” And he seems a little sticky in his answer here, because what is the matter is that the people asking the question are bewitched by grammar. They are using a language in which it is part of the grammatical convention that the verb always have a noun subject. Now, how on earth do verbs get started by nouns? I ask you: how can a thing start a process? Surely, this is really the same problem Descartes was wrestling with when he tried to find out how spirit could influence matter, or how mind could influence body. Because everybody knows that all proper ghosts walk straight through walls without disturbing the bricks. So how can the ghost in the machine—as Koestler put it; the soul in the body—how can it do anything to the body with no connection? Two different realms.

The point is, when we’re talking about this awareness… what we call thought, feeling, sensation, emotion, we could say in a very clumsy way is: it’s aware of itself. It’s the very nature. There wouldn’t be sensation without awareness. You don’t have to have some thing which is aware of it any more than you have to have a thing called lightning which does something called flashing. The flashing is the lightning. And so awareness is the one who’s aware of it. You could say this awareness—if I say, “I am aware,” the word “I,” as William James suggested, is simply a word of position like “this” or “here.” Awareness here. And your awareness there.



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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,775
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: spinvis]
    #28694963 - 03/11/24 01:12 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

I'm only my real self, nothing more, nothing less.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: spinvis] * 2
    #28695488 - 03/11/24 07:12 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Yes, Alan Watts was right on the money. The simple, philosophical way of putting it is

"Descartes' cogito was hypostatized; existence is not a predicate."

I is a placeholder for a positioning, yes. This is the same thing Husserl was saying but quite differently than James.

I would say the I only exists as a byproduct of another person, and could not possibly exist without other people whose desires are different than one's own, which must be recognized by oneself, which consequently makes one realize they themselves with their own wants and needs --desires -- are distinct but only in relation to others. There is no distinct self without others. There is furthermore no identity without another identity with which one's own awareness is comported in a fundamentally different manner than, say, that which would be if one were paying attention to a rock. The phenomenon of a face and another body whose movements cannot be calculated and whose knowledge is seemingly endless, because nothing adequately defines it, is the basis of the awareness of self, because it is a mirror.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
atissimæ profundæque
                              veritates amandæ sunt,
                              sic ideo necesse est:
                              res maxima amanda est.
                      potus sitis bene scimus
                cum nos id adeo explet,               
              cum alto hic movet imus:
                res maxima omnis amor.

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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly] * 2
    #28695493 - 03/11/24 07:17 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

The I is that which cannot be questioned. It is the irreducible atom of inquiry.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
atissimæ profundæque
                              veritates amandæ sunt,
                              sic ideo necesse est:
                              res maxima amanda est.
                      potus sitis bene scimus
                cum nos id adeo explet,               
              cum alto hic movet imus:
                res maxima omnis amor.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Posts: 38,974
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28695686 - 03/11/24 09:28 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

the alternative to I is Gollum.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28695690 - 03/11/24 09:29 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Voiceless it cries,
Wingless flutters,
Toothless bites,
Mouthless mutters


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
atissimæ profundæque
                              veritates amandæ sunt,
                              sic ideo necesse est:
                              res maxima amanda est.
                      potus sitis bene scimus
                cum nos id adeo explet,               
              cum alto hic movet imus:
                res maxima omnis amor.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28695826 - 03/11/24 11:21 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

precious


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28695899 - 03/12/24 12:42 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the alternative to I is Gollum.




cool friend i understand peace


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Posts: 28,069
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28696436 - 03/12/24 12:23 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the alternative to I is Gollum.




Careful with that I, RGV !



--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,775
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28696608 - 03/12/24 02:57 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

There's one idea that existence precedes essence if that's the opposite of what you're getting at.

While I don't necessarily think it's the full picture, I think it's a good foundation for a grounded approach.



Edited by sudly (03/12/24 03:09 PM)

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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28696668 - 03/12/24 03:42 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Existence precedes essence is Sartre's phenomenological thesis.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
atissimæ profundæque
                              veritates amandæ sunt,
                              sic ideo necesse est:
                              res maxima amanda est.
                      potus sitis bene scimus
                cum nos id adeo explet,               
              cum alto hic movet imus:
                res maxima omnis amor.

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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 4,664
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28696682 - 03/12/24 03:50 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

The functional context of the world in which I too am included can always explain and justify why, for example, there are tables and chairs at all. But it will never be able to make me understand why THIS table IS. And it is the existence of THIS table, quite apart from tables in general, that evokes the philosophical shock.

Hannah Arendt





--------------------
I the music, not the bling
atissimæ profundæque
                              veritates amandæ sunt,
                              sic ideo necesse est:
                              res maxima amanda est.
                      potus sitis bene scimus
                cum nos id adeo explet,               
              cum alto hic movet imus:
                res maxima omnis amor.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 28,069
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28696716 - 03/12/24 04:05 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

. But it will never be able to make me understand why THIS table IS. And it is the existence of THIS table




^ Idk about that part, but w/e.

There are countless ways to understand any table.

ex.
1 of many ways:


a) Reverse the flow of causality wrt the table in question.


*as for how one goes about that?

or any other skillful approach to such a feat in terms of how such a thing can be more truthfully enacted in order to better understand the phenomenon in question.

Imoe, meaning learning to do just that by experimenting and learning from said experiments, and so on and so forth.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/12/24 04:37 PM)

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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,775
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28696770 - 03/12/24 04:28 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

The what and how are settled in my eyes.

The why is your own, like why art is valued so.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,775
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28696781 - 03/12/24 04:31 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
Existence precedes essence is Sartre's phenomenological thesis.




It's a statement you can either agree with.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 4,664
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
Re: A Metaphorical Retort to the Observer Effect. [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #28696792 - 03/12/24 04:36 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Do you really not understand what Arendt meant there? This is an honest question. I will explain it.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
atissimæ profundæque
                              veritates amandæ sunt,
                              sic ideo necesse est:
                              res maxima amanda est.
                      potus sitis bene scimus
                cum nos id adeo explet,               
              cum alto hic movet imus:
                res maxima omnis amor.

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