Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Chaos: Friend or Foe? * 3
    #28664677 - 02/17/24 09:25 PM (4 months, 6 days ago)

I've been so intrigued with the word "Chaos" recently. And how in ancient Greek mythology, Chaos was the empty void from which were born the fundamental layers of reality, including: Gaia (Earth), Tartarus (the Underworld), Nyx (Night), and Erebus (Darkness).

But how in modern usage, chaos means: "complete disorder and confusion." And carries a connotation of something unpleasant, unwanted, and to be prevented at all costs - associated with riots, bedlam, insanity, destruction. E.g. "we can't let that happen, because it would result in utter chaos."

Could this be indicative of an essential aspect of the modern world's "shadow" from a Jungian perspective? In other words, maybe we've lost touch with (and striven to repress/block) the natural tendency of all things to cyclically unravel back into Chaos (the VOid), before emerging again in a fresh state of newness and creativity, Reborn. As those of us psychedelic voyagers are familiar with and grateful for.

What do you think? What does "Chaos" mean to YOU? Is it frightening? Is it alluring? Is it... "chaotic"?

:spiralflip:


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist
Male Unread Journal User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 12,909
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 2
    #28664817 - 02/18/24 12:45 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Personally, I feel like chaos is necessary because it causes people to adapt and become innovative. To be prepared for the unexpected.

Chaos is necessary. Otherwise we’re led to stagnation.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblethemarsdude
Stranger
I'm a teapot

Registered: 07/29/23
Posts: 9
Loc: mars
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 1
    #28664826 - 02/18/24 01:06 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

i like to see chaos as undefined and unembodied energy. pure anima. the feminine archetypes. shakti. it holds unimaginable potential, ready to be harvested, existing because it is delighted to exist, to see what happens, waiting to see it all unfold. atoms without a plan. everything existing at the most fundamental level of energetics is chaos. we have order at the oppposite. the assembly of atoms into an objective Thing. metal, a planet, a tree. animus. masculine archetypes. shiva. things make, things break, and things make again. it's a cycle. death and rebirth. kind of like thermodynamics in that sense.
i think the industrial west paradigm is centred on order as a constant which is why any change to that order is seen as a threat in a negative lens.
to me, thought, chaos is special. i love seeing things broken down, it give me the onus to harvest them and reconstitute them. it sort of takes away from the binary coding of the human brains, to see everything as good or bad or pleasure or pain. its confusing and beautiful.


--------------------
"Babumushoi, zindagi badi honi chahiye … lambi nahin." - Anand (1971)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,550
Last seen: 2 hours, 10 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: themarsdude] * 3
    #28664840 - 02/18/24 01:50 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Order is created out of chaos..

Like a vent.. or envelope.. containing energy. Message.. receiver.. hub modem

Salient silent sent link..

Information in dots (atoms) @ums..

Atomic science..

Movement regardless of control..

Control over every system is impossible because some plateaus are free to go..moving parts energy cycle. Great breath of God! Fire flame pyrotechnics.


Pyroclasm..  Magic the gathering..

Sent and return to sender 27th rite of pinging to gain information..

From an information spray array.. Light..  highlights things..

Void is pure blackness..

Emptiness nothing.

Green carnivale! Excellent seeker and Sprockets and a loaded engine.

Gasoline fight et Zoolander.

Carnation milk..

Sometimes chaos can't be avoided..sometimes chaos is necessary.

But why do we wait for order or return?

Why aren't things the way we want them?

Selective nutrients.. where something belongs..

Honestly let's sort through the chaos..

Put things back where they belong.

Light is latent with inertia turning black at the beginning and white at the end.*

Entryway light. The beginning is an extension of the past.

Stacked as high as possible is the inertia. Thermodynamics.. choice is good or bad.. tendencies toward chaos vs order.

We fight and are divided here.

I love hierarchy and the Heavenly order of all things.

Everything in motion.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblespinvis
Stranger

Registered: 09/15/20
Posts: 876
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: BrendanFlock] * 3
    #28664916 - 02/18/24 05:38 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Another way of talking about the web is that there are different levels of magnification. For example, supposing you take a piece of embroidery. And here it is, obviously, in front of you: an ordered and beautiful object. And then you take out a microscope, and you look at the individual threads. At a certain point, as you turn up the microscope, you’ll get a hopeless tangle which doesn’t make any sense at all. The wrapped fiber that constitutes the thread is a mess. Hasn’t been organized, nobody did anything about it. But at the level of magnification at which you actually see it with the naked eye, it’s all been organized.

Alright, now keep turning up that microscope. Take one of those individual threads in the fiber that seems to be so chaotic, and go into the constitution of that. And again, you’ll find fantastic order. You’ll find the most gorgeous designs of molecules. Then, keep turning it up. And again, at a certain level you’ll find chaos again. Alright, keep going. And at another level you’ll find there’s marvelous order.

Now, you see, order and randomness constitute—in other words—the warp and the woof. Where everything is—in order, everything’s under control; in randomness, it’s all over—it’s a mess. But we wouldn’t know what order was unless we had messes. It’s the contrast of order and messes that order itself depends upon. And so in exactly the same way, it is the contrast of on and off, there and not there—in other words, life and death, being and non-being—that constitutes existence. Only, we pretend that the random side of things, the disorderly side of things, could possibly win in the game of competition—or, I would rather call it collaboration—between the two.

When you lose sight of the fact that the order-principle and the random-principle go together, that’s exactly the same predicament as losing sight of the fact that all individually delineated things and beings are connected underneath.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,213
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: spinvis] * 3
    #28664956 - 02/18/24 06:30 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

I had not looked at or recalled the etymology. Good call. It should be added it to that thread.

Quote:

chaos (n.)

late 14c., "gaping void; empty, immeasurable space," from Old French chaos (14c.) or directly from Latin chaos, from Greek khaos "abyss, that which gapes wide open, that which is vast and empty" (from *khnwos, from PIE root *ghieh- "to yawn, gape, be wide open").

The meaning "utter confusion" (c. 1600) is an extended sense from theological use of chaos in the Vulgate version of "Genesis" (1530s in English) for "the void at the beginning of creation, the confused, formless, elementary state of the universe." The Greek for "disorder" was tarakhē, but the use of chaos here was rooted in Hesiod ("Theogony"), who describes khaos as the primeval emptiness of the Universe, and in Ovid ("Metamorphoses"), who opposes Khaos to Kosmos, "the ordered Universe." Sometimes it was personified as a god, begetter of Erebus and Nyx ("Night").

Meaning "orderless confusion" in human affairs is from c. 1600. Chaos theory in the modern mathematical sense is attested from c. 1977.




If not associated with meditative experience in that respect then it can seem a bit spooky perhaps because of stranger personalities promoting by that name. IIRC there is some association with sigil work among other things which can be presented in ways that may be regarded taboo.

Black magic is considered spiritual intent for oneself for selfish or harming purposes, or even regardless, the confusing Theosophical view of black magic being anything for self as opposed to other at all.

Chaos magic seems kind of an epitome in reputation of doing things your own way for your own desire. It's funny because in the yogic sadhanas, there is intention declared and the standard is 'for the sake of my desires.' This may be better understood in eastern approaches of processing out or enlightening desire, yet also is about fulfilling them which in essence is the same.

An included intent toward fulfilling desires in a way with wisdom imo is that typical desires are not fulfilled on their level, but in pure natures.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleconnectedcosmos
Neti Neti
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,695
Loc: The Pathless Path
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: syncro] * 2
    #28665016 - 02/18/24 07:20 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Chaos might be order - depends who you ask and where they see from - friend or foe? Again depends who you ask and where they see from :yinyang: :tongue2:


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: connectedcosmos] * 2
    #28665130 - 02/18/24 08:37 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Wow so many great responses, thank you! Where to start... maybe a little summary:

Themes of Chaos vs. Order (or Chaos vs. Cosmos! nice find Syncro). But both depend on the other. And either might be interchanged with the other, depending on whose perspective you take (or what level of magnification). Thermodynamics was mentioned a couple times. Chaos theory - but is chaos theory truly about chaos, or about finding order in seeming chaos and great complexities? (I honestly don't know, I haven't studied the matter).

And then a paradox - the western industrial order is centered on order, but on the other hand, chaos is necessary for innovation - something Americans pride themselves on. Maybe America's successes are owed to a healthy balance between chaos and order? That could be a thorny debate, lol.

Chaos magic - nice reference! I am only superficially knowledgeable about this topic. Makes sense to appeal to the Void/primordial energy to manifest. But there does seem to be an inherent tension in this philosophy. Can one truly use chaos and bend it to their intent/will/desire? Or will the trickster archetype come into play and preserve the truer, unpredictable nature of Chaos? I.e. "be careful what you wish for," and also see motifs in stories about genies/jinns. Aladdin tricked Jafar, after all.

From BrendanFlock's poem, I select one phrase because it is quite beautiful: "entryway light." I see it.That moment when someone on the other side opens a door, and light comes flooding in through the aperture. Interesting though that chaos is associated with black, dark, night, absence of light. The Dark Mother. What is on the other side of the Black Hole?


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,213
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 2
    #28665173 - 02/18/24 09:14 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

The light, a circle. :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: syncro]
    #28666539 - 02/19/24 08:45 AM (4 months, 4 days ago)

Decided to look more into chaos theory, found a pretty good documentary (see below). Very psychedelic in concept. All about the spontaneous emergence of patterns, the inherent unpredictability of phenomena, fractal geometry and feedback loops.

si=zB0inV1fwXlw7Q1J


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,213
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 1
    #28666566 - 02/19/24 09:06 AM (4 months, 4 days ago)

I received this book as a gift so long ago. © 1992 A favorite.



Mandelbrot, Mandelbrot!


Edited by syncro (02/19/24 09:10 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,213
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28666590 - 02/19/24 09:19 AM (4 months, 4 days ago)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: syncro]
    #28666650 - 02/19/24 10:01 AM (4 months, 4 days ago)

Lol! Yes Mandelbrot is the man. Apparently quite uneducated and he intuitively came to observation of/realization of fractals in nature.


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,047
Last seen: 16 days, 2 hours
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 3
    #28666687 - 02/19/24 10:57 AM (4 months, 4 days ago)

appearing disappearing makes up the flow

thought imagines static objects

when belief in stasis meets flow, we can fight it or go with it (be gone with it)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,213
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: Freedom]
    #28666848 - 02/19/24 12:38 PM (4 months, 4 days ago)

Agreed, but what of the world of forms? A point, line segment; ideas can have an unchanging sense, plus general laws seem not to change, if mathematical, because they would be included in that world. 1 is always 1. I suppose a Mandelbrot set of same iteration is always the same.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleTriskelope
Creating
Female


Registered: 01/07/24
Posts: 110
Loc: In my head
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28667214 - 02/19/24 05:30 PM (4 months, 4 days ago)

I think of Eris, and this book Principia Discordia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 978
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: Triskelope]
    #28667271 - 02/19/24 06:24 PM (4 months, 4 days ago)

Very interesting. Did some link hopping from there... and there's a connection between the authors and Lee Harvey Oswald and the JFK assassination? Bizarre!


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,213
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28669293 - 02/21/24 08:05 AM (4 months, 2 days ago)

I don't remember who posted this or where, but I saved it in a text file from a few years ago. I don't know of its accuracy.

Quote:

...or is it singularity!

Have a history teacher explain this if they can.
Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.
Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.
Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
Both wives lost a child while living in the White House.
Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
Both Presidents were shot in the head.
Now it gets really weird.
Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's Secretary was named Lincoln.
Both were assassinated by Southerners.
Both were succeeded by Southerners named Johnson.
Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.
John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.
Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names are composed of fifteen letters.
Now hang on to your seat.
Lincoln was shot at the theater named "Ford."
Kennedy was shot in a car called "Lincoln" made by "Ford."
Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.
And here's the "kicker":
A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.
A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with Marilyn Monroe.
AND...................:
Lincoln was shot in a theater and the assassin ran to a warehouse...
Kennedy was shot from a warehouse and the assassin ran to a theater...

I seen this somewhere else and had to share it.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,550
Last seen: 2 hours, 10 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: syncro]
    #28670236 - 02/21/24 07:06 PM (4 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
I don't remember who posted this or where, but I saved it in a text file from a few years ago. I don't know of its accuracy.

Quote:

...or is it singularity!

Have a history teacher explain this if they can.
Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.
Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.
Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
Both wives lost a child while living in the White House.
Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
Both Presidents were shot in the head.
Now it gets really weird.
Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's Secretary was named Lincoln.
Both were assassinated by Southerners.
Both were succeeded by Southerners named Johnson.
Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.
John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.
Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names are composed of fifteen letters.
Now hang on to your seat.
Lincoln was shot at the theater named "Ford."
Kennedy was shot in a car called "Lincoln" made by "Ford."
Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.
And here's the "kicker":
A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.
A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with Marilyn Monroe.
AND...................:
Lincoln was shot in a theater and the assassin ran to a warehouse...
Kennedy was shot from a warehouse and the assassin ran to a theater...

I seen this somewhere else and had to share it.






The only way I see that these were planned coincidences is if an immortal was secretly pulling the strings..and arranged it 100 years later..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,213
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
Re: Chaos: Friend or Foe? [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #28670791 - 02/22/24 03:50 AM (4 months, 1 day ago)

There's a fantasy book series and I don't remember the title, about a race of otherwise normal people who are essentially immortal or live for a very long time, and are tasked with influencing human events in power such as being sure that someone gets together with someone else to effect births in future generations where a particular progeny is meant to attain power in the struggles between good and bad ...

It's not specified in the Terry Brooks Shannara novels, but I've thought the Druids perhaps with the timeless fairy creatures, or the influence of the Word, must work to influence the evolution and manifestion of the elven magic in the generations of Ohmsford kids, etc. to counteract the shadow powers' like evolution and manifestions.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Heaven is coming to earth *the sequel*
( 1 2 3 4 ... 51 52 )
zorbman 178,766 1,020 03/15/18 06:53 PM
by BrendanFlock
* Could Siddhārtha Gautama ( Budda) have been a Magic Mushroom Eater?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Vitalux 9,780 136 11/02/14 01:38 PM
by endogenous
* Dream Thread
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 )
ShroomismM 49,649 254 05/24/24 03:39 AM
by Buster_Brown
* Greatest Spiritual Quotes?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 121 122 )
Chronic7 237,371 2,428 06/24/24 11:36 AM
by spinvis
* Gre3tings Earthl1ngs
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Heru_sa_Aset 20,771 107 05/12/09 12:23 PM
by heimiasali
* What religion are you?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
undecided 23,364 122 12/25/22 07:38 PM
by LogicaL Chaos
* SATAN
( 1 2 all )
LunarEclipse 4,355 33 10/14/05 12:29 PM
by goobler
* Breaking up my weed, I remembered a dream. MOTH 1,552 10 11/04/05 09:48 PM
by VirgilKane

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, DividedQuantum
423 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.021 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.