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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28664790 - 02/17/24 11:46 PM (4 months, 6 days ago)

That's in my top ten most viewed AI images on my art gallery.



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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
    #28665179 - 02/18/24 09:18 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

For a person to declare they feel like the opposite sex without knowing what that feels like is just ludicrous.




It's as bizarre as a white man claiming to "feel" like a black man.


Quote:

Freedom said:

Imagine a large amount of people, almost everywhere you went, despised, were disgusted by you




Like those people who wear the red hats . . .

So called "compassionate" folks love to hate them

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28665262 - 02/18/24 10:01 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

so is just my friends imagination that after they started dressing like a woman, they received more hate?

this thread seems full of deflection from the question. the question is why is there so much hate towards trans people, and the answers include oh but trans people hate too, or people hate people with red hats too, or even what looks like a completely made up idea that people who transition regret it to a large degree


why is this such a hard question to focus on? if you think that there isn't a lot of hate directed at trans people, thats a pretty easy thing to just directly state.

Looking at the answers, I'd say there is something that gets under the skin of responders, and thats why you are unable to make direct answers to the question.

I'm guessing that the existence of trans people feels threatening to you, or your identity.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
    #28665387 - 02/18/24 11:44 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Why are you asking us about the motivation of others? How is it deflection to not be able to mind read?

Yes, some people are hateful some of the time. Is this news?

Do you love everyone and everything all the time? Why or why not?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
    #28665401 - 02/18/24 11:54 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

or even what looks like a completely made up idea that people who transition regret it to a large degree




It is hard to believe the numbers for or against, but to call it made up is denial. Jazz Jennings, probably the second most famous trans person after Jenner, who made millions as a TV personality, has total regret. And yet you seemingly have no interest in understanding why despite your fascination with this subject.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #28665403 - 02/18/24 11:57 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

I was impacted hearing my friend share their story. They were just sitting on a bus minding their own business. And they shared also how after they came out they have been assaulted often, verbally and sometimes physically, and how they live in fear.

I don't understand why someone would do that based on someone else's experience, and I'm curious.


I don't see this as random hate. Its not news to me that people hate. I don't understand why people hate.

I'm not sure about everything, I think I love everyone. Not all the time. Why? Because I think they experience pain and suffering just like I do, and there is a natural desire for them to be happy.


If I had asked the question "why do some people torture animals for fun?" would you have deflected about how some animals bite, and said something like most animals are killed by other animals?

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #28665410 - 02/18/24 12:00 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

or even what looks like a completely made up idea that people who transition regret it to a large degree




It is hard to believe the numbers for or against, but to call it made up is denial. Jazz Jennings, probably the second most famous trans person after Jenner, who made millions as a TV personality, has total regret. And yet you seemingly have no interest in understanding why despite your fascination with this subject.





look up the studies on pub med about decision regret if you want. I did.

I don't even know who the kardashians are, even though I've heard that they are famous and people don't like them.

I could probably find a famous example of any perspective, that doesn't mean its representative.

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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
    #28665421 - 02/18/24 12:06 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
so its just my friends imagination that after they started dressing like a woman, they received more hate?




When someone does something, anything, that makes them stand out against the norm, there will be both positive and negative attention received.  That concept seems pretty simple

I know a good number of people that haven't bought into the trans agenda (like you clearly have) but not one of them hates or disrespects them.  Most feel they have a something in their mind that causes them to feel that way and at no time in human history have we fixed a problem of the mind by operating on the body.  This is clearly the case with plastic surgery as everyone knows that pumping up your tits doesn't make a woman feel whole or attractive, that feeling has to come from inside, not from dudes looking at you more because you're tits are unnaturally large. However, when we started talking about cutting and pasting private parts, it was not ok to discuss it or question it.  It'd be like taking your car in because the engine isn't firing properly and the mechanic says "let's just change out a few body parts and you'll be ok".  Can people on the other side admit that it seems a little odd to treat a mental condition with upwards of $1,000,000 worth of hormones and surgery? Probably not but that's how it goes.  Where financial incentive lies, there will be greed and corruption

Doctors, psychiatrists, and anyone else qualified to have intelligent discussions about the matter have been silenced and/or fired for asking questions in an attempt to find out if we are in fact tackling this problem from the wrong angle and really that's the only thing I need to know to fully understand that there is something sinister going on here.  When conversation is stifled there can be no understanding and I believe that one side KNOWS they don't have any reasonable or scientific reason for feeling the way they do so they react in overly emotional ways and use all the twisted verbiage they've heard in an effort to shut down conversation without actually answering a goddamn thing

Maybe you aren't getting a good answer to "why is there so much transgender hate?" because inside the question lies the supposition that there is a lot of transgender hate. Trying to understand someone and asking questions isn't a sign of hate, it's a sign of compassion and desire to understand, but from what I've seen, trans advocates really don't like being asked questions about it.

Let's look at some things happening due to giving into trans peoples' agenda:
-Mixed sex prisons where female inmates are turning up pregnant due to fucking trans "women".  Should we force abortion or force them to carry it? If we make them keep it, what do we do with the kid?
-Speaking of prisons, our tax dollars pay for inmates sex change operations and that is just wrong
-Grown men now have the right to expose themselves to young girls in what used to be safe spaces like bathrooms, locker rooms and dressing rooms.  Girls should be allowed to feel comfortable and shouldn't have to expose themselves to or be exposed to someone they don't wish to.  A policy that allows a person an easy opening to young women in vulnerable situations is rife for a predator to pretend they are where they belong.  Quite a few rapes have been reported by high school girls that have happened on school grounds by a male who claims to be trans and oddly enough, the schools are doing everything they can to keep this quiet
-Girls are forced to compete with bio males that wouldn't have a chance if they were competing against other males which negates the hard work of female athletes. 
-In some parts of the world, it's a crime to not acknowledge someone they way they wished to be addressed and a parent can have legal repercussions for not supporting and financing their child's desire to make permanent life changing choices

Quote:

Freedom said:
I'm guessing that the existence of trans people feels threatening to you, or your identity




How exactly is a man that wants to be a woman a threat to me? Or a woman that wants to be a man for that matter?  They aren't, not in any sense of the word.  This is exactly the kind of disingenuous bullshit argument your side likes to make and honestly, I can't respect someone so happy to be someone else's puppet.  There are enough people that have regretted their decision to transition and decided to de-transition (even though you really can't undo any of the harm that's done) that it should be looked into more deeply.

I can completely understand why a woman would feel threatened by the trans agenda though.  It's mostly their rights, sense of safety, and hard work that are being trampled on.  So I suppose I do feel a certain amount of anger over the threat it presents to women and girls

What I feel for trans people is not hate, it's called compassion and it's fucked up that compassion gets viewed as hate because some people think others that aren't thinking clearly should be looked out for and cared for enough that we don't immediately jump into letting them do whatever harm they wish on themselves.  Some people are brave enough to go against the grain when things don't make sense.  There are enough that regret the decision to transition that we should be looking closely at whether or not we should be tackling this problem like we are

When people became so scared of going against public opinion that they started buying into ideas out of fear and without true understanding, we as a society set ourselves on a horrible course

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
    #28665425 - 02/18/24 12:11 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

It seems a simple matter, trans-hate is based in some fear/concern and transferred to an individual for use as a proxy. Any perceived difference can potentially be perceived as a threat of some kind and while we could make some generalities about the nature of a specific instance of hate it's reasonable that the function is highly personal i.e. we can't truly know what causes someone to hate unless we know their experience.


--------------------
rahz

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"A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." - Proverbs 17:22

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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #28665434 - 02/18/24 12:16 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

or even what looks like a completely made up idea that people who transition regret it to a large degree




It is hard to believe the numbers for or against, but to call it made up is denial. Jazz Jennings, probably the second most famous trans person after Jenner, who made millions as a TV personality, has total regret. And yet you seemingly have no interest in understanding why despite your fascination with this subject.




I was thinking of Jazz also.  There is an episode with the mom telling Jazz not to talk about his regret and it seems really obvious that the mom knows she would look really bad if her son started telling everyone how she got him to cut off his dick by manipulating a 13 year old for social clout, publicity, and money. 

I also enjoyed (ugh, not really) the episode with the mom having lunch with her girlfriends telling them how she goes into Jazz's room at night and does his "vagina stretching" exercises for him because he doesn't want to do it.  She explains that without repeated stretching of the hole that it will close up and "by god I'm not gonna let that thing close up".  It's seriously fucked up to hear her say that shit when you know that what she's essentially saying is:
-I had my son's dick cut off
-I had a "vagina" put back in it's place
-I go into his room at night and wake him up so I can fuck his fake pussy with a dildo
:grossman:

If someone can put this in a way that doesn't sound like child sexual abuse, I'm willing to listen but...holy shit, good luck with that

Edit: What is so great about that show, is that the mom, and I'm sure the network, believed they were putting out this show that would increase understanding and normalize the whole thing but in the end, the child (science experiment) ended up blowing up the whole ideology they were trying to push

Edited by TheStallionMang (02/18/24 12:18 PM)

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28665473 - 02/18/24 12:45 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:


When someone does something, anything, that makes them stand out against the norm, there will be both positive and negative attention received.  That concept seems pretty simple





that's a simple concept, but it makes no sense. I think in places with a homogenous economy (like midwest farm lands) cultures tend to be homogenous, and in places with a diverse economy where many different types of people are needed, cultures tend to be diverse.

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
I know a good number of people that haven't bought into the trans agenda (like you clearly have)




I am not aware of a trans agenda. I have some trans friends. I don't understand it or pretend that I do. I don't have any sense of gender myself. I don't think they are wrong just because I don't understand them.

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:when we started talking about cutting and pasting private parts, it was not ok to discuss it or question it.  It'd be like taking your car in because the engine isn't firing properly and the mechanic says "let's just change out a few body parts and you'll be ok".  Can people on the other side admit that it seems a little odd to treat a mental condition with upwards of $1,000,000 worth of hormones and surgery? Probably not but that's how it goes.  Where financial incentive lies, there will be greed and corruption

Doctors, psychiatrists, and anyone else qualified to have intelligent discussions about the matter have been silenced and/or fired for asking questions in an attempt to find out if we are in fact tackling this problem from the wrong angle and really that's the only thing I need to know to fully understand that there is something sinister going on here.  When conversation is stifled there can be no understanding and I believe that one side KNOWS they don't have any reasonable or scientific reason for feeling the way they do so they react in overly emotional ways and use all the twisted verbiage they've heard in an effort to shut down conversation without actually answering a goddamn thing






the people I know who are trans don't have any problem talking about it with me.

Maybe its because you're asking about a topic thats sensitive to them and so they don't feel comfortable talking about it with you. I have no idea what the 'norm' is about talking about these things. It seems like its a hot topic of debate at the moment.


Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
because inside the question lies the supposition that there is a lot of transgender hate. Trying to understand someone and asking questions isn't a sign of hate, it's a sign of compassion and desire to understand,





I'm talking about physical and verbal assualt as expressions of hate,, not compassionate questions :lol:


Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
Let's look at some things happening due to giving into trans peoples' agenda:
-Mixed sex prisons where female inmates are turning up pregnant due to fucking trans "women".  Should we force abortion or force them to carry it? If we make them keep it, what do we do with the kid?
-Speaking of prisons, our tax dollars pay for inmates sex change operations and that is just wrong
-Grown men now have the right to expose themselves to young girls in what used to be safe spaces like bathrooms, locker rooms and dressing rooms.  Girls should be allowed to feel comfortable and shouldn't have to expose themselves to or be exposed to someone they don't wish to.  A policy that allows a person an easy opening to young women in vulnerable situations is rife for a predator to pretend they are where they belong.  Quite a few rapes have been reported by high school girls that have happened on school grounds by a male who claims to be trans and oddly enough, the schools are doing everything they can to keep this quiet
-Girls are forced to compete with bio males that wouldn't have a chance if they were competing against other males which negates the hard work of female athletes. 
-In some parts of the world, it's a crime to not acknowledge someone they way they wished to be addressed and a parent can have legal repercussions for not supporting and financing their child's desire to make permanent life changing choices






I think these topics are obviously more nuanced than you're presenting them. for example, is ok for male sexual predators to share a bathroom with young boys but not young girls?

Quote:

Freedom said:
I'm guessing that the existence of trans people feels threatening to you, or your identity




you just listed a bunch of ways you view the 'trans agenda' as threatening

I am not on a side. I don't even watch the news, I don't know what biden's or trumps policies are. I don't know what the trans agenda or anti trans agenda is.

I think there are a lot of legitimate questions, those questions have nothing to do with hate. I used an example to help you understand what I'm trying to talk about. here it is again in more detail.

I have a friend that started wearing women's clothes.  When they did this they became the target of verbal and physical assault by strangers in public. I am wondering why this would happen. I don't have an agenda, philosophy or ideology behind this question. I'm not representing anyone, I am curious.

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28665513 - 02/18/24 01:12 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:

How exactly is a man that wants to be a woman a threat to me? Or a woman that wants to be a man for that matter?  They aren't, not in any sense of the word. 





My best guess for why people hate trans people or even feel uncomfortable with them is because they feel threatened by them.

I think people feel threatened by anything that challenges their view of the world or themselves because these views give a (false) sense of safety.

Maybe you see a cute girl and feel attracted to her then realize her fingers are longer than normal, and then suddenly you feel disoriented. You're attracted but the person is trans and you have some sort of internal conflict.

or maybe you've dowloaded a cultural idea about how people should be, and forced yourself to be certain ways. and then you see someone outside of that norm and suddenly its obvious that the norms you forced yourself to follow were just cultural ideas, not universal truths

it can play out in a million ways.

the threat to one's identity or one's idea of how the world should be is the only idea I have to explain it. I don't know or claim that its true.

Edited by Freedom (02/18/24 01:13 PM)

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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: sudly]
    #28665703 - 02/18/24 03:00 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:

I know it's hard to believe people actually believe they themselves are different genders and all that, and there surely are some sappy fads that attention seeking asswipes whine about, but there's a huge portion of people who truly and genuinely embody a different gender to their biological sex, and are much happier for it.




We also need to embrace white people who embody a different race, such as being black.  There's no reason to only focus on genitalia.  Some white people truly and genuinely embody a different race and are much happier for it.  We should not hate them or view them as freaks.

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28665719 - 02/18/24 03:13 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

sudly said:

I know it's hard to believe people actually believe they themselves are different genders and all that, and there surely are some sappy fads that attention seeking asswipes whine about, but there's a huge portion of people who truly and genuinely embody a different gender to their biological sex, and are much happier for it.




We also need to embrace white people who embody a different race, such as being black.  There's no reason to only focus on genitalia.  Some white people truly and genuinely embody a different race and are much happier for it.  We should not hate them or view them as freaks.





blackness and whiteness is a cultural phenomena

if you hang out in black communities for very long, you'll see the black guy that acts white and see how people respond to him, and you'll see people who could pass for white in appearance who act very black and are accepted as black

you'll also see mixed people who aren't accepted as black or white or hispanic or whatever cause they aren't black or white or hispanic enough

how hard is it to understand there are physical and cultural dimensions?

how arrogant is it to assume that because you don't understand something it isn't valid?

Edited by Freedom (02/18/24 03:15 PM)

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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
    #28665745 - 02/18/24 03:39 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

How arrogant is it to assume that because you don't understand something that it IS valid?

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28665909 - 02/18/24 06:02 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

maybe it is, maybe it isn't

If someone is willing to have surgery for a reason, and if the studies show the decision regret for that surgery is about 1%, I'm willing to give the benefit of the  doubt, or at least be curious

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
    #28665929 - 02/18/24 06:26 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

And yet a study has shown "no advantage of surgery in relation to subsequent mood or anxiety disorder-related health care visits or prescriptions or hospitalizations following suicide attempts in that *comparison." *surgical vs non-surgical outcomes.

That was from a correction. The original study had already suggested hormonal treatment also had no effect on subsequent outcome in those regards.

If it's considered cosmetic fine, but it it's related to a positive outcome that includes better mental health it's falling flat and questionable as medicine.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace
I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know


"A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." - Proverbs 17:22

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Rahz]
    #28665944 - 02/18/24 06:41 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

It sounds like people are really interested in analyzing the trans phenomenon, maybe I'll make a different post about that.

This was intended to focus on why people feel hate or assault trans people

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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
    #28666018 - 02/18/24 07:33 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Ok, good luck getting people that hate and attack trans people to post in your new thread.  Sorry we disappointed you

Quote:

Freedom said:
Maybe you see a cute girl and feel attracted to her then realize her fingers are longer than normal, and then suddenly you feel disoriented. You're attracted but the person is trans and you have some sort of internal conflict.





Holy shit there are so many things wrong with that post

Have you ever actually been fooled by a man dressed up like a woman?  Does your brain not immediately register that "something is off" when it is?

I'm not trying to be mean but literally every trans person I've ever seen looks like they're mocking the opposite sex and would never fool anyone for a second.  Even from a distance it's very easy to see thru hair, makeup, clothes, and boob jobs because men and women carry themselves differently

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28666208 - 02/18/24 10:56 PM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
Ok, good luck getting people that hate and attack trans people to post in your new thread.  Sorry we disappointed you






It would be funny if I was so invested in this conversation to be disappointed by the responses

and sad too

I never made a link between disagreeing with trans people and hating them. I disagree with everybody, disagreeing is normal. we all have our own unique life experience that has shaped how we view things.

Edited by Freedom (02/18/24 10:57 PM)

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