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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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smokedtrolli said: I am open to discussion, feel free to pick apart what I'm saying.
What I may feel or express about you in privacy is different and not your concern. The thing is though, if I see a 999 normal looking bananas, and then I see one banana that is purple and is shaped like a loop-the-loop, my brain says "this is irregular; aberrant". This is a bit of a simplification but hopefully the idea I'm communicating makes sense. Nonetheless, the same applies to when I encounter someone who is transgender. Immediately they register as a deviation from the norm. I can't control that. I'll treat you with respect, but I cannot change that perception of you.
if you believe you are trapped inside your thoughts and emotions, you'll always be in a position of victimhood to them.
as soon as you realize you're outside your thoughts and emotions, you have freedom from them. you don't have to believe your thoughts. Emotion loses its power when the thought generating it isn't believed.
as for your thoughts and judgements in privacy, I think they are the concern of transgender people. what you believe alone in your house gets expressed outside your house. what you think about people changes how you relate to them, especially if you believe your thoughts.
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smokedtrolli said: When you deviate from the norm, chances are you're going to face some condemnation for it. In some cases, what you're doing is counter-culture and maybe becomes the new norm or is celebrated. But in the cases where you are being shamed, that can have two outcomes. You either double down and live with it, or change your behavior to fit the most dominating expectations (and sometimes this works in your favor, because I think most of us can reflect on things we once did that now make us feeling loathing or embarrassment).
So that would be my first point; there is nothing normal about being transgender at all. I don't think that can be changed.
normal? this is (or perhaps was) normal in Papua New Guinea:

I think normality tends to be an identity issue, and the difficulty with abnormality is it intrinsically points out the fragility of identity, which most people cling to for an illusory sense of safety. In other words if you force yourself to be what you think your culture sees as normal, you can pretend you'll belong through that identity. This happens at the familial, sub culture, and broader culture levels. The mere existence of someone outside the norm threatens that absurdity, its not that the abnormality is absurd, it reveals the whole show is absurd.
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smokedtrolli said: My second point is more practical I think, and less arguable, although it is the crux of the matter.
Following through with hormone treatment clearly has effects that are presently irreversible. For trans advocates however, most seem to suggest that the earlier this transition is done, the better, as I guess the effects will be more pronounced if done during puberty?
Is anyone really going to say that children are able to make that decision for themselves? A completely permanent life altering decision when you are barely in puberty? No backpedaling? It's just asinine IMO.
Reality is, science and technology do not permit us, at this time, to alter our sex and wind up with a fully functional system. Compromises must be made. Sadly, these compromises relate to reproductive ability and genitalia, which are to many, fundamental aspects of their lives, and for the unfortunate people that regret their transition for whatever reason, they have to live with that forever. I feel for those people. Seriously.
I think this is evidence for something really important. That a person would subject themselves to violence, ridicule and serious and life altering therapies and surgeries suggest to me its not just a mild fantasy. Especially when people report being happier after transitioning.
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smokedtrolli said: The other facet of this topic as it has to do with children is their exposure to it. Why does it need to be in schools? Why? Why? Why? Isn't it odd that we have supposedly collectively decided that certain aspects of our worldview, we're just going to leave up to a curriculum devised by people we don't really know, or at best, the thoughts of a "teacher" who is just another person that is again, a part of that system? I grew up in the 2000s and at that time it wasn't in schools from what I remember. That doesn't mean I never encountered a trans person before out at a grocery store or wherever and had no opportunity to form any thoughts about it.
I'm not sure what you mean about it being in the schools. Like teachers acknowledge the existence of trans people?
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smokedtrolli said: Admittedly, I have never dealt with gender dysphoria so I can't speak on that. Briefly, as a child, I wore my mother's sandals and heels I guess because I was a kid doing stupid shit. Of course, people in my life found it weird. Just like any other thing a kid does, I gauged the reactions of people around me and that influenced my behavior, and I stopped doing it. Am I in living in a deficit now because I can't wear women's heels? No, if I was so dead-set on doing it, I would be doing it in private, or I'd face the fact that I'd be an outcast doing it in public and accept that. But parading around calling everyone else who finds it weird a piece of shit, trying to convince people I'm normal for doing that, and expecting the world to conform around a strange predilection I have for women's footwear would be absurd.
Imagine a large amount of people, almost everywhere you went, despised, were disgusted by you, found something that to you was intrinsic to your being awful and terrible. not cause you thought wearing a certain kind of shoe was fun or rebellious, but because of something inherent in your individuality. I think the appearance is an expression of something people feel deeply about themselves. they don't want to have to hide, to be invisible, to be outcast, to be unaccepted.
I don't think they are trying to force anything on anyone else, I think they just want to exist, and their very existence is apparently intolerable to many people.
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primordialkraken
merciless


Registered: 08/15/18
Posts: 112
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 1
#28657927 - 02/13/24 05:15 AM (4 months, 10 days ago) |
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got a trans cousin; i dont hate them. I do feel they are misled. The degeneracy of sodom and gomora presents itself in many ways...
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,699
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
#28657939 - 02/13/24 05:47 AM (4 months, 10 days ago) |
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hate of the world,
[fill in type] hate, it's all the same hate.
why is their hate? a lack of love.
why is there a lack of love? bc of residing in a fallen world that is without G-d!
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Peopleschoice
Novice Shroom grower

Registered: 12/23/23
Posts: 42
Last seen: 3 months, 5 hours
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 2
#28658104 - 02/13/24 08:32 AM (4 months, 10 days ago) |
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That's just it. "cis person" what the hell is that. I'm just a person. They are called trans because they choose to transition to the opposite gender. They are still people, but they are trans-women or trans-men.
Any thought pattern recognized by a large group is usually considered an ideology. The ideology that there are cis people is just weird and it is an ideology.
The feeling of disgust comes from my biological programming. It's unnatural by definition so when I see someone who is transgender it just feels weird. When you grow up in a normal family and never interact with anyone like that until you are 20 it's not going to be easy to get used to.
Like I said before though. You can do what ever you want as long as you don't force anything on me. Obviously they have a right to live and a right to anything I can do but that doesn't mean I have to be an "ally" or an "enemy" I can just be some guy who doesn't ask questions and doesn't care.
We should all strive to not give a fuck what other people do and just worry about ourselves and those in our lives. It's fucked to have a government force anything onto its citizens.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,047
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
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An ideology is a system of beliefs.
I'm suggesting this is more like a desire. A desire for a certain kind of body.
The idea that one person's desire is natural and another person's desire is unnatural seems odd to me. Everything is happening naturally. Everything is a part of nature.
what do you mean its weird that someone thinks there are cis people? if there are no cis people wouldn't that make everyone trans?
I get we all share a basic humanity, however we are all different in many ways as well. I think part of being human is we are adaptable. People create cultures to live in desserts and arctic regions and cities and the Midwest and jungles etc.
some people like peanut butter and some people hate it.
When you say trans people are disgusting, to me its like you're saying people who like toast are disgusting, or people who wear button up shirts are disgusting.
if you can see our common humanity, then you can see that a trans person is also a person right? how can a person be disgusting?
What about people that get leg amputations for medical reasons, are they disgusting? How about old people who become incontinent, are they disgusting?
I imagine that there is fear behind your disgust
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Peopleschoice
Novice Shroom grower

Registered: 12/23/23
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 1
#28658210 - 02/13/24 10:08 AM (4 months, 10 days ago) |
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I don't mean their thoughts on why they are doing it. I simply mean the ideology pushed onto others.
It's silly to say they are both natural in the cultural sense. But of course I agree it is natural in the biological sense.
Saying "cis" is part of the ideology. Nobody says that. You are either male, female, trans-female, trans-male, or any other thing you want.
To invert your penis or trying to mutilate your vagina into a penis is disgusting to me. If you choose to not do that then no complaints from me. But like I said, I can find these things disgusting but that doesn't mean people should be restricted from do them. I respect people opinions on the matter but I just personally feel gross by it.
Culturally I am used to amputations and old people, its natural "culturally" I will get used to trans people later in my life, I'm sure of, but for right now it is culturally unnatural.
There is no fear, I have met transgender people and interacted with them like normal humans, since that's what they are. But the I have never met one where I can question their beliefs and not have them feel offended. I don't think you are understanding my position, I would say I am neutral to the matter.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 2
#28664309 - 02/17/24 06:10 PM (4 months, 6 days ago) |
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Freedom said: A trans friend was assaulted yesterday.
I just read a high school student is under police protection in Utah after a school board member questioned the student's gender.
Why is there so much hate towards trans people?
Your anecdote of one means little.
Almost all murders of trans people are done by people close to them or clients in the sex trades, not random strangers full of hate.
What is incredible is that the 53 yo transwoman Canadian swimmer changing and showering with 11 yo girls has not been knocked senseless by an enraged father. That is some amazing tolerance!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,441
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(Not to any specific post or poster)
If you want to see some real hate all you have to do is look to the trans community itself. People that bought into the myth that mutilating your body to make it superficially appear like the opposite gender, will bring mental well-being, find out that, not only have they become a lifelong medical patient with endless complications, but also that it rarely brings about the desired results; i.e.; trans-regret. Detransitioners are rarely allowed to speak freely of their experiences and also regularly receive many death threats from fellow trans people; not "cis" people.
Why? Because to challenge the underlying falsehood of the narrative is heresy and must be dealt with harshly!
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,047
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do you have any sources for the regret idea your sharing? from what I'm looking at decision regret of gonadectomy in trans people is far lower than for things like hip or knee surgery.
and do you have sources for the hate you think exists? in any group the loudmouths tend to be heard more often than the quiet ones
I have a number of trans friends and they don't appear to be hateful at all. that assault is like 1 of hundreds my friend experienced after coming out and dressing like a woman. they didn't experience that before coming out.
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,966
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 1
#28664447 - 02/17/24 07:12 PM (4 months, 6 days ago) |
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What is a woman anyway? Tell me without using the word woman...
I've listened to a lot of discussion (or attempted discussions) on the matter. There is a lot more anger coming from one side than the other as far as I can tell. I am led to believe that trans people can't make sense of it to themselves because they don't seem to be able to form a better argument than "because I say so and if you don't accept what I say without question you must be afraid of or hate me!"
I try to understand people but this doesn't make sense
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 1
#28664498 - 02/17/24 07:31 PM (4 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
and do you have sources for the hate you think exists?
Has nothing to do with me or my thoughts. This is from the mouths of the detransitioners themselves telling how former friends in the trans community completely turned on them. Go to Youtube and pick one out yourself so that you will not think I am cherry-picking.
I have two artificial hips. At 69 I am back playing sports when previously I was barely able to walk. I have never received a single death threat from the either the biological hip or artificial hip community. Nor have I ever attacked a person with botched hip surgery who had regret. Why? Because my hips are not my identity and come with no agenda, dogma nor ideology.
You must ask yourself why a trans person would possibly hate on another who had trans regret and merely wanted to publicly explain that it was not the miracle cure-all for their emotional and mental well-being. Delve into that a bit.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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I try to understand people but this doesn't make sense
Trans people and their supporters say that gender is a social construct not based upon genitalia and biology, then go out of their way to make it almost entirely about genitalia and hormone levels. Makes sense, no?
Trans people say they just want everyone to accept them for who they are; yet they do not. Makes sense, no?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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What is a woman anyway? Tell me without using the word woman...
A tree is that which looks like a tree! How did I do?
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,966
Loc:
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
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and do you have sources for the hate you think exists?
Has nothing to do with me or my thoughts. This is from the mouths of the detransitioners themselves telling how former friends in the trans community completely turned on them. Go to Youtube and pick one out yourself so that you will not think I am cherry-picking.
I have two artificial hips. At 69 I am back playing sports when previously I was barely able to walk. I have never received a single death threat from the either the biological hip or artificial hip community. Nor have I ever attacked a person with botched hip surgery who had regret. Why? Because my hips are not my identity and come with no agenda, dogma nor ideology.
You must ask yourself why a trans person would possibly hate on another who had trans regret and merely wanted to publicly explain that it was not the miracle cure-all for their emotional and mental well-being. Delve into that a bit.
This is brilliant. I'm glad your new hips get you back in the game
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OrgoneConclusion said:
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What is a woman anyway? Tell me without using the word woman...
A tree is that which looks like a tree! How did I do?
Well you did as good as anyone else has...
I like the analogy that goes something like, a transgender child is a lot like a vegan cat. We all know who's calling the shots
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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I like the analogy that goes something like, a transgender child is a lot like a vegan cat. We all know who's calling the shots
There is a hilarious YouTube video. Not sure if it is a spoof or not, but it shows a woman declaring her dog is vegan and puts a salad and a plate of meat in front of the dog and scolds him when he chooses meat.
Years ago, on here, I explained that as a man, I do not know what a man feels like; only what I feel like. For a person to declare they feel like the opposite sex without knowing what that feels like is just ludicrous. All they can state for certain is that they are unhappy and try to pin it on some external circumstance that can be manipulated. The outward cannot fix the internal.
We have seen this in plastic surgery. Woman: "I would be happier and feel sexier if I had bigger breasts." Woman: "I need even bigger breasts and butt implants and Botox to feel happier and sexier." This sometimes continues until they look like a caricature. Chasing the outward alleviates tension only for a short while.
The same can be said of material things. If only I drove a Corvette instead of a Jetta, my life would be so much better. Works for a bit and then another fix is needed. And another...
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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I think our psychological (psychosexual identity) experts are not expert enough, but the hip business is clearly a no-brainer. the smart money goes to titanium ball joints
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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I could not afford them and got LEGOs instead.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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Pulling out 🦵🦵
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Perhaps, instead of Legos, I should have said I got hippos...
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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and I should have said "our", not out, but I was on my dumb phone.
BTW what lovely hippos you have!
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