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Zmush
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Registered: 02/11/24
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Are These Plates Ready For Grain?+ Advanced Mycology Question
#28663702 - 02/17/24 10:38 AM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Hi fam!
I got my hands on some spores a couple of months ago. My first time doing anything with mushrooms. So a total beginner with no prior experience. Honestly, it's been trial and error. I've been doing transfers to get growth like the picture below.

After doing some reading, I learned that what is pictured is a monoculture - sector isolation of a single strain. I quickly found out that it takes a lot of work to get there (especially for a beginner, no intention to insult the pros lol) and you don't even know what you will be getting when spawning it. That takes a lot of testing. Just want to grow some shrooms ASAP to begin with.
As a beginner, you want to go to grain ASAP as long as you have a clean plate. Afterwards, you can clone the mushroom you want and test out different plates that you have isolated. By doing too many transfers, you could be transferring away from something you want. That is the right assumption, right?
Agar Plate's Here are some of my plates that show the most potential. They are on Transfer 4 or 5 (lost count, but no more than 5). Note that they all are at day 8, some have less growth, is that a bad thing? Also, it's hard to see if there are any contamination due to the Tomentose growth. Personally, they look clean to me and they are ready to spawn. I'm looking to make a Master plate and transfer it to 'Production Plates' so I have an Inventory to fall back into if shit hits the fan. I do not want to ruin all the progress, therefore I want some opinion from you guys. Which ones would you use as a Master plate?
I apologize in advance for the bad photos. I tried to get different angles with different lighting for the best illustration. I use a No Pour Tek, so of course some water stains on the lids.
Here we go (I've categorized the plates in a chronological fashion according to what I think has the best potential):
PLATE A



PLATE B


PLATE C


PLATE D - Looks clean. But very little growth compared to other plates


PLATE E

PLATE F


PLATE G


PLATE H


PLATE I - Weird growth closest to transfer - Contam?


PLATE J


PLATE K - More fluffy compared to other plates, void?

PLATE L - Clear sectoring. But unsure due to weird growth.



Those are the plates. Which one to choose with best potential as Master Plate?
Advanced Questions Furthermore, I have some more questions regarding cultivation. I wrote 'advanced' due to many opinions and I have not gotten a clear answer by reading the forums. So hopefully someone who have done this a while can answer. Note, I'm fully aware that those questions won't help me getting to grain faster. I'm just finding the topic interesting, that's all.
1 - Mushroom genetics - If you clone a mushroom that fits your criteria and print it, do you move one generation up, or do you reset all your genetics? Since when you do a multispore inoculation, you randomly mix all the genetics. That is what I have been reading from some of the members.
I also read in the forum that a wild mushroom has presumably 100% heterozygosity. In short term, more gene varieties. Every time you clone and print, the heterozygosity drops 50% —> less gene variety. So in theory, if you do enough spore prints, you'll end up with the same strain(0.00--->1 heterozygosity)? In other words, a monoculture of spore prints?
On the assumption you have done 6-7 generations, the variety of mushrooms you get is very stable. If you have bred the wrong mushrooms, there is no point of return if you've lost the prior generations of spore prints. You are stuck with what you get?
2. Senescence. - Let's say you have cloned a mushroom and you take a spore print out of that (one gen up). You incubate it in agar and keep an isolate as a Master plate. You could store that as a slant in the refrigerator. When it goes bad, can you just incubate it in a new slant again, or will the mycelium go bad -> start again with a spore print?
I've read that senescence is hard to reach in agar since the cell divisions are on a much smaller scale compared to grain to grain (G2G). With G2G you shouldn't do more than 3 generations since the vigor drops significantly. Is that a correct assumption?
So question is - You can store a master plate for 1-2 year(s), you could, with one master plate, produce more shrooms than you know what to do with in that period of time until the plate goes bad. If the assumption is right that on agar senescence can't be reached unless you do thousands of transfers, you simply could just be making a new slant every 1-2 years?
The questions are built on if I even have the right assumptions. Please correct me.
Thank you for reading this and going through pictures. Much appreciated. --Zmush
Edited by Zmush (02/17/24 01:43 PM)
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Zmush
Stranger
Registered: 02/11/24
Posts: 49
Last seen: 7 days, 17 hours
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Re: Are These Plates Ready For Grain?+ Advanced Mycology Question [Re: Zmush]
#28664076 - 02/17/24 03:06 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Bumping this up
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3.A.M
Boop!



Registered: 10/17/22
Posts: 1,401
Loc: Oz
Last seen: 2 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: Are These Plates Ready For Grain?+ Advanced Mycology Question [Re: Zmush]
#28664096 - 02/17/24 03:31 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Holy shit that’s a lot! Pretty much every question you’ve asked the answers can be found through the search engine quite easily but yes, as far as I can tell those plates are fine to go to grain, you’ve done well, you won’t know from looking at them which one will grow the best so grow them out then clone the best fruits from the best grow starting with the healthiest quickest growing myc. Starting from spores does reset the genetics to a certain degree but you’ll get a lot that are close to the parent fruit, same as breeding anything. Cloning does not reset the genetics, it’s a clone, but every time you transfer from that clone plate you’re reducing the genetic diversity by the tiniest of degrees. You don’t need to worry about senescence and there’s multiple ways to preserve a culture. Yes you can grow from a slant indefinitely and back up that slant every so often just in case. The search engine seems clunky at first but it’s awesome once you get used to it 👍
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Daeda1us



Registered: 03/06/23
Posts: 144
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Re: Are These Plates Ready For Grain?+ Advanced Mycology Question [Re: 3.A.M]
#28664150 - 02/17/24 04:19 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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detailed search engine tek. play around with the settings and keywords. to figure out the clunky-ness try searching topics you already understand using different settings and keyword strategies. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24270830#24270830
-------------------- New or Returning Grower? Start here
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Zmush
Stranger
Registered: 02/11/24
Posts: 49
Last seen: 7 days, 17 hours
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Re: Are These Plates Ready For Grain?+ Advanced Mycology Question [Re: Daeda1us]
#28664224 - 02/17/24 05:14 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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That’s great to hear!
I have done my research, found that there are several opinions on the matter, hence the reason for my questions.
Pretty sure I wrote that down also in my post, but that’s a long post to read, lol
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