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alkasike96
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How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies?
#28661541 - 02/16/24 02:37 AM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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The idea of having a tsarist style monarchy returning to the Western world in this day and age is nonexistent, everyone wants to have democracies and republics and have them run that aren't into normal and noble peoples interests.
Imagine if there was a successful coup in America or the uk and someone became a king or dictator, and actually made life better for everyone that was never brought by a democracy or republic, would you honestly not prefer this over a republic democracy?
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: alkasike96] 1
#28661597 - 02/16/24 05:02 AM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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democratic collaborative anarchy is what we need, security and liberty from oppression.
I could not consider that life would be made better for all people with the appearance of a king or tyrannical dominating coup in any modern country: the mere fact that so many people are at so many different stages in life with different goals suggests that top down directives or decrees from a single person (or party) will be unpleasant for most people. Only permissive democracies support the kind of life we are now used to.
And elections that enable change in governments provide hope for people who feel left out.
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alkasike96
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28661627 - 02/16/24 05:58 AM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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How does democracy equal freedom? The United States had the highest percentage of people in jail or prison in the world for minor crimes, you can go to jail for defending yourself with a gun as a guy, and the European union has speech laws and shit, both places along with every nato country claims to be republic or democratic but its only as good as the people of them are noble and non reprobate and the west is littered with the nastiest types of people imaginable.
Anarchy? Sooner or later a guy is going to accumulate wealth and arms and men and take over shit, anarchy is a joke.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,483
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: alkasike96]
#28661846 - 02/16/24 09:07 AM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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The extent to which a democratic republic is a reality is not a matter of perception but practice. If laws are subverted or ignored a democratic republic will cease to be a reality while the perception remains.
I tend to see the advancement of neo-government as primarily one of financial influence. Technocratic. Oligarchic. Banks and hedge funds set the pace and direction forward. A technocratic oligarchy is as close as it comes to monarchy in the West. It gives the appearance of democracy, republicanism, socialism by allowing these functions to exist so long as they don't affect major policy decisions.
If you want some idea of what's up find @Cancelcloco on x.com and peruse his feed.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace I am I feel I do I love I speak I see I know "A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." - Proverbs 17:22
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: alkasike96]
#28662180 - 02/16/24 12:37 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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many people are into what aboutism. I think this is bullshit personified.
you suck
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Pinkerton
Koanist

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,638
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28662184 - 02/16/24 12:42 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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you suck
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B Traven
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: Pinkerton]
#28662279 - 02/16/24 01:39 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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Putin's doing just fine, thank you very much.
Amerka would never go for it- we're hayseed pioneers, not Eurasian serfs.
Edited by B Traven (02/16/24 01:47 PM)
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 4,098
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28663252 - 02/16/24 11:21 PM (4 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: you suck
don't suck
"don't fuck us anywhere" pineapple express
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: alkasike96]
#28663585 - 02/17/24 09:15 AM (4 months, 6 days ago) |
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If a king made things better, of course I would prefer it. That's part of the definition of better.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: Freedom]
#28663689 - 02/17/24 10:28 AM (4 months, 6 days ago) |
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but would it not be a fantasy, our world is so complex, power falling in the hands of a king is like reinventing Putin.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28663862 - 02/17/24 12:04 PM (4 months, 6 days ago) |
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The OP was asking us to fantasize
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: Freedom]
#28664485 - 02/17/24 07:26 PM (4 months, 6 days ago) |
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fantasize Putin then, lipstick him up to look Trumpy if you like.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28664503 - 02/17/24 07:34 PM (4 months, 6 days ago) |
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28665532 - 02/18/24 01:19 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: fantasize Putin then, lipstick him up to look Trumpy if you like.
well to play by the rules of the OP putin has to actually make things better
so if putin somehow had a change of heart and in some unimaginable way became king of the us, just imagine somehow he makes everything better than democracy could. perhaps he solves the economic, cultural, environmental and geopolitical problems in a way everyone agrees with. then say he returns things to a more stable democracy after he dies
of course that would be preferable. of course its exceedingly unlikely
so is owning park place and boardwalk, but monopoly is also just a fun game
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,483
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: Freedom]
#28665786 - 02/18/24 04:19 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Kings rarely (trying to avoid absolutism) make life better. At best they don't make life worse. That is true of government in general.
"Any power that Government takes from the people, it will never return voluntarily. Every power that Government takes, it will ultimately be abused to the maximum extent possible. Nobody ever complied their way out of totalitarianism. The only thing we can do is resist." -RFK Jr.
To the OP, as has been pointed out, if a dictator made life better sure that would be preferable. But what is the context of the question? The thread title asks how people accepted living under monarchies. With Monarchies (and others like the Roman Republic), things are at their best when the government has forces murdering, raping and pillaging in distant lands.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace I am I feel I do I love I speak I see I know "A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." - Proverbs 17:22
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: Rahz]
#28665978 - 02/18/24 07:05 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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ideals fail because we invest in an ideal instead of reality
thought experiments can yield interesting things, we don't have to take them seriously
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,974
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: Freedom]
#28666067 - 02/18/24 08:14 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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thank god!
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,851
Loc: Utah
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: alkasike96]
#28666250 - 02/19/24 12:52 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Violence. The people in power back up their power through violence, killing their political opposition, but also just plain old beatings for minor infractions.
If you knew you could have a sword rammed through your chest for minor infractions, you wouldn't have much motive to rebel either, and if you did rebel, guess where that sword is going.
And if you think that doesn't sound bad, just wait until they decide to cut off your cock, or ram a sword up your ass, or both. And then just wait until they make you watch while they do the same to your family.
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RationalEgo
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Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,122
Loc: Boston
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Re: How did human societies from the Roman empire to the American revolution accepted being ruled by monarchies? [Re: nooneman]
#28668135 - 02/20/24 12:47 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We should be thankful, however flawed our system of government is, that it does still have some checks and balances in place so that dictatorship is less possible. Messy freedom is much better than absolute monarchical rule. Spinoza however did have something to say about a Constitutional Monarchism being a pretty good option, but I forget what he said and certainly don't agree that it would be better than a Constitutional Republic. Two world examples being the UK vs the US systems.
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