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Skropi
Space Ritual


Registered: 11/01/23
Posts: 414
Loc: Greece
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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What is a bad trip? 1
#28656247 - 02/11/24 10:55 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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I am seriously asking here, as my experience with psychedelics is limited. What constitutes a bad trip? I mean, I had a trip that could be considered "bad", too emotional, lots of crying, visions centered around my anxiety, using allegorical visions etc. I wouldn't describe this as bad though, as after the trip, I felt somewhat liberated. Yeah, I didn't have "fun", but this is different than being "bad". So, is a bad trip something else entirely, that I just haven't experienced yet? Or is the expectation that one should have fun with psychedelics, and the fact that it's not met, described as "bad"?
-------------------- Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,847
Loc: Utah
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Skropi]
#28656263 - 02/11/24 11:22 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Hell. As good as psychedelics can get, they can get that bad too. That's been known about since they were first discovered.
Bad trips involve unwanted and unpleasant physical sensations and thoughts that are forced on you which you are unable to ignore. It often combines terrible physical sensations with terrible thoughts and internal sensations, which you are unable to repress or change. They might be physically painful, or involve other negative physical sensations. They could involve thoughts that are equally unpleasant or painful, which you are unable to block out or ignore. It could show you things that terrify you, things you hate or find disgusting, or things that disturb you. They might make you think and experience terrible things, things that are uniquely terrible to you specifically. It could make you think about these things, until they're all you experience.
These negative states tend to have an amplification effect, where they amplify each other, growing strong and stronger, worse and worse.
There are varying degrees of bad trips just like there are varying degrees of good trips. Exceptionally good and exceptionally bad trips both happen, but they are both relatively rare compared to the average trip.
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Orioncat
C student of the Golden Teacher


Registered: 11/16/19
Posts: 366
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Skropi]
#28656264 - 02/11/24 11:24 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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I used to not believe there was such thing as a bad trip. Sure, there are challenging trips, sad trips, emotional trips, even physically uncomfortable and mentally painful trips. It seems in most of these instances the user still states an overall satisfaction with the trip. However, there are a few individuals who end up with irreparable harm from the experience. Either it was so traumatic that they develop a PTSD from the experience, the substance itself causes damage, they cause damage to themselves or others during the experience, or an underlying mental health issue is brought to the surface and made worse. Any of these would constitute a bad trip in my book.
-------------------- Things I've learned so far: Death with consciousness can be boring. Balance is important. Set intentions, not expectations. Sad trips can be helpful as well as challenging trips. Stick with your first dose. We learn more when we listen rather than speak. Be kind. The small moments in life that tend to go unnoticed are sometimes the most beautiful.
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,847
Loc: Utah
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Orioncat] 1
#28656266 - 02/11/24 11:26 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Lots of people don't want to believe in it, but it's real.
If you have a painful awful experience that is horrible in every way with no redeeming value, there's no way you can spin that into calling it a good experience. I think people just have a problem admitting psychedelics have downsides.
Edited by nooneman (02/11/24 11:27 PM)
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Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
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Loc: FNQ
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: nooneman]
#28656413 - 02/12/24 06:28 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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We see people here in this board who have had bad trips, still spinning out with anxiety and fear weeks or even months after the trip. Oddly it's not even always dose dependant, some people end up in psychological crisis after only a dried gram.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Skropi
Space Ritual


Registered: 11/01/23
Posts: 414
Loc: Greece
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Skropi]
#28656450 - 02/12/24 07:42 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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I don't doubt that there are bad trips, I was just not sure what it is exactly, as I can't call cube consumption as "fun". Liberating yes, emotional yes, helpful in finding out repressed feelings yes. Pan cyans are probably more "fun". Now I understand that this thing actually exists, and it is very different from just crying due to trauma etc. Well, I can only speak for myself, but the help I've had from shrooms, is so huge, that a bad trip, would be a small price to pay, especially when you consider the continuous bad trip that is life, for some of us. I am not dosing regularly, as I am not doing it to get high, apart from the first time I've tried some pan cyans. After that first time though, it was apparent to me, that dosing shrooms should be used as medicine, at least in my case. Well, that is also what my psychiatrist said too btw, she should know, she is a doctor 😁 Thank you all for grounding me on reality, as I had a secret hope that I've already experienced the worst that psilocybin can bring. Now I know better. I was lucky to only have healing, and some almost "fun" trips till now, with some healthy doses of terror and fear mingled in, but I'll be on my toes now. Not that I think that someone could be prepared for a bad trip, based on what you are saying guys. Oh well, you win some, you lose some.
-------------------- Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον
Edited by Skropi (02/12/24 07:43 AM)
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Orioncat
C student of the Golden Teacher


Registered: 11/16/19
Posts: 366
Last seen: 13 days, 54 minutes
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Skropi] 3
#28656458 - 02/12/24 07:58 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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I'm not sure whether someone could prepare for a bad trip but they can do things to mitigate the risk. "Set and setting", we always hear it. Have a sitter if you think you need one. Have someone on call. Just the peace of mind of having someone you can call if you need help is powerful. Generally, meeting the human needs for warmth and sense of security tend to help.
-------------------- Things I've learned so far: Death with consciousness can be boring. Balance is important. Set intentions, not expectations. Sad trips can be helpful as well as challenging trips. Stick with your first dose. We learn more when we listen rather than speak. Be kind. The small moments in life that tend to go unnoticed are sometimes the most beautiful.
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Colorado1
Stranger
Registered: 04/22/22
Posts: 28
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Skropi]
#28656466 - 02/12/24 08:22 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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More than 10 years ago I smoked a bit too much weed and had a "bad trip". Since then my life changed radically, I started being interested/obsessed by existential questions, having strange coincidences and many other things that I never believed were possible. So in my opinion calling "bad trip" doesn't make much sense, these drugs can really and radically change the way you experience life, open so called "doors" that will never or hardly close again, regardless if you are ready or not to deal with them (I wasn't). Of course some people can handle without much problems or even grow from them, others like me just risk to remain traumatized for months, years or even life. I'm always very perplexed when people underestimate the risk saying bull**** like weed/psychedelics are the safest drugs, safer than alcohol and so on... Personally, I'd rather be on death bed due to alcohol intoxication but with a sound mental health than having to deal with a constant, hard to solve and possibly lifelong existential torments that have made a lonely, "crazy" outcast out of me.
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PancyanterA
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Colorado1] 1
#28656534 - 02/12/24 09:35 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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So far what I’ve experienced is the bad is coming from within. All it did was expose suppressed demons. I view it as a forced intervention. Tricked you both into the room, shut and locked the door and left you 2 to sit it out. At least feel one another instead of ignoring and neglecting.
It’s kind of like alcohol. That anger, violence, sadness, infedlity….. it was in you all along. Alcohol didn’t cause it it allowed you to let your unconscious guard down and let it out in full force without current regret (that comes in the morning and can last and last, but that’s who you currently are). Next day we often say “oh I/they were just drunk.”
Nope. Not at all. You don’t cheat in a relationship because you were drunk. You cheat because you’re a cheater. Probably stemming from some sort of suppressed toxic trauma that developed into insecurities. Act like it’s not there all you want. Live life for years unaffected as it sits quietly in the background watching and observing, but it’s there waiting until you make peace with it.
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Skropi
Space Ritual


Registered: 11/01/23
Posts: 414
Loc: Greece
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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I will have to disagree. Being under the influence of psychotropic substances, does cloud one's judgement, it's not as simple as stating that those things were in the person all along. Even courts judge differently someone under the influence mate, and for good reason. Anyway, thankfully I like growing them more than consuming them 😁 If only I could do this for a living, I would be more than happy. Too bad they are illegal, for now.
-------------------- Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον
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Skropi
Space Ritual


Registered: 11/01/23
Posts: 414
Loc: Greece
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Orioncat]
#28656596 - 02/12/24 10:44 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Orioncat said: I'm not sure whether someone could prepare for a bad trip but they can do things to mitigate the risk. "Set and setting", we always hear it. Have a sitter if you think you need one. Have someone on call. Just the peace of mind of having someone you can call if you need help is powerful. Generally, meeting the human needs for warmth and sense of security tend to help.
Yes, that is what I was thinking, that having someone you trust near you, is very helpful.
-------------------- Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον
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Skropi
Space Ritual


Registered: 11/01/23
Posts: 414
Loc: Greece
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Colorado1]
#28656598 - 02/12/24 10:45 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Colorado1 said: More than 10 years ago I smoked a bit too much weed and had a "bad trip". Since then my life changed radically, I started being interested/obsessed by existential questions, having strange coincidences and many other things that I never believed were possible. So in my opinion calling "bad trip" doesn't make much sense, these drugs can really and radically change the way you experience life, open so called "doors" that will never or hardly close again, regardless if you are ready or not to deal with them (I wasn't). Of course some people can handle without much problems or even grow from them, others like me just risk to remain traumatized for months, years or even life. I'm always very perplexed when people underestimate the risk saying bull**** like weed/psychedelics are the safest drugs, safer than alcohol and so on... Personally, I'd rather be on death bed due to alcohol intoxication but with a sound mental health than having to deal with a constant, hard to solve and possibly lifelong existential torments that have made a lonely, "crazy" outcast out of me.
I agree with you mate, and I will add that there are no safe drugs, absolutely none. Some just carry a greater risk.
-------------------- Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον
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WhoManBeing
PsychedelicYogi



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 3,861
Loc: Oregon
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Skropi] 1
#28656604 - 02/12/24 10:57 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Like seeing a bad movie, you know, wasn’t of pleasureful experience.
-------------------- Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!! Eye was thinking the other day... ahh, thinking never done me no good.
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WhoManBeing
PsychedelicYogi



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 3,861
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
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Skropi, have you looked and what is happening to you physically when consuming the mushrooms? It will all make more sense to you when do, if have.
The mushrooms, when consumed in large enough quantity, will take the energy of the brain and diminish that of outer regions collapsing into the center area of brain. “When logic and proportion have fallen soggy dead…. When you’ve just had some kind of mushroom and your mind is moving low…” White Rabbit, Jeffersons Airplane.
That outer region of the brain is a lot of jargon.
“Turn off your mind relax and float downstream.” The Beatles.
See picture below.
The idea to reimprinting mind, as Timothy Leary states and has done good studies to correcting habits on released inmates to return rate of say 80% to 20%, is the change that can happen while bringing that mind back up into normal operating function of the brain. Though, I see it as it’s not just a inner change that need happen to completely make change to that of the being for set and setting has one play self of different character to adapt own self presence and expression comfortability.
I see more so of the one who you are, content or irrational, takes into being by all factors of common days lifestyle; social, home life and health. These quack doctors thinking can dose mushrooms and benefit will reside into their patients life as if that smile and wave they share, happily taking the payment for a life improvement experience, is to overshadow the trouble of their patients homeostasis, so to say, that groove of habitual existence.
The experience is just a darn minds eye t-shirt for the day. One still need wash that shirt in their washer and dryer and put up with all that static that resides in and around their place of home. All that greatly influences the that beings manner to self expression.
I never saw drugs as a tool to change my being. That being was set in stone years ago.
When these first hit the western medicine grapevine, LSD, and later found Psilocybin of Sandoz Labs., and the psychologist using these, what they termed “psychotomimetic,” that of mimicking psychosis, saw the promotion of ‘be your own patient for four hours,’ as their best intellect of how say to pass along these drugs. And that’s what I’ve always saw of great fun to consumption of drugs, the trip. To wake up the next day after some drug trip and see of how that drug induced being was crazy and wake up same self always known. Not even as was another self through trip just observed a lot of altered mind states not common to normal diet and health.
This vision is all just a screen. Same as to the movie theatre sharing a vision of a good-humoured film bringing about a good experience or that of terror and disgust bringing about a bad experience, it’s all just a vision. And in this day and age, the social media, even that of living to the society around you, sure reveals great disgust that exposes much ugly of presence into our daily life and we haven’t even gone to box office to buy that R rated movies ticket.
Just saying, don’t look too deep into those “spices of life” for any great meaning to existence. Those “spices” here as drugs. For it is blood, the addition of fresh, new food consumed to make that blood that will give sustaining change to body, mentally and physically.
Peace
-------------------- Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!! Eye was thinking the other day... ahh, thinking never done me no good.
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pacmanbreed


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 3,829
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Orioncat]
#28656659 - 02/12/24 11:44 AM (4 months, 10 days ago) |
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was tinkering about this lately, having to take a break unfortunately even on (cultivating them w/c is fun(fulfilling)) after a traumatizing trip, I feel like I need to learn more how to integrate. Just like I 'LABEL' & consider an unexpected bad dream I had yesterday, Upon waking-up saying to myself wtf was that about, that I'm considering to ACCEPT it fully just as is(neither good or bad) but a reason.
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Skropi
Space Ritual


Registered: 11/01/23
Posts: 414
Loc: Greece
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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I have no delusions that psychedelics can show us any hidden, cosmic meaning. They just allow us to deal with past trauma more easily, as we can distance ourselves from the fact. At least that is how I see it. Oh, btw I don't pay for doctors and therapists here, we do have public health, so we can have free access to it. It is not without problems of course, but at least, someone needing help, doesn't need to have money in order to get it. But I agree, I am against meds, not because I am against science, purely because I want to know that if I am well, and feeling good, it is not because of a substance, that I will need to use again and again, but because it is completely real and permanent. The only thing that could convince me to get meds, would be if I was unable to take care of my son without them. Which I hope isn't the case.
-------------------- Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον
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WhoManBeing
PsychedelicYogi



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 3,861
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Skropi]
#28656691 - 02/12/24 12:05 PM (4 months, 10 days ago) |
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Won’t be the case.
Communication between you and your son and you fulfilling the role of father is all need be to caring for your son.
-------------------- Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!! Eye was thinking the other day... ahh, thinking never done me no good.
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Skropi
Space Ritual


Registered: 11/01/23
Posts: 414
Loc: Greece
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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Quote:
pacmanbreed said: was tinkering about this lately, having to take a break unfortunately even on (cultivating them w/c is fun(fulfilling)) after a traumatizing trip, I feel like I need to learn more how to integrate. Just like I 'LABEL' & consider an unexpected bad dream I had yesterday, Upon waking-up saying to myself wtf was that about, that I'm considering to ACCEPT it fully just as is(neither good or bad) but a reason.
Mate, I am vaping weed daily, nice, potent weed. So no dreams for me, except if I vape too little a quantity, and enough time passes from dosing to sleep, and even then, it is not like it used to be, and it may happen once every 2-3 months. I feel only hate for weed, nicotine, alcohol, and every and all addictions right now. I can't help but feel enslaved. The only thing I respect, from substances, not love or hate, just respect, is psilocybin.
-------------------- Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον
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Skropi
Space Ritual


Registered: 11/01/23
Posts: 414
Loc: Greece
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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I probably won't have to get meds, I believe this, based on a first assessment of a psychiatrist. I am not fearful of them, I just don't want to substitute one substance with another.
-------------------- Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον
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tree frog
eats bugs



Registered: 09/14/23
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Re: What is a bad trip? [Re: Skropi] 2
#28656742 - 02/12/24 12:33 PM (4 months, 10 days ago) |
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For me the difference between a bad trip and a difficult one is psychosis.
When anxiety gets high we all can have paranoid episodes. Full on audio hallucinations etc.
Difficult trips can be integrated. Bad ones, not so much because it's just confusion. But, a difficult trip can lead to a bad one without good supports. And then you have to unpack what's worth integrating and what was just the psychotic episode.
That last bit can take a long time to sort out if it happens at all.
Mostly what I carry from my bad trips that I find valuable is be more careful with set and setting.
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Edited by tree frog (02/12/24 12:42 PM)
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