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Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Quotes Discussion * 2
    #28655435 - 02/11/24 12:13 PM (4 months, 12 days ago)

This was mentioned earlier and I thought to make a thread plus for an anything goes within the forum intent. As much my doing the Agency thread went random with it so now it has a home. :heart:

The original idea of the thread was seeing the sticky'd greatest spiritual quotes thread, as that is not presumably, generally meant for discussion but just quotes, spinvis and I were entertaining ways to have discussion of the quotes, so this can be for quotes posted here, there, and thoughts around them.

There are suggestions given like an example of giving or asking, and answering for sources etc. Please feel free to elaborate whoever wants to add anything. 


Edited by syncro (02/12/24 09:27 AM)

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Invisiblespinvis
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28656340 - 02/12/24 03:37 AM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Is this the same as what we discussed via PM a while ago? A place to ask questions about quotes and discuss the quotes posted?

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: spinvis] * 1
    #28656347 - 02/12/24 03:47 AM (4 months, 11 days ago)

:yes::yesnod:

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28656519 - 02/12/24 09:29 AM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Op is edited to try and clarify. :awesomenod:

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28658190 - 02/13/24 09:54 AM (4 months, 10 days ago)

Lithop's Taoist quote:



=

'Someone not proficient in the use of a machine cannot expect to gain full advantage of the machine's productive capability.'

....

Someone not proficient in meditation then, cannot expect to realize it's full advantages.

Etc

Edited by Buster_Brown (02/13/24 09:57 AM)

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28658219 - 02/13/24 10:15 AM (4 months, 10 days ago)

Spinvis' quote:

Ananda, if you wish to bring your seeing, hearing, feeling and knowing into line with the Tathagata’s absolute Eternity, Bliss, Self and Purity, you should first pick out the root of birth and death"-

What?

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: Buster_Brown] * 2
    #28658225 - 02/13/24 10:18 AM (4 months, 10 days ago)

I partly want to say right means will help the wrong man, but it is seen paths are taken and effect different people uniquely if at all. If the wrong man has some attitude of surrender and sincerity to that degree he can benefit. On the other side, any exposure greatly benefits, like with the guy who kicked and cursed a Shiva murtim all night, being treed by a pack of wolves, which happened to be the holy night of Shivaratri, and was liberated due to his devoted attention.

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28658303 - 02/13/24 11:23 AM (4 months, 10 days ago)

I found this:



From that site:

"The root of birth and death becomes bound into a knot from which you cannot escape. What is it? It is nothing but a trick of your eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, and mind. These six bring about your death and your birth"


Edited by Buster_Brown (02/13/24 11:45 AM)

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28658426 - 02/13/24 01:03 PM (4 months, 10 days ago)

I've been thinking that recently, around what are the authorities in gnostic terms etc though it may imply something further, but the senses.

Edited by syncro (02/13/24 01:04 PM)

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28658454 - 02/13/24 01:22 PM (4 months, 10 days ago)



The six senses cloud the mind...

"Enlightenment is (pure and) unmixed; and its manifestations are not of the nature of klesa*, but are in accord with the immaculate virtues of Nirvana."

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28658512 - 02/13/24 02:22 PM (4 months, 10 days ago)

"The six senses cloud the mind..." I thought of the question on, "first pick out the root" in that the senses at the root are not of klesas but sattvic, sourced in light as it were.

But the meditation does tend to shut out the visual function that seems more physically based.

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28658973 - 02/13/24 09:07 PM (4 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

But whenever you hide yourselves,
    I myself will appear.
For whenever you appear,
    I myself will hide from you.




The Thunder, Perfect Mind, Nag Hammadi

Quote:

I am the utterance of my name.




Interesting find. I was looking for a quote in the Gnostic Library about "walking upon the authorities under thy feet", something like that, related to the hierarchy discussion.

Edited by syncro (02/13/24 09:29 PM)

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28659337 - 02/14/24 08:23 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

"the senses cloud the mind"

So we shut them down in the samyamas (concentration...) etc, or otherwise seek to take them to source or sattva.

I thought also of this beautiful way in tree frog's post of Dogen, also seems hinted in spinvis', The Keiso Dokuzui.

Dogen
Quote:

To carry the self forward and illuminate myriad dharmas is delusion. That myriad dharmas come forth and illuminate the self is enlightenment.





Tozan Ryokai's Verses on the Five Ranks
Quote:

The experiencing of the manifold dharmas through using oneself is delusion; the experiencing of oneself through the coming of the manifold dharmas is satori.




What does it mean to me? All phenomena are the rising of enlightenment.

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28659372 - 02/14/24 09:09 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

A high obstacle - how to see enlightenment in dukkha? Perhaps it cannot be done in volition.

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28659594 - 02/14/24 12:36 PM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Perhaps it cannot be done in volition.




That's why hindsight is 20/20 for the enlightened perhaps.

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: Buster_Brown] * 5
    #28659619 - 02/14/24 01:05 PM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Re: senses cloud the mind

A quote from Xia Jia I came across:

"Lindy, do you know why you're unhappy? It's because you think too much. Consider these wild seeds (dandelions) They have souls also but they don't think at all. All they care about is dancing with their companions in joy. They couldn't care less where they're blown by the wind."

Reported by the same author:

"Blase Pascal said, "Man is only a reed, the weakest in nature, but he is a thinking reed." However, if reeds could think, what a terrifying existence that would be. A strong wind would fell all the reeds. If they were to worry about such a fate, how would they be able to dance?"

Reminds me of the passage in John II, 'Have you come to see a reed blown by the wind?' - Ah yes, the music of reed nstruments.

Edited by Buster_Brown (02/14/24 01:19 PM)

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28659729 - 02/14/24 03:08 PM (4 months, 9 days ago)

"All they care about is dancing with their companions in joy."

I've been recalling that, the one care.

Again as adornments of awareness-emptiness, dukkha, phenomena are not so recognized.

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Invisiblespinvis
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #28661552 - 02/16/24 03:07 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Lithop's Taoist quote:



=

'Someone not proficient in the use of a machine cannot expect to gain full advantage of the machine's productive capability.'

....

Someone not proficient in meditation then, cannot expect to realize it's full advantages.

Etc



I highly recommend you to give Jiddu Krishnamurti a try, and listen to his various talks and explanations on what meditation is, and then discover for yourself what it is. Here's a little snip from one of his talks;

Quote:

Without meditation, there is no self-knowledge; without self-knowledge, there is no meditation. So you must begin to know what you are. You cannot go far without beginning near, without understanding your daily process of thought, feeling, and action. In other words, thought must understand its own working, and when you see yourself in operation, you will observe that thought moves from the known to the known. You cannot think about the unknown. That which you know is not real because what you know is only in time. To be free from the net of time is the important concern, not to think about the unknown, because you cannot think about the unknown. The answers to your prayers are of the known. To receive the unknown, the mind itself must become the unknown. The mind is the result of the thought process, the result of time, and this thought process must come to an end. The mind cannot think of that which is eternal, timeless; therefore, the mind must be free of time, the time process of the mind must be dissolved. Only when the mind is completely free from yesterday, and is therefore not using the present as a means to the future, is it capable of receiving the eternal…. Therefore, our concern in meditation is to know oneself, not only superficially, but the whole content of the inner, hidden consciousness. Without knowing all that and being free of its conditioning, you cannot possibly go beyond the mind’s limits. That is why the thought process must cease, and for this cessation there must be knowledge of oneself. Therefore meditation is the beginning of wisdom, which is the understanding of one’s own mind and heart.



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Invisiblespinvis
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28661556 - 02/16/24 03:17 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

I feel you guys have sufficiently progressed in this question, so unless there's still a question lingering there, I'll leave it be.

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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Quotes Discussion [Re: spinvis] * 1
    #28661699 - 02/16/24 07:01 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

"If the wrong man uses the right means, the right means work in the wrong way."

Taoist wisdom.




At first I thought this was saying the means won't work with the wrong man, but then that it is saying they will work, like "magic adapts to the user, and the user to it."

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