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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,047
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Transgender hate 3
#28651595 - 02/08/24 11:57 AM (4 months, 15 days ago) |
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A trans friend was assaulted yesterday.
I just read a high school student is under police protection in Utah after a school board member questioned the student's gender.
Why is there so much hate towards trans people?
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sudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,775
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 3
#28651609 - 02/08/24 12:11 PM (4 months, 15 days ago) |
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Because it confuses people to question their own sexuality.
Plus it's hard to empathise with the genuine feeling of gender dysphoria, to truly understand how genuinely people see themselves and their gender, regardless of biological sex.
It's hard to believe that a beautiful woman believes whole heartedly in his gender as a man and vice versa. Especially to the point of a breast removal surgery. But for many in those boots, it's true, and they're happier for it going through a transition.
Florida's new laws are insane, to be able to arrest someone for 'fraud' if a police officer disagrees with the gender displayed by their ID? Batshit I say.
Quote:
Trans Floridians can no longer change gender on driver's license
Amid what one critic called "an ongoing campaign to make Florida uninhabitable and unsafe for transgender individuals," Gov. Ron DeSantis' administration quietly reversed a policy that allowed Floridians to obtain driver's licenses that reflected their gender identity.
Robert Kynoch, deputy executive director of the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, on Friday sent a memo outlining the changes to county tax collectors, who process driver's licenses and state identification cards. The memo said that allowing people to change their gender on licenses and ID cards runs afoul of state law because gender "has historically been understood as a synonym for 'sex,' which is determined by innate and immutable biological and genetic characteristics."
In addition, a driver's license "is an identification document and, as such, serves a critical role in assisting public and private entities in correctly establishing the identity of a person presenting the license," Kynoch wrote.
"Permitting an individual to alter his or her license to reflect an internal sense of gender role or identity, which is neither immutable nor objectively verifiable, undermines the purpose of an identification record and can frustrate the state's ability to enforce its laws," he added.
The memo also warned that "misrepresenting one's gender, understood as sex, on a driver license constitutes fraud ... and subjects an offender to criminal and civil penalties, including cancellation, suspension, or revocation of his or her driver's license."
"Florida Republicans' obsession with trans people has to stop," said Florida Democrat Party Chair Nikki Fried. "Instead of addressing our raging property insurance crisis or out-of-control rent hikes, the GOP continues to pursue blatantly transphobic policies to serve their made-up culture wars. Erasing and criminalizing trans people is absolutely disgusting and can't be allowed to stand.
"We've seen state agencies continually weaponized under Ron DeSantis, and this rule change at DHSMV serves the same purpose as the rest - allowing right-wing extremists to get the wildly unpopular policies they want without having to go on the record as voting for them."
https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/trans-floridians-can-no-longer-change-gender-on-drivers-license/
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (02/08/24 12:20 PM)
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Kmacmo
The aborted pin



Registered: 08/14/19
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Central hemisphere
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 2
#28651662 - 02/08/24 01:01 PM (4 months, 15 days ago) |
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I've never met a trans person so I definitely don't hate them but the whole thing does confuse me abit. It seems like gender/sex is the only thing people say is wrong about their body. Why don't we see people claiming to have 6 eyes or 3 legs or the wrong eye colour? Or even trans species people where are the trans species people? If you can transition parts of your body then why don't blind people just identify as having 20/20 vision. I mean if your going to transition to something else then why not give yourself an advantage/improvement like saying you have a 10 inch penis?
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Kmacmo] 1
#28651718 - 02/08/24 02:10 PM (4 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kmacmo said: I've never met a trans person so I definitely don't hate them but the whole thing does confuse me abit. It seems like gender/sex is the only thing people say is wrong about their body. Why don't we see people claiming to have 6 eyes or 3 legs or the wrong eye colour? Or even trans species people where are the trans species people? If you can transition parts of your body then why don't blind people just identify as having 20/20 vision. I mean if your going to transition to something else then why not give yourself an advantage/improvement like saying you have a 10 inch penis?
For my friend they said it was a huge improvement because they finally felt at peace with themselves. At the same time they became a target for hate. They've been harassed many times. They say its worth it.
You may or even likely have met trans people and simply did not know it.
Its pretty common for people to obsess about their bodies. I think cosmetic surgery is one of the most competitive internships for doctors. I'm not sure a 10 inch penis would be advantageous
Edited by Freedom (02/08/24 02:11 PM)
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sudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,775
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Kmacmo] 1
#28652899 - 02/09/24 01:40 PM (4 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kmacmo said: I've never met a trans person so I definitely don't hate them but the whole thing does confuse me abit. It seems like gender/sex is the only thing people say is wrong about their body. Why don't we see people claiming to have 6 eyes or 3 legs or the wrong eye colour? Or even trans species people where are the trans species people? If you can transition parts of your body then why don't blind people just identify as having 20/20 vision. I mean if your going to transition to something else then why not give yourself an advantage/improvement like saying you have a 10 inch penis?
One transman I know was uncomfortable with feminine features, he removed his breasts, began hormone therapy and now looks like a proper lumberjack.
He didn't want 6 eyes, he wanted more relatively masculine features.
I get being confused about removing your c cup breasts for sure, but I think it's a little disingenuous to bring up 6 eyes etc.
The mental gender of the person is either male or female, and the transition is to allow their features to follow. For a more accurate representation of mental space.
I know it's hard to believe people actually believe they themselves are different genders and all that, and there surely are some sappy fads that attention seeking asswipes whine about, but there's a huge portion of people who truly and genuinely embody a different gender to their biological sex, and are much happier for it.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Peopleschoice
Novice Shroom grower

Registered: 12/23/23
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 1
#28654615 - 02/10/24 07:28 PM (4 months, 13 days ago) |
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I think a lot of it comes down to how much transgender people push their ideology onto others. I don't care what others do with their own lives. I personally am disgusted by it but can see why people do it and think they should be able to do whatever they like with their bodies.
It's not unreasonable to say I wouldn't date a transgender. A lot of people who support transgenders and openly support them say that is wrong. But is it really wrong to not want to fuck a dude or a girl that looks like a dude... no.
So I never agree with violence because of someones personal choices when they don't affect anyone else. It's wrong.
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smokedtrolli
Prologue



Registered: 04/01/19
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 3
#28654685 - 02/10/24 08:34 PM (4 months, 13 days ago) |
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I am open to discussion, feel free to pick apart what I'm saying.
The issue I see with the topic of transgenderism of course relates to children and how we identify truth.
I couldn't give a flying fuck about what an adult chooses to do with their body. As a result I'm not going to persecute you for it or attempt to humiliate you in a social context. What I may feel or express about you in privacy is different and not your concern. The thing is though, if I see a 999 normal looking bananas, and then I see one banana that is purple and is shaped like a loop-the-loop, my brain says "this is irregular; aberrant". This is a bit of a simplification but hopefully the idea I'm communicating makes sense. Nonetheless, the same applies to when I encounter someone who is transgender. Immediately they register as a deviation from the norm. I can't control that. I'll treat you with respect, but I cannot change that perception of you.
When you deviate from the norm, chances are you're going to face some condemnation for it. In some cases, what you're doing is counter-culture and maybe becomes the new norm or is celebrated. But in the cases where you are being shamed, that can have two outcomes. You either double down and live with it, or change your behavior to fit the most dominating expectations (and sometimes this works in your favor, because I think most of us can reflect on things we once did that now make us feeling loathing or embarrassment).
So that would be my first point; there is nothing normal about being transgender at all. I don't think that can be changed.
My second point is more practical I think, and less arguable, although it is the crux of the matter.
Following through with hormone treatment clearly has effects that are presently irreversible. For trans advocates however, most seem to suggest that the earlier this transition is done, the better, as I guess the effects will be more pronounced if done during puberty?
Is anyone really going to say that children are able to make that decision for themselves? A completely permanent life altering decision when you are barely in puberty? No backpedaling? It's just asinine IMO.
Reality is, science and technology do not permit us, at this time, to alter our sex and wind up with a fully functional system. Compromises must be made. Sadly, these compromises relate to reproductive ability and genitalia, which are to many, fundamental aspects of their lives, and for the unfortunate people that regret their transition for whatever reason, they have to live with that forever. I feel for those people. Seriously.
The other facet of this topic as it has to do with children is their exposure to it. Why does it need to be in schools? Why? Why? Why? Isn't it odd that we have supposedly collectively decided that certain aspects of our worldview, we're just going to leave up to a curriculum devised by people we don't really know, or at best, the thoughts of a "teacher" who is just another person that is again, a part of that system? I grew up in the 2000s and at that time it wasn't in schools from what I remember. That doesn't mean I never encountered a trans person before out at a grocery store or wherever and had no opportunity to form any thoughts about it.
Admittedly, I have never dealt with gender dysphoria so I can't speak on that. Briefly, as a child, I wore my mother's sandals and heels I guess because I was a kid doing stupid shit. Of course, people in my life found it weird. Just like any other thing a kid does, I gauged the reactions of people around me and that influenced my behavior, and I stopped doing it. Am I in living in a deficit now because I can't wear women's heels? No, if I was so dead-set on doing it, I would be doing it in private, or I'd face the fact that I'd be an outcast doing it in public and accept that. But parading around calling everyone else who finds it weird a piece of shit, trying to convince people I'm normal for doing that, and expecting the world to conform around a strange predilection I have for women's footwear would be absurd.
I don't think assault is the right answer but I can understand people feeling very strongly about this issue especially if they have children or are invested in the topic. Highschool for the most part is a fucking clown show though and teenagers are going to do dirt bag shit. Somehow lots of them still haven't developed empathy.
Some never will.
-------------------- Money is too valuable to be moral.
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Kmacmo
The aborted pin



Registered: 08/14/19
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Central hemisphere
Last seen: 5 days, 17 hours
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: sudly]
#28656827 - 02/12/24 01:20 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
One transman I know was uncomfortable with feminine features, he removed his breasts, began hormone therapy and now looks like a proper lumberjack.
He didn't want 6 eyes, he wanted more relatively masculine features.
I get being confused about removing your c cup breasts for sure, but I think it's a little disingenuous to bring up 6 eyes etc.
I'm not being disingenuous I was just using the 6 eyes 3 legs as an example. If it is actually possible to be born as the 'wrong' sex/gender then why don't we have people who are born with the wrong amount of fingers or the wrong skin colour? If there are transgender people then surely there should be some transfinger and transpigment people?
If I was religious then I would ask myself how is it possible that God can make a mistake in his creations? But because I'm not religious I assume there is actually nothing wrong with those creations they are what they are meant to be. There is nothing wrong with what you are born as how can it be possible to be born as a mistake excluding mental/physical illness/deformations of course.
So what I'm saying is if there is something actually 'wrong' with you then it's not your sex or gender it has to be a mental problem rather than a physical one?
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
Posts: 595
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom]
#28656889 - 02/12/24 02:05 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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When I’m sitting in meditation and creating more space between interpretive language and my self identity what is there that identifies myself as man? No thing.
I would encourage one to start a good ‘self’ discovery process through mindfulness practice before going under the knife to manipulate one’s exterior physical identity.
I believe that is a more sustainable solution overall for one’s mental health with consistent peace and joy throughout life. At least that’s been my experience talking to others and also my own experience with the dissatisfactions I feel towards my physical and mental self.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,502
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 2
#28657086 - 02/12/24 04:22 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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It is always cruel to me to be mean, insulting, and/or violent to a person because you agree or disagree with how they choose to live their own life.
Hurts my heart. I will never accept mean, cruel behavior towards someone for living different then you.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,819
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Freedom] 3
#28657095 - 02/12/24 04:32 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said:
Why is there so much hate towards trans people?
Society as it is is highly frustrating. Because of that, we have a large percentage of people who want to screw with other people and make them feel as bad as possible.
They pick an excuse and bombs away.
its your race, you're too fat, too thin, you're a faggot, hating on women, hating on men, hating the short, the tall the young the old.. and trans people.
If you're a mentally sound minority in the US, get a gun because they're going to elect Trump again and the hate will multiply and intensify because society isnt getting easier and the easy way out is coming down hard on someone who isn't you.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
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Quote:
cubedryeguy said: I would encourage one to start a good ‘self’ discovery process through mindfulness practice before going under the knife to manipulate one’s exterior physical identity.
What is your threshold here? I mean, I'm guessing you're not opposed to surgery for medical problems in general.
Removing wisdom teeth is kind of a modern marvel for quality of life. But it's not necessary nor is it particularly life threatening to leave them in. But if they are painful, should someone try to work on their relationship to pain first? Pain varies from person to person and has lots of mental aspects to it. Meditation has been shown to impact the relationship to pain. So should everyone meditate before having their wisdom teeth out?
I'm legitimately curious on your stance here and where, if anywhere, your thinking shifts and you turn towards: in this case, surgery to alleviate suffering makes a lot of sense.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,047
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
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Quote:
Peopleschoice said: I think a lot of it comes down to how much transgender people push their ideology onto others.
I've never heard of a trans person trying to convince a cis person that they are trans. I've never even heard of it described as an ideology.
Quote:
Peopleschoice said: I don't care what others do with their own lives. I personally am disgusted by it but can see why people do it and think they should be able to do whatever they like with their bodies.
It's not unreasonable to say I wouldn't date a transgender. A lot of people who support transgenders and openly support them say that is wrong. But is it really wrong to not want to fuck a dude or a girl that looks like a dude... no.
So I never agree with violence because of someones personal choices when they don't affect anyone else. It's wrong.
its fine to be attracted to who you are and not to who you aren't
I would question what's behind that feeling of disgust.
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
Posts: 595
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Kickle]
#28657279 - 02/12/24 06:37 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Firstly I never said I was against any sort of medical procedures, including cosmetic surgeries. In the end if that is what somebody chooses then that’s their choice.
And yes I agree, meditation certainly has a way of transforming our relationship towards pain, both mental and physical.
So yes I would say incorporating daily meditation practices in one’s life will alleviate both mental and, potentially, shift how we view and relate to our physical ailments.
Personally when I was going through severe body dysmorphia I did contemplate cosmetic surgery. I also had friends that went through cosmetic surgeries. Long story short after other life situations that involved some deep suffering I got ‘serious’ about implementing mindfulness techniques into my daily routine including sitting meditation.
That by far has helped alleviate a tremendous amount of my own self created suffering in life. I’ve also witnessed the benefits in others going through severe life trauma.
It’s also helped with my physical ailments. But don’t get me wrong if I need a tooth pulled I’m getting it pulled. YMMV.
But more important to the topic on hand hearing about hate and violence towards people is heart saddening. I’ve never been in a physical altercation and would only do so if it’s the very last option to protect my loved ones. Diplomacy through words is rare but beautiful.
TLDR: peace and love to you all
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Huh I must not have conveyed the question well. Maybe next time
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
Posts: 595
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Kickle]
#28657338 - 02/12/24 07:19 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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You asked my threshold. Personally I get medical procedures done when they are necessary to my life. For physical pain management which has no serious underlying medical condition I don’t go to the doctor. I’m not sure how severe it would have to be until I would go.
For severe mental pain I told you my threshold and what actions I took to alleviate it.
What did I miss?
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
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when they are necessary to my life.
I guess this is the part I'm still not clear on your threshold for. I honestly don't know what you consider necessary to your life or how you make such a determination. I used wisdom teeth as a starting point to try and gauge this because with or without removal they aren't life threatening. They can stay where they are just fine and for most of human history people dealt with it, with or without meditation.
So in asking what I thought was a relatively neutral question I was hoping to see a weathervane for which way you lean in circumstances where one can move in multiple non-conflicting directions.
Meditate and remove Meditate and don't remove Don't meditate and remove Don't meditate and don't remove
All are viable and no one will judge you any which way I don't think? I certainly don't see it come up as a big social dilemma.
Still, I think the majority of people, whether meditators or not, remove their wisdom teeth if given the option. So this must bias the question. So I concluded, maybe next time [I will convey neutrality better]
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
Posts: 595
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Re: Transgender hate [Re: Kickle] 1
#28657410 - 02/12/24 07:51 PM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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I see a ‘necessary’ procedure as one that would save my physical life. I still have my wisdom teeth as they’ve never given me a reason to remove them. I have many pains throughout my body that might be alleviated through surgical procedures but as you’ve stated I have a different relationship with my pain through meditation.
For others that are deciding on a medical procedure that’s not a life or death situation then that is their decision. But I would absolutely recommend meditation first for what seems to me to be more of a mental torture/suffering. In the end if we are trying to alleviate mental suffering then meditation would be a great start and is much more sustainable.
But I personally have no issue with what people do to their bodies, I just don’t think those procedures are as beneficial in the long run to one’s mental health as meditation would be. Hence my recommendation.
Is that any clearer? Not trying to be rude just thought I stated my position clear enough. If not I’m willing to continue to try.
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
Posts: 595
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And in any case thanks for the enjoyable conversation
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
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Oh, much clearer for what I was wondering. Thanks for answering.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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