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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Experiences are... (3 Proposals) * 2
    #28644518 - 02/02/24 08:13 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Here are three proposals that are meant to be taken together, as a collaborative unit:

Quote:

Proposal 1: Experiences are unrepeatable. This is because the infinite creativity and flux of the universe does not allow repeats. To do otherwise would open the possibility of getting caged forever in a single experience.



:cheer:

Quote:

Proposal 2: Experiences are meant to be digested. Another way of saying this is: experiences are meant to be FULLY EXPERIENCED. This allows them to be released into a new experience. Furthermore, the time it takes to experience an experience is illusory.



:etjesus:

Quote:

Proposal 3: Experiences are meant to be extended. This means that upon completion, the elements of an experience are re-arranged, as well as added to, so that the new experience is a "step forward" that preserves the legacy of the former experience by being "what came of it;" but it is also entirely unique and "special," and itself unrepeatable.



:vineclimb:

And yes, this is intended to apply to MINE and YOUR experiences.

Thoughts/reactions? This is a spontaneous outflow of ideas while stoned, so feel free to pick it apart.


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 1
    #28644590 - 02/02/24 09:11 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

It is all true with the caveat that the phrase "are meant to" is better when replaced  with "are naturally are followed by" and changing the verb from infinitive to gerund
eg."to be digested " change to " by being digested "
etc.
it is the nature of experience -> becoming memory -> enriching experience & also -> becoming memory.
and it is a natural effect upon time when moments of experience are extended (by emotion, drug, trance, or dreams) as this extends the fade-out time of each moment of experience.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28644717 - 02/03/24 01:52 AM (3 months, 13 days ago)

when all molds for experience are put aside, awareness is what persists!

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OnlineBuster_Brown
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28644780 - 02/03/24 04:05 AM (3 months, 13 days ago)

It seems to me the point is in the last- the prolonging of the orgasm in tan-trick sex- in service to your partner.

I'm aware of my failings in that regimen and question whether prolonged orgasms provide the level of satisfaction induced by a more selfish approach to the union.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #28644871 - 02/03/24 07:02 AM (3 months, 13 days ago)

the meaning can be stretched to cover that too, but I think it is more about things less charged with urgency that can become more beautiful by lingering and branching out


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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28644960 - 02/03/24 08:37 AM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Wow very cool responses!

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
It is all true with the caveat that the phrase "are meant to" is better when replaced  with "are naturally are followed by" and changing the verb from infinitive to gerund
eg."to be digested " change to " by being digested "
etc.
it is the nature of experience -> becoming memory -> enriching experience & also -> becoming memory.
and it is a natural effect upon time when moments of experience are extended (by emotion, drug, trance, or dreams) as this extends the fade-out time of each moment of experience.




Nice catch, I thought about changing the phrase "are meant to" but left it in, something about the idea that WHO WE REALLY ARE is that which is "meaning things to be a certain way." I think part of the point of this exercise is coming from a subjective POV of "the experiencer" who is also "the creator" of their experiences. The POV that your rephrase implies more of an observer, which is equally valid, just a different POV.


Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
when all molds for experience are put aside, awareness is what persists!




Maybe there is an oscillation between pure/unadulterated awareness and the experience of manifest reality? And maybe that is an intrinsic/essential aspect of the process of experiences extending themselves, by reaching back into the primacy of awareness...


Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
It seems to me the point is in the last- the prolonging of the orgasm in tan-trick sex- in service to your partner.

I'm aware of my failings in that regimen and question whether prolonged orgasms provide the level of satisfaction induced by a more selfish approach to the union.




Well, but even if you climax quickly and copulation ends, that entire event still informs future copulations which COULD BE enriched by that quickie. Quickies have their own excitement and a surrender to the animalistic instinct. But if they become the norm, you could (would?) get bored and start to explore variations including increasing the duration. I am currently in a lengthy period of chosen celibacy, and one of the perks is I appreciate not agonizing over my performance etc etc LOL.


Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the meaning can be stretched to cover that too, but I think it is more about things less charged with urgency that can become more beautiful by lingering and branching out




I really like this. It's as if, by becoming aware of the natural enrichment of experience, we can better facilitate and enjoy the process. Like we are cultivators and stewards of experience.


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28646136 - 02/04/24 08:28 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
when all molds for experience are put aside, awareness is what persists!




Maybe there is an oscillation between pure/unadulterated awareness and the experience of manifest reality? And maybe that is an intrinsic/essential aspect of the process of experiences extending themselves, by reaching back into the primacy of awareness...





can G-d form a precise mental image of Himself?

the mind is a closed system that operates as an open system due to the duality of its nature, as does the universe! the mind has a cosmic duality as an imposed function of consciousness!

one can expand one's consciousness to include everything or annihilate it to experience nothing.  by incorporating experiences that are adultered, formalizations can be incorporated and in that, there is an unconscious awareness they that those forms were inadequate to exist by themselves.  this is a step towards both including everything and annhilating it!

with two spheres, one expanding and the other contracting inwards, where they meet and merge, zero is infinity, and nothing is everything.  an experience, as an Absolute experience itself, requires both expanding and annhilating of consciousness at the same time!

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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #28646654 - 02/04/24 05:08 PM (3 months, 11 days ago)

^A lot to digest there... I'll take it point by point:

- I don't think the Creator would want to form a precise image of him/herself (if you mean a replica), because that would be redundant and unfulfilling. The Creator wants to... CREATE. Make that which is NEW.

-What do you mean when you say "the mind is a closed system"?

-I like your third point. Definitely the forms are "inadequate to exist by themselves" as you put it. Also, is what you are saying about "including everything and annihilating it" akin to the idea of being aware of both the Oneness and Multiplicity of All That Is?

And your fourth point seems to be related to the third. To be fun: within this model of spheres expanding and contracting, could there be more than two spheres? Many undulating spheres of various frequencies of wave-form? And maybe ultra-rare instances of many of them (or all) meeting together, a kind of grand conjunction...


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28647546 - 02/05/24 11:51 AM (3 months, 10 days ago)

yes, that oneness is both all and nothing, and unthinkable, bc it is seeing as both one and many.

the fundamental thing about G-d is not what you think about Him!  thinking it is redundant and unfulfilling is a limited perspective, bc G-d Himself it is not!  this comes back to the inadequacy! 

if you can never step in the same river twice, then every thought can be considered “new.”  if you are standing in a room that is perfectly circular with mirrors for walls, and you shine a light, a single ray of light, in a random direction, will the light ever return to its original position, the single point where the light originated from?  if so, will it return to its position an infinite amount of times or a definite amount of times?  will it ever return to its original position in the original direction?

the human mind is in a 3d/4d closed system as it experiences a transference of time, but that time is a finite limited eternity.  humans have non-deterministic free will within a deterministic period of time called life.  that is not to say that consciousness does that extend beyond the mind, but that extension is also into dimensions which humans do not physically occupy.

the two spheres in the model are dimensional representations, however, along the sphere, there wld be dots, many viewpoints, which with an added dimension can be thought of as a sphere on the sphere.  this is an added dimensionality, and is also fractal in nature.  mathmathemically speaking, looking at pi as infinite, yet envisioned by a finite number of points along the tangent to the curve, each point represents a seemingly infinite although finite probable outcome to its unique reality. 

the more a view is shared with other points, it may experience a reality bleed-through, resulting in a consciousness sharing.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28647603 - 02/05/24 12:49 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Experiences are unrepeatable.

Unknowable. A repeated experience does not necessitate an unending loop. It may just indicate a repeat of circumstances. Change the circumstances, experiential loop ended.

Experiences are meant to be digested

How would one know they've digested an experience? Can one not digest an experience? What enables digestion or indigestion?

Experiences are meant to be extended.

This may just be loopy. In the classic illustration of a 2D character walking in a straight line on a rolled paper and not realizing it has ended up right back where it began as 3D space curved.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Kickle]
    #28647610 - 02/05/24 12:55 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

consume -> digest
hmmm,
consume -> digest -> poop !


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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28647653 - 02/05/24 01:36 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Experiences are unrepeatable.

Unknowable. A repeated experience does not necessitate an unending loop. It may just indicate a repeat of circumstances. Change the circumstances, experiential loop ended.

Experiences are meant to be digested

How would one know they've digested an experience? Can one not digest an experience? What enables digestion or indigestion?

Experiences are meant to be extended.

This may just be loopy. In the classic illustration of a 2D character walking in a straight line on a rolled paper and not realizing it has ended up right back where it began as 3D space curved.




I guess I was supposing that if an experience could truly be repeated, and was identical, then that WOULD necessitate an unending loop because it would imply that it is a closed system without any new input that could budge it out of the loop. But in reality, there are no truly closed systems, which forces all experiences to continually evolve. Sometimes it SEEMS like we are having the same experience, but this is an illusion - a memory or a “flashback” seems to replicate a past experience, for instance, but it doesn’t truly do that because there is a new context surrounding the flashback.

This is good news for those suffering from trauma - it seems to them that they are stuck in the past, but they aren’t, not truly.



Quote:

redgreenvines said:
consume -> digest
hmmm,
consume -> digest -> poop !




Beautiful 🤩 💩

I guess the digestion issue begs the question… are experiences seamlessly changing (like one big octopus endlessly undulating), or are there clear thresholds and demarcations that distinguish them, like stages of digestion. For instance, integrating (digesting) a psychedelic experience could result in a concrete behavioral change (e.g. stopping smoking), which would be the POOP 💩 💩

Regarding walking around a curved space and ending up where you started - I am proposing this is impossible. If I walk around the Earth and end up back in the same town, that town has meanwhile been altered to have different people in different configurations, different weather, everything is “older,” and not to mention the entire solar system and galaxy had moved position, too.


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #28647662 - 02/05/24 01:42 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

if you are standing in a room that is perfectly circular with mirrors for walls, and you shine a light, a single ray of light, in a random direction, will the light ever return to its original position, the single point where the light originated from?  if so, will it return to its position an infinite amount of times or a definite amount of times?  will it ever return to its original position in the original direction?




Beautiful. I’m picturing a spherical room in this case.

Makes me think of Alan Watt’s description of Indra’s Net:

"Imagine a multidimensional spider's web in the early morning covered with dew drops. And every dew drop contains the reflection of all the other dew drops. And, in each reflected dew drop, the reflections of all the other dew drops in that reflection. And so ad infinitum. That is the Buddhist conception of the universe in an image." – Alan Watts


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28647678 - 02/05/24 02:04 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

I think proposal 1 is especially lucid. Nothing is ever exactly the same. Second time around can't be the first.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28647699 - 02/05/24 02:33 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

But in reality, there are no truly closed system

You must have more information than I do. The universe is way too massive for me to proclaim such things with what I consider incredibly limited recall.

And for that reason I will stick with unknowable as my rebuttal.


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Kickle]
    #28647723 - 02/05/24 02:47 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

well then would you believe in rgv's principle of leaky airtightness, through which closed systems open randomly (just keeding)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28647861 - 02/05/24 04:36 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

I would say if experience is not complete, it is silly to project it outward as if it were. If one thinks experience is complete, it sounds like an argument for a closed system.


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Kickle]
    #28647990 - 02/05/24 07:05 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
I would say if experience is not complete, it is silly to project it outward as if it were. If one thinks experience is complete, it sounds like an argument for a closed system.




In this framework, they are never complete - that's why they are continually digested/experienced and then extended.


Quote:

Kickle said:
But in reality, there are no truly closed system

You must have more information than I do. The universe is way too massive for me to proclaim such things with what I consider incredibly limited recall.

And for that reason I will stick with unknowable as my rebuttal.




I hope I don't sound like I'm proclaiming. Just proposing based on a hunch, and then arguing it out. Your guys' feedback is really helpful for this, to see whether there is anything valid to the proposals.

But, in response to the rebuttal of "unknowable": A closed system would lack creativity... because creativity implies there is an opening out of which something NEW can emerge. Where could such a closed system come from? If it came from an open system which is creative, how did it then close itself off from that creativity that spawned it? And if it didn't come from anywhere else, then is it self-existing, without beginning and end, without any creativity or evolution, just stagnant and eternally dead?

It just seems to cause more problems to posit a closed system. As if it cancels itself out, traps itself in an unsolvable paradox. Whereas an open system presents infinite solutions.


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28648060 - 02/05/24 07:52 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Do you. I think the forced dichotomy is problematic from the jump.

Funny enough I can relate to your OP and only was contrary for the sake of being contrary. Which was probably the origin point of the dichotomy. Altho I had no closed system in mind. Maybe you had an open system in mind. Whatever an 'open system' could possibly refer to. Way beyond me to think of something incomplete being the whole (complete) thing. Like I've suggested, I find it silly. So I don't bother thinking about it -- it wouldn't get more or less complete either way, so have at it if this sort of thinking plinks your fandangle.

Personally I think things do matter, and there are steps to take which make a difference and don't just keep incompleteness perpetuating. Not born from views of an open or closed system though. I have no clue on that stuff.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Experiences are... (3 Proposals) [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28648523 - 02/06/24 06:52 AM (3 months, 10 days ago)

"
Where could such a closed system come from? If it came from an open system which is creative, how did it then close itself off from that creativity that spawned it?


I close myself off from influences - Rational choice - the system is closed and rationally able to defend it's position.

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