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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #28645906 - 02/04/24 02:23 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

Which molecule?

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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: koraks]
    #28646550 - 02/04/24 03:05 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Which molecule?





these are the specific problems that I have. The answers crossed out in red are wrong.

I mean I'd like to be able to solve these no matter what the molecule is just for my own personal knowledge.


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Edited by OutsideOfMyMind (02/04/24 03:18 PM)

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OfflineJoh.Ke
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: Gene Hackman]
    #28646597 - 02/04/24 03:54 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Gene Hackman said:
There's a good book called "Organic Structures from Spectra" by Leslie D. Field, Sev Sternhell, and John R. Kalman; I like to think of it as a fun puzzle book.

The book is filled with hundreds of problem sets where you have to solve the chemical structures from the spectra provided.
It is very like what you would do in a research lab where you develop a brand new molecule and have to solve its structure from all the different analyses piece-by-piece until all the pieces agree with each other.



I think that's what I was thinking of. What's the name of it?

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: Joh.Ke]
    #28646926 - 02/04/24 10:48 PM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Do you mean, as in a proton donor?

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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28647008 - 02/05/24 12:55 AM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
Do you mean, as in a proton donor?



Proton doner is the acid, proton acceptor is the base. Acid turns into a conjugate base and the base turns into the conjugate acid.

I'd like to be able to know the reagents to use to protonate and to deprotonate an acid.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,728
Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #28647032 - 02/05/24 01:11 AM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:

I mean I'd like to be able to solve these no matter what the molecule is just for my own personal knowledge.



The chapter you're working on is about acids and bases, so that's pretty much the answer to your question, isn't it? Acids are liable to donating protons, bases are liable to protonate. Some compounds, such as water, can act as an acid or a base depending on conditions.

If you want to figure out if and to what extent these proton exchanges occur, I'd suggest to start reading here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_dissociation_constant
Also relevant is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_acids_and_bases (which is mostly what your present chapter seems to be based on) and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%B8nsted%E2%80%93Lowry_acid%E2%80%93base_theory

But in the end, I doubt whether your question has the straightforward answer you're hoping/looking for. There's too much "it depends" going on.

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OfflineGene Hackman
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: Joh.Ke]
    #28647094 - 02/05/24 01:51 AM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Joh.Ke said:
I think that's what I was thinking of. What's the name of it?




Organic Structures from Spectra by Leslie D. Field, Sev Sternhell, and John R. Kalman.

It can be pirated online easily enough in the usual spots. :pirate:

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OfflineGene Hackman
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #28647211 - 02/05/24 05:36 AM (3 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:


I mean I'd like to be able to solve these no matter what the molecule is just for my own personal knowledge.




So for these types of questions you want to be looking pKa values. If a neutral molecule has a pKa higher than the other, it is more stable and therefore more likely to hold on to the proton (i.e. less likely to dissociate and release the proton). Link to some of the values below.

(a) diisopropylamine (pKa 36), water (pKa 16). Diisopropylamine wins.
(b) isobutane (pKa 53), diisopropylamine (pKa 36). Isobutane wins.
(c) acetylacetone (pKa 9), water (pKa 16). Water wins.
(d) isobutane (pKa 53), water (pKa 16). Isobutane wins. Video of t-BuLi deprotonating water in the air

The best way to find these values is to look up similar molecules, not sure if you would have access to SciFinder through your educational institution, but worth asking for access if possible, then you can look up calculated/determined values for exact molecules or related molecules using the structure search.

Without pKa values, you could make rough comparative pKa estimations by looking at the inductive effects of electron-withdrawing groups or electron-donating groups. Electron-withdrawing groups tend to increase acidity by stabilizing the conjugate base, while electron-donating groups decrease acidity by destabilizing the conjugate base.

Edited by Gene Hackman (02/05/24 06:14 AM)

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OnlineIce9
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: Gene Hackman]
    #28647447 - 02/05/24 10:30 AM (3 months, 9 days ago)

You forgot resonance stabilization of the lone pair electrons.  Much bigger effect than inductive and very important for (C). Other than that looks like you got it covered.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: Ice9]
    #28647551 - 02/05/24 11:53 AM (3 months, 9 days ago)

The textbook doesn't go over this topic in much detail at all. Like, just 1 page and then a practice problem with only 4 questions.


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: Patlal]
    #28681617 - 02/29/24 05:41 PM (2 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
I studies organic chemistry.  Its very interesting but it gets real hard, real fast.

By the end of february you won't like it so much.



Joke's on you, buddy. Maybe your curriculum was different. It's the first week of the 3rd month and...............................................................

this class is still pretty easy???

It totally feels more like an art class with lots of terminology than it does a science class. Most things are in patterns.

The most confusing thing was on chapter 5, figuring out the R/S configurations of the groups for FISCHER PROJECTIONS. But my professor made it really easy to understand and I totally get it now.

We are now on chapter 6, reactions, which is actually a CAKE WALK compared to chapter 5 on stereoisomers.

I seem to have a grasp on reaction mechanisms, arrows, nucleophilia and electrophilia, definitely not confusing like stereoisomers. And my knowledge from general chemistry 2 last semester on reactions is pretty fresh in my mind.

Labs are WAY FUNNER in organic chem than the labs in general chemistry. Last week we isolated caffeine from black tea using sodium carbonate and dichloromethane.

Today in lab we distilled alcohol (ethanol) and water with a distiller setup.

Next week we are going to synthesize aspirin.

This class is still fun and still pretty bomb.


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OnlineIce9
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #28682303 - 03/01/24 08:37 AM (2 months, 16 days ago)

Nice, glad you're enjoying it.  I just want to circle back to this question
Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Which molecule?





these are the specific problems that I have. The answers crossed out in red are wrong.

I mean I'd like to be able to solve these no matter what the molecule is just for my own personal knowledge.



Do the answers people gave you here now make more sense?  That would be a clear sign of growth in your understanding.  Keep plugging away and some future career advice.  Synthetic organic doewnt have a huge amount of jobs, I'd stick to engineering to work in process development or analytical chemistry for analytical development.  Many more jobs in those areas.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: Ice9]
    #28682321 - 03/01/24 08:55 AM (2 months, 16 days ago)

I take organic chemistry every day :awehigh:


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Dab or die trying.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: Ice9]
    #28684333 - 03/02/24 06:58 PM (2 months, 14 days ago)

I love analytical chemistry. I want to learn how to use the gas and liquid chromatography machines.


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #28757174 - 05/01/24 01:08 AM (17 days, 9 hours ago)

Ok. Class has been pretty easy yet challenging in some areas up until FUCKING CHAPTER 9 ON ADDITION REACTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus christ there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MANY REACTIONS TO MEMORIZE JESUS FUCKING CHRIST NOW I KNOW WHY THEY SAY ORGANIC CHEMISTRY IS NO JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prior to chapter 9, I could get most of the answers right based on my intuition.............but chapter 9 throws all my intuition OUT THE DOOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Oh my god I need to memorize all of these reaction mechanisms for the final exam!!!!!!!!!!  FUCK ME!!!


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InvisibleSleepyF0x
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #28757193 - 05/01/24 02:05 AM (17 days, 8 hours ago)

All I remember is reading about the first 10 pages of the ochem101 pdf they have at BL 20 years ago.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: SleepyF0x]
    #28758370 - 05/01/24 09:55 PM (16 days, 12 hours ago)



I have to memorize ALL these reactions including the reagents, whether it forms markovnikov or anti markovnikov products, whether the atoms are syn or anti-added.

This chart doesn't even show the MECHANISMS that I need to know but I'm getting them down on paper watching Chad's Prep youtube videos on addition alkene reactions.


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InvisibleSleepyF0x
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #28758670 - 05/02/24 04:42 AM (16 days, 5 hours ago)

I like the whacker reaction...


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Everybody's a ninja...

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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: SleepyF0x]
    #28765649 - 05/07/24 07:31 PM (10 days, 14 hours ago)

I got a B in the class. Fuckin' A.

Now I'm going to take organic chemistry 2 next semester. Fuck me.


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OfflineBig_Dub
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Re: Has anyone here taken organic chemistry? Love this class so far. [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #28765710 - 05/07/24 08:08 PM (10 days, 14 hours ago)

B is a solid grade man. Just keep putting in the work

Thousands of people have taken and passed this class, so why can't you


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