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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864640 - 07/07/04 11:02 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

It sounds to me as if he thinks parents should be responsible for their own kids, not for everyone.

He's right.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineRedo
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2864654 - 07/07/04 11:05 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Unfortunatly we live in a world where single moms are almost the norm, working multiple jobs and not raising their kids well. The gov. needs to do something to try and not screw these kids up completly. The parents need to be responsable, but that wont hold itself up anymore in our society.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864660 - 07/07/04 11:07 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redo said:
Unfortunatly we live in a world where single moms are almost the norm, working multiple jobs and not raising their kids well.



And all this in spite of(or perhaps because of) the fact that we suppress sex in the media far more than our European friends, who all have a much lower teen pregnancy rate.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineRedo
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: silversoul7]
    #2864665 - 07/07/04 11:11 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Are they religious people over there? I have no idea, but it could have something to do with it, as many other factors as well.

We hype sex over here to the extreme to the point where its sex without the nudity, that is the problem. We are a sex driven country that is pushed to its limits, without the proper attitude towards it. Its taboo in an odd way

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864669 - 07/07/04 11:12 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

> you dont give a shit if kids see porn on tv, I do.

Wrong... I care a lot. But is the job of the parents to prevent their kids from seeing porn on TV... not the job of the broadcasters not to broadcast porn on TV...

I live by a simple mantra: The government shall not legislate moral values.

If you want to boycott stations that broadcast Stern, etc... or you want to get radios and TVs to have some kind of child-watch rating system built into them... or anything else which doesn't include creating laws to restrict freedom, I will be right there with you. I will not, however, stand by and watch somebody take away my rights in the name of protecting their children.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineRedo
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Seuss]
    #2864672 - 07/07/04 11:13 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Then you all better find a way to make the parents be more responsable, because it wont happen on its own.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864675 - 07/07/04 11:14 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redo said:
Are they religious people over there? I have no idea, but it could have something to do with it, as many other factors as well.



Europe, I believe, is mostly atheist or agnostic now. If only this country could follow suit...

Quote:

We hype sex over here to the extreme to the point where its sex without the nudity, that is the problem. We are a sex driven country that is pushed to its limits, without the proper attitude towards it. Its taboo in an odd way



Thanks for making my case for me. It is precisely because it is taboo to us that it drives us so much. Like luvdemshrooms said, when it's out in the open, it looses its mystique.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864677 - 07/07/04 11:14 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Unfortunatly we live in a world where single moms are almost the norm



So what? Let them keeps their legs clamped together. Don't own a TV if you are incapable of controlling what your kids watch.

Quote:

The gov. needs to do something to try and not screw these kids up completly. 



The Feds fuck up just about everything they do. Do you really want fuck ups to be the ones deciding who can watch what? Just look at how they fucked up the Jackson boob shot. Had they said nothing, the stink would have died down in days rather than weeks.

Quote:

The parents need to be responsable, but that wont hold itself up anymore in our society. 



Bullshit.

(yup, another one word answer for the fans)  :moon:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864681 - 07/07/04 11:17 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redo said:
Then you all better find a way to make the parents be more responsable, because it wont happen on its own.



If a parent doesn't care enough to prevent their child from seeing porn, so be it. Even as things stand, children often end up finding their dad's Playboy magazines anyway. Sex is not something that should be kept under wraps. The sooner kids learn about it, the better they can be later in life about making informed decisions about it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2864682 - 07/07/04 11:17 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

> don't own a TV if you are incapable of controlling what your kids watch.

Exactly! Bingo! Hit the nail on the head... If you can't keep from drinking and driving, then give up drinking or give up driving. If you can't keep your kids from watching bad programming on TV, give up the kids to a responsible parent that can prevent them from watching porn on TV or give up the TV.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineRedo
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Seuss]
    #2864693 - 07/07/04 11:21 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Give up the kids to a responsible parent??? And how do you just do that?

If the parents dont give a shit about the kids, they would be able to watch all the porn on TV they want and get more screwed up. People interactions is what is needed, and if they dont get that at home the easiest thing to do is turn on the TV. If porn is on that is the best thing to watch as a preteen with hormones raging.

We have a bigger due to parenting, and whats to do about it? It wont fix itself, its only going to get worse. The government, sad as it is sometimes, is the only other possible solution. Without it, its a much faster spiral.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Seuss]
    #2864696 - 07/07/04 11:21 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

man, i walk away for a few minutes and this great debate happens. Seuss, I have to say that my point of view, on this topic, is exactly like your own. It's good to see people out there that respect the individuals right to govern his or her own life. Bravo.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864744 - 07/07/04 11:37 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redo said:
If the parents dont give a shit about the kids, they would be able to watch all the porn on TV they want and get more screwed up.



Kids learning about sex!!! How terrible! The government must intervene!!!

Quote:

People interactions is what is needed, and if they dont get that at home the easiest thing to do is turn on the TV. If porn is on that is the best thing to watch as a preteen with hormones raging.



Again, I ask: So?

Quote:

We have a bigger due to parenting, and whats to do about it? It wont fix itself, its only going to get worse. The government, sad as it is sometimes, is the only other possible solution. Without it, its a much faster spiral.



Ah, the old "father knows best" state. This is authoritarianism at its worst.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineRedo
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: silversoul7]
    #2864748 - 07/07/04 11:39 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:

Ah, the old "father knows best" state. This is authoritarianism at its worst.




So if you dont believe 'father knows best', and dont agree with government regulation, you believe in kids raising themselves?

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864757 - 07/07/04 11:42 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

In this case, I was using "father" as a metaphor for the state. The fact is that the state has no business raising someone else's kids. It should not intervene simply to prevent what some might see as moral depravity. Instill your kids with whatever morals you wish to teach them, but don't try to raise mine for me.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864764 - 07/07/04 11:44 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Won't say what's already been said, needless to say I agree absolutely with Seuss, Silver, Luvdem, etc. I'd like to add though, if government would get out of the regulation of the what-people-watch/listen-to-business, I'm sure the private sector will come up with devices/products that can limit what is shown on the family tv/radio. This EXACT THING is happening now with regards to the internet...a very large amount of companies are throwing in child protection services with their products in an effort to appeal to the worried and concerned parent. Get the government out and let the free market work.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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OfflineRedo
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: silversoul7]
    #2864768 - 07/07/04 11:45 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

If you want your kid to listen to sex chat and porn, you can do it, but you have to go out of your way to do it. Why should a parent have do more work to block their kids from this material then you would have to if you wanted to expose your child to it.

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OfflineRedo
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2864772 - 07/07/04 11:46 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
Won't say what's already been said, needless to say I agree absolutely with Seuss, Silver, Luvdem, etc. I'd like to add though, if government would get out of the regulation of the what-people-watch/listen-to-business, I'm sure the private sector will come up with devices/products that can limit what is shown on the family tv/radio. This EXACT THING is happening now with regards to the internet...a very large amount of companies are throwing in child protection services with their products in an effort to appeal to the worried and concerned parent. Get the government out and let the free market work.




They have, its called the V-Chip. Janet Jackson still did what she did at the superbowl, not any late night mature show.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: Redo]
    #2864782 - 07/07/04 11:48 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redo said:
If you want your kid to listen to sex chat and porn, you can do it, but you have to go out of your way to do it. Why should a parent have do more work to block their kids from this material then you would have to if you wanted to expose your child to it.



Because it's not the state's business to raise your children. It's YOURS. You can get a V-chip for your TV, or throw out your TV altogether. Think it's difficult? Tough shit. If you don't like what's being shown on TV, turn it off. You know, I thought conservatives were supposed to be about small government, yet you seem to have the least problem with government intervention out of anyone on this board, including the socialists.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineRedo
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Re: Moore and Stern Take On Bush [Re: silversoul7]
    #2864785 - 07/07/04 11:50 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Depends on what issue, I dont like all the hardcore emotional shit thats been rampant lately. I like honesty, which seems to not be around anymore.

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