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OfflineBattleguy
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Registered: 04/02/23
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Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28561103 - 11/29/23 05:44 PM (5 months, 16 days ago)

I’m so sorry to hear about your brother. SSRIs are no joke. I hope you have been able to heal from that as much as one possibly could. And if it makes you feel better you guys will be with each other in a better way someday.


--------------------
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, 
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, 
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

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Offlinetree frog
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy]
    #28561224 - 11/29/23 07:16 PM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Battleguy said:
I appreciate it! Man I tell you the times I “really really” invested some time into meditation and mindfulness, was a complete game changer. I’m a heavy weight procrastinator haha. That said I do fully intend on making it a more regular practice! And the anxiety is a big one for me. It’s gotten a lot better though!




I set a goal to do it everyday for at least five minutes to just get in the habit of it.

I need to do that with sitting again.  I mostly meditate lying down now because of chronic pain but I think it would be good to start pushing myself a bit again.  Different things come up in different postures anyway.

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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,714
Loc: Utah
Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy]
    #28561272 - 11/29/23 07:36 PM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
It's not common. I've never heard of that before.



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Offlineepilectric
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28561791 - 11/30/23 07:56 AM (5 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
My brother killed himself shortly after starting effexor, which has a warning on the package about "suicidal ideation". I really question whether suicidal thinking is a side effect of the medicine, or a thing more popular in the segment of the population that takes effexor.




oh my god. that's a very sad event for the relatives. i've had suicidal thought micro glimpes rarely in my dark weeks when waking up at night, but never actually contemplated it. i took SSRI for a couple of months back in 2013 and then randomly every now and then. for me, i can't see a connection between SSRIs and suicidal thoughts. i always read that it may worsen symptoms at first before it gets better - i immediately primarily noticed the positive effects, being familiar with mdma and the like. but one scenario comes to my mind: if a person already has suicidal thought and is somehow anxious to think or carry them out, more serotonin can facilitate that with it's anxiety relieving and slight energetic drift (add slight physical discomfort). but there has to be something there beforehand, i think.


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

https://soundcloud.com/cyberhops/tracks

Edited by epilectric (11/30/23 08:18 AM)

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Offlinetree frog
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: epilectric] * 1
    #28561853 - 11/30/23 08:48 AM (5 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

epilectric said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
My brother killed himself shortly after starting effexor, which has a warning on the package about "suicidal ideation". I really question whether suicidal thinking is a side effect of the medicine, or a thing more popular in the segment of the population that takes effexor.




oh my god. that's a very sad event for the relatives. i've had suicidal thought micro glimpes rarely in my dark weeks when waking up at night, but never actually contemplated it. i took SSRI for a couple of months back in 2013 and then randomly every now and then. for me, i can't see a connection between SSRIs and suicidal thoughts. i always read that it may worsen symptoms at first before it gets better - i immediately primarily noticed the positive effects, being familiar with mdma and the like. but one scenario comes to my mind: if a person already has suicidal thought and is somehow anxious to think or carry them out, more serotonin can facilitate that with it's anxiety relieving and slight energetic drift (add slight physical discomfort). but there has to be something there beforehand, i think.




I asked a Dr about this in the ER once (during a mental health crisis).  Depression can rob people of the motivation to even kill themselves.  When you introduce an anti-depressent, you might improve a person's motivation without dealing with the suicidal ideation.

Basically, the SSRIs aren't causing the suicidal intention.  But providing enough energy that the intention can get carried out before the rest of the person's mental health has improved enough that they actually want to live.

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OfflineJim I.T.I
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: tree frog]
    #28561947 - 11/30/23 09:52 AM (5 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Battleguy said:
I have heard a lot of positive testimonies in that regard! I’m really happy to hear that it was able to help! I think the mistake I made was smoking a lot of marijuana during the experience. Now that I think of it all of my “bad” trips were while I was smoking marijuana. And WOW 3 days haha! Do you mind sharing what you experienced specifically that made that change for you? Or was more just and accumulation of multiple things that changed your perspective/mental wellbeing?




See link below, i posted a description of this experience recently. anyway that was last time I grew over a year ago. last time i took a big dose of psilo.i don't know if i actually died, passed out, had a seizure...all three? and yeah pot. i always have weed man. for decades lol. i've been working with amanita for a while now and it's proved quite helpful to me. anyway i'm in a much better place now. this experience was last new years. i was never the same after this. in a better way. shrooms actually pulled me back from the edge after showing me what was over it.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28543101#28543101


--------------------
Be patient & Let it happen

Edited by Jim I.T.I (12/01/23 09:39 AM)

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Offlinetregar
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Jim I.T.I]
    #28582322 - 12/14/23 08:18 AM (5 months, 2 days ago)

Sorry to hear about your brother killing himself shortly after beginning effexor regreenvines.

At least for me, psychedelics cured me of drug addictions and depression long time ago.
That along with lifting weights and long walks in nature or swimming at the Waterpark at least once a week all summer long, outdoors and sunlight I must enjoy to stay above it all. Even in the Bible you read about people with depression.

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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: tregar] * 1
    #28582540 - 12/14/23 12:22 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

I guess I do have suicidal ideation on shrooms. I swear I would not do it and I am in control and I am not in danger. But it feels very scary and freaky in the moment. I feel ok when I'm sober. But 3g and up on dried shrooms can bring some crazy thoughts. I get weird feelings of paranoia and disassociation from my surroundings like I am in purgatory. It feels like a forgone conclusion like "today is the day I kill myself" or I have visions of the paramedics or someone finding me dead. It feels inevitable like a prophecy like how MacBeth was told he would kill his father and sleep with his mother so he runs away and tries to avoid it but ends up fulfilling the prophecy. So when I have this bad trip it feels like any attempt to avoid suicide actually will bring it about. If I call someone or go near the kitchen knives it is like a series of dominoes falling. So I just lay in my bed because I know I will sober up in 6 hours. I also have some other very insane ideas which I will never tell anyone or maybe on my death bed or when I'm 80. Very freaky stuff. It seems like a mind virus and I don't want it to spread through the population. It is similar to the movie "Birdbox" or the music video "Just" by Radiohead.

My theory about suicide is we have an "ego." The ego wants us to stay focused on food, sex, and money. The ego is afraid to die. The shrooms push us to ego death. So the ego uses reverse psychology and calls our bluff and suggests suicide. We reject suicide and cling to life and we get really scared. The fear allows the ego to maintain control of our mind and body.

Hope that helps. :smile:

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Offlineepilectric
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Soul Flight]
    #28582666 - 12/14/23 02:07 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

idk about you but my ego wants much more intangible "things" than money or the satisfaction of physical needs.


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

https://soundcloud.com/cyberhops/tracks

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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: epilectric]
    #28582721 - 12/14/23 02:59 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

It may want more, but it probably wants those things first. I don't think you're writing us sat posessionless from a mountain top subsisting on charity.

A concept is "the ego as animal".

We're pretty driven by our ego-animal primarily even if as people we are more than these instinctual things.

Typically.. when faced with a dangerous situation we feel fear, when bullied we feel rejection, when hungry we feel irritable. These are animal instincts that preserve life. We can control how we react to them, but we cannot stop them. There's many more, but I don't want to turn the post into an essay.

It's an interesting idea to play around with. From some earlier discussions here we've been exploring the idea of illusion of choice and this could link directly to that.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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OfflineIcon
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: epilectric]
    #28582748 - 12/14/23 03:37 PM (5 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

epilectric said:
idk about you but my ego wants much more intangible "things" than money or the satisfaction of physical needs.



That might have to do with context. If your physical needs are already satisfied, of course you wouldn't want for them. If you're one of billions of people that are constantly anxious about your physical security then that seems pretty normal. And then there's drug addicts who don't prioritize physical needs above what their ego wants.

For me, my darkest thoughts stem from becoming aware of what I can't have. Psychedelics, as an instrument of consciousness, can emphasize that awareness. They say ignorance is bliss and that might be true because if I could think as youthfully as an innocent child maybe I would be happier. Depression and self deprecation can start at a young age though, especially if raised in a religious family. Then as you get older you realize opportunities have passed you by. If it doesn't work out, an aware person realizes that they may have to suffer the feeling of not having what they wanted for the rest of their lives. If they can live with it, it still changes a person.

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OfflineBattleguy
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Icon]
    #28644643 - 02/02/24 10:03 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

If you don’t mind me asking, what is it that your aware that you can’t have? Life after death?


--------------------
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, 
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, 
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

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InvisibleSeventhMushroom
Is this thing on?


Registered: 12/30/22
Posts: 59
Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy] * 1
    #28645668 - 02/03/24 08:03 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Turvenuija said:
I've had many many trips where I've thought about suicide but I can never remember precisely why when I'm not high. Something about reality being a lie but there's more to it that I couldn't describe with words even if I could remember. I've reasoned that there's no point dying yet just in case I'm wrong. The moment I discard the possibility of being wrong about something so important is when I can kiss the rest of my sanity goodbye. So death can wait.

I've been stuck with this dilemma for a long time. Many people here would think of me as delusional or in psychosis but naturally I don't think I am. I don't blame you, a small part of me agrees. After experiencing it so many times over the years it has been ingrained into me, it's a core pillar of my world view now. I feel that death is the only thing left to try to escape. I don't have high hopes for that working either to be honest, I'd probably wake up in my bed thinking it was just a bad dream or something wacky like that.




My own views are similar. I'll join you in your psychosis (:

~ story time - sorry but this turned out long :P ~

I've been officially diagnosed with "acute on chronic major depression" (aka, shit always sucks chronically, but sometimes it sucks extra bad acutely) for my entire adult and adolescent life, and likely have lived with it undiagnosed for even longer. When my physician asks me "have you had any suicidal thoughts in the past 2 weeks?" as part of a routine depression screening, I have to decide whether I want to be honest, and risk being forced into a 3-day hospital stay in a suicide-watch ward by saying "of course, I think about suicide all the time", or do I get back home safe and sound by saying "no, I haven't had suicidal thoughts recently". I'm not an idiot, I know the "healthy" answer! (fortunately, my current doc has enough rapport for me to say "yup, all the time" and not end up in the psych ward, but it's always a risk)

However, a long time ago, I made a pact with myself. I know I'm going to die: everyone dies. And while maybe this reality is a lie, maybe I could avoid being in pain by dying, maybe there's an escape - but what if I'm wrong? I'm not 100% convinced that death will actually stop the pain. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Christians are right, and I'll go to hell for eternity. Or maybe the Buddhists are right, and I'll just be reincarnated as something worse. Or maybe I'll just wake up and say "woah, what a trip". Who knows?  And, no matter who's right, what do I really have to lose?? a few more decades of pain??? EASY. been there, done that. If I'm going to die regardless, I've made it this far, I might as well see this thing to it's natural conclusion.  (side note: At the moment, I'd lean towards "woah, what a trip", but the Buddhists are a close second, and I think the Christians are just fear-mongers on a power trip)

You see, in the end, I stopped caring. I stopped caring if I lived, or if I died. Pain was just a given. After all, I can't remember a time when I wasn't in (emotional) pain. And so, when I finally stopped caring about "getting better", or "feeling happy", I was free. But I made myself a deal: I would see this miserable existence to the end. I don't have to struggle if I don't want to, but I refuse to do anything to speed up the process... just in case I'm wrong. Even if it means a bit more time being miserable.

I'm going to die soon anyways, it's just a matter of when. Will I die in the next 5 minutes? or will it take 5 decades? if reality is a lie, then what is time, and what difference would a few years make? I'll find out sooner or later. And, if nothing matters, what does it matter if I just sit here and wait for the end?

So, when my doctor asks me about my "suicidal ideation", I can't help but think to myself, "man, I'm really just waiting until I can die!", but I know that I will not break that pact. Like you, it has come up so many times, it has become a core pillar of my world view. And frankly, I'm a much healthier, more functional, human being because of it.

And today, possibly thanks to the shrooms, I can say that there are actions I want to take as I wait for my demise. My view hasn't changed: I know I'm going to die, and it might be tomorrow, and it might be when I'm 100. But now, instead of just idly waiting, maybe I can use whatever time I have left to take those actions and reach for something. If my actions succeed, that would be awesome! and if they fail.... Well, what have I really lost?? I was just going to die in pain anyways.


--------------------
LAGM 2024

Edited by SeventhMushroom (02/03/24 08:10 PM)

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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: SeventhMushroom]
    #28646254 - 02/04/24 10:38 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

So sorry to hear about all that. Hang in there. Never forget you can reach out to a hotline or your healthcare provider.

Maybe "the darkest moment is just before dawn." Let's hope so. :smile:

Be well. Be safe. :smile:

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InvisibleSeventhMushroom
Is this thing on?


Registered: 12/30/22
Posts: 59
Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Soul Flight]
    #28646429 - 02/04/24 01:30 PM (3 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Soul Flight said:
So sorry to hear about all that. Hang in there. Never forget you can reach out to a hotline or your healthcare provider.

Maybe "the darkest moment is just before dawn." Let's hope so. :smile:

Be well. Be safe. :smile:




I don't think you understood what I wrote at all, if you're implying I should call a suicide hotline.


--------------------
LAGM 2024

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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: SeventhMushroom]
    #28646545 - 02/04/24 03:01 PM (3 months, 11 days ago)

So sorry if I misunderstood. I meant call the hotline at that last critical crucial moment in the final moments.

Sorry again if I am still confused. :smile:

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Offlinetree frog
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: SeventhMushroom]
    #28646616 - 02/04/24 04:17 PM (3 months, 11 days ago)

For me it was a pact with my kid.  That I would be as present for him as I can be  for as long as I can be.

Went to prison shortly after my last 72 hour hold.  The paragraph above is why I didn't leave that place in a body bag.

I still have suicidal ideation occasionally, sounds like you do too.

But it sounds like both of us have made healthy boundaries for ourselves and are planning to be here for the duration.

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