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sudly
Quasar Praiser

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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: I think they could probably just set up a false flag. Draw their attention to a different area. Strike where it’s weakest. Clear the air really quick with some missiles. Send f16s directly following the strikes. Blow a hole through the SOT.
Distract and hit the weak point.. not a lot of detail in that strategy.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
#28644650 - 02/02/24 10:12 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
Stable Genius said:
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sudly said: The US didn't fund, promote or assist regime change.
You’ve had this proven to you yet you can’t bear to admit you have this wrong.
You’ve had Naftali Bennett’ admission that the collective west sunk the first round of peace talks, yet you won’t accept it.
You’ve had the sniper theory proven correct with a court ruling, yet you won’t accept it.
It’s your choice if you want look ignorant I guess.
You have had this, 'The US didn't fund, promote or assist regime change,' proven time and time again, yet it doesn't fit your reverse engineered narrative so it will never be befitting to the notion you've concocted in your feeding frenzy.
The only thing you’ve proven time and time again is your inability to accept reality and argue these points in good faith.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#28644682 - 02/02/24 11:13 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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You apply the right logic to the Israel, Gaza conflict, because the situation on the ground is relatively clear, and the excuses are rather see through in retrospect of the coverage.
The difference then is the idea of regime change, that idea that it's unbelievable to you that political shifts occured within Ukraine of their own accord. From what I understand, your position is that it must be that the US changed the leadership of Ukraine. I do wonder why this seems to be such a holding point for you.
But I'm willing to try and steelman your case, let's say the US did change the leadership of Ukraine, let's assume for this case the speeches given by McCain did convince Ukranian leadership that the EU was a good partnership, let's assume the west collectively wanted a better peace deal than was offered, none of that stands out. But if we assume there's an american backed sniper whom facilitated a multilater shooting of protestors AND police officers during the Maiden events, then we have cause for concern.
So from what I gather, the ultimate assumption is that US backed sniper operatives DID multilaterally shoot protestors and police, to further stir tensions.
If we assume this is true, that the US did through back lines or whatever means necessary, planted sniper(s) in the maiden to shoot both sides and stir further escalations.
The presumption then is that one or multiple people shooting at both sides of a violently escalating situation would and did inevitably benefit the US agenda.
In summary, for this case, we assume there was an undercover false flag operation facilitated by US intelligence, and that this operation was facilitated to further escalate the violence during the Euromaidan protests by deploying snipers to shoot at both protestors and police
If that's the case, then simplifying this situation to a single cause or a covert operation may not capture the full breadth of the circumstances and factors involved.
If a covert operation did occur, its impact and significance would need to be considered within the full context of the events, and this includes pre existing political, economic and social conditions prior to the protest, the broad scale of the protest that involved hundreds of thousands of people, the development of escalations within the protest, international support or condemnation, economic pressure, the outcomes after the protests, including the removal of Yanukovych, the annexation of Crimea, and the conflict in Eastern Ukraine. These events were shaped by a wide range of actions, reactions and historical context, and boiling it down to the linch pin of a covert US facilitated false flag sniper operation simplifies beyond practicality, and purports to rely on an extreme emphasises of the significance and impact one or several snipers multilaterally killing protestors and police could actually have.
The notion that a single event, even one as dramatic as a false flag sniper operation, could singularly determine the course of such widespread and multifaceted protests simplifies the reality of how mass movements and political changes occur. Such a view doesn't consider the confluence of factors, including longstanding public sentiments, political rivalries, economic conditions, and international influences, all interacting in unpredictable ways.
All you're doing is simplifying the events beyond practicality by reducing complex, multifaceted protests with numerous causes and outcomes to the actions of a single covert operation.
It's a view that's easier to grasp, but it's void of reality.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
#28644815 - 02/03/24 05:27 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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What a load of word salad shit.
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sudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
#28644816 - 02/03/24 05:36 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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The omnivore has a diet. No horse shit.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Brian Jones
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
#28644845 - 02/03/24 06:16 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Russia is upset that that Ecuador is giving Russian made military equipment to the U.S. who will ship it to Ukraine. Ecuador is happy because we are giving them $200 million worth of new equipment in return for what they say is rusty old Russian and Ukrainian junk. They say it's junk because they want to retain diplomatic relations with Russia.
How useful the eqipment is or isn't will clarify the issue. I'm leaning towards our motivation was to piss Russia off as much as possible. They built it and sent it to South America, with ambitions to weaken us. Now we got and we're sending it to Ukraine. Everything can be part of a strategy, but I'm seeing this as more insult (psych ops?) than conventional military strategy.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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chopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones]
#28644998 - 02/03/24 09:16 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: Russia is upset that that Ecuador is giving Russian made military equipment to the U.S. who will ship it to Ukraine. Ecuador is happy because we are giving them $200 million worth of new equipment in return for what they say is rusty old Russian and Ukrainian junk. They say it's junk because they want to retain diplomatic relations with Russia.
How useful the eqipment is or isn't will clarify the issue. I'm leaning towards our motivation was to piss Russia off as much as possible. They built it and sent it to South America, with ambitions to weaken us. Now we got and we're sending it to Ukraine. Everything can be part of a strategy, but I'm seeing this as more insult (psych ops?) than conventional military strategy.
Ecuador got taken over by a US client regime. The same idiots who gave up Julian Assange under US pressure. Something which the old Ecuadorian government refused to do, by the way.
Nothing new there.
It should be noted this is something of a desperation move by the US side, who running out of sources for artillery and air defense to send to Ukraine, have resorted to scraping the bottom of the barrel by pressuring small countries like Ecuador to hand over whatever old Soviet equipment they might have to Ukraine.
The problem is you can't keep doing that forever and the Russians will just end up burning all of it on the battlefield anyway.
Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Meanwhile, Ukraine just got more air defense.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/03/russia-ukraine-war-at-a-glance-what-we-know-on-day-710
Can’t wait until the f-16s blow a hole through that sea of teeth and just end this. The entire world will be happy that this war is over with the exception of Vladimir Putin, and chopstick.
Your posts are so bad I'm just gonna assume you're trolling at this point.
He thinks F-16's will win the war
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SirTripAlot
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] 2
#28645042 - 02/03/24 10:01 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Dude, there is no way Russia can win this war, that timeframe has passed. I know it's hard to accept that a relatively small country could fend off the big bad Ruskies for over two years with dust on the self military armaments from the US....but that's the reality.
I get it sometimes it's hard to drop the pom poms, but literally, the game has been over for awhile. No mater what territory, big or small, that Russia acquires, the loss diplomatically, their military , and the absolute economic instability with stay with them for decades..... makes this a bonefide disaster, one for the history books.
They will get to rule over the rubble and then deal with an insurgency....for decades. Any ecomonic bump Putin thought he would get, is now nil of nil, with a double fuck you from the world.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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twighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] 1
#28645063 - 02/03/24 10:30 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Lol uses 'soviet equipment' as a demeaning term
Hate to break it to you but by far the mass of Russia's shite equipment is of USSR origin.
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chopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: twighead] 1
#28645146 - 02/03/24 11:42 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Dude, there is no way Russia can win this war, that timeframe has passed. I know it's hard to accept that a relatively small country could fend off the big bad Ruskies for over two years with dust on the self military armaments from the US....but that's the reality.
I get it sometimes it's hard to drop the pom poms, but literally, the game has been over for awhile. No mater what territory, big or small, that Russia acquires, the loss diplomatically, their military , and the absolute economic instability with stay with them for decades..... makes this a bonefide disaster, one for the history books.
They will get to rule over the rubble and then deal with an insurgency....for decades. Any ecomonic bump Putin thought he would get, is now nil of nil, with a double fuck you from the world.
Wrong on almost every count. Russia can win and is winning it even now. The reasons for this are obvious. Russia has no shortage of manpower or war material. Ukraine on the other hand has a shortage of both and has resorted to forced mobilization, which has produced countless videos of random poor folks getting dragged off the streets and into waiting vans by force. Ukraine is not going to win by forcing randoms off the streets and into the trenches under threat of being shot, lol.
Russia is obviously willing to fight as long as it takes. If this trend continues, Ukraine will collapse within a few years and Russia will ultimately take as much land as they desire. Not only that but Ukraine's demographics will be so badly damaged by this war, that even if they retain some territory it will be difficult for them to remain viable as a functioning state or economy.
It's a very sad situation where the outcome of the war has already been decided but a whole bunch more people are going to have to die for the Ukrainians to be forced to face reality. The role that the West played in forcing this scenario and pushing the Ukrainians towards this outcome must never be forgotten, for it is the Ukrainians themselves that will pay the highest price in the end.
It has been well covered in this thread how the Russian economy is doing fine. They have weathered the sanctions and still make huge amounts of money off their oil and agriculture sectors. Especially since the price of oil went up. This needs no further explanation.
There has been no serious diplomatic "loss". Almost every country outside of the West retains good diplomatic relations with Russia. Only the West itself has shown its ugliness in this regard. Needless to say, Russia does not particularly care for its relations with Western nations as they have been forced to wake up to the fact that the West is its enemy and will not tolerate a sovereign Russia, that it will never stop trying to destroy them.
This is very unfortunate as our attitude towards Russia is destabilizing the entire planet and has pushed us closer towards nuclear war.
As for the Russian military, it's actually in better shape than it was before the war. Issues that were discovered within the first year of the war have been addressed. Huge quantities of personnel have voluntarily signed up without the need for Ukraine-style forced mobilization. Production of all types of munitions as well as armored vehicles and drones has increased dramatically.
The insurgency will be a problem but not an insurmountable one. Meanwhile, many parts of the world are increasingly turning against not Russia but the West due to its obvious hypocrisy and double standards on the Israel/Gaza issue. The Emperor, as they say, has no clothing.
In the end we did not make Russia weaker but stronger. This is a natural consequence as our nation's imperialistic attitudes are highly self-defeating and repugnant.
Quote:
twighead said: Lol uses 'soviet equipment' as a demeaning term
Hate to break it to you but by far the mass of Russia's shite equipment is of USSR origin.
I did not mean it as a demeaning term. Most Soviet equipment is well-designed, still dangerous even today and very durable. They typically weather extreme battle conditions and harsh weather more consistently than Western equipment.
Ukraine for example prefers the T-72 to the leopard, which has inferior armor protection. But they were forced to use the Leopard due to most of their Soviet equipment having been burned by now.
The equipment from Ecuador will be a short-term threat but like everything else that has been sent to Ukraine, it will be burned.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#28645179 - 02/03/24 12:08 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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America has plenty of artillery we could send them. We didn’t think that was good enough. Russia deserves to get its own crappy munitions shot back at it. That’s why it’s funny. Plus, it makes the statement that not only are those South American countries not allied to you. We bought them new stuff.
 Russia is the biggest joke on the world stage. I think that years of economic hardships later. This might be what it took to galvanize Russians to actually strive for change.
If you really think about it, it was such a disaster that it literally has threatened his regime. You might need to get a new job soon chopstick.
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ballsalsa
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] 1
#28645244 - 02/03/24 01:25 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Imagine watching top of the line T-90s getting wrecked by 45 year old Bradleys without even using their TOWs or guided missile cruisers being sunk by seadoos with bombs strapped to the front and thinking 'this is fine' or even 'things have never been better'
 Meanwhile Moscow keeps rolling T-54s out of storage Absolutely and hilariously delusional post. Keep up the good work, buddy.
--------------------
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Stable Genius
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: America has plenty of artillery we could send them. We didn’t think that was good enough. Russia deserves to get its own crappy munitions shot back at it. That’s why it’s funny. Plus, it makes the statement that not only are those South American countries not allied to you. We bought them new stuff.
 Russia is the biggest joke on the world stage. I think that years of economic hardships later. This might be what it took to galvanize Russians to actually strive for change.
If you really think about it, it was such a disaster that it literally has threatened his regime. You might need to get a new job soon chopstick.
If there's one item the U.S. + the collective west can't deliver it's artillery, specifically 155mm shells. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/ukraine-ammunition-shortage-russia-war/
Russia is the biggest joke? Yeah it's such a joke that the BRICS alliance continues to expand. Saudi Arabia officially joined the bloc last week. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/saudi-state-tv-says-kingdom-officially-begins-membership-brics-bloc-2024-01-02/#:~:text=DUBAI%2C%20Jan%202%20(Reuters),take%20%22the%20appropriate%20decision%22.
Economic hardship under Putin will galvanise Russians? Dude, Russia's economy has outperformed every country in Europe. For the first time it is the worlds 5th largest. https://infobrics.org/post/39053 The only thing that's been galvanised is public support for Putin https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/
"If you really think about it, it was such a disaster blah blah blah blah".... read every link above.
Your obnoxious comments towards chopstick only make you look even siller considering every point you raised you got completely wrong.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
#28645315 - 02/03/24 02:33 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Imagine watching top of the line T-90s getting wrecked by 45 year old Bradleys without even using their TOWs or guided missile cruisers being sunk by seadoos with bombs strapped to the front and thinking 'this is fine' or even 'things have never been better'
 Meanwhile Moscow keeps rolling T-54s out of storage Absolutely and hilariously delusional post. Keep up the good work, buddy.
No doubt about it, drones have completely changed the game. It's also worth remembering the massive Soviet era manufacturing facility assets Russia has, they can punch out their own drones too.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
#28645319 - 02/03/24 02:40 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Russia is the biggest joke on the world stage.
Quote:
Stable Genius said:
Your obnoxious comments completely wrong.
Name one other country in the world that’s lost its Navy in a ground war and then maybe I’ll reevaluate the statement.
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3547168/continued-support-to-ukraine-replenishing-military-stocks-priorities-for-depart/
All this is doing is giving us an opportunity to get rid of old munitions that we were going to just dismantle anyways. The only reason spending hasn’t been passed is because the house is trying to make a statement about the border.
all day long. All they do is whine about border security to hold up funding for Ukraine.
The fact is we have a ton of stuff. We can send over there right now. We would just have to start making more of it. Which is not a big ask. We were going to have to make more of it anyways.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (02/03/24 02:54 PM)
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lifeiswhatyoumake


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Age of Empires 2 taught me to not focus on navy when it's a ground war. Putin needs to sit down and learn how to play war.
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chopstick
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Imagine watching top of the line T-90s getting wrecked by 45 year old Bradleys without even using their TOWs or guided missile cruisers being sunk by seadoos with bombs strapped to the front and thinking 'this is fine' or even 'things have never been better'
 Meanwhile Moscow keeps rolling T-54s out of storage Absolutely and hilariously delusional post. Keep up the good work, buddy.
Nothing delusional about it. Thing is, Ukraine goes after targets which won't have an actual effect on the battlefield because they love the PR and shock value. It's about morale, not about winning the war. This is effective on clueless westerners as well, clearly as evidenced on this forum.
While clueless Americans were celebrating the sinking of some small warship, the Ukrainians continue to lose some 500 people a day, are being pushed back in key areas of the front, and still have to desperately try to make up for manpower shortages - shortages caused because Russia has killed so many of them - by snatching people up by force out of their homes, restaurants, busses, you name it. The trend of them losing has not changed even slightly, lmao.
There was like one video of a T-90 getting ambushed by a Bradley. Shit like this can happen. One video is not indicative of how the war is going.
At any rate, it's pointless to keep arguing over who is winning because time will prove me right in the end. Most Americans are just exposed to so much propaganda they have no idea what's going on. It's kinda sad.
Sadly I don't think anyone will admit they were wrong, either. It's just gonna be all "but the insurgency", "but it took them longer than I expected them too", "Russia won too slowly", etc.
These things don't matter. The fact is that the West went all-out in its attempts to use Ukraine to destroy Russia and failed. Russia has defeated the attempt and after Ukraine is fully finished off, their only remaining option will be to go to war with Russia directly. Either that, or accept the death of the uni-polar world and the beginning of the multi-polar one.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#28645386 - 02/03/24 03:31 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Russia isn’t gonna recover from the war they started for decades. How was this the wests failure? We didn’t start the war. They lost it and all of their prestige with it. Not that they had much of that to begin with. With all of the poisoning of political dissidents while people constantly fall out of windows.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#28645391 - 02/03/24 03:39 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Dude, there is no way Russia can win... I get it sometimes it's hard to drop the pom poms...
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (02/03/24 03:39 PM)
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twighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] 1
#28645392 - 02/03/24 03:41 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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PPP isn't a measure of the raw size of an economy, it's the measure of affordability vs GDP.... in terms of GDP Russia sits behind Italy, France, Canada, Germany, the UK, etc.
BRICS may be economically persuasive in certain contexts but I'd never call it an alliance, there are already too many countries in it that hate eachother. At best it may be as influential as G20 someday which displays its own fractured effectiveness due to members differing ideologies.
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