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OfflinePapayaKing
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Two questions (Pins & to much water)
    #28645040 - 02/03/24 09:58 AM (4 months, 20 days ago)

Hi,


So we noticed today that small, small pinning has begun to form. I mean, really, really small, but you still can see them.

The spawnbag has colonized for 60 days now, and we havent done any Break and shake what so ever. The bag is like 95% colonized. Smells very good and no signs of any contam what i can see.

What is the best way to deal with this? Should we try to fruit directly in the bag, or should we remove the cake from the bag and set it in a tub or something? Or should we just wait it out, or remove the uncolonized grain and break the rest up for S2B?

We don't want to mess upp now that we have made it this far. Would really, really approciete some feedback here before we mess up.

Also, I cm see very much condensation in the bag. Its dripping from the walls of the bag and pooling up on the side... Is this bad? If so, what should I do?

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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Two questions (Pins & to much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28645057 - 02/03/24 10:24 AM (4 months, 20 days ago)

For 60 days and some pooling in the bag
let´s assume the bag is bacterial.
My advice is this.
Cut the top open and place in the water tub.
If you have coir on hand you should coat the top a bit.
If there´s uncolonized parts, wait til they are.

Pictures always help :wink:

      :cookiemonster:


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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & to much water) [Re: Goatrider]
    #28645099 - 02/03/24 11:07 AM (4 months, 20 days ago)

Thanks for the reply.
I cant see any contam, but it could be in the middle/inside of the spawn, so thats not a sure card.

It was very, very cold the first month or so, so I think it could have stalled it a bit.

It smells really good when I smell it, and I cant see any miscolouring or such. But it seems like its ready for fruiting since the tiny pines. It also looks like the start of fuzzy feet-shrooms when I look at the surface. Like mycelium-spikes(?)







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OfflineLand TroutM
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Re: Two questions (Pins & to much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28645113 - 02/03/24 11:14 AM (4 months, 20 days ago)

That is what bacterial looks like. The kernels that are uncolonized by fungi and colonized by bacteria and that is why the bag isn’t finishing. You could try and top fruit, but that will likely get trich or some other mold after it’s exposed to outside air. Good luck. And welcome to mushroom cultivation.

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & to much water) [Re: Land Trout]
    #28645171 - 02/03/24 11:57 AM (4 months, 20 days ago)

Ah, I see... Damn.
Thanks for the answer, man.

I try to do as you say, if it works, it works. Otherwise i will throw it away.
I have learned quite a lot, so it will be better chance to succed next time.

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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & to much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28645199 - 02/03/24 12:41 PM (4 months, 20 days ago)

Hi, as long as you already have pins it means the micellium is strong enough to give you some fruits.

On my side, i have had a bunch of failed jars, and what i did with the was taking the good, colonized part, mixed it with coco coir 1:1 ratio, placed it into small plastic boxes, added some more coir on the top and just let it fruit that way.

As of now, the boxes are pinning.

On one jar i had moderate black mold colonizing about half of it, again, took the good part etc.

Now it's sitting in a 15x15 box and pinning, albeit with heavy black mold on the bottom...

So, having contaminated substrates it's not the end of it, you can still get some mushrooms out of it.

Worst case scenario you only get a small harvest, but it should be enough to provide you with lots of spores :thumbup:

Keep going, top it with coir and spawn that substrate.

- you could even take a small part ( 1/4 th of what you have) and try to mix that with coir and spawn and see how it goes.


My ongoing struggle : golden teacher




Edited by AlexandrDughin (02/03/24 12:58 PM)

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & to much water) [Re: AlexandrDughin]
    #28645269 - 02/03/24 01:52 PM (4 months, 20 days ago)

Hi, mate.
Thanks for your input.

I have mixed up some coir now, so im going to wait a couple of hours and then mix it in some small containers with some part of the good spawn and let it sit. Maybe I get lucky and get something. At this point, I would be happy for just a couple of fruits.

I have removed the bag now and put the cake in a chamber with some perlite in the bottom and with some aluminum foil covering it.
I got micropore covering the six holes that I drilled... also I sprayed the Walls of the chamber with water... also introduced some light to it. I dont count on this to do anything, but its better than nothing...

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & to much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28645420 - 02/03/24 04:20 PM (4 months, 20 days ago)

So, guys.
Since i got nothing to loose, i did an experiment. Inspired by the user here that gave me some ideas.

Found around 15 different small / medium containers that I mixed spawn/ coir with. Shut them tight, and I have now put them in my monotub.

I was thinking that I let them re-colonize (If they even want that) and if im lucky and can see some progress, then I'll open the containers up, inside the monotub and let them fruit inside there.

Got my fingers crossed.

Btw, i broke the cake, and I could not see any contam at all. It smells fantastic too.

Is it around 10 days for the myc to recolonize? I got some see-trough containers so that I dont have to open them up to check the progress.



Edited by PapayaKing (02/03/24 04:29 PM)

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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & to much water) [Re: PapayaKing] * 1
    #28645933 - 02/04/24 03:50 AM (4 months, 19 days ago)

You did mix it in a 1 part spawn : 1 part choir ratio, or you went higher like 1:2,1:3,1:4 ?

I mixed mine in a 1:1 ratio ( by volume , not weight ), maybe a bit less.

fingers crossed, and you should see it colonized in about 10 days or so.

reference dimensions for my small boxes :



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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & to much water) [Re: AlexandrDughin] * 1
    #28645969 - 02/04/24 04:36 AM (4 months, 19 days ago)

I went for 1:1 for the most of them. Started with spawn in the bottom, then coir, mixed it together, then a thin layer of coir on top so that the spawn was not exposed in the top.
On some other i went double layers. Spawn, coir then spawn and coir again.

I got some spawn over in the end, so I took some small glas jars that I got when I bought weed. I tought it was better to just put some there, than to throw it away. I just mixed the last spawn and coir in thoose together.

In total, i think there is around 20 containers in different shapes and sizes.

I will let them sit now double shut for about 7-10 days.
(Containers shut and monotub shut with latch and micropore). If I see anything good happen after this, then I'll open them up and fruit inside the monotub.

As im checking today trough the monotub and the see-trough containers, i see that some moist has built up around the Walls of the containers, which i think is something good?

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28646548 - 02/04/24 03:04 PM (4 months, 19 days ago)

Interesting re-use of the Monotub there :strokebeard:

Depends on the mycelium, it can take a week, it could take several weeks. Just depends.


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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #28647000 - 02/05/24 12:45 AM (4 months, 18 days ago)

Yeah, I think its good to play it safe and minimize the air coming in while they re-colonizing (Even if they are inside small containers that are shut)

It smells really good when I open the monotub(Fresh forest), but it doesnt smell anything in the room. I think that is a good indicator that the airflow is under control.

The only thing im worried about is that all the containers are in the same box. If one goes bad, then I have the risk for it spreading to the others.
So im thinking of making annother tub, and then redistrubate them among the tubs.

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28647394 - 02/05/24 09:26 AM (4 months, 18 days ago)

Hi again guys,

I took one of the plastic containers out now and put in annother box with the lid flipped.

Just to experiment and try to fruit one of the 20 containers i have, directly. This because I heard different opinions on what is best. So I wanted to figure it out myself.


Edited by PapayaKing (02/05/24 09:28 AM)

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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing] * 1
    #28647657 - 02/05/24 01:40 PM (4 months, 18 days ago)

Here are the reference results for my ongoing boxes :

mold contaminated :
wheat grains
500 ml jar, saved about 200ml, 300ml contaminated
inoculated : 10.12 ( day.month )
spawned : 13.01
hyphal knots : 26.01
pins : 31.01

curent photo : 05.02


bacterial contamination and stalled colonization:

wheat grains
500 ml jars, saved about 100 ml of spawn
inoculated : 10.12
spawned : 24.01
hyphal knots : 31.01
pins : forgot to take note.. maybe 01.02


ps :
there are 3 more boxes, that are just now starting to have hyphal knots but were inoculated with a different isolate from the original agar.

curent photo : 05.01


I hope this will help you track the growth on your side also.

general humidity : 80%-90%
general temperature : 19-23 degrees celsius

i have some water on the bottom of the big boxes that contain the small ones


Edited by AlexandrDughin (02/05/24 02:03 PM)

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: AlexandrDughin]
    #28648283 - 02/05/24 11:24 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Thanks man for being so helpful. Really awesome post! Its really nice to have something to compare to.

Two questions:

Its very cold with dry air where we live but we can manage to stay in range for the temperatures that we need. But we're unsure about the humidity. What can we do to up it? In annother room in the house, the humidity is only 20%. I sprayed the walls of the tub yesterday, and I can still se droplets on the walls. Does this mean that I have OK humidity? (I will buy something to check with today).

Should we open the box that we have the fruiting container in, and spray the walls etc once a day? Or is it better to just let it be? Set and forget?

Thanks again for being so helpful. I really appriciete it.

Edited by PapayaKing (02/05/24 11:28 PM)

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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing] * 1
    #28648284 - 02/05/24 11:26 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Humidity is not that important for cubes,  spraying the walls serves no purpose.

Keep the surface covered in small drops and you'll be fine

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #28648313 - 02/06/24 12:45 AM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Thanks for the reply. That makes me feel a little more calm.

I heard you should not spray directly at the myc. So what is the way to go for creating a good surface of small drops? A good quality water-sprayer that you spray above and not directly? Or are there some other way that is better for this?

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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing] * 1
    #28648315 - 02/06/24 12:48 AM (4 months, 17 days ago)

The big boxes that contains the small boxes have some water on the bottom of them.

I kept, as you did, the small boxes and big boxes closed for 2/3 days after spawn, then i took the lid off the small boxes and just kept the big lid on the big boxes on, but a bit opened so they have fresh air.
- with a small crack in the top lid, and water on the bottom, the general humidity is at 80-90%
- i bought the hydrometer yesterday only, so the whole run ws done with no thermometer or hydrometer.

checked once a day that the surface is not extremely dry, sprayed a very fine mist maybe once a day if i saw no droplets on the surface of the mycellium.

from what i read on the forums, you don't want to keep them permanently hydrated with tiny dropplets, you actually want to:
have the dropplets on
then let them evaporate
then mist again
let them evaporate
etc.
after a while you will see some small white dots forming, about 0.5-1mm mm in size, maybe smaller.
once you have those , called hyphal knots, pining will occur shortly and you don't need to mist so often.

as a side note : i think it's better to under mist, than to over mist.
i did overmist a test petri dish and what happened is that the mycellium got a mate surface and developed hyphal knots very slow.
still got 1 small mushroom out of it, once i stoped misting, let it dry out and just do its thing.  i suspect that further misting would have stalled it completely.

( like overwatering a plant, overdry is actually better than overwater...)

Also, for misting i noticed that the best dropplets form if i spray horizontally, above the boxes, and just let the cloud of pulverized water fall on the micellium.
- the first part of the pulverized water always has big drops, and that part just skips the micellium
- the middle and back trail of the pulverized water contains smaller, fine, dropplets.
- if the droplets are too big, or you spray directly on the micellium, it will get damaged and bruise blue .

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: AlexandrDughin]
    #28648429 - 02/06/24 04:07 AM (4 months, 17 days ago)

You're awesome man, thank you for taking the time to help me! Very good information!!

How did you do the water thing? Did you simply fill a bowl with water and then placed the containers in that?

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OfflineMwj12977
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28648454 - 02/06/24 04:51 AM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Put water directly in the bottom of the tub. Set your other tubs on a rack of some sort to keep the above the water. I’ve set tubs directly in the water and it works fine but messy when you’re trying to harvest. Focus on getting your substrate properly hydrated from the start to avoid misting. Misting should be a last resort. Also, once you have a tub set up properly only open as necessary. Constantly disturbing the tub doesn’t help the microclimate

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: Mwj12977]
    #28648715 - 02/06/24 08:58 AM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Thank you mate.

Im on my way to do this water-thing now.

Edited by PapayaKing (02/06/24 11:34 AM)

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28649798 - 02/07/24 01:13 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)

I followed your tips now, and I actually have a good feeling about this.

I filled the tub with water and cracked the lid on some of the bigger containers in the other tub.

Today i can see that the mycelium is starting to recolonize. Some big white patches that are spreading troughout the boxes.

I need more tubs for fruiting now, since I only got two tubs and 20 containers in total.

This was some really good tips! I was on my way giving up, so thank you guys. Maybe Im lucky and can get some fruits here.

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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28649980 - 02/07/24 07:56 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)

Great news :smile:
This is 3 days after you spawned it, give it about 7 more days or so and you should start seeing hyphal knots.

On my side : managed to harvest about 70 grams wet from the small boxes.

I am throwing away these boxes and i will not attempt a 2nd flush, as i have other boxes going and already pinning.

Also, ate about 23 grams wet ( should be 2.3 dry equivalent ) and it was an amazing experience.

Edited by AlexandrDughin (02/07/24 08:07 AM)

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: AlexandrDughin]
    #28650441 - 02/07/24 01:45 PM (4 months, 16 days ago)

Glad that you got some fruits out of it. It really makes me optimistic 😀

I havent had the time to get a new tub today because of work, but I will get one tomorrow. Feels like i really, really should make time to get one at latest tomorrow, or else i will have a spacing problem.

I saw some serious progress on the onces that I cracked the lid on, and the ones with a see-trough lid. It's happening a lot right now, and I need to be ready for the next step.

Exciting!!

Btw, whats your tec for drying them? Im hearing a lot of people going for a dehydrator. But I also remember having some great success with drying them with a fan (This was when I had a basic growkit that I bought in Amsterdam and brought home). But since this has been a bigger project, im not willing to risk failing at the last step.

And also, im glad that you had a good experience while munching on your mushies! :smile:

Edited by PapayaKing (02/07/24 01:46 PM)

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing] * 1
    #28651490 - 02/08/24 09:19 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

So today I got annother tub and also opened up all the boxes that were in my first tub (Removed the lid).

They all seem to have come pretty far and done a great job recolonizing.
All but one box wanted to recolonize, so I isolated it now.



So now I will keep them in my tub, and let them do their thing, and not disturb them.

My only cancern now is that I got one box that I could not fit anywhere... So I guess i have to get annother small tub from somewhere.

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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28653947 - 02/10/24 09:46 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

PapayaKing said:

Btw, whats your tec for drying them? Im hearing a lot of people going for a dehydrator. But I also remember having some great success with drying them with a fan (This was when I had a basic growkit that I bought in Amsterdam and brought home). But since this has been a bigger project, im not willing to risk failing at the last step.

And also, im glad that you had a good experience while munching on your mushies! :smile:




Thank you :smile:

The harvest was not much, so i splitted them in 2.
First half, i ate it raw.

Second half, i let it slowly dry over the heat radiator, they seemed to get pretty dry, but did not make it till the end :grin:

Decided to make tea with the second half :
NEVER AGAIN.
The tea taste was horrible, even worse than the wet fresh mushrooms.
It had the taste of used boiled socks :sick:
from now on i will just eat them dried on a slice of orange or lemon.


First half was really nice had vivid imagery with eyes opened.

Second half was much much lower in intensity
2 days in between so yes, what it is said is true : having a second experience too soon will decrease in intensity.

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: AlexandrDughin]
    #28660234 - 02/14/24 11:51 PM (4 months, 8 days ago)

Its happening! 😁


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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28661573 - 02/16/24 04:02 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

Yes !!!! :grin:
Thank you for the feedback and not giving up on the contaminated spawn.
Great job :smile:

From now on you are on the road of self sufficiency, after you take some spore prints, etc :sun:

Because this process worked for me and for you, i will add this post to my signature as an example on how to save moderately contaminated spawn :smile:

Edited by AlexandrDughin (02/16/24 04:21 AM)

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: AlexandrDughin]
    #28662606 - 02/16/24 04:50 PM (4 months, 7 days ago)

No, thank you!
You had a great idea, and it saved my grow.

Every single one of the plastic containers are showing pins now!

Many thanks to all of you for helping me out. This has been a really nice first experience, and it will be more.

Going to take a spore-print on the best looking fella and then grow some more in the future :smile:

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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28662608 - 02/16/24 04:53 PM (4 months, 7 days ago)

Pics! Pics! More Pics!

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: Triskelope] * 1
    #28663394 - 02/17/24 06:35 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Sure :smile:






I guess it's just waiting now? Or can I do something to help them, besides keeping the surface in good condition etc?

Edited by PapayaKing (02/17/24 06:42 AM)

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing] * 1
    #28667616 - 02/20/24 01:50 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Just harvested this fella today :smile:


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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing] * 1
    #28667651 - 02/20/24 02:43 AM (4 months, 3 days ago)

Beautifull :heart:
I am happy for you :smile:

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: AlexandrDughin] * 1
    #28669696 - 02/21/24 12:44 PM (4 months, 2 days ago)

Thanks for the help man. Really appriciete it :smile:



It turned out very successfully. I harvested 45 g dry from the first batch. And many more to come...

Thanks!! ❤️🍄

Edited by PapayaKing (02/22/24 03:50 PM)

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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28680699 - 02/29/24 06:43 AM (3 months, 25 days ago)

On my side, managed to get about 45 grams dried, from the contaminated ones + clean ones.

The process is still ongoing, 1st and 2nd harvests/flushes :smile:.

What concerns me is that i unfortunately had to shock them by moving them out of the boxes, and keeping the mycellium closed in bags for 3 days

This seemed to affect the yeld, but most important it seem to affect the shrooms by giving me sterile ones. :confused:.

Only 1 in 10 mushrooms or so seem to produce spores.

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OfflinePapayaKing
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: AlexandrDughin]
    #28685839 - 03/04/24 07:00 AM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Did you get any more?

Im up at 60 g dry now, and it still seem to give me more flushes. But I think it soon will stop... I throw away two boxes since they stopped giving me shrooms, and the ones i still have left, are giving me maximum 2 big shrooms per box. No contam yet, even if I used a fan in the room (My wife was feeling hot after MDMA 😄) + i vacuumed and also i removed the micropore tejp. This was 1,5 weeks ago, but it still looks healthy.

And oh man... I did 2,8 g:s... That was pure awesomness. Daaaamn 😁

Edited by PapayaKing (03/04/24 07:03 AM)

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OfflineAlexandrDughin
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Re: Two questions (Pins & too much water) [Re: PapayaKing]
    #28686709 - 03/04/24 09:06 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

As of now i have 60g's dried, after 3rd flush.
kinda lost track with flushes anyway :grin:

Meanwhile i think i used about 15g's dried in 4 sessions and i will stop for a few months, because as they say : the effect starts to disappear if used too often.

I redunked them in water and going again for a 3rd/4th flush, i want to see for how long they will still produce.

On the bright side, this experiment, let's call it, summed up to other changes that happened in my life over the last 5 years i'd say, brought me to this point that i'd call, without exagerating : Enlightening.

I will never be the same, i was reborn as a new man, a new spirit, and i was finally cured of my inability to speack to people.

While enjoying the gifts that were given to me, with gratitude, i trully can now say that this mushroom deserves the name of "Golden Teacher".

The last thing i will try to finish, is to get a successfull spawn out of my semilanceata mycellium, and at the end of april, climb back the mountain top where i found them a seed them across that plain.

I also thank you for taking your time and diligently taking care of your micellium to the point where it rewarded you with great results :smile:

At first i had some doubts it will work out as good as it did, because it was also my first experiment, but you did an awesome job ! :grin:



A gift that i received from this journey, that i want to share with you :



I wish you all the best
and may the good order be with you :smile:

Edited by AlexandrDughin (03/04/24 09:27 PM)

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