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DarkStarPsychonaut
Dr.



Registered: 10/03/20
Posts: 276
Loc: Terrapin station, space
Last seen: 1 day, 20 hours
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: elasticaltiger]
#28643405 - 02/01/24 09:27 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I store my dry fruits in mason jars with desiccant packs…but when I ran out of mason jars I used another kitchen glass jar, the kind with the metal hinge and rubber gasket and glass top. After being stored a few months, I opened the hinged jar and the mushrooms were soft again, so I know the jar isn’t air tight and they absorbed moisture from the air. They still looked and smelled totally fine, so I put them back in the dehydrator and then in an air tight mason and will not use the other glass jar again.
Would you just toss the mushrooms that were dehydrated, rehydrated by air, and dehydrated again? Or if they look and smell fine and are back to cracker dry, is it safe to assume they are safe to consume? I don’t have a shortage of fruits, so tossing them won’t hurt, but also I don’t want to toss sacred magic if they are fine.
-------------------- Noob level III here, thanks to those currently active here and those that went before for all the help!
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 7,137
Loc: In the Gills
Last seen: 1 minute, 8 seconds
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Bajazly]
#28643418 - 02/01/24 09:58 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bajazly said: I'm not smart enough to argue this but I do understand heat transfer. Lets say you heat something in a dry environment to 250, 275. 300 whatever degrees in lets say an oven, there is no steam associated with the heat but wouldn't said object that has been heat soaked then be sterilized by virtue of getting freaking hot?
That's my approach shits hot it's sterile. Sure steam transfers it better. But hot af is hot af and stuff dies. I've sterilized all sorts of tools and things in foil pouches and never once had a problem.
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tree frog
eats bugs



Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 1,556
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: elasticaltiger]
#28643559 - 02/02/24 03:34 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I know stipe says grains that are improperly hydrated don't sterilize.
I figured this was why.
Edited by tree frog (02/02/24 03:36 AM)
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Janus62
Call me Hugh



Registered: 08/27/22
Posts: 410
Loc: Midlands UK
Last seen: 13 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: tree frog]
#28643562 - 02/02/24 03:48 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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QQ - why does everyone else's millet look plump and soft, whilst mine looks like brown shotgun pellets?? I've tried no-prep, simmer and soak, thorough wash and 24 hour soak, but it's always the same :-(
I've only got inoculated jars right now, so it's not particularly clear, but the pic gives an idea of the grain size and colour.
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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arnold582


Registered: 10/30/23
Posts: 89
Loc: Mars
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Janus62]
#28643596 - 02/02/24 05:34 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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One of my caps looks odd like this. Does anyone know if this is a genetic mutation or an environmental condition (FAE, humidity, etc.)?
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fungalfrontier
Pressure cooker enthusiest



Registered: 01/14/24
Posts: 86
Loc: Over yonder
Last seen: 2 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: arnold582]
#28643610 - 02/02/24 05:59 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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So I don't have big hopes and dreams for this shoebox. Goal is just to get a couple fruits to clone out , and get nicer cultures. I'm not positive but to me that looks like cobweb all over. What would you all do ?
Don't mind the flashlight making it look orange.



-------------------- ***🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿***  
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Yahra
Meow


Registered: 03/06/23
Posts: 2,555
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 58 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: fungalfrontier]
#28643613 - 02/02/24 06:03 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Yeah, that's trash.
I'd toss it asap before it sporulates.
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fungalfrontier
Pressure cooker enthusiest



Registered: 01/14/24
Posts: 86
Loc: Over yonder
Last seen: 2 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yahra]
#28643620 - 02/02/24 06:10 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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That's what I kind of thinking. Just living in denial. I was suspicious out the gate with this one though and im super new. Thank you!
-------------------- ***🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿***  
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San Pedro Girl
Shoebox Ninja🥷




Registered: 07/17/12
Posts: 2,447
Loc: Fuck off pig!🐷
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Bajazly] 1
#28643623 - 02/02/24 06:20 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bajazly said: I'm not smart enough to argue this but I do understand heat transfer. Lets say you heat something in a dry environment to 250, 275. 300 whatever degrees in lets say an oven, there is no steam associated with the heat but wouldn't said object that has been heat soaked then be sterilized by virtue of getting freaking hot?
Correct. That’s why we can sterilize dry things like glass petris in an oven just fine. The downside of this is its less efficient. Therefore, you need a higher temp for a longer amount of time. The point of an autoclave is to sterilize items faster and at a lower temp.
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San Pedro Girl
Shoebox Ninja🥷




Registered: 07/17/12
Posts: 2,447
Loc: Fuck off pig!🐷
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: elasticaltiger] 1
#28643629 - 02/02/24 06:27 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
elasticaltiger said: Steam doesn't "enter" the jar. The HEAT transfers through the glass and heats the existing material and water inside. If steam physically entered the jar we would have overcooked mushy grains every time. The steam surrounds the jar completely to make sure the heat transfer is equal all over.
That is not how any autoclave works. Steam must be able to directly contact whatever you’re attempting to sterilize. That’s why autoclave pouches are steam permeable, autoclave cans have holes in them and why study after study shows foil wrapped instruments have venting and sterilizing issues. We definitely didn’t pioneer this. The medical field along with its billions (trillions?) of dollars in research made this one topic easy for us to research.
Except we don't use "autoclaves" which are tools for medical sterilization. We often colloquially refer to our canners as autoclaves. But they aren't the same. We use canners and glass jars and glass isn't steam permeable last I checked.
Steam DOES do the sterilization but it's the temperature of the existing water in the properly hydrated grain that does this.
That's why it's possible to dry your grains out. The water in them is vaporizing and exiting them and if the grains are TOO wet you WILL end up with pools and wet spots but it's not anything near what it would be if a half gallon of vaporized water was equally pearmeating all space previously held by air.
I'm open to being wrong but I need these basic observations explained first. I'm a pretty stupid person and stubborn to boot so I'm open to believing that there is a mechanism to explain these:
Dry verm stays dry. Grains lose water and jars don't have deep pools of vaporized water condensing inside them as the temp drops.
Do what works for you. Most of us allow the steam to fill our jars. If steam can’t get into your jar, then your jar can’t vent air. If your jar can’t vent air, then it’s not full of steam. Autoclaves use steam under pressure to kill microorganisms. While our PCs aren’t autoclaves, we’re using them as such so the distinction isn’t relevant.
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tree frog
eats bugs



Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 1,556
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: San Pedro Girl] 1
#28643640 - 02/02/24 06:47 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I don't think steam needs to enter the jar though.
Moisture in the grains turns to steam and is reabsorbed during cooling. And I think this moisture is what's doing most of the work.
Which is why improperly hydrated grains are a contamination risk as far as I understand. Also, people use unmodified metal lids. And they seem to sterilize fine.
Edited by tree frog (02/02/24 06:49 AM)
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Yahra
Meow


Registered: 03/06/23
Posts: 2,555
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 58 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: tree frog]
#28643642 - 02/02/24 06:54 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
tree frog said: Also, people use unmodified metal lids. And they seem to sterilize fine.
Unless you don't loosen them...
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San Pedro Girl
Shoebox Ninja🥷




Registered: 07/17/12
Posts: 2,447
Loc: Fuck off pig!🐷
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: tree frog] 2
#28643643 - 02/02/24 06:55 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
tree frog said: I don't think steam needs to enter the jar though.
Moisture in the grains turns to steam and is reabsorbed during cooling. And I think this moisture is what's doing most of the work.
Which is why improperly hydrated grains are a contamination risk as far as I understand. Also, people use unmodified metal lids. And they seem to sterilize fine.
No, steam doesn’t need to enter the jar. You can also sterilize grains without using a PC. I was just explaining how you should use your PC to most effectively sterilize your grains, et al, more effectively, in the shortest amount of time, and at the lowest temperature.
Using your PC to mimic an autoclave, but then denying the ridiculous library of research explaining how that works seems silly to me. Even liquids being sterilized in a PC should have steam permeable closures.
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tree frog
eats bugs



Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 1,556
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: San Pedro Girl]
#28643664 - 02/02/24 07:32 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Gotcha!
Yeah, it would definitely be more efficient. So with modified lids with a SFD I should loosen them a little is what I'm hearing?
I tend to but I thought it was more to make them easier to work with later.
Edited by tree frog (02/02/24 07:33 AM)
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San Pedro Girl
Shoebox Ninja🥷




Registered: 07/17/12
Posts: 2,447
Loc: Fuck off pig!🐷
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: tree frog]
#28643678 - 02/02/24 07:46 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
tree frog said: Gotcha!
Yeah, it would definitely be more efficient. So with modified lids with a SFD I should loosen them a little is what I'm hearing?
I tend to but I thought it was more to make them easier to work with later.
It would be best for sterilization to loosen them. However, you also have to tighten them again after the cycle, so it’s possible to contaminate them in the process. Either way works well with a filter. Even tightened, they will vent okay so do what works with your work flow.
I use unmodified lids with a full SFD underneath and keep them loose during the cycle.
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Bigworm



Registered: 03/19/22
Posts: 2,140
Loc: Murica
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Janus62] 2
#28643699 - 02/02/24 08:21 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Janus62 said: QQ - why does everyone else's millet look plump and soft, whilst mine looks like brown shotgun pellets?? I've tried no-prep, simmer and soak, thorough wash and 24 hour soak, but it's always the same :-(
I've only got inoculated jars right now, so it's not particularly clear, but the pic gives an idea of the grain size and colour.

Have you tried Reverse Fooman's WBS Tek? I use it and my millet is still normal color when done. I changed it up a bit and fill a small bucket with the WBS and really wash it well with a little bit of dish soap. Then I strain it and rinse it off really well. You would be surprised how much dirt comes off with using soap, at least with the brand I use. I increase my cooking time to 100 minutes and pressure to 18-19psi. I don't know why but I seem to have better success with that time and pressure. Also don't fill the jars more then 2/3 full before PC'ing them as the grain does still swell a bit.
Quote:
arnold582 said: One of my caps looks odd like this. Does anyone know if this is a genetic mutation or an environmental condition (FAE, humidity, etc.)?

Possibly genetic, but so many factors can cause things like that to happen it's hard to say. I would guess genetic, if my spawn was absolutely clean,and try cloning it to see if I could replicate it.
Edited by Bigworm (02/02/24 08:30 AM)
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Yahra
Meow


Registered: 03/06/23
Posts: 2,555
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 58 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Bigworm] 1
#28643712 - 02/02/24 08:34 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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That coin slot pus.. cap looks sexy.
Quote:
Also don't fill the jars more then 2/3 full before PC'ing them as the grain does still swell a bit.
Anyone knows if there's a difference between red and white, hulled and unhulled millet in swelling?
I will use red, unhulled millet soon and i wonder how much i should put in my jars.
2/3 should be fine, shouldn't it?
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fractalysis
Alien

Registered: 08/12/23
Posts: 4
Loc: Milky Way
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yahra]
#28643722 - 02/02/24 08:43 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I have spawn that is about one month old, looks vigurous now and is completly grown through but the rye was too wet (wet spots against the glass, grains looked wet inside the glass), I had the temperature at ~ 21C in the daytime only, at night temperature dropped to ~15C But regardless I noticed that 2 other Jars stalled out, when I opened them they didn‘t smell bad at all so I guess it‘s not contam but really just too much hydration.
Is there anything I would have to consider when I want to fruit this Jar instead of Grain with normal hydration?
-------------------- It would be a waste if we spent our time and energy focusing on the negative things in life, don‘t let outside circumstances define you, be present and thankful for the ride through our solar system, milky way, universe! Love the people who are there for you. Love & Peace to every Beeing
Edited by fractalysis (02/02/24 08:46 AM)
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SWBZA



Registered: 05/09/23
Posts: 207
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: fractalysis]
#28643734 - 02/02/24 09:01 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
fractalysis said: I have spawn that is about one month old, looks vigurous now and is completly grown through but the rye was too wet (wet spots against the glass, grains looked wet inside the glass), I had the temperature at ~ 21C in the daytime only, at night temperature dropped to ~15C But regardless I noticed that 2 other Jars stalled out, when I opened them they didn‘t smell bad at all so I guess it‘s not contam but really just too much hydration.
Is there anything I would have to consider when I want to fruit this Jar instead of Grain with normal hydration?
Take a look at the advice Goatrider gave me here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28613637
Go to 30 January, see what happened with coir topping. Mine was a bag, not a jar, but maybe that advice gives you an idea. Good luck
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,438
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: San Pedro Girl]
#28643736 - 02/02/24 09:07 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
San Pedro Girl said:
Quote:
tree frog said: I don't think steam needs to enter the jar though.
Moisture in the grains turns to steam and is reabsorbed during cooling. And I think this moisture is what's doing most of the work.
Which is why improperly hydrated grains are a contamination risk as far as I understand. Also, people use unmodified metal lids. And they seem to sterilize fine.
No, steam doesn’t need to enter the jar. You can also sterilize grains without using a PC. I was just explaining how you should use your PC to most effectively sterilize your grains, et al, more effectively, in the shortest amount of time, and at the lowest temperature.
Using your PC to mimic an autoclave, but then denying the ridiculous library of research explaining how that works seems silly to me. Even liquids being sterilized in a PC should have steam permeable closures.
You're right that bringing up the difference between autoclaves and canners doesn't really say anything except no one has yet to explain to me how dry verm stays dry when a real gas, filling the entire volume of the canner, is supposedly permeating evenly through and filling all empty space begins to cool and condense back into water. If this were the case the verm would slowly absorb all water it came into contact with.
Yet open your PC and take out your PF jar and voila. Your verm is dry.
PF jars are not sealed, they have actual holes with a piece of tin foil over them.
No, sorry. There's no steam physically entering your jar. The existing moisture inside your grains is where the sterilizing steam is coming from.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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