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InvisibleReverendMyc
succinct is not my forte

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yahra] * 2
    #28643034 - 02/01/24 02:15 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

I always do two rows of jars. One about half submerged and one above it well out of the water. I have never found a difference between the result in either row. Well, except that the bottom row gets hard water stains if I don't add some vinegar or citric acid.

Per my thermogodamics classes, the temperature is the same in the liquid and the gaseous states of h2o under constant pressure. Steam does have a higher thermal transfer efficiency, but that is happening inside the jar, not against the glass.

Edit: damn y'all are quick.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys tek (Gummies from sclerotia or mushrooms) *Not just for stones any more
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic



Edited by ReverendMyc (02/01/24 02:15 PM)

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OfflineYahra
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #28643042 - 02/01/24 02:18 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

I would have to lay them on their sides if i wanted to stack them.

How do you prevent entry of water into the bottom row jars?

Is wrapping the lids in aluminium foil sufficient?

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OfflineSan Pedro GirlS
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yahra] * 2
    #28643044 - 02/01/24 02:20 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Yahra said:
How dou you prevent entry of water into the bottom row jars?

Is wrapping the lids in aluminium foil sufficient?



You only need about 2-3qt of water for a 2hr PC on 10 jars. That amount shouldn’t get you close to the top of any jars. I never foil anything except a spore print, but everyone has their own methods. You’ll figure out what works for you.

Edit: just saw you say they would be on their sides. Yes, definitely raise them above water level with a trivet!


--------------------

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InvisibleReverendMyc
succinct is not my forte

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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yahra] * 1
    #28643048 - 02/01/24 02:24 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

I do 16 pints in a Presto 23. I am not familiar with your model, but I would not trust submerging any part of the lid in water. I also don't use foil, but when I did, I made sure that none of it reached down to the water. Trapped steam and water can wick up or boil up and enter the jars through filters or loose lids.


Edit: dammit, spg. you make me feel slow. :wink:


--------------------
Stoned Gummys tek (Gummies from sclerotia or mushrooms) *Not just for stones any more
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic



Edited by ReverendMyc (02/01/24 02:24 PM)

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OfflineSan Pedro GirlS
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #28643049 - 02/01/24 02:27 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

ReverendMyc said:
I do 16 pints in a Presto 23. I am not familiar with your model, but I would not trust submerging any part of the lid in water. I also don't use foil, but when I did, I made sure that none of it reached down to the water. Trapped steam and water can wick up or boil up and enter the jars through filters or loose lids.


Edit: dammit, spg. you make me feel slow. :wink:



:hahyeahwoo:


--------------------

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OfflineYahra
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #28643050 - 02/01/24 02:28 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Here are the dimensions of the pc i use (the Perfect Plus 8.5 liter variant)



If i wanted to use two rows, i need to flip the jars onto their side.

23cm height is not much.

Didn't arrive yet but i want to order jars so badly. :cool:

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InvisibleReverendMyc
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yahra]
    #28643077 - 02/01/24 02:50 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

It looks like that model can hold 4 quart jars per some reviews on Amazon. I just measured two of my wide mouth pint(~500ml) jars stacked with lids and they are just under 25 cm tall. So...


--------------------
Stoned Gummys tek (Gummies from sclerotia or mushrooms) *Not just for stones any more
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic



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OfflineYahra
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yahra] * 1
    #28643081 - 02/01/24 02:55 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

I asked ChatGPT if i can fit 3 of the 1053ml jars "circles" which have a diameter of 10cm each in a "circle" which is 22cm diameter.

It said yes.

So i order the taller ones and use them upright.

That would be approx 3 quart of spawn in each pc cycle.

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OfflineBajazly
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yahra] * 1
    #28643087 - 02/01/24 02:59 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

It's tight but should work.


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OfflineYahra
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Bajazly]
    #28643092 - 02/01/24 03:03 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Thanks for the visualization.

:grampofapproval:

I asked ChatGPT to create one for me but it refused to do so.

It said it's "text-based". What a lame excuse.

:brushrage:

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OfflineBajazly
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Yahra] * 1
    #28643096 - 02/01/24 03:08 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

I was hoping to tell ChatGPT to fuck off so I had to see for myself.

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Offlinedasteptderbar
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Bajazly]
    #28643110 - 02/01/24 03:25 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Is aerial mycelium during substrate colonization a sign that it would benefit from more air exchange? I seen a post on here where someone said it was normal/okay but I never got this on my last tub (I suspect I had too much fresh air exchange last time as it was bottom pin hell). I'm on day 5 and the growth is pretty vigorous.

It seems this is wasted energy trying to colonize the air rather than the sub?

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OnlineSmellyhobbitM
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: dasteptderbar]
    #28643113 - 02/01/24 03:29 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Nah it’s not inherently a problem. Sometimes it just does that. Some of my tubs have little clouds of fluffy myc close to the sub, and sometimes I have grass. It doesn’t mean anything by itself.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Need Spores? - Sablabs.org

Just because your tub contamed, doesn’t mean your attitude has to contam as well. :mushroom:


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: San Pedro Girl] * 2
    #28643259 - 02/01/24 06:09 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

San Pedro Girl said:
Quote:

Yahra said:
I am confused. I've read that the steam sterilizes, not the water.

Did i fall for outdated information again?

:cryaboutit:



Steam will enter your jars to transfer heat to whatever’s in it much more rapidly than air or water. The outside of the jar is fairly irrelevant. That’s why venting is so important.




Steam doesn't "enter" the jar. The HEAT transfers through the glass and heats the existing material and water inside. If steam physically entered the jar we would have overcooked mushy grains every time. The steam surrounds the jar completely to make sure the heat transfer is equal all over.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

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EZEKIEL 23:20

Edited by elasticaltiger (02/01/24 06:10 PM)

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InvisibleLemgrub
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: elasticaltiger] * 2
    #28643274 - 02/01/24 06:19 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Bod covered the dynamics of steam sterilization  in their tek 6 years ago
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24180711/vc/1#24180711


--------------------
We getting that pirate bay, alien shishkebab cordycep money

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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Lemgrub] * 2
    #28643286 - 02/01/24 06:43 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

I recall Bod corrected me on this issue, been loosening unmodified lids during PC since :shrug:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25705915#25705915

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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: LadysKnight]
    #28643315 - 02/01/24 07:15 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Dry verm layers wouldn't stay dry if steam were entering. Steam definitely exits as the pressure inside rises but what re enters during equalization is air. Once venting and pressure is achieved the steam inside is roughly homogenous. We would have soaking wet vermiculite and mushy grains and pools of water inside our jars every time if this homogenous water vapor equalized into the jars.

Why is it possible to completely torch and dry out your grains if there is roughly half to a full gallon of water equalized throughout all the space including around the grains?


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20

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OfflineSan Pedro GirlS
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #28643324 - 02/01/24 07:21 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Quote:

San Pedro Girl said:
Quote:

Yahra said:
I am confused. I've read that the steam sterilizes, not the water.

Did i fall for outdated information again?

:cryaboutit:



Steam will enter your jars to transfer heat to whatever’s in it much more rapidly than air or water. The outside of the jar is fairly irrelevant. That’s why venting is so important.




Steam doesn't "enter" the jar. The HEAT transfers through the glass and heats the existing material and water inside. If steam physically entered the jar we would have overcooked mushy grains every time. The steam surrounds the jar completely to make sure the heat transfer is equal all over.



That is not how any autoclave works. Steam must be able to directly contact whatever you’re attempting to sterilize. That’s why autoclave pouches are steam permeable, autoclave cans have holes in them and why study after study shows foil wrapped instruments have venting and sterilizing issues. We definitely didn’t pioneer this. The medical field along with its billions (trillions?) of dollars in research made this one topic easy for us to research.


--------------------

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OfflineBajazly
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: San Pedro Girl]
    #28643336 - 02/01/24 07:33 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

I'm not smart enough to argue this but I do understand heat transfer. Lets say you heat something in a dry environment to 250, 275. 300 whatever degrees in lets say an oven, there is no steam associated with the heat but wouldn't said object that has been heat soaked then be sterilized by virtue of getting freaking hot?

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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: San Pedro Girl] * 1
    #28643355 - 02/01/24 07:57 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

San Pedro Girl said:
Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Quote:

San Pedro Girl said:
Quote:

Yahra said:
I am confused. I've read that the steam sterilizes, not the water.

Did i fall for outdated information again?

:cryaboutit:



Steam will enter your jars to transfer heat to whatever’s in it much more rapidly than air or water. The outside of the jar is fairly irrelevant. That’s why venting is so important.




Steam doesn't "enter" the jar. The HEAT transfers through the glass and heats the existing material and water inside. If steam physically entered the jar we would have overcooked mushy grains every time. The steam surrounds the jar completely to make sure the heat transfer is equal all over.



That is not how any autoclave works. Steam must be able to directly contact whatever you’re attempting to sterilize. That’s why autoclave pouches are steam permeable, autoclave cans have holes in them and why study after study shows foil wrapped instruments have venting and sterilizing issues. We definitely didn’t pioneer this. The medical field along with its billions (trillions?) of dollars in research made this one topic easy for us to research.




Except we don't use "autoclaves" which are tools for medical sterilization. We often colloquially refer to our canners as autoclaves. But they aren't the same. We use canners and glass jars and glass isn't steam permeable last I checked.

Steam DOES do the sterilization but it's the temperature of the existing water in the properly hydrated grain that does this.

That's why it's possible to dry your grains out. The water in them is vaporizing and exiting them and if the grains are TOO wet you WILL end up with pools and wet spots but it's not anything near what it would be if a half gallon of vaporized water was equally pearmeating all space previously held by air.

I'm open to being wrong but I need these basic observations explained first. I'm a pretty stupid person and stubborn to boot so I'm open to believing that there is a mechanism to explain these:

Dry verm stays dry. Grains lose water and jars don't have deep pools of vaporized water condensing inside them as the temp drops.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20

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