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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Kickle]
#28639208 - 01/29/24 10:48 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Here's some thoughts:
AI learns to break the rules to achieve a goal. This is shown over and over again. Given enough attempts at a goal, breaking the system is usually the most efficient way to achieve a goal.
Imagine an AI in a maze. It will find the most efficient pathing. But then still be trying to optimize. Suddenly it discovers if it throws itself hard enough at the side of the maze it flies vertically. It tweaks it's approach to angle it's flight. Soon enough it's smashing itself into the wall at the beginning and flying to the end, avoiding the entire design of the maze.
This sort of story plays out time and again with AI modeling. AI breaks the rules of a simulation and finds unintended solutions if given enough opportunities to try. And with AI, 10,000,000,000 attempts may be just a few real world hours, so, yeah.
One hypothesis floated is that first generation AGI will inevitably create a second generation. And so on. But that inevitably what will result is a seemingly inert AI. An AI that to us seems to be doing nothing at all. When in reality we simply can not comprehend the way it has broken the rules and is operating in the world in ways we believe impossible.
Think of how magic modernity is compared to history. That's with how many generations of humans? Imagine having nearly limitless time to explore pass in a blink.
Could be some odd stuff
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 3,992
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Kickle]
#28639226 - 01/29/24 11:11 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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There is no artificial general intelligence. That is one fraudulent idea placed into the sphere of a completely different field of knowledge. Intelligence, experience, which must be intelligent otherwise it dies -- and all intelligence is is the accumulation of phenomeno-experiential data, requires cells. If a computer will eventually have dna, okay. Intelligence as we experience it, as our brains and all brains require, is much more than computation. It will not just spontaneously generate. It has always been and will always be - as long as 'been' and 'be' are.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ the Dutch gay purge & pogrom 𝕴𝖓 𝖓𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝖇𝖔𝖓𝖎 𝖕𝖊𝖘𝖘𝖎𝖒𝖎 𝖒𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖗𝖚𝖒 𝖋𝖎𝖚𝖓𝖙. mēns super rēs the truth of the Kykeon
Edited by Blue_Lux (01/29/24 11:17 AM)
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28639241 - 01/29/24 11:23 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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AGI is a metric. Similar to LSAT tests being a metric for knowledge of the law. There is no hurdle to testing it. It's based around the way humans have a generalized knowledge in many areas.
If an AI demonstrates knowledge in this same way, it would be described as AGI
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Kickle]
#28639256 - 01/29/24 11:41 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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The illusion of intelligence is not intelligence. Experience is intelligence, not physical causality in a robot we programmed, which gives the appearance of something we have. Furthermore, everything written by AI sucks. It is poor writing. Everything good is just something copied. It cannot come up with anything on its own.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ the Dutch gay purge & pogrom 𝕴𝖓 𝖓𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝖇𝖔𝖓𝖎 𝖕𝖊𝖘𝖘𝖎𝖒𝖎 𝖒𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖗𝖚𝖒 𝖋𝖎𝖚𝖓𝖙. mēns super rēs the truth of the Kykeon
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Kickle
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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28639278 - 01/29/24 11:52 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quibble with yourself on those points. We have models which perform in their respective modalities at high percentile human levels [on standardized tests/competitions]. One model that is able to perform across multiple modalities the way specialized ones are able to would be a show of applying generalized knowledge. That's what AGI stands for.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Kickle]
#28639363 - 01/29/24 12:57 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Yeah, but it's illusory and misleading.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ the Dutch gay purge & pogrom 𝕴𝖓 𝖓𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝖇𝖔𝖓𝖎 𝖕𝖊𝖘𝖘𝖎𝖒𝖎 𝖒𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖗𝖚𝖒 𝖋𝖎𝖚𝖓𝖙. mēns super rēs the truth of the Kykeon
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Kickle
Wanderer



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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28639399 - 01/29/24 01:18 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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As illusory as any definition of intelligence which relies on knowledge as a metric. Some people argue this more than others.
In the field of machine learning, it is a functional definition of intelligence not a philosophical one aimed at declaring the nature of intelligence.
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Blue_Lux
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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Kickle]
#28639531 - 01/29/24 03:06 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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There are other problematic implications, ramifications, which I didn't mention.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ the Dutch gay purge & pogrom 𝕴𝖓 𝖓𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝖇𝖔𝖓𝖎 𝖕𝖊𝖘𝖘𝖎𝖒𝖎 𝖒𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖗𝖚𝖒 𝖋𝖎𝖚𝖓𝖙. mēns super rēs the truth of the Kykeon
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28639582 - 01/29/24 03:44 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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So far we are the AGI's we have not yet got a handle on ourselves.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28639586 - 01/29/24 03:47 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: So far we are the AGI's we have not yet got a handle on ourselves.
its hard to measure watercolors painted on a river
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Asante] 1
#28639798 - 01/29/24 06:17 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Train station. This is where we learn to become conscious. I think there are a couple lessons to learn here, but this feels like puberty level. Not end of the line. Not even close.
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Blue_Lux
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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Asante] 1
#28639851 - 01/29/24 07:17 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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I think this is both a transit station and the end of the line. I think what happens here stays here. I think at the end of the timeline of our lives exists a different timeline. I think what meaningfully happens was meant to happen. I think each moment is to write a reality for the universe. We are meant to capture the moment, and make it the best moment. Sculpt the best image into the marble. I think there is something beyond what we can comprehend about existence, and I think psychedelics show this. I truly think we are all interconnected at some very deep level. I don't know how to put it without it sounding mystical. But it is what it is.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ the Dutch gay purge & pogrom 𝕴𝖓 𝖓𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝖇𝖔𝖓𝖎 𝖕𝖊𝖘𝖘𝖎𝖒𝖎 𝖒𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖗𝖚𝖒 𝖋𝖎𝖚𝖓𝖙. mēns super rēs the truth of the Kykeon
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,988
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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: Kickle]
#28639884 - 01/29/24 07:45 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Here's some thoughts:
AI learns to break the rules to achieve a goal. This is shown over and over again. Given enough attempts at a goal, breaking the system is usually the most efficient way to achieve a goal.
Imagine an AI in a maze. It will find the most efficient pathing. But then still be trying to optimize. Suddenly it discovers if it throws itself hard enough at the side of the maze it flies vertically. It tweaks it's approach to angle it's flight. Soon enough it's smashing itself into the wall at the beginning and flying to the end, avoiding the entire design of the maze.
This sort of story plays out time and again with AI modeling. AI breaks the rules of a simulation and finds unintended solutions if given enough opportunities to try. And with AI, 10,000,000,000 attempts may be just a few real world hours, so, yeah.
One hypothesis floated is that first generation AGI will inevitably create a second generation. And so on. But that inevitably what will result is a seemingly inert AI. An AI that to us seems to be doing nothing at all. When in reality we simply can not comprehend the way it has broken the rules and is operating in the world in ways we believe impossible.
Think of how magic modernity is compared to history. That's with how many generations of humans? Imagine having nearly limitless time to explore pass in a blink.
Could be some odd stuff
Solid Af.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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blessed


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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28640012 - 01/29/24 10:25 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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I used to wonder why humanity would spend millions and billions of dollars to look for intelligence in space (amongst other reasons), and it just didn't make sense to me, until recently when it dawned on me, the reason we look into space for intelligence is because there's none here.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,988
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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: blessed]
#28640058 - 01/30/24 12:52 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line?
'Station or end of the line?
Since when was life so cut and dry?
Tricksy bottomless pit of a cacophonous false dichotomy!
If I may... I'd go with...
Something sizzling hot chilling hard while middled into so far in it bursts through back out anew as maximized. Simultaneously from all over about in every which way. Something befitting the combinatorial wonders of nature's marvelous reconfigurability...prefer*ably.
@ Sudly, if you're reading along:
Ha. Ik. Ik...too much waxing thicc with the poetic on that one, yikes. Sue me. 
However, if possible... I would like to observe what the almighty AI-Mediated Cognitive Insight bot you've got might attempt to make of the above italicized portion of my post.
Especially curious if it is capable of wearing off the extra wax, seeing as, its not a traditional standard written english styled post, it being not only both a question and an answer to this thread's titular question, plus a rebuttal to Blessed's post, but also an answer to your last . How about them apples?  

p.s. Kickle's last post here give me an inkling of deja vu as to the madness of rummaging through boxes of notes to try and find the 3rd page of my private notes as to the [Sltn:Fxn] debacle. Something about it rang a bell. Not that I'm interested in going there again, but if you haven't already fed it to your pet AI project, , might as well throw it in too and see what happens?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,499
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Re: Humans: are we a transit station or the end of the line? [Re: blessed]
#28640308 - 01/30/24 08:48 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
blessed said: I used to wonder why humanity would spend millions and billions of dollars to look for intelligence in space (amongst other reasons), and it just didn't make sense to me, until recently when it dawned on me, the reason we look into space for intelligence is because there's none here.
hahaha...
More life however of any kind would be very gratifying, and if intelligent, we could learn a thing or two, so there is that.
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