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Worldwide Stepper Registered: 10/30/09 Posts: 31,378 Loc: House of Mirrors Last seen: 10 days, 12 hours |
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I don't recall voicing agreement
I shared a slightly tangential anecdote
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τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής Registered: 12/07/19 Posts: 2,419 Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff |
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Well... Recall.
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Pennywise Registered: 10/01/12 Posts: 2,356 Last seen: 3 days, 7 hours |
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Quote: Oh no! I'm being ignored by a person obnoxious enough to feel he needs to publically announce the fact he is ignoring me to the whole forum! -------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,051 Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours |
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After reading pages 21 thru 23, I see that one person was equating the effects of "eating the seeds" with the same nausea as an alcohol extraction of the seeds, this is completely untrue, as a wine extract of the seeds will exert zero nausea. This is so easy to do, with pics shown below, yes this will work with HBWR seeds if you prefer to use instead of MG seeds, this easy process will also completely eliminate the nausea.
But keep this in mind: Northerner said Quote: No you do not want to really use HBWR seeds. You can use HBWR seeds, but please keep the dose low as there is a lot of ergometrine in HBWR seeds that cause cramping and vasoconstriction, MG has only traces of it. It's a balancing act if you use HBWR seeds, but they will work. 2016 Polish morning glory study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm In closing: morning glory compared with HBWR: Please keep in mind that HBWR has high levels of ergometrine, causes cramping and vasoconstriction, ergometrine levels in morning glory for comparison is very low. Also, HBWR has no history of Shamanic use, whereas morning glory seed usage goes back several hundreds of years. HBWR only has history of medicinal use. HBWR also has high levels of LSA, very sedating and not really all that psychedelic at all. But yes, all studies published after 2011 indicate that no LSH has been found yet in HBWR. Interestingly, when a boy was found dead at the bottom of his apartment building (he jumped out, apparently this really does happen), they detected levels of LSH or Lysergic acid Hydroxyethylamide in his blood, he had also been drinking heavily and taking HBWR seeds that night. Here is the actual toxicology study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov hxxps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ Remember, LSH is just a labile (unstable) adduct of LSA + acetaldehyde which can remain stable in acidic solutions, for example: outside the body in ph=4.0 cold fresh just opened sherry wine solution (under 70 degree F so the acetaldehyde does not boil off), and sherry is high in acetaldehyde. And you have to seal off the wine with a ten dollar wine preservation canister of inert argon gas (from *mazon with enough gas to last years of sealing) you shoot into the bottle, before placing back into the fridge, to keep the acetaldehyde from decomposing to vinegar via oxidation. Keep cold at all times. Whether this forms outside the liver as well as within is a whole nother discussion. This is the paper that shows the alkaloid content of HBWR is vastly different from the alkaloid content of morning glory: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71. No high levels of stimulating LSH, agroclavine, elymoclavine, chanoclavine, penniclavine found in HBWR seeds, only in morning glory seeds. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest minimal: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine. Sandgrease: Quote: Nogal: Quote: attached: from the Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants by Ratsch, Aztec and Mayan: morning glory are usually added to alcoholic drinks. Forensic tests have shown that LSH (LSA + acetaldehyde adduct = LSH) does indeed reach the brain and was found in bloodstream and urine of 2 teenagers, so it does remain stable and reach the brain: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov I've had numerous pm's to condense the tek onto 1 page with pics, as lots of people are wanting to try this, so here it is...print this out and carry it with you and study it, it's super easy and fast I promise. COMPLETE TEK ON HOW TO MAKE LSH and LSI combo or just LSI (your preference) on this one page with supporting studies, very simple: Self trip with 600 seeds: Quote: If you only have a few HBWR seeds, you can mix them for a few minutes with pure peppermint oil drops, see post #1 for recommendation on how many drops of pure peppermint oil to use, or just read below. This trip report from Kash (long time LSA master) below is taken from post #3 of the beginning of this thread....keep in mind that LEMON JUICE also contains isovaleraldehyde, my best trip report using just a few HBWR was when I mixed them with fresh lemon juice from the fridge for a while, then consumed. Do not use the cheap grocery store peppermint alcohol extract, instead buy real Peppermint oil max dosage: Adults: 0.2 to 0.4 mL (4 drops to 8 drops max for adults, DO NOT EXCEED: https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/i I still don't recommend using HBWR but it will still work to form LSI, see post #2 at very beginning of this thread: all about why this is so (MG vs HBWR seeds)...the main reason is that HBWR contains high amounts of ergometrine which causes cramping and vasoconstriction...whereas MG only has traces of it, I've used MG up to 25g and still no cramping or vasoconstriction. You can get way higher on MG seed LSI whereas with HBWR you will start to experience the somatic side effects of cramping way sooner due to the ergometrine if you are not careful on dosage, it's a balancing act with HBWR. Psychonauts (psychedelic astronauts): you can still find isovaleraldehyde out there, you just have to look, try looking for the 25ml bottle. Kash: Quote: p.s if you read post #2, you will see that ALL the best MG trip reports involved adding fresh lemon juice, examples below, this is because LEMON JUICE ALSO contains isovaleraldehyde: vespiary: Quote: Hermes (Lycaeum): Quote: My comment: Lemon juice also contains ISOVALERALDEHYDE just like peppermint leaf. Hermes (lycaeum March 2003) on morning glory visuals & strength, extracted into cold distilled water with a squirt of lemon juice: Quote: My comment: lemon juice contains isovalearaldehyde as well. Nogal (the Nook): Quote: My comment: lemon juice contains isovalearaldehyde as well. dmthead420: Quote: Norman, mycotopia, said on 16 September 2019: Quote: Red22: Quote: ItBeBasidia Posted 14 December 2020, he posted in the "morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD like drugs, soluble in alcohol or wine, only slightly soluble in water" thread at Mycotopia: Quote: Easy steps, I've used this process over two dozen times in a 2 year period, it works with zero nausea: ---> You can even drink this LSH and LSI enhanced liquid extract at the same time you drop your LSD for an experience that is way beyond LSD, the LSH and LSI adds infinite dimensions to the normal LSD experience, like incredible (I mean phenomenal !) music enhancement, every sound in the music is "epic", infinite beauty enhancement, strong sensual feelings, strong neon like color saturation, flowing visuals, energy fields seen in constant motion around all objects, heavy tracers, etc. These qualities LSH and LSI adds are very similar to what cactus tea adds in my experience when added to LSD. This is most likely due to LSH and LSI hitting 5 more adrenal recpetors associated with beauty, aesthetics and sensuality beyond normal LSD, see radioligand chart for LSH. I used this potion every time I tripped, you can even add it to cactus tea by taking drinking the LSH potion 1 hour later (always stagger 1 hour so the amides do not clash with the trace maoi's in cactus, only take in that order) it's incredible. -------------------------------- --> How to make the ZERO NAUSEA morning glory wine which is used for all aldehyde experiments, example: forming LSH and LSI from the LSA in the seeds: <-- How this works, from 2022 aldehydes paper, see 1960's study by Arcamone, go to post #1 to read all the studies (5 papers). LSH and LSI do make it to the bloodstream and urine, so it does indeed reach the brain so long as you keep it in it's original state (in acidic wine so it does not decompose back to LSA which will happen in plain water or nonacidic solutions) store in fridge or freeze in freezer to keep forever, drink as so. Pic 1: Sherry wine is the wine highest in acetaldehyde. Pic 2: With only a lamp on in garage, no overhead bright light: grind 15 grams or 525 heavenly blue morning glory seeds in a coffee grinder (35 seeds per gram) using 10 second grind with occasional shaking of coffee grinder, pause 5 seconds, then grind again 10 seconds, repeat x 4 times, you will end up with a dust like consisteny, all the alkaloids are extracted from within the tough rubbery embryo of the seed. 525 seeds x .01mg LSA per seed = 5mg LSA Pic 3: Place ground seed dust into a 1/2 pint tall jar (*almart case of 12, canning section), add 4 shots of cold just opened fresh sherry wine from the fridge, and around 30mg of DL tartaric acid which aids the extraction (from hi media store, *mazon, auction or similar). Do not use plain L-tartaric acid used in wine making, get the good stuff, which contains the D isomer. D-lyergic acid amide isomer salts are the potent form of salts. And also ADD a tiny splash or 1 to 2 teaspoons of acetic acid or VINEGAR (I use apple cider vinegar) to catalyze the condensations of the aldehyde to LSA: acetaldehyde in this case onto the amide of LSA, and isovaleraldehyde to form LSI. The vinegar acts as an important catalyst as it contains acetic acid, and speeds the formation of new adduct product, see study below: From Mehra, R.K & Panya, K.C. 1938, The condensation of aldehydes with amides - part III, the condensation of cinnamaldehyde with acetamide. Proc Natl Acad Sci India Phys Sci 7(6). 376-380 NOTE: from paper: Acetamide (very similar to LSA) when cinnamaldehyde adduct added, forms: N,N'cinnamylidenediacetamide just as LSA + isovaleraldehyde forms LSI or Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide. RATS RESPOND TO it as if they had been given LSD, and this human rat loves the effects, the closest thing in nature I've ever experienced that is very similar to LSD. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE !!! ![]() ![]() ![]() Cinnamaldehyde should not be used as it contains nearly twice the number of carbons and hydrogens and thus weak activity due to this (weights way too much)...only use isovaleraldehyde (weight is perfect) to form the potent LSI. However, I am showing the study so that you see an even "longer chain aldehyde than isovalearaldehyde" will even adduct onto acetamide or LSA as proven in study. YOU WILL LOVE LSI, it is so very similar to LSD !!! Re-seal your sherry wine by spraying wine preservation canister which has inert gas (contains argon, carbon dioxide, etc.) around ten dollars from *mazon into your wine before sealing with cork and placing back in fridge, this way the precious acetaldehyde in the wine will not oxidize to vinegar as normally happens over a 5 day period when corked without preserving. Put lid on and shake contents for 1 to 2 minutes. Place jar into fridge for 10 minutes after the 2 minute shaking, during this time the nauseating seed debris can be seen falling to the bottom. Pic 4: Filter entire contents of jar thru a "coffee wire filter" from *almart or *amazon or your local grocery store sitting atop a glass, the liquid above the seed debris will filter real fast in seconds, then filter the debris at the bottom from the jar, once the debris is in basket, use a spoon to press down on it to get all the liquid out, this only takes around 10 seconds. Pic 5: Place this filtered liquid in the fridge for 3 hours or even overnight, within 3 hours, all of the nauseating to the intestines seed debris will have fallen to the bottom. This process begins within an hour after sitting in fridge, check each hour and watch as the seed debris falls by around an inch each hour. Pic 6: After 3 hours or longer, decant the liquid from above the bottom 1/4" of seed debris, this is what you want to consume, it is psychedelic and results in zero nausea, as there is no seed debris in it. DO NOT DRINK the SEED DEBRIS at very bottom or you will become nauseated and sick, don't worry, there are no alkaloids in it. Note: never try to extract your seeds using just plain acidified water, I have tried this before, your seed debris will not separate out in the fridge, and you end up with a complete emulsion in the coffee wire filter which will not filter at all, wine is needed to effect the proper extraction, and allows the liquid to separate from the seed emulsion below, this will not happen with a plane water extration. This is how the ancient Aztec and Mayan extracted the seeds using balche, an alcohol they made themselves, see 2nd pic. Rest of the pics: sources of isovaleraldehyde: pure chemical (on line 25ml bottle) or you can use fresh lemon juice or pure peppermint oil, I prefer to use the pure chemical. Use ice bath on your stirrer to keep wine as a combo of LSH + LSI (as LSH adduct acetaldehyde boils off at room temp, so always keep cold, to form LSI only, omit the ice bath, as LSI does not boil off till 198 degree F). All the alkaloids are concentrated in the fridge decanted liquid above the seed debris. This contains your LSA which has adducted to the acetaldehyde in the wine, forming new amounts of LSH, since the wine is at ph=4, the new LSH adduct product will remain stable indefinately, store in fridge if you plan to use within a few days, or you can freeze and de-thaw in fridge overnight to use next day. It dethaws fast since it is wine. You just formed LSH using the method above, to form LSI, simply take your 4 shot morning glory wine, and at this point add your 3 drops of isovaleraldehyde along with 1 to 2 teaspoons apple cider vinegar (if you don't have the pure chemical then add teaspoon or more of lemon juice, or several drops of pure peppermint oil) to form new molecule similar to LSD in every way. Be sure to spin for around 1 hour at high speed. I always use the pure chemical as I have it. Don't forget to add the apple cider vinegar as it contains the acetic acid catalyst which speeds up the adduct chemical reaction. -------------------------------- References: Lysergic acid Isovaleraldemide, LSI The aldehyde in peppermint oil and leaf and lemon juice is Isovaleraldehyde otherwise known as 3-methylbutanal. If you are a business or researcher you can order it directly, there are also two places that sell direct to individuals, just google it. They delivered it straight to my door, one place starts with a "*******" All you need to add is two drops of this to your LSA sherry wine liquid extract as it spins on the stir mantel for 1 hour at high speed, also must add 1 teaspoon of either vinegar or apple cider vinegar (my preference), as the acetic acid in the vinegar is the catalyst for the condensation of the isovaleraldehyde onto the LSA forming Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide, see study above. There is .01mg LSA in 100 seeds (.01 x 100 = 1mg LSA), just a 100 seed extract has effects very similar to 100ug of LSD, LSI is 1/10th the potency of LSD. Immense visual power with closed eye geometrics, wild colors, music sounds bad ass, divine healing power. I have prepared an extract with 200 seeds and the strength increases similar to 200ug of acid. I have been tripping my ass off every 14 days or so taking this LSI liquid extract around 1 hour after a very small bridgesii tea prepared with only 450 grams of bridgesii cactus chuncks from around the core (around 225mg mescaline), as I love the combo of cactus + LSD, this is no different. Yes, I have tried LSI many times without the cactus, super potent, highly recommend. I will be using LSI for the rest of my life. This aldehyde is completely safe and has been administered in high does to rats with no ill effects. This aldehyde as you can see from paper makes up a substantial part of peppermint oil and leaf. More on LSI: chemical formula for entry #16....3-aminopentane = CH(C2 H5)2 chemical formula for isovaleraldehyde is (CH3)2 CH2 CH2 CHO Notice isovaleraldehyde even LOOKS EARILY similar to the tale end of psilocin or DMT with nearly the same exact chemical formula as the tail end of psilocin or DMT, see pics in middle ![]() diethylamine from LSD has 4 carbon groups and 11 hydrogen groups with a molecular weight of 73 g/mol. Both the 3-aminopentane and the isovaleraldehyde of this new discovery have 5 carbon groups and 11 hydrogen groups (once the aldehyde attaches to the H already at the amide of LSA) and BOTH have exact same molecular weights of 87 g/mol similar to diethylamine molecular weight of LSD at 73g/mol. The 3-aminopentane from Dr. Nichols and isovaleraldehyde discovery join at the R1 substitute of LSA with R=H still. This new aldehyde has same molecular weight as 3-aminopentane on the R1 substitute of LSA with R=H, see Dr. Nichol's paper on page 84, chart shown. This is one of only 2 entries in which the rats responded to it (3-aminopentane) as if they had been given LSD. Dr Nichols: Quote: 3-aminopentane has a potency in the drug discrimination behavioral assay of 52 nanomoles per kilogram of rat body weight, this is very similar to the 48 nanomoles per kg of rat body weight observed with LSD. Last several pics: Home grown fresh potent mg seeds....if you can't grow them yourself, buy them on-line in bulk and store in freezer to keep potent until you use...also shown: the priest may have made LSI from claviceps paspali ergot (same alkaloid profile as the mesoamerican morning glory) as it grows it the famous Rarian plane adjacent to Eleusis, and served it for 2,000 years in ancient Greece to the psychedelic initiates (hundreds of people drank it at once every Sept). The Kykeon brew was known to contain ergot and fresh peppermint (contains isovaleraldehyde) all mixed together for some time. This easily made brew could have easily fed hundreds of people. Other topics: Alchemy chemistry fun: Compilation of pan cyan or panaeolus cyanescens or copeandia cyanescens trip reports, crown jewel of mushrooms: https://www.shroomery.org/forum How to extract 2.4g dmt from 170g bark using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (heat and break resistant), post #15: https://mycotopia.net/topic/111 Tetrahydroharmine or THH and how to make her, Caapi visionary feminine teaching spirit: https://www.shroomery.org/forum Zero nausea HPBCD or aloe vera enhanced penetration Ayahuasca capsules: https://www.shroomery.org/forum Cactus tea before waterpark to beat the heat: https://www.shroomery.org/forum Make your own 1-acetaldehyde LSD at home from LSD, very similar to ALD-52 or the real orange sunshine: https://www.shroomery.org/forum LSD high dose trip: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman: https://www.shroomery.org/forum On my very first pan cyan mushroom trip, where I went to a house music club tripping with friends, I viewed laser light patterns on the floor of the club, where the women danced, I believe the mushrooms showed me how to form never before seen patterns, as went I went home, over the next several months, I built my own 6 channel audio generator that when these combined frequencies (3 on x channel and 3 on y channel) were sent to a laser x and y galvanometer, were able to produce brand new laser patterns such as collapsing circles and spinning lines 360 degrees which looked beyond belief in the fog as 3-d, I then went on to market these laser scanners to clubs on the strip, and they were a huge success...I owe this creative invention to the mushrooms which sparked new creative energies, way beyond thought, from a higher source where the mushrooms tap into. My love for house music stems back to those days of visiting many clubs as an entertainment laser lighting fixture creator and programmer and making friends with the many DJ's. Over the summer myself and friends were lifeguards at the local water park. But on the weekends we went to parties or house music clubs. https://soundcloud.com/discover https://www.friskyradio.com/ https://jaytechmusic.podbean.co Edited by tregar (02/14/24 08:42 PM)
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Nobody Registered: 04/14/22 Posts: 1,000 Loc: Terra Firma |
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Quote: And from your post about this at another forum: Quote: So, that study you are talking about. If you actually read it you would know they found LSH in the Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds that were involved. Here is a quote from the paper about that event: Quote: You claim there is no proof that HBWR has LSH and then keep talking about a case study that found LSH in HBWR. I think that the quality of your information may improve if you read the papers you post about.
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,051 Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours |
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The chemist Peter Webster believed that all the alkaloids in morning glory exist as the hydroxyethylamide and it is the apparent extraction process that has us believe otherwise. The only way to keep the LSH molecule intact is to extract it and store it in acidic levels such as wine, this is why the ancient mayan and aztec always extracted the seeds into alcohol, otherwise LSH turns into LSA.
Yes, I've purchased and read the actual HBWR study that found no levels of LSH in it at all. I sadly had the paper stored on another lap top that bit the dust, otherwise I'd post the study.
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Nobody Registered: 04/14/22 Posts: 1,000 Loc: Terra Firma |
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Quote: Things like penniclavine, agroclavine and elymoclavine don't exist as hydroxyethylamide adducts and are psychoactive alkaloids found in several Ipomoea species. Look at depictions of these molecules. They don't even have the amine group that is involved with LSH. How can these alkaloids found in Ipomoea species be in that form when it isn't even possible? Quote: If you read the literature about the history of the use of these seeds you would know that cold water extractions of ground seeds is a documented method of traditional extraction in Mexico. Quote: Why not actually read the study you keep talking about where the person fell to their death? I posted a link to it in my comment above, it is even stored here at the Shroomery as a PDF! In that study they found LSH in the seeds of HBWR. You keep claiming that it isn't in the seeds and then keep talking about a case where they found that it was! And they also found LSH in the blood and urine. You literally just wrote that LSH needs to be kept acidic or it is destroyed. Blood is typically at a pH of 7.35 to 7.45. That isn't acidic. Tregar, if you look at the molecules, learn some chemistry and read some of the literature about the history of use of these plants then the information you present on this topic could potentially be accurate one day. Right now that is demonstrably not the case.
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,051 Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours |
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It was Gröger who first discovered LSH in the seeds, published in his 1963 paper "Über das Vorkommen von Ergolinderivaten in Ipomoea-Arten". Later also Hofmann then extracted it from the seeds. It probably was in 1967, as Heim wrote in his work from August 1967 that Hofmann said he recently extracted it from the seeds (personal communication, as they knew each other very well).
LSH does make it to the brain, as injections of LSH remain stable in blood as confirmed by these studies: LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide hits the 2 receptors 5-ht2b & 5-ht2c below + 9 other receptors, if you follow: http://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D36 In the above, LSH injection was made into a human and the scientist followed the receptors it activated. see Glasser A (January 1961). "Some pharmacological actions of LSH or D-lysergic acid methyl carbinolamide,". Nature. 189 (4761): 313–4. Bibcode: 1961, Nature. Glasser in 1961 noticed animals became stimulated when injected with LSH. Dr. Glasser said some of the mice even stood on their hine legs and pressed on the noses of the mice in front of them, very peculiar. Sorry Nillion, thanks for the discussion...I meant to mention the alkaloids LSA and LSH and the iso's have the ability to exist as the hydroxyethylamide or as LSA if it looses the adduct: Ergot Alkaloids and Ergolines from Convolvulacea: Chemical Name Alternative Names d-Lysergic acid amide (Ergine) d-iso-Lysergic acid amide (iso-Ergine) Lysergic acid-alpha-hydroxyethylamine iso-Lysergic acid-alpha-hydroxyethylamine Ergonovine (Ergometrine) Ergonovinine (Ergometrinine) Chanoclavine-I Chanoclavine-II Penniclavine Elymoclavine Agroclavine chemist Peter Webster: Quote:LSH consist of LSA + a labile adduct of acetaldehyde, it is unstable and requires the correct conditions to remain LSH in extraction fluids...I use wine at ph=4, a wine high in acetaldehyde like sherry wine, cold conditions as acetaldehyde boils off at 70 degree F. Pic below from "the encyclopedia of psychoactive plants": the seeds of morning glory are normally extracted into balche, an alcohol the Mayan and Aztec made themselves: I believe the phrase people keep repeating about the natives extracting into water using just a bottlecap full of seeds and grinding, which I have read myself over and over from a single source written into a single early book by Shultz is misguided and could possibly have been false information... ...this phrase by morningloryseed confirms the tea made with water will not give you a trip, I've never tripped on any mg extracted into plane water myself as well (this changes if you acidify the water to ph=4 using dl tartaric acid, not to mention but trying to extract with water will just give you a giant emulsion which will no separate...I've tried it myself...whereas I have extracted into wine dozens of time with zero emulsion, the alkaloids are driven into the wine and separate easily from the tiny 1/4" layer of debris mush at the bottom, as detailed in the pic writeup I give. morningloryseed (bluelight): ---------------------------- Quote: -------------------------------- My comment on this, please don't eat the seeds, this will cause intense nausea, several teens even ended up in the emergency room after eating the seeds. The ancient Aztec and Mayan never ate the seeds, they extracted into balche, a beer they made. The alcohol extract will extract all the alkaloids from the seeds so you don't have to eat them, zero nausea. The cold liquid extract will give you trips as powerful as morningloryseed experienced and beyond. When people trip off ergometrine (highest alkaloid in HBWR), they are experiencing trips as detailed in this report by Bigwood, note the lack of euphoria and extreme vasoconstriction and cramping, most considered it to not be psychedelic, HBWR also contains high levels of LSA which is sedating. 3 experimenter's effects when ingesting pure ergonovine, another name for ergometrine (found in HBWR), June 1979 Journal of Psychedelic Drugs, morning glory contains very low levels of ergometrine at only .03% whereas HBWR seeds contain .17% (quite high), ergometrine causes cramping and vasoconstriction, see below: Quote: In closing: morning glory compared with HBWR: Please keep in mind that HBWR has high levels of ergometrine, causes cramping and vasoconstriction, ergometrine levels in morning glory for comparison is very low. Also, HBWR has no history of Shamanic use, whereas morning glory seed usage goes back several hundreds of years. HBWR only has history of medicinal use. HBWR also has high levels of LSA, very sedating and not really all that psychedelic at all. But yes, all studies published after 2011 indicate that no LSH has been found yet in HBWR. This is the paper that shows the alkaloid content of HBWR is vastly different from the alkaloid content of morning glory: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71. No high levels of stimulating LSH, agroclavine, elymoclavine, chanoclavine, penniclavine found in HBWR seeds, only in morning glory seeds. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest minimal: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine. Sandgrease: Quote: Nogal: Quote: LSA adducts: https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki A couple trips using wine to extract collected from others (not myself): Stripper and Todd Skinner's girfriend Krystal Cole's claviceps paspali (same alkaloid profile as the powerful Mesoamerican morning glory) ergot wine experience from Chapter 17 THE BLOOD OF CHRIST from the book "Lysergic": Quote: ItBeBasidia Posted 14 December 2020 (he posted in the "morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD like drugs, soluble in alcohol or wine, only slightly soluble in water" thread at Mycotopia): Quote: https://erowid.org/experiences/ Quote: dmthead420: Quote: Norman, mycotopia, said on 16 September 2019: Quote:
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Nobody Registered: 04/14/22 Posts: 1,000 Loc: Terra Firma |
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Quote: From the wikipedia page about the Brain Blood Barrier: Quote: The Barrier prevents many things in the blood from reaching the brain. The idea that you have, that if the chemical is in the blood then it reaches the brain, shows that you need to learn more about the barrier itself. It may be that LSH can enter the brain but I think that claim needs more evidence before it is presented as a fact. You already presented it as a fact that LSH needs acidic conditions or it is unstable and I pointed out that blood is not acidic. Sorry if this is too aggressive or rude, but I study this topic a lot and have been rather frustrated with the information you keep putting out. Like the idea that the Aztec only used alcohol to extract Ipomoea seeds. It shows that you aren't familiar with Pulque or Chicha or the documented traditional preparation of grinding the seeds and using a cold water extraction on them. Surely you have seen that the cold water preparation method was even photographed in Mexico among natives. Why would you ever claim that alcohol was the only thing used? I've not read any evidence that it was used to extract and the forms of alcohol used by the Aztec went bad fast and were only fermented for a day or two and were not stored. They don't keep long at all. I don't have the time or the interest in continuing to address the many misconceptions in your posts, but many decades from now people are going to be dealing with the bad info you keep putting out today. You weren't nearly this bad at this 25 years ago. What happened to you man? I recall you reading and posting things as theory and asking questions back then and now today you present unproven concepts as fact. I used to enjoy reading your posts but over the last 20 years they turned into something like psychedelic tabloid articles. I'll probably not engage you again after this, no offense intended but I am not really interested in debating the topic with you. I'd just love to see you add the words "in theory" or "I think that" to things that are not proven. I'd also like you to read the papers you comment about and advise that learning about things like the blood carrying molecules to the brain and the biology of that could be useful to you. Your curiosity and drive to learn is a powerful asset that can work in your favor, but in theory that requires a more careful approach, or so I think. Carry on old friend.
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,051 Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours |
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Check out the super high levels of the CLAVINE called PENNICLAVINE (stimulating and most likely psychedelic according to 2 studies) found in heavenly blue morning glory seeds, also see high levels of LSH detected:
attached: "several alkaloids in morning glory found just as stimulating as LSD in animal experiments" Yet another reason to extract with acidic water such as wine or water acidfied with lemon juice or DL tartaric acid, as most of these very stimulating clavines are only very slightly soluble in plain water: From "The Alkaloids: Chemistry and Physiology", page 32: -------------------------------- "Penniclavine and Agroclavine are readily soluble in organic acids, penniclavine and agroclavine are stable to acids", wine stands as one of the sources of organic acids. Page 33 "Elymoclavine is only somewhat soluble in water". Peter Webster states in "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, the Secrets of Eleusis" in the morning glory chapter that Chanoclavine is soluble in alcohol. From the 1957 paper "Extraction and Identification of Clavine and Lysergic acid alkaloids from morning glory": -------------------------------- All members of the excitor group produced in all test animals a syndrome of central sympathetic excitation and elicited a stimulation of spontaneous activity. In this group, elymoclavine was the most potent stimulant and next come agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, and LSD which are almost equipotent, as judged by the degree of symptoms exhibited in the same dose. The arousal effect of elymoclavine or agroclavine on reserpine-sedation was superior to that of LSD. Animal experiments have shown that penniclavine, elymoclavine, lysergol, LSD and several other ergot alkaloids such as agroclavine, triseclavine, and lysergene have excitory effects on the central nervous system (Note 1: Yui & Takeo, 1957) as well as lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) which also excites the central nervous system in animals (Note 2: Glasser, 1961). There is also an interesting on-line interview with the LSD chemist Bear Owsley where he hits on a derivative of LSD that the ancients may have discovered and prepared for the Eleusis mystery quoted here: -------------------------------- Owsley: Claviceps paspali ergot, same alkaloid profile as morning glory contains many natural, highly psychedelic alkaloids. Iso-ergine is one of them, Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide or LSH is another one, and in fact, is considered nearly identical to LSD in effect. Albert Hoffman told me so himself. They believe that it was this derivative contained in extracts of c.paspali which grows on certain grass that was used in the Eleusian Mysteries. Edited by tregar (01/04/24 08:08 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,051 Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours |
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Nillion, my wife was able to fix the broken laptop by replacing the external power supply cord/box and now it works, it was broke for over a year, so I am now able to retrieve the 2014 study by Paulke and will post soon. I had thought that since I heard a popping noise when the laptop died that it was a group or single capacitor in the power supply that exploded internally, but it turns out it was the external power cord adapter box.
I see your point in that there are 2 conflicting studies both from Forensic Sci, we will get down to the bottom of this. One shows LSH, the other shows no LSH in HBWR. This is the paper that shows the alkaloid content of HBWR is vastly different from the alkaloid content of morning glory: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71. No high levels of stimulating LSH, agroclavine, elymoclavine, chanoclavine, penniclavine found in HBWR seeds, only in morning glory seeds. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest minimal: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine. Just for the record, I am not against the use of HBWR for making LSI, there is a lot of LSA in HBWR that can be converted to LSI, just that HBWR also has high level of ergometrine which causes cramping and vasoconstriction, in fact if you read a several years post by 69ron on his HBWR experiments mixed with peppermint tea (levels of isovaleraldehyde are found in peppermint tea), he experienced profound LSD like effects for quite some time, but the cramping was bothersome from the ergometrine. Just watch the dosage. HBWR has around 17% ergometrine while morning glory seeds only contain around 3% ergometrine.
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Stranger Registered: 10/31/23 Posts: 3 Last seen: 5 days, 2 hours |
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Tregar you are a legend and this substance is fan-fucking-tastic.
It's the best drug there is. I call it Wonder. It makes me feel like a kid again. Cures me of my ills. It has no comedown or edgy amphetamine side effects. It has all of the love of MDMA. And all of the magic of LSD. In my opinion (and I am a doctor) this is the MOST THERAPEUTIC psychedic drug by a long way. Psilocybin has proved to be a fairly effective depression treatment. Well this is lots better. Wanna microdose? Take this is better than whatever you take. So far I've had a few different experiences. Initially I was trying morning glory seeds but having poor extraction efficiency and I was getting vasoconstriction and sedation. So I moved to HBWR. With HBWR and room-temperature extraction with IVA I had extreme euphoria and moderate psychedelia. These experiments (2 of them) coined the term Wonder. Just insane eye-shaking euphoria. Music euphoria times a million. Bad abdominal side effects though. I did another extraction with warmer grape juice, probably reached about 45C in the blender. And IVA. 12 HBWR seeds. This produced some of the strongest psychedelia I've had in my life. ego death looking in the mirror. This was amazing. Visuals were very strong. In these experiences I often had excessive urination from the cardiac glycoside like molecules in the seed shell. It was scary. I also had strange cardiac effects and a toxic feeling. I did, however, have NO vasoconstriction. I re-tried an experiment where I removed the isovaleraldehyde from half of the extraction mixture. I also dehydrated myself before hand because of previous experience with vasoconstriction and excessive-urination. It caused me to go into a very painful transient kidney failure. Thought I might die. So I returned to MG seeds. Have done this once. 300 seeds. Sprouting and braining Tek. Blended with IVA and reacted for 4 hours at room temp. Strained poorly. Was very slow. Need to vacuum filter in future. Or just not bother. Consumed. WONDER. Glorious euphoria and moderate psychedelia. Much weaker than 12 HBWRs. Tregar: I think that with sufficient reaction temperature isovaleraldehyde would also react with ergometrine. So it is possible, with heating to 50C for example, that the ergometrine could be eliminated. However HBWR seems to me to have a much higher toxicity profile overall. The risk of a high ergometrine dose means that women should NOT take HBWR imo. Morning Glory seeds, esepcially when shelled, however, seem much safer. Wonder wonder wonder wonder Flower power is back baby 💠💠💠💠💠💠
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τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής Registered: 12/07/19 Posts: 2,419 Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff |
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Quote: Quote:
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Dharma Bum Registered: 07/01/22 Posts: 270 Loc: Eleusis Last seen: 11 hours, 15 minutes |
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i've put this elsewhere. but man, i used 5 HBWR seeds following Tregar's directions in the fridge with just half a fresh lemon and distilled water. 12hrs in the fridge in a small like 4oz jar wrapped in foil. it i took this in 3 quick shots, ate a total of approx 30mg thc in homemade cannabutter, and made tea out of 4.5g of 1.5 year old cubes. i took the tea about 1.2 hrs after ingesting the lsa/i.
this ended up being one of the best psychedelic experiences i've had. and i've had a couple hundred at least. top ten at i'm saying. cheers -------------------- Be patient & Let it happen
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Stranger Registered: 10/31/23 Posts: 3 Last seen: 5 days, 2 hours |
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Quote: Hydrate or diedrate 😂 Also, avoid HBWR... Edited by Mushroom-G (01/29/24 04:04 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 10/31/23 Posts: 3 Last seen: 5 days, 2 hours |
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Quote: 😂 There's just something about being on Wonder that makes you wanna take more psychedelics Edited by Mushroom-G (01/29/24 04:03 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,051 Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours |
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mushroom-g said:
Quote: Quote: HBWR second try, from Jim I.T.I https://www.shroomery.org/forum subatomicglue said: Quote: seeds only, sprouts don't work in my experience. Within this year the book will be out, working with a lawyer to keep my author identity hidden even with a pen name. Thanks for asking. It's expensive legal work. Check out these last few posts from others here on page 23: https://www.shroomery.org/forum Lemon juice contains levels of isovaleraldehyde just like peppermint oils and herbal peppermint teas. Others have had success adding everything at one time, I prefer to do it in stages, just always remember to extract your seeds using wine only, if you try to extract with just water, you will end up with an emulsion that will never separate in the fridge. I've got this down to where it only takes 3 hours in the fridge for the separation of the seed mass from the wine for zero nausea. The fridge does all the work filtering. I prefer in the last step to stir the zero nausea mg or HBWR liquid several shot wine extract with the drops of isovaleraldehyde for 1 hour (temp does not matter as the boiling point of isovaleraldehyde is very high) then consume. I prolonged releasing the book cause as a chemist I'm able to easily obtain isovaleraldehyde chemical, and even ordered some straight to my home when it was readily available to anyone via a place that sold it on line to anyone (see page 1 for a pic of bottle with where it came from on the label). However, as it stands, all places refuse to sell the chemical to a residential address, and India no longer produces the chemical for anyone on-line via that place mentioned on label of chemical. The place is H*Med** Even *mazon carried it for a while before running out of stock from India. The lack of the chemical posed a problem as I wanted this easily available to all the public. Maybe someday someone will step up and offer in at auction or similar. It's completely legal. In the meantime, people will have to resort to using lemon juice or a combination of lemon juice and/or peppermint oils and herbal teas for the limited amounts of isovaleraldhyde in those materials. LSI trip report made from MG seeds: on my 600 seed or 18g high dose morning glory wine extract prepared with 3 drops isovaleraldehyde and 1 teaspoon apple cider vinegar as catalyst for the aldehyde condensation onto LSA to form LSI, saw 2 hours of dancing colored geometrics, thousands upon thousands they were so intricate for 2 hours which formed completely naked women goddesses at the intersections of the geometrics, mind blowing music enhancement and euphoria, very strong trip for 6 hours with 8 hour duration. One of the most prominent visual features is the seeing of colored energy fields or auras surrounding all objects just as itbebasidia reported, I see this every time the whole trip. Very powerful shimmering and glowing of everything as well, as if there is an intense divine light inside, very beautiful. Mentally: Deep healing head space. LSI still remains at the top of my list for one of my all time favorite psychedelics next to mescaline, it's earthy and natural compared to man-made LSD and has none of the metallic feel or man-made feeling of LSD, most likely because it also targets the 3 adrenal receptors that mescaline, dmt and shrooms also target compared to LSD which only targets a2a receptor in comparison. I use LSI at least once a month and tripped on it over 2 years time already, absolutely gorgeous experience...I love to combine it with bridgesii tea. The combo of the two is my favorite, I've drank cactus tea at least 150 times over a couple decades. --> go to the top of this page 23 and you will also find at least 10 more reports of people having excellent trips when using lemon juice for their HBWR or MG extraction...and those using wine combo with lemon juice extraction. The order of the extraction does not seem to be important: mix all at once or do in stages, I prefer to extract with wine first, then add the isovaleraldehyde or lemon juice or peppermint mixes and spin around 1 hour at high speed with a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar for the condensation catalyst to form the LSI and LSH. Edited by tregar (02/14/24 04:15 PM)
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