|
 Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,652
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 3 minutes, 18 seconds
|
 Possible to ionize fire? 
#2860629 - 07/06/04 02:44 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Can you ionize fire and repell or attract it magnetically?
--------------------
This space for rent
|
 Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 4 days, 19 hours
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2860794 - 07/06/04 05:55 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
|
 newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Anno]
#2860819 - 07/06/04 06:23 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Hmm that's interesting so in the shuttle they rarely have to worry about a fire since the hot gasses don't rise so the flame gets no more oxygen to feed it.
http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/phys/heat/p00018d.html
Anyone have a picture of a flame in space?
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: newuser1492]
#2860858 - 07/06/04 06:51 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
> so in the shuttle they rarely have to worry about a fire since the hot gasses don't rise so the flame gets no more oxygen to feed it.
They have fans to create airflow... the risk of fire in space is very real. They had a fire on Mir and almost lost both the station and crew. But, fire without gravity is very odd... smoke doesn't form layers, etc...
--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.
|
trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada 
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2861355 - 07/06/04 12:09 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
"Fire" is not an object you can do something "to"...fire is a process resulting in the release of energy. When you see fire, you are seeing the energy released (in the form of light) as particles of fuel burn.
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
|
Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,652
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 3 minutes, 18 seconds
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: trendal]
#2861515 - 07/06/04 01:27 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
So it is therefore impossible to blow out a candle? 
So can you ionize the combusting gasses any easier than non combusting gasses?
--------------------
This space for rent
|
trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2861568 - 07/06/04 01:59 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Blowing out a candle cools down the fuel to the point where it no longer has the energy to continue combustion 
Ionization is usually done by heating a gas until the electrons dissociate from the nucleus in the atoms making up the gas...so yes I suppose the combusting gases would be "closer" to ionization than a cooler gas.
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
|
phynai
newbie
Registered: 10/06/03
Posts: 26
Loc: California
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2863775 - 07/07/04 02:42 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Baby_Hitler said:
Can you ionize fire and repell or attract it magnetically?
Electron transfer during the stoichiometric combustion, in your chemical equation will produce electro-magnetic radiation: Yes.
"Electrons behave in some respects as if they were tiny charged spheres spinning around an axis. This spin gives rise to a tiny magnetic field and to a fourth quantum number, m, which can have a value of either +1/2 or -1/2." p.183 "Chemistry" McMurry&Fay
"Experimental evidence for the electron structure of O2 rest on the observation that substances with unpaired electrons are attracted by magnetic fields and are thus said to be paramagnetic" p.283
Quote:
So it is therefore impossible to blow out a candle?
It is possible to use chemical/physical means to take out a candle, but it can be only taken to a certain extent. Say, the luminous intensity of the sun. Lets keep it burning.
Quote:
So can you ionize the combusting gasses any easier than non combusting gasses?
The gas doesn?t care much, it's just gas.
|
Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,652
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 3 minutes, 18 seconds
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Anno]
#2863785 - 07/07/04 02:52 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
So what happens if you put fire in the microwave?
--------------------
This space for rent
|
trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2864719 - 07/07/04 11:28 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Probably not too much...
Microwaves are tuned to one of the resonant frequencies of water, which is how they heat food - by resonating the water molecules, causing heat.
Plus, microwaves are non-ionizing radiation...otherwise we wouldn't be able to use then in a kitchen
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: trendal]
#2864924 - 07/07/04 12:35 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
> otherwise we wouldn't be able to use then in a kitchen
Well, we could, but they would weigh a lot more with all that lead shielding in there.  (... but Mom, I'm hungry... It's almost ready, just another 27 half-lives to go before it is mostly safe to eat...)
--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.
|
trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Seuss]
#2864977 - 07/07/04 12:54 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
|
d33p
Welcome to Violence
Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2865678 - 07/07/04 04:01 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You can produce a stable plasmoid in your microwave. I think this comes as close to what you are talking about Bh.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/oa_plsm2.htm
--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.
bang bang
|
Effed
Registered: 05/15/02
Posts: 7,370
Loc: Daylight Slavings
|
 Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: d33p]
#2870548 - 07/08/04 09:30 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I think I'll have a Plasmoid for breakfast tomorrow, thanks guys....
|
angryjslice
now with 20%more anger
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 916
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Effed]
#2872201 - 07/09/04 08:57 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
yeh, you ignite a plasmoid if you put fire in your microwave
careful if you do that in your microwave though...it produceous alot of noxious gases, you really gotta air your place out and not breathe any of that shit in.
play safe w/ plasma
~JSlice~
--------------------
|
the man
still masked
Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 6,697
Loc: C A N A D A
Last seen: 4 hours, 11 minutes
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: trendal]
#2883005 - 07/12/04 05:03 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
trendal said:
Blowing out a candle cools down the fuel to the point where it no longer has the energy to continue combustion
i dont think thats how it works, although plays a role of course. it takes teh O2 out of the triangle. how i rationalize this is , i have taken pure O2 and tried to blow out a flame with it. does not work very well just makes it burn harder even though it was cool and lots was going onto the flame. and that amount of wind on a flame easly woud put out a candle.
yea and as someone said i think fire that we see is just glowing hot Carbon molecules. so if you could ionize carbon at this unstable state then yea.
--------------------
And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: the man]
#2885157 - 07/13/04 07:43 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
> i have taken pure O2 and tried to blow out a flame with it.
You should have used an inert gas for you test, such as nitrogen. You can actually start a fire using pure oxygen with no flame, given the appropriate fuel source. By using pure oxygen, you reduced the energy needed to continue combustion (less work over time to find a free oxygen molecule to bond with), therefore it was harder to blow out the flame.
> yea and as someone said i think fire that we see is just glowing hot Carbon molecules
It is actually a complex mix of lots of things... from changes in gas density to the release of photons. Carbon is not required for fire. Actually, oxygen isn't required either... light a candle and lower it into a beaker full of pure chlorine gas... the candle will continue to burn, consuming the chlorine.
--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.
|
gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 6 months, 8 days
|
Re: Possible to ionize fire? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2886257 - 07/13/04 01:16 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
well, that brought to mind an old article (still in my stacks in the attic, maybe?) about using a propane torch as a tweeter...
www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99036.htm
--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Red Vein Kratom 
Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale 
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 3 all )
dtugg
ShroomMan420
Arden
DrewBaccA
relativexistance
Diploid
Locus
leftandright