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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: mycosis]
#28637173 - 01/27/24 05:04 PM (4 hours, 16 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
mycosis said: Whatever your view on the war is it’s hard to deny Prigozhin was extremely charismatic and highly entertaining.

Colonel Kurtz
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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kitten6
hiker


Registered: 05/13/19
Posts: 96
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Last seen: 1 hour, 35 minutes
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respect
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: kitten6]
#28637178 - 01/27/24 05:05 PM (4 hours, 15 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
kitten6 said: propoganda comes from the media narrative which you live under, if putin progoganda was real, and say that i believed in it, then i would be in russia and under the russian republican media narrative. Actually, I am living in the Eu where the mass media portrays putin as the aggressor of a war under 1000km from Moscow and as a WW2 style fascist autocratic power with imperial intentions for taking over europe.
Just look at what the Guardian, the times, the daily mail, the observer, BBC and ITV and sky have to say about it.
If i am eating somebodies propoganda whos would it be, the western media conglomorate which i cant look in any direction without coming across, or Putins state media which is blocked most hours of the day and inaccessible on western social media platforms.
I don't advocate putin, I don't know about his domestic policy and neither have I lived in Russia where he is in power, but that still doesnt mean I cant be critical of the west for playing a hand in this wars instigation (if you want me to elaborate then please do ask away for any details)
Oh no, there's tenor and RT for access to Russian state media views
What do you think of a strong adherence to RT articles for understanding situational context? Vs cross referencing a variety of non-state media sources? With a grain of salt for satiety.
The west is no innocent fly, international law be damned and illegal offensive invasion be had, there is no defense of western imperial missions from me.
What do you view the 'hand' the west played in this scenario? You said instigation, but does that mean your view aligns more with the west having caused or started, or even compelled Putin to make the decision to invade?
Or are you thinking more along the lines of the military support they've provided after the fact of the invasion that inevitably appears to have prolonged the conflict?
Some people reference the right to sovereignty that Ukraine has. Some reference the feeling of national security threats that locality to NATO can present for Russia. Some point to the land value in territorial acquisition, and some mention that taking Ukranian territory is akin to Putin putting NATO on the Russian border himself. And some posit an importance in recognising or accepting as true that Ukraine conceded to not joining NATO before the invasion began, and doubled down after it already had.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

Registered: 07/28/10
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: kitten6] 2
#28637180 - 01/27/24 05:05 PM (4 hours, 15 minutes ago) |
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Because you have some heretic cross as an avatar so likely anything you say about russia not being the sole cause of this is likely going to be heavily steeped in bullshit that folks here are tired of.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής



Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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That is grotesque.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
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kitten6
hiker


Registered: 05/13/19
Posts: 96
Loc: UK 0161
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
#28637231 - 01/27/24 05:52 PM (3 hours, 28 minutes ago) |
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Apart from RT and tenor you could cross reference a variety of non-state media sources, unfortunately all those 'non-state' media sources are owned by the same conglomerates who control the majority of Washington lobbyists.
At the same time you can also look at small scale alternative independent media such as the morning star, the lobster, private eye and come to the conclusion that all western media serves the interest of the war campaign in ukraine,
then you could learn that the amount of media conglomerate shares owned by American conglomerates who's shares are owned by American, Israeli and English arms manufacturers, (the same lobbyers in Washington) hold majorities in almost every European outlet.
(arms are still the most profitable commodity known to mankind - what does that say about how the world is run)
and Since when could media be there to serve the private interests of its shareholders?
Your point on the hand played by the west in compelling putin to start an invasion is accurate.
So much so that the US has turned Europe into a buyer of weapons financing a stockpile of weapons with a value of almost one trillion dollars that has been used for incremental war escalations against russia circa feb 2022. (and earlier investments going on long before as conflict in eastern ukraine has been going on for years)
At the same time this 'hand' played by the US started with a 5 billion dollar media campaign which effectively caused the coup de tat 2014 euromaidan revolution in ukraine. the Cato institute describes it as US micro-management of the ukrainian political turbulance which led to the 2014 revolution.
In terms of sovereignty for Ukraine, I think that ukraine has not been able to make a single sovereign decision without a Us backed ukrainian congress as early as the orange revolution.
If you ask me what are my thoughts on the matter I would say, let all your deepest fears on western imperial missions come true for they are.
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chopstick
nobody



Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,076
Loc: Chin's Wok
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
#28637233 - 01/27/24 05:53 PM (3 hours, 26 minutes ago) |
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Ukraine and sovereignty should never be used in the same sentence, lol.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: kitten6] 1
#28637235 - 01/27/24 05:56 PM (3 hours, 24 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Nobody wants you to elaborate
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,529
Loc: United States
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: kitten6]
#28637239 - 01/27/24 05:58 PM (3 hours, 22 minutes ago) |
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I've dealt with lot of Russian gangsters in my time and most them are pretty stand up guys but thier biggest strength is also their greatest weakness and that is the mortal sin of pride. You have to understand that your dealing with complete retards for whatever reason.
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



Registered: 09/30/11
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Cheif with the sniper shot
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  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (01/27/24 05:59 PM)
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kitten6
hiker


Registered: 05/13/19
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ok I admit the cross was misleading its because my contributions to this forum was mostly in the philosophy section in 2019 and i thought this picture was cool even though i have no affiliage to the orthodox church.
even so, i removed this profile picture as i realised even before you posted that it could be misleading posting in a political forum with this profile photo where as it seems most people have a very negative reactionary view against anything from the eastern hemisphere.
also your newsweek post is exactly the corporate owned propoganda that i would warn you against in any case, this is just my advice you dont need to take it as an attack on your awareness of worldwide events.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

Registered: 07/28/10
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These people like alot of europe simply haven't healed for the terror of wwii and its mad fucked up and sad. Throw in the curruption and bullshitism of communism that still needed to be worked out and these folks never had a chance. It's sad it really is. Hopefully these people will wake the fuck up in the face of it all but again there's not a good track record in this respect. My whole thing is that folks the world over have forgotten the lessons of the past and think war os cool now. Dumbasses. Fuck you.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: kitten6]
#28637254 - 01/27/24 06:11 PM (3 hours, 9 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
kitten6 said: ok I admit the cross was misleading its because my contributions to this forum was mostly in the philosophy section in 2019 and i thought this picture was cool even though i have no affiliage to the orthodox church.
even so, i removed this profile picture as i realised even before you posted that it could be misleading posting in a political forum with this profile photo where as it seems most people have a very negative reactionary view against anything from the eastern hemisphere.
also your newsweek post is exactly the corporate owned propoganda that i would warn you against in any case, this is just my advice you dont need to take it as an attack on your awareness of worldwide events.
I dont care I honestly respect and love the othrthidox church but wish they would reform as much as I hope the catholic church reforms. I didn't wish to disparage any faith but only hope u would realize how heavy the bullshit is. We are all brothers and sisters
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,709
Last seen: 20 minutes, 25 seconds
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Fuck the Orthodox church. My mom raised me in that cult and I'm so glad I have the brain capacity to have gotten out of it.
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  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,529
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
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There's alot of good that is done through them.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: kitten6]
#28637261 - 01/27/24 06:17 PM (3 hours, 3 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
kitten6 said: Apart from RT and tenor you could cross reference a variety of non-state media sources, unfortunately all those 'non-state' media sources are owned by the same conglomerates who control the majority of Washington lobbyists.
At the same time you can also look at small scale alternative independent media such as the morning star, the lobster, private eye and come to the conclusion that all western media serves the interest of the war campaign in ukraine,
then you could learn that the amount of media conglomerate shares owned by American conglomerates who's shares are owned by American, Israeli and English arms manufacturers, (the same lobbyers in Washington) hold majorities in almost every European outlet.
(arms are still the most profitable commodity known to mankind - what does that say about how the world is run)
and Since when could media be there to serve the private interests of its shareholders?
Your point on the hand played by the west in compelling putin to start an invasion is accurate.
So much so that the US has turned Europe into a buyer of weapons financing a stockpile of weapons with a value of almost one trillion dollars that has been used for incremental war escalations against russia circa feb 2022. (and earlier investments going on long before as conflict in eastern ukraine has been going on for years)
At the same time this 'hand' played by the US started with a 5 billion dollar media campaign which effectively caused the coup de tat 2014 euromaidan revolution in ukraine. the Cato institute describes it as US micro-management of the ukrainian political turbulance which led to the 2014 revolution.
In terms of sovereignty for Ukraine, I think that ukraine has not been able to make a single sovereign decision without a Us backed ukrainian congress as early as the orange revolution.
If you ask me what are my thoughts on the matter I would say, let all your deepest fears on western imperial missions come true for they are.
Some people here tend to rely on RT as a source rather than cross referencing anything else, and they often state that legacy media, or main stream media, is not an apt source. While there are biases present in a plethora of non-state media sources, I think the standard should at least be non-state media sources, and to work on cross referencing sources from there.
I think it's true that a great deal of msm sources show favourability to war time escapades, as per the doctrine of the military industrial complex lobbyists that fund such media organisations. That said, without a state-funding of these media sources, there is still some room for non-biased reviews to take place, at least relative to the inherent bias of a state-funded source. And I think this recognition is important moving forward.
I believe state-media will always serve the private interest of their state, but that other non-state affiliated media sources don't have the inherent bias of state-media. Potential, but not inherent.
This is a fair point,
Quote:
then you could learn that the amount of media conglomerate shares owned by American conglomerates who's shares are owned by American, Israeli and English arms manufacturers, (the same lobbyers in Washington) hold majorities in almost every European outlet.
But I think it just means that if someone citing a non-state media source, and you're aware of the media organisation that reported the context having a conflict of interest in the form of recieving donations from certain groups like those with military affiliations, that you can point at that specific affiliation as a counterpoint to the merit of the specific article and its related context. Essentially, I think that non-state media sources are the bare minimum standard, and that the affiliations of these sources should be scrutinised where applicable.
I think you'd have to specificy what you're referring to when you say, "weapons with a value of almost one trillion dollars that has been used for incremental war escalations against russia circa feb 2022", for me to be able to properly address the comment.
You say, 'compelling' Putin to invade, but you aren't absolving Putin of personal responsibility in the decisions he made to invade are you?
Now this I think you're going to have to provide citations for, because from 1991 to 2014 there is specific context to the financial aid provided to Ukraine during the time.
Quote:
At the same time this 'hand' played by the US started with a 5 billion dollar media campaign which effectively caused the coup de tat 2014 euromaidan revolution in ukraine. the Cato institute describes it as US micro-management of the ukrainian political turbulance which led to the 2014 revolution.
This;
Quote:
In terms of sovereignty for Ukraine, I think that ukraine has not been able to make a single sovereign decision without a Us backed ukrainian congress as early as the orange revolution.
Isn't really an answer to this;
Quote:
Some people reference the right to sovereignty that Ukraine has.
Do you think Ukraine has a right to their sovereignty?
I tend to try to recognise both Western and Eastern centric imperialism without negating the responsibilities of either for their actions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,709
Last seen: 20 minutes, 25 seconds
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The Satanic Temple does a lot of good work, too. As do many non-religious organizations.
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  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: kitten6]
#28637269 - 01/27/24 06:22 PM (2 hours, 58 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: Ukraine and sovereignty should never be used in the same sentence, lol.
Does this comment resonate with you?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,529
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
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I think the satanic temple is misunderstood and I think most of its followers are misguided. I do not fear it
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